Talk:Polo shirt

buttons

Some polo shirts have 3 buttons or even 2 in Marks and Spencers--Snow storm in Eastern Asia (talk) 13:24, 4 June 2010 (UTC).

I've seen this to.--Reatostly (talk) 09:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

3.Trish pt7 (talk) (talk) 18:46, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Number of Buttons

I have yet to see a Polo Shirt with 2 buttons, most of the ones I have ever seen have 3 or 4 buttons-User:GeorgeFormby1 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 09:05, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm wearing one now :) 68.226.137.18 04:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm also wearing a two button Polo Shirt at the moment. However, I do think this shirt is one of the most recent ones I bought. Jon (talk) 22:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Mine has 5, chavs!--Sarurahn (talk) 19:11, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Mine has 3.Trish pt7 (talk) (talk) 19:10, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Buttoned to the Top

Who decided that polo shirts are to be buttoned to the top? Almost no one does.

Polo or Tennis?

I think this page should be titled "Polo Shirt". Not only do I believe that to be the more common name (althought I don't know for sure - no polls have been done), it is also the name that most refers to the type of shirt and least to the type of sport. People might wear a tennis shirt for tennis, a golf shirt for golf, but few people, unless they own a horse and are members of the British Royal family, would wear a polo shirt for polo, or associate the style of shirt particularly with polo. Also, Carson Kressley, in Off the Cuff, states that a golf shirt is different from a polo shirt (although only slightly - and I am aware that a statement by Carson Kressley is not the be-all and end-all judgement on the matter.) - Matthew238 07:37, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree; the generic term (at least in the US) is "Polo Shirt" Joncnunn 21:11, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

• Depends who you are and where you are. Lots of people call it a "tennis shirt" (both in the US and elsewhere), which is its original designation and purpose. There's a redirect anyway, so if someone puts in "polo shirt" they'll find what they're looking for. I say leave it be. 65.28.2.172 22:50, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I challenge the notion that Tennis was the original purpose of the shirt. In unrelated fashion research I have come across references to "polo shirts," some with illustrations and photos that leave no doubt that we are talking about the same garment, from the 1910s and 1920s, before Rene Lacoste changes the typical tennis uniform. I don't know a lot about this topic, but it is pretty clear that the style at least (can't sat the fabric) existed and was called "polo" prior to 1933. TheCormac (talk) 03:42, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

• In California, everyone calls them "polo shirts" in my experience. I've just checked two dictionaries of American English (American Heritage 4th ed. and WordNet) and FWIW both have an entry for "polo shirt" but no entry for "tennis shirt". I'd call this evidence that "polo shirt" is the vernacular form, at least in the USA. hajhouse 20:55, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
• I have heard people use both terms interchangeably. Once again, though, there's a redirect as it is, and the article makes the whole story very clear. Let it be. 65.28.2.172 21:04, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

ive never heard of tennis shirts only polo shirts. Dappled Sage 23:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Polo shirt is by far a more widely used term - a simple Google search of "polo shirt" vs "tennis shirt" shows 1.5 million matches vs just 120 000. The article really should be renamed. Uuuppp 15:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I would support a move to polo shirt too. Anyone feel like proposing an RM? Cheers, DWaterson 01:54, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

In the UK it is called a polo shirt too - one of the rare instances where there's a debate over the name and there are people on both sides of the Atlantic arguing for the same name. Blankfrackis (talk) 23:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

"Polo" may have supplanted "tennis" in recent years but it makes more sense to use the original since "polo shirt" is really just a genericized trademark. If we've got a non-commercial, widely recognized term, like "tennis shirt," I say that should be the one we use. Also, the introduction says it was formerly known as a tennis shirt. The term's still very much in use, and the author of that statement seems to imply there's some recognized authority that decides what to call things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.226.18.227 (talk) 20:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

It's 'Polo' or airtex in the UK.--Snow storm in Eastern Asia (talk) 13:26, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Source needed for style

A source is definately needed for this; particularly since the temperature would be a natural factor in how many (if any) too button while outside when this isn't worn as a uniform. Jon 20:31, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

separate article for polo shirt needed

who calls it a tennis shirt ??

• Lots of people do. Lacoste does. I do. Most of my friends do. It's the original name. Leave this be. 65.28.9.8 06:13, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

they are two different things

• I'm sorry but I find that to be preposterous. The two terms are simply interchangable names for the same piece of clothing. I do agree however, with the above points to rename this article "Polo Shirt." In my experience this is the more common name and is used far more in modern Western vernacular. -Poj21
  • I disagree. The shirts were originally designed by renowned tennis player Rene Lacoste for tennis. Only years later after Ralph Lipshitz put a horse and polo player on his tennis shirts did people start calling them "polo shirts." To this day, Lacoste still calls them tennis shirts. Considering that there's a redirect, this page is appropriately named. 65.28.2.218 02:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
    • who is ralph lipshitz? i changed it to a link yet nothing.... Dappled Sage 23:16, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
      • You might know him as Ralph Lauren. 69.125.62.245 07:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

This is not accurate. Polo shirts were called polo shirts long before Ralph Lauren. Polo shirts are seen and described as such in numerous fashion advertisements in magazines and newspapers for decades before the first one marketed by Ralph Lauren's Polo brand in 1972. (Indeed they are seen in advertisements before Rene Lacoste began marketing his in 1933, contrary to this article's assertions.) Lauren's Polo brand started in 1967 making ties; its now famous logo is actually a symbol of the island of Brioni which had been reproduced on a scarf that Lauren had bought sometime after his company was named and launched. Lauren first used it commercially on the sleeves of shirts in a woman's wear line before he later used it (in a clever and/or lucky piece of marketing) on the chest of polo shirts. TheCormac (talk) 03:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

• I went to Tysons Corner Mall in the DC Metro area today to test this theory and went to five stores that sell this kind of shirt ( I was shopping for them anyway). When asking if they had tennis shirts, not one of the sales people knew what I was talking about. Upon pointing to one on the rack and saying "Oh, I see them there", the general response was "oh, you mean polos". Case closed. I have never in 36 years heard anyone call this a "tennis shirt". Not while originally wearing them in the 80's, nor anytime since. I am not a 'tennis person' though. I suspect this is a effort by tennis players and fans to try and claim some sort of ownership of this currently popular style and usurp the common name to suit their own bias. Ask anyone who is NOT a tennis person what kind of shirt this is (probably 95% of the world) and you will be told "polo shirt".

• • I tried it out at J. Press, Paul Stuart, and Brooks in NYC, and all three responded to "tennis shirt" just fine. Besides, Wikipedia articles never should be based on personal research. Whatever your or my personal research may or may not have uncovered is wholly invalid for Wikipedia purposes. Typing in "polo shirt" links immediately to this article. As such, there is no difficulty linking to or finding this article by using the term "polo shirt." The article should remain as it is. 65.66.153.99 18:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

• • • Really? Because I visited the websites for J. Press and found nothing of this type. I searched Paul Stuart for "tennis shirt" and got zero hits. Then I searched for "polo" and found an extensive collection. Then I went to Brooks Brothers and searched for "Tennis Shirt" and got a "Tennis Collar Dress Shirt" collection which is a completely different style of shirt. "Polo" search on Brooks site resulted in...you guessed it, a bunch of Polos. So, pardon me if I doubt your story, but it seems inconsistent with their corporate catalogs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.151.209 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 24 August 2007

Contradiction?

In the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of the "Application to polo and other sports" section, it first mentions that the term "polo shirt" became universal in the 1950's, and then says that in 1967 people began calling Lacoste's tennis shirts "polo shirts". Is the article contradicting itself here?

I'm as confused as you are, comrade!Wipsenade (talk) 17:59, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

In what way is a collar that can be turned up useful for athletics?

In the 2nd to last paragraph, "The easily-upturnable collar remains another athletic aid." this makes no sense to me. Revan111 20:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Read the article upturned collar. Rene Lacoste's original purpose for the upturnable-collar on the tennis shirt was to block the sun from one's neck. Today, one sees this most in golf. 65.28.9.8 16:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

This article is wrong about History, Dates, and the Proper name of the polo shirt

From newspaper archives we researched "new line polos" with pictures showing the style known today as "polos" were first advertised in August 1887.

1887 – August, ads appear in The News, Fredrick Maryland. “Just the thing for hot weather, new line polos”.

1893 – From the Magazine, Economy & Business September 1, 1986 - the new version of the polo made it’s debut in 1893 when worn by players from the Hurlingham Polo Club near Buenos Aires. Could this be the first bona fide sports shirt?

1920 – Lewis Lacey opens a sports store in Buenos Aires selling the new style polo shirts with the logo of a polo player astride a pony. Most likely the first time a logo has been used commercially. This information was taken from Time Magazine September 1986. (Ralph Lauren introduces a polo shirt in 1972 with depicts a polo player but from a different angle).

The editor who wrote the article on the tennis shirt for Wikipedia needs to do more research when he insists that the generic name for the polo shirt is tennis shirt . The article has further errors when it implies that Lacoste is responsible for the modern day polo shirt. Lacoste first marketed his shirt in France in 1933 and the US in 1951. The notable difference between the Lacoste shirt and the polo shirt was the longer tail of the Lacoste. To claim or imply that Lacoste was somehow the inventor of the polo shirt is insane.

For more info and records/photos that prove how wrong the "tennis shirt" nonsense is, please see the following page:

http://www.love-u-tshirt.com/polo-shirt.html

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.94.145 (talk • contribs) 12:22, 18 August 2007

Thank you - excellent input - this is very convincing. I see little opposition. It is time to move the page and make some updates! --NealMcB 16:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I edited the page to call it a Polo shirt and redo the history a bit - but would welcome work by others also - I didn't get all the wording changes etc. --NealMcB 17:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense. The page you linked to simply confused what was called a "polo shirt" in the 1890s-1960s (what we today would call a button-down dress shirt) and implied that it meant the Lacoste-style tennis shirt. Moreover, a website set up specifically to counter a wikipedia article is not a valid source; only its cited sources are. Instead, check out the actual histories from Lacoste, Ralph Lauren, and Brooks Brothers:

"1896 - THE BUTTON-DOWN POLO SHIRT - John Brooks, grandson of the founder, made fashion history by introducing the button-down polo collar shirt. His design inspiration came after attending an English polo match where he observed the players' shirts secured with buttons to keep them from flapping in the wind. The shirt became an instant success and soon one of the best-selling Brooks Brothers items." - Official Brooks Brothers history website

"In 1933, René LACOSTE and André GILLIER, the owner and President of the largest French knitwear manufacturing firm of that time, set up a company to manufacture the logo-embroidered shirt. The champion had designed this for his own use on the tennis court, as well as a number of other shirts for tennis, golf and sailing - as can be seen in the first catalogue, produced in 1933." - Official Lacoste website

"1967 - Already interested in promoting a lifestyle with his ties, Ralph Lauren names his line after a sport that embodies a world of discreet elegance and classic style: Polo." - Official Ralph Lauren history website: "1967"

"1972 - Polo’s original mesh shirt with the polo player logo is introduced in 24 colors. No other sport shirt offers the same combination of quality and variety. The shirt instantly becomes an American classic." - Official Ralph Lauren history website: "1972"

Also check out the Brooks Brothers history coffee-table book, which has more information about the history and progression of the "original" Polo shirt. The book was edited by George Plimpton and meticulously produced to mark the 200th anniversary of the company. Lacoste invented the shirt, he originally called it a tennis shirt, what people called "polo shirts" previously were what we would call button-down dress shirts, and Ralph Lauren popularized the name. It's quite simple, as these real sources show. 65.66.153.99 18:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, I can't speak to this other website you speak of, but I find it absurd and hysterical that you are suggesting that corporate promotional material - which is what "official websites" of commercial enterprises are - is a legitimate source for a Wiki article. Everything you say may be true for all I know (well, except that I have seen ads for polo shirts - with illustrations that show we are not talking about the button-down dress shirt - that pre-date the 1930s) but you need to back it up with a reference that is not a brand promotional website or self-published brand book. TheCormac (talk) 03:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

For the record, my quick rewrite attempt was at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tennis_shirt&oldid=152953878 . I claim no expertise on the history, but ads for short-sleeved polos from the 1800's seem relevent there, even if they were different in other ways from what we now call a polo shirt. But I have a sense that people are talking past each other here. Our goal should be to reach consensus, and to not delete opposing views. Attacking a well-documented source of references because it disagrees with "wikipedia" is hardly cause for elimination. But I would also prefer some sources with page numbers, etc. that are easy to verify and put in context. I put a link to the detailed history given above back in the article - please don't delete it unless even better references covering the same material is provided. --NealMcB 21:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

If anything attacked well-documented sources, it was the page to which you referred for your so-called "history" of the tennis shirt, which only attempted to attack the style's accepted history. The history of the tennis shirt has been documented extensively by the sources now referenced in the article. A revisionist website designed specifically to counter a sourced wikipedia article which displays a consensus-accepted history is not a valid source for Wikipedia purposes. Rather, the sources to which this article's references are made are valid sources. As your website notes, hundreds of websites recount the accepted history of the tennis shirt (invention by Rene Lacoste, label as "tennis shirt," popularizing of the term "polo shirt" by Ralph Lauren, &c.). Your website seeks to counter this consensus by using original research (prohibited by Wikipedia), accepting a failed defense to a lawsuit in the 1980s, taking undocumented claims as true, and attacking accepted history. Your site is not a valid Wikipedia sources, and it has no place in this article. 65.28.9.8 23:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I certainly agree with you regarding original research. This Neal person should go get published and peer-reviewed, or cite the published sources more completely to include them here. But to that point, the "sources now referenced in the article" are really pretty thin. Website repeating each other (and many, many of them just repeating what is in wikipedia) and folk-tales is not really research. Can't you (or someone, but you are the one seeming so belligerent on this point) find some peer-reviewed honest to god academic history work on this topic? TheCormac (talk) 04:05, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

The UK player and 1920's Labour Party peer Fred Perry sold his first shirt in Paris, after beating a French player, during 1932. --Snow storm in Eastern Asia (talk) 13:32, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

Based on the many discussions above, and the newspaper ad evidence, and the fact that most links to this page already use the term Polo shirt, I tried to move it to Polo shirt. But that failed because there is an existing Talk:Polo_shirt page, so something was done wrong in the past. So I asked the admins to do it at Wikipedia:Requested_moves --NealMcB 17:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Keep. If one types in "polo shirt," it redirects to this article, where all relevant information is displayed, including information about the different names for this type of shirt. Moreover, the website on which your proposed move relies was set up specifically to counter not only this page, but also the entire accepted history of the tennis shirt, only to make an ultra-minority view into a mainstream one. Your "polo shirt history" page is not a valid source for Wikipedia purposes, and certainly does not do away with the accepted history of the tennis shirt, as mentioned on countless websites, including the official histories of Brooks Brothers, Polo Ralph Lauren, and Chemise Lacoste. Your page relies solely on information from a lawsuit's failed defense in the 1980s, a misconstrual of what the term "polo shirt" meant between the 1890s and 1960s, and a disdain for the accepted history. By all means include a "cricitism" or "minority view" section in this article, but moving it to "polo shirt" simply to placate your desire to overturn the accepted history of the tennis shirt is not necessary.65.66.153.99 21:49, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

This is a vote on the name of the page, not the history. Wikipedia:Naming_conventions says Generally, article naming should prefer what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature. The fact is that hardly anyone uses the term "tennis shirt" now, and most people use Polo shirt. And as I noted that also is reflected in how most people link to the page already. So thanks 65.66.153.99 for your input, and I encourage whoever wants to to debate the history, but the name of the article is a different thing. --NealMcB 16:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Typing in "polo shirt" redirects to this article. There is no problem with linking to or finding this article. I don't know about the "majority of English speakers," but Rene Lacoste originally called this style of shirt - which he invented - a "tennis shirt," and marketed it as such. I have always heard this type of shirt referred to as a "tennis shirt," except in very recent years. That Ralph Lauren's marketing in the early 1970s made people identify the shirt with the sport of polo so as to enhance his company's and clothing's allure, is not reason enough to change it. As such, because "polo shirt" is mere marketing for Ralph Lauren, and there currently is no difficulty linking to or finding this article, the name should not be changed. This article is not about the shirt manufactured by Ralph Lauren, but rather the basic style of shirt which Rene Lacoste designed and marketed in the 1920s and 1930s, which is, and always has been, a tennis shirt. Leave it be. 65.66.153.99 18:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Support. Polo shirt is the most common name. I have never seen it advertised or sold as a tennis shirt. The fact that a redirect exists is not a reason to not make the move. Vegaswikian 06:45, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. If the historical name for the shirt was tennis shirt, this can be mentioned in the intro line. Otherwise, go with the most common contemporary form. — AjaxSmack 19:58, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. by Brian Vegaswikian 04:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

External links to sales sites

The External links to the home pages for lacoste, brooksbrothers and polo/lauren don't directly provide any information relevant to this page - this isn't a page to promote sales of shirts or particular brands. Note Wikipedia:External_links#Links normally to be avoided 4. Links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services.

Note, in the spirit of Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest#Declaring_an_interest, that I have no personal interest in the history or any of the companies involved - I'm just a Wikipedia user and editor trying to contribute to a useful and non-POV page. I encourage other participants in this discussion to disclose any relevant interests. --NealMcB 18:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I, too, have no personal interest in the history or any of the companies involved. I am simply a lay Wikipedia user and editor with an amateur fascination with the history and purposes of style and clothing, among other things. As for the links, the three websites contain a plethora of information about the history and style of the tennis shirt, as detailed and referenced throughout the article. For that reason, and that reason alone, they should remain. 65.66.153.99 18:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Prior to 8/24/07 I the web master of love-u-tshirt.com (cited above) was unaware that the site had been cited in this arena. From that you may draw the correct conclusion that none of the above comments have been entered by anyone associated with love-u-tshirt.com and that the contributor who cited reference to my site did so independently.

Love-u-tshirt.com is not a web site specifically set up to counter a wikipedia article as alluded to above, but a site about t-shirts whereby the history of the polo shirt gets a mention (3 pages) because of it’s close relationship to the t-shirt in terms of style and use. Like all the articles in the love-u-tshirt.com site they were thoroughly researched before publishing. The only part of the site that disputes any articles in wikipedia is the pages on the polo shirt.

If you read the list of historic events at love-u-tshirt it is not difficult to reason that the so-called “actual histories” from the Lacoste web site are in-fact inaccurate. To label self-congratulatory articles written by large business as “actual history” is I believe, commercially naive.

Wikipedia has sourced all its information on the polo shirt and tennis shirt from the web sites of the polo shirt manufacture themselves or sites that it would appear, got their information from the same sources. Hundreds of web sites have copied almost word for word the history of the polo shirt from sites like Lacoste and Lauren etc. But this does not give substance to their correctness and hardly what I call sourced information, it’s called copy. The dates and events referred to in the Love-u-tshirt polo shirt page(s) is sourced from either advertisements or articles in old newspaper archives and should be considered more independent.

One very important point that seems to be ignored is the fact that Lacoste did not market his shirt into the US until 1951. This was also confirmed by searching thousands of US Newspapers prior to 1952, which did not turn up one advertisement for Lacoste shirts prior to that year.

And although Lacoste advertised his shirt as a Golf shirt in the US between 1952 and 1970, disputing Lacoste as the inventor or the tennis shirt is not my intention.(The following is an example of one advertisement that appeared in the Charleston Gazette dated June 4 1970. The ad was for GOLF shirts by Lacoste from Izod and read in part “Our status GOLF SHIRT, designed by Rene Lacoste is equally at home on the TENNIS courts or patio). Today Lacoste refers to tennis shirts on one page and polo shirts on another page of his web site, perhaps still undecided.

What is in dispute is the fact that the polo shirt was well entrenched prior to Lacoste’s golf or tennis shirt and therefore the polo shirt is the grandfather of all shirt names for this style of shirt. Whether Lacoste calls it a golf shirt, polo shirt or tennis shirt is up to him and irrelevant to the history of the origins of the polo shirt.

Check out the table of eBay sellers at love-u-tshirt and see what the majority of people (not just in the US) call their polo shirts. In September 2006, out of a total of 114,412 (polo) shirts listed on eBay, only 1,088 were listed as tennis shirts. Pretty compelling evidence, so why not have a page on polo shirts independent of the tennis shirt and either rewrite or scrap the page on tennis shirt altogether? As the name ‘tennis shirt’ is sooo irrelevant the page on Lacoste should suffice.

The following are some of the more important examples of support for the origins of the polo shirt prior to Lacoste entering the market with his golf/tennis/polo shirt in France in 1933 and the US in 1951/2. If in doubt you can access these articles by going to newspaperARCHIVES.com, a small fee is required.

In August, 1887 an advertisement in The News, Fredrick Maryland, for polo shirts read in part “Just the thing for hot weather, new line polos”. Yet Wikipedia tells us “Before Lacoste’s 1933 mass-marketing of his tennis shirt, polo players wore thick long-sleeve shirts made of Oxford-cloth cotton.” Hardly the thing for hot weather?

1930 – The Morning Star October 17, Article by O O McIntyre: “The polo shirt becomes a democratic bit of wearing apparel. Originally it marked the Fop but today graces the Tough Mug and International Banker. They are seen at Newport and Coney Island on Park Avenue and Avenue A and priced from one dollar to $42. New York saw the polo first on Vernon Castle.”

1930 The following article headed “Berets and Polo Shirts Find Place in He-Man Wardrobe” was published in the Syracuse Herald: Wednesday July 23, 1930. It is clear from this article alone that the polo shirt was well and truly entrenched in US fashion by 1930.

“The polo shirt is another more or less recent innovation as an article of popular fashion, and the wearing of same signifies no greater knowledge of the game then in the relationship between knicker-bocker pants and golf, and the shirt has gone strong in Syracuse, according to local merchants, just as it has taken the rest of the nation by storm this season.

Mere man apparently favors gay pastel colors too, since those who sell polo shirts testify there is more demand for green, blue, red, the variety of so-called canary yellows and buff, than for white”.

Going by a photo (advertisement) in the Appleton Post Crescent the polo shirt also had a place in women’s fashion in 1930.

The image is of a pretty young woman wearing a tweed skirt, polo shirt and hat for a casual outing.

The history of the polo shirt and the page name are interlinked and both need to be agreed upon together. In summary the polo shirt much like we know it today, was well established in the US for many years prior to Lacoste first marketing his shirt in France in 1933 or in the US in 1952.

To say that the tennis shirt is the forerunner to the polo is as absurd as putting the cart before the horse. And to claim the garment is more often labeled tennis shirt then the polo shirt is as equally absurd. To justify a redirect from polo shirt to tennis shirt as some how being ‘ok’, well, doesn’t deserve mention.

And because something is published by a hundred web sites or even a thousand it does not qualify it’s correctness, it could however show that some webmasters find it far less time consuming to copy then to research.

With reference to Brooks Brothers it is my understanding that they produced a dress shirt with a (button down) polo collar in around 1986. This shirt should not be confused with the new line polo shirts of similar times.Drogan 06:19, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Your insistence that the entire consensus-accepted history of the tennis shirt, which your site admits is the accepted consensus history, is wrong. It is based on two fundamental misunderstandings.

First, what was referred to in print as a "polo shirt" prior to the sport of polo's adoption of Lacoste's tennis shirt is not a "polo shirt" or "tennis shirt" as we think of them today. Instead, the reference is to the original "polo shirt", the oxford-broadcloth soft button-down collar shirt which Brooks began producing in 1896 and which they had introduced in many other pastel colors in 1898. Check out Brooks Brothers's history site, the Brooks history coffee-table book edited by George Plimpton a few years ago, or any site detailing the history of the tennis shirt/polo shirt besides yours for more information.

Second, your site insists that someone in Argentina was selling emblemized tennis shirts in the 1920s, and uses this throughout as evidence that Rene Lacoste did not invent the tennis shirt. It cites to a 1986 Time Magazine article to support this assertion. Instead of being fact, however, that story was the unproven defense to a trademark-infringement lawsuit which Ralph Lauren brought against a Buenos Aires haberdasher in 1986. The haberdasher settled the lawsuit out of court and agreed not to use Mr. Lauren's polo-horse emblem, and his wild allegation that Rene Lacoste did not invent the shirt was not found to be true. It simply was an allegation, nothing more. Indeed, that is not even Time Magazine's position, and Time did not express it as such in the 1986 article; it simply reported the haberdasher's defense. Check outthis link to see that Time Magazine also considers Rene Lacoste to be the inventor of the tennis/polo shirt.

With respect to Mr. Lacoste's invention, although Chemise Lacoste may not have marketed the shirt directly to Americans before 1951, clearly the shirt did wind up throughout the United States, and appeared in haberdasheries and European resellers years before being directly marketed to the USA by Lacoste himself. Indeed, Lacoste did first wear his invention in the United States in 1926, and newspapers commented on it. Whatever its marketing status by Chemise Lacoste, the shirt soon took the US by storm, as the bona fide sources to which the article is directed attest.

As a result, your conclusions are unfounded and not sourced correctly for Wikipedia purposes. They are based on misunderstandings and unproven allegations. Moreover, self-published information is not a valid source on Wikipedia (see WP:SELFPUB for more information). Your self-published history makes allegations which are unmatched by any other source anywhere regarding the history of the tennis shirt, either in print or on the internet, and thus is not a fitting source for Wikipedia. 66.142.58.162 15:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted your removal of the Missing information box. Your comment (→History - box rm per discussion) seems inappropriate given that there are at least 3 people arguing for the need for extra history, and only one (yourself) arguing against it. I'll also second the need to find references that don't rely on commercial vendors with a conflict of interest. You argue that love-u-tshirt.com is an inappropriate source of references, and at least two of us point out that the same is true of the vendors you largely rely on (with many references to the same article rather than "ibids" which makes it seem like there are more sources than there are).

The article continues to suggest that Lacoste introduced more innovations at once than the record seems to indicate. E.g. it seems that more casual short-sleeved "polo" shirts, though with different fabric, were in fashion before he came on the scene. (They may be dress shirts now, but the description suggests that they were more casual in that time). Given that the article is properly titled "polo shirt" as we've now established, clarifying the history of the name up front will help.

All these details need to be properly sourced of course, and we need someone to look at the newspaper references cited above. Some more history on knitted vs woven cloth would be nice. References to the lawsuit seem relevant also - do you have sources better than the Time article, and does it talk about more than the logo controversy (e.g. what polo players were wearing in 1893)?

So who has access to the newspaper archives, and "Economy & Business September 1, 1986", that can help us find a consensus here (or at least let us represent whatever remaining properly-referenced controversy remains)? --NealMcB 01:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lacoste in USA 1926.jpg

Image:Lacoste in USA 1926.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lacoste logo.gif

Image:Lacoste logo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Polo Ralph Lauren logo.png

The image Image:Polo Ralph Lauren logo.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --21:33, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Weird discussion at the end of the article

It's in first person and reads like a blog entry. I deleted it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.32.197 (talk) 03:08, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Proper Way to Button a Polo Shirt

This has been a question since Business Casual became the craze in the 1990's. Most Polo (Golf) shirts have 3 buttons. When wearing a 3-button polo (golf) shirt to the office, the rule of thumb is that the bottom two buttons should be actually buttoned. If you are wearing a golf shirt with 2 buttons, then the bottom button should actually be buttoned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.2.193.1 (talk) 14:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Very few golfers wear anything else

I don't know about everyone else, but I get some weird images in my head when I read that sentence. Evanh2008, Super Genius (User page) (talk) 08:53, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Gay gits?Trish pt7 (talk) 19:22, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Gays like wring them?79.77.207.102 (talk) 15:22, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Knit vs weave

The intro says Polo shirts are usually made of knitted cloth (rather than woven cloth), usually piqué cotton, but the linked article says piqué is a kind of woven cloth. Again in the history section, He designed a white, short-sleeved, loosely-knit piqué cotton (he called the cotton weave jersey petit piqué) shirt. I think we can all agree that polo shirts are of knitted fabric. So is the piqué article wrong, or are polo shirts not piqué? My guess is that the fabric is properly called "piqué knit", i.e. a knit that's named after the weave called piqué, and that this is common enough that it ought to be noted in the piqué article. But that's just a guess. --Dan Wylie-Sears 2 (talk) 11:29, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Currently, 2024, there is no link in support of the statement. (All my polo shirts are woven).Kdammers (talk) 17:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

List of brands is unencyclopeadic

I suggest that the section be deleted. Roxy, the dog. wooF 18:47, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

It dose not mention the Argentine 'Peplau Ranges'.79.77.207.102 (talk) 15:21, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

"Chukker shirt" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Chukker shirt. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 14#Chukker shirt until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Ibadibam (talk) 06:11, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Intro

The introduction is inadequate. How could one get an idea of what a PS is from it? It's a shirt with a collar -- that leaves out a key point to wit, the shirt has a collar placket. Kdammers (talk) 17:20, 14 February 2024 (UTC)