Talk:Vaas Montenegro
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Sources
[edit]Possible sources to expand I some years ago.
- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59.★Trekker (talk) 21:50, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
- 60, 61, 62, 63, 64.
Indonesia
[edit]Hi @Haleth:, some sources do refer to the Islands as being in Indonesia 1 and Vaas as Indonesian. ★Trekker (talk) 03:12, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I don't believe Cinemablend is considered a RS by community consensus, a dubiously reliable one at best. And that book is in Swedish and none of the preview pages you linked turned up anything I can actually read. This is an example of a situation where it would be ideal that facts, as opposed to opinions, about the fictional work is cited directly from primary sources, i.e. interviews or features with Ubisoft or the game's creative team and actors. All I've read up so far based on my research, is that the Rook Islands is simply inspired by real world Asia-Pacific cultures, which is not the same as Spec Ops: The Line or Ghost Recon: Wildlands which used fictionalized versions of real world locations as their setting. Some Malay/Indonesian words (not entire grammatically correct sentences spoken in the Malay/Indonesian language) are used in Far Cry 3, particularly by characters like Citra. The tattoo culture is obviously taken directly from real world Polynesian cultural practices. But I know for a fact that multiple commentators have scrutinized Vaas' perceived ethnicity and accent, and many of the newer "analysis" sources talk along these lines (as well as the cultural appropriation controversy). Until and unless Ubisoft staff issues a definitive statement that the Rook Islands is under Indonesian jurisdiction within that fictional world, please do not add any speculative prose about the character's nationality, or alter anything in the main Far Cry 3 article along these lines.
- By the way, thank you for your good work with collating and researching the topic about Vaas' cultural and ethnic identity. The academic sources especially are awesome. Haleth (talk) 05:01, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Fair, thank you @Haleth:.★Trekker (talk) 12:59, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I respect/appreciate the changes you have done to the section but I think mentioning that Mando's firt language isn't Mexican Spanish but Quebec French is noteworthy/relevant since his use of the accent for Vaas is intentional and not just him using his natural voice.★Trekker (talk) 13:16, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think the fact that he speaks Quebec French as a first language is noteworthy or relevant if the page is a BLP about the actor himself. But it is irrelevant for the character since none of the development/interview sources actually bring up what accent he used for the character, which is surprising when you consider the character's popularity. Do the character analysis sources bring it up at all when they scrutinize his ambiguous cultural identity? If they don't, then it is original research because you the editor made the judgment on whether it is relevant, and not the secondary source in question. Actors put on accents all the time so I don't see why their natural speaking voice is relevant unless the cited source specifically bring it up as an instrumental aspect of the developmental process. Haleth (talk) 13:25, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Mando does state that Vaas has a Hispanic accent when asked on Twitter, its in the note. But fair you have a point that OR should be voided unless a source brings it up directly.★Trekker (talk) 13:41, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- We all know Mando essentially played Vaas as if he is a native Hispanic character, which partly fueled speculation into the fan theory connection between Diego and Vaas, but I am referring specifically to your point about the explicit mention of Mando speaking Quebec French as a first language, which you insisted is relevant for inclusion in this article. In this context, the fact that he is culturally Mexican at home seems to be more relevant then his nationality, but again none of the development sources I found specifically explore that aspect, and it is only brought up as part of the character analysis commentary by secondary sources. I have worked on a few other character articles where the natural speaking voices of the actors are part of the discussion about the development of the characters they play, like Kaidan Alenko, Bastila Shan, and Atlas (BioShock). Don't think Vaas is one of them. Haleth (talk) 13:45, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I believe its relevant because it means Mando's Hispanic depiction is an intentional choice to break from Vaas backstory as a native and brother of Citra (who does have a South East accent and speaks Indonesian/Malay at one point in the game) and not just a byproduct of him using his natural accent. Again, you are right that its nearing OR on my part so I will drop it unless I find a source directly mentioning it.★Trekker (talk) 13:52, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- We all know Mando essentially played Vaas as if he is a native Hispanic character, which partly fueled speculation into the fan theory connection between Diego and Vaas, but I am referring specifically to your point about the explicit mention of Mando speaking Quebec French as a first language, which you insisted is relevant for inclusion in this article. In this context, the fact that he is culturally Mexican at home seems to be more relevant then his nationality, but again none of the development sources I found specifically explore that aspect, and it is only brought up as part of the character analysis commentary by secondary sources. I have worked on a few other character articles where the natural speaking voices of the actors are part of the discussion about the development of the characters they play, like Kaidan Alenko, Bastila Shan, and Atlas (BioShock). Don't think Vaas is one of them. Haleth (talk) 13:45, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Mando does state that Vaas has a Hispanic accent when asked on Twitter, its in the note. But fair you have a point that OR should be voided unless a source brings it up directly.★Trekker (talk) 13:41, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think the fact that he speaks Quebec French as a first language is noteworthy or relevant if the page is a BLP about the actor himself. But it is irrelevant for the character since none of the development/interview sources actually bring up what accent he used for the character, which is surprising when you consider the character's popularity. Do the character analysis sources bring it up at all when they scrutinize his ambiguous cultural identity? If they don't, then it is original research because you the editor made the judgment on whether it is relevant, and not the secondary source in question. Actors put on accents all the time so I don't see why their natural speaking voice is relevant unless the cited source specifically bring it up as an instrumental aspect of the developmental process. Haleth (talk) 13:25, 14 August 2022 (UTC)