Talk:Yekaterina Stravinsky

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A fact from Yekaterina Stravinsky appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 7 August 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Igor Stravinsky said of his cousin and first wife, Yekaterina Nosenko (pictured), that they were "closer than lovers sometimes are"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Yekaterina Stravinsky.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet (talk) 19:19, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... ~~that Yekaterina Nosenko, Igor Stravinsky's first wife, was also his cousin?~~ Source: "A more notable event of 1905, on the face of it, was [Stravinsky's] engagement in August to his cousin Yekaterina (Katya) Nosenko..." [1]
- ALT1: ... that Yekaterina Nosenko (pictured), Igor Stravinsky's first wife and cousin, was also considered a talented painter, calligrapher, and musician in her own right? Source: Painting and calligraphy in Stravinsky: Glimpses of a Life by Robert Craft, page 105; musical talent [2]
- Reviewed:
- Comment: QPQ coming in a couple of days. I'll be expanding this article tomorrow, then adding a couple of new images which I'll be scanning from my personal library. So please expect more ALTs and at least one image to be included with them by Friday.

Created by CurryTime7-24 (talk). Self-nominated at 04:25, 19 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Yekaterina Stravinsky; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Interesting overdue article, on fine sources, offline sources accepted AGF. I'd be happy about an image. I'd be unhappy with the original which says nothing about her, only about her relationships to a prominent man. The second hook is fine, just this "also" is not needed. A work of love, this should go to GA and perhaps FA. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments and review. I agree about ALT0 and have struck it out; it was just something I came up with on the fly in order to get this DYK nomination started. I'm glad to have done my small part to bring Yekaterina to wider recognition. Even now, she is widely misrepresented, especially online, and her reputation has suffered in comparison to her more glamorous rival. That said, she was, arguably, the more decisively influential of Igor's wives. She was devotedly interested in his music to the end (Vera spoke on the record a number of times about how she didn't understand her husband's work and didn't care about music in general), produced fair copies of several of his scores, and was the reason he reembraced Orthodox Christianity. Unfaithful and cruel though Igor was to her, he seemed to also love her in his own typically idiosyncratic fashion, even well after her death. Anyway, I'm adding sections today that will deal with her personal character and influence on him. After that, tomorrow I'll be scanning and uploading a photo of her as a young woman, which incidentally remained one of Igor's most treasures possession for the rest of his life. By Friday everything should be ready, with new ALTs to choose from and an image to do her justice. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 17:24, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I'm back. Article has been expanded, an image is now included, and I have some new ALTs to offer:

Nosenko in 1907

ALT2: ... that Igor Stravinsky said of his cousin and first wife, Yekaterina Nosenko (pictured), that they were "closer than lovers sometimes are, for mere lovers may be strangers though they live and love together all their lives"? Source: Expositions and Developments by Igor Stravinsky and Robert Craft, p. 43
ALT3: ~~... that cousins Yekaterina Nosenko (pictured) and Igor Stravinsky were married by "a kind of Graham Greene bootleg priest" because cousin marriages were banned in Russia?~~ Source: Stravinsky—A Creative Spring: Russia and France, 1882–1934 by Stephen Walsh, p. 88
ALT4: ... that in the household Yekaterina Nosenko (pictured) shared with her cousin and husband Igor Stravinsky, she was said to be the "main personality"? Source: Catherine and Igor Stravinsky: A Family Chronicle by Théodore and Denise Strawinsky, p. 97
Thank you, I love the image, which is licensed, will hopefully be taken and be the main attraction to read the article. I have a question: why is her article Stravinsky and not Nosenko? Depending on the answer, hook wordings could be different, - easier. As they are, I'm striking ALT3 because the type of priest really says nothing about her ;)

I approve the others, with my preference for ALT1. ALT2 is lovely but feels too long for our hasty Main page readers who are fed five-word hooks. (I haven't checked if it's technically too long.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:26, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I went with her married surname because Robert Craft and Stephen Walsh both have her filed under it in the indexes of their books. Xenia Stravinsky refers to her as "Ye. G. Stravinskaya" throughout her book.

About ALT2, I also think it is too long, but felt it was worth a try. I suppose it could be shortened to just "closer than lovers sometimes are". What do you think? —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 17:08, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that sounds good to me, worth trying, formally please. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:27, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2a: ... ... that Igor Stravinsky said of his cousin and first wife, Yekaterina (pictured), that they were "closer than lovers sometimes are"? —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 17:32, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I love that one! Preferred, with image please. --

Date format

Regarding edits 1 and 2 I am of the opinion that MOS:DATETIES takes priority over MOS:DATERET due to the subject being Russian and a French citizen, both of which tie to dmy. There don't seem to be any ties to mdy, considering the article for Igor Stravinsky is dmy despite becoming a US citizen later in life. – Mesidast (talk) 12:49, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to your logic, Igor Stravinsky should use American English and dating formats, yet his article uncontroversially uses British. So I don't see what the problem is here, unless you just personally believe that American English and dating are "wrong" and should be quarantined to "American" articles. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 13:24, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kindly do not put words in my mouth or create strawman arguments about English formats. Nowhere have I stated that Igor Stravinsky should use MDY and absolutely nowhere have I said anything regarding which differing English format to use as you seem to believe, you instead are the one that brought English up leading me to wonder if this is just projection.

I'm not sure how stating that an article about a Russian/French person should use the date formats associated with those countries per MOS:DATETIES meant that I believed American formats to be "wrong" or that they should be quarantined. I noted the article about Igor Stravinsky being DMY as he has slightly less ties to DMY than Yekaterina Stravinsky but still uses the format therefore this article should definitely qualify for DMY. – Mesidast (talk) 10:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]