User talk:Hertz1888/Archive 7

We absolutely must find some article where this can be used

Maybe "List of students expelled from Harvard College"? ... [1]:

EXPELLED FOR PART HE HAD IN HURLING THINGS AT VALLEE - Boston, Mass., Jan. 30 [1931]. - AP - The Boston Post says that James E. Angier of New Haven, Conn. Harvard student and son of Professor Roswell Parker Angier of Yale, was dismissed from Harvard by the faculty today. The dismissal, the Post adds, followed a series of escapades which ended last Thursday night, when grapefruit were hurled at Rudy Vallee by three students at the Metropolitan theatre.

Angier, the Post says, was one of three Harvard boys taken to the La Grange street police station in connection with the grapefruit episode. The fruit was hurled at the radio singer from the balcony of the theatre during a performance.

The three students were released by the police when Vallee and the theatre management refused to press charges against them.

William P. Blanc of New York, according to the Post, one of the other of the trio, was placed on probation by the faculty.

Could have been worse... President Hoare would have flogged him in the library. (Note grapefruit treated as plural -- how quaint. Note also the lowercase theatre and street -- this style is used consistently throughout the page and I don't recall ever seeing that.)

Also worth checking out: [2] [3]

EEng (talk) 16:05, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Da, Whittaker Walt. Hertz1888 (talk) 16:26, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

The day of reckoning draws nigh!

The DYK bureaucracy has approved us. Not sure how long before it goes live, but it might be about 2 days (but I could be reading things completely wrong too). Now really, it's not a big deal since no one's going to notice if actually the Trustee of the Charity of Edward Hopkins comes before the President of Phi Beta Kappa, but if it's just that you work better on deadline, then now's your moment. But really just have fun, if you have time. The two sources I think you need are those cited just before the emumeration of the parade.

Some of the 2013 Commencement Office links seem to have gone dead but I don't think they're anything you'd need.

Idiotic DYK rules forbid tags, so I moved some of them into "<! --" comments -- if you happen to figure out any of the answers somehow along the way do fill them in or add pointer to sources on the Talk e.g. who are the "consuls of Boston" in the parade?

This is absolutely riveting! EEng (talk) 13:09, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Oops! Looks like they were really at low water mark, might be appearing noon today (Friday). I think the march to main page can be seen here Template:Did_you_know/Queue but it's a bit Rube Goldberg. So can you just make a careful typo pass, if you see this in time? EEng (talk) 13:26, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for jumping on this. Re column balancing, I think you'll find it's impossible to control it down to the last +/- two lines, because of the interaction of window width, presence of images at right, etc. all interacting. Though maybe you'll figure some technique I've missed. EEng (talk) 15:16, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

There is a way. Is that better now (please confirm)? Browsers can play funny tricks. Hertz1888 (talk) 15:44, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

If you run out of things to do, can you find a ref or source or something explaining why Increase Mather worked so hard to ban plum (or plumb) cake -- I'm pretty certain it's that the plums were soaked in alcohol, per Rum cake (search plum) but I'd like something definite. Post here if you can find it. Thanks! EEng (talk) 15:29, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry I never did get to checking on the order of procession, but hope today's work makes amends. It's been an intense period of time. I would never intentionally rain on your parade. On to DYK; congratulations! Hertz1888 (talk) 15:44, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Congrats to you, too. You underestimate the importance of your contributions. EEng (talk) 18:18, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I'm glad it helped, but you truly did the bulk of the heavy lifting. In plum cake, as in vino (as ve know), Veritas. Hertz1888 (talk) 18:31, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, the nerve!

[4] EEng (talk) 21:32, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Society for optimal edit summaries

Had I been consulted, I would have suggested the edit summary On a clear dais you can see forever [5] EEng (talk) 23:18, 11 October 2013 (UTC) P.S. I was tickled pink by "Whitaker Walt". Or tickled pinko, I suppose.

Yes, you can. What a perspective! And colorful, too. Hertz1888 (talk) 23:42, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK for History and traditions of Harvard commencements

Gatoclass (talk) 16:02, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Back to the statue

I can't believe we missed putting David McCord's poem in the article.

"Is that you, John Harvard?"
I said to his statue.
"Aye, that's me," said John,
"And after you're gone."

You'll find it here:[6]. I'm sure you can find the optimal placement for it. Hertz1888 (talk) 23:51, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Your wish is my command [7]. Sooner or later someone's going to come by and say the style is "unencyclopedic", whatever that means. First they'll say that the lead isn't really a lead. I'm not looking forward to that. EEng (talk) 04:53, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Spelling of 'woollens'

You just reverted my edit about the spelling of 'woollens/woolens' in the Mayflower article. Is woolens the American spelling? Valetude (talk) 09:29, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it is. The two forms are mentioned in the woolen article's lead. I wasn't aware of the distinction as an WP:ENGVAR matter until this moment; now it makes sense. Looks like the American style suits (no pun intended) the Mayflower article, but thanks for your good-faith edit. Cheers, Hertz1888 (talk) 09:50, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Highfalutin' hyphenation

I hate those people with bots that drop in and make a bunch of useless changes like turning underscores in image names into blanks, or "cite article" into "cite journal" and so on, like that mattered. But the one that visited "commencement" recently changed your newly-minted to newly minted, and though I wanted very much to be able to take umbrage at that, after some research (this being a point I've never quite mastered for some reason) I've concluded that it's really true -- no hyphen after -ly adverbs.

So I was wrong. Live and learn, and I may cry for only a few nights. Hertz1888 (talk) 06:33, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

7500 views on commencement yesterday, another 500 today, which I gather is pretty good. But NOT ONE piece of feedback -- what a trainwreck that feedback system is.

On the other hand, vandalism was minimal. And no feedback could be taken as no complaints. Hertz1888 (talk) 06:33, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Remember the signs in the dining halls begging for the return of cups and dishes? Apparently this is not just a modern problem [8]:

And if any scholar or scholars at any time take away or detain any vessel of the College's, great or small, from the Hall out of the doors from the sight of the buttery hatch without the butler's or servitor's knowledge, or against their will he or she shall be punished three pence, but more at the President's discretion, if perverseness appear. But, if he or they shall presume to detail any vessel, great or small, that it be wanting the next meal, he shall be punished the full value thereof; and, in case any shall lose, mar, or spoil such vessels, then shall they pay double thereof; and, if they conceal it until by examination it be found out fourfold the value thereof.

Read further in the linked source for the prohibition on scholars entering the kitchen (though for some reason they were allowed to do so if accompanied by parent or guardian, or "some grave and sober strangers") and the penalty "if any shall presume to thrust in". EEng (talk) 05:57, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Beware of grave and somber strangers. Unless they have stationarity. Now there's a truly highfalutin' word, but I can't think of a more apt one. Hertz1888 (talk) 06:33, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

If you saw I originally attributed "pride of permanence" to McCord's JH, but that seemed over the top even for ME. (ME = all-caps first-person singular object pronoun, not the state of Maine.) As I mused on a replacement "stately statis" came to mind, but such thoughts receded after I increased my dosage. stationarity does seem right. I've tinkered a bit more and I think I'm satisfied now. EEng (talk) 07:06, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Then I would leave it alone. Certainly no more monumental changes. Hertz1888 (talk) 07:15, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

You very funny man. EEng (talk)

P.S. Did you see my original text for what now reads --

The statue's inscription is the subject of an arch polemic traditionally recited for visitors.

What I originally considered was

Reconnoitering retirees ritually receive rote recitations, regurgitating reputedly wrong representations in writings ranged on the resplendent reverend's rock of repose

EEng (talk) 07:24, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's a good thing you didn't use it. Ridiculously roundabout, raplike, and rather retro. Hertz1888 (talk) 09:53, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

WP:1RR on Israelis article

Hello Hertz1888 the Israeli article is subject to WP:1RR, I suggest you undo your revert and voice your opinion in the talk section of the page. Palestinians are indeed an ethnicity even though many Israeli's and the Israeli government may consider them not to be, this is Wikipedia, not Israel, and we must be as neutral and inclusive as possible. Thank you. Lazyfoxx (talk) 15:23, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Your slip is showing

This [9] was obviously not an apostrophe, but rather a single quote. Please be more careful. EEng (talk) 01:19, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 2

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Harvard Bridge linking

I figured I'd get it started, and if I got anything wrong, someone would fix it. :-) - Denimadept (talk) 21:12, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for initiating the edit. Happy and honored to follow in your footsteps. All the best! Hertz1888 (talk) 21:52, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Brooklyn Bridge and D-A-Y

I am most certainly not affiliated with Dudley-Anderson-Yutzy. In fact, I was not even born when that company went out-of-business in 1983. If you want to bring this up to ANI, I will be happy to provide a copy of my IRL passport to prove this point. For the record, I am also not involved with the Dutch East India Company or the Kingdom of Prussia. All of my COIs are declared on my userpage. BlueSalix (talk) 18:50, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Down memory lane

[10] EEng (talk) 22:01, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

People who think they know everything...

...are very annoying to those of us who do. EEng (talk) 06:23, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Jerusalem talk page

Another editors comments weren't deleted. That was written by me solely.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 11:35, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry I missed that. However, your omission of an edit summary was a contributing factor. Please use edit summaries to avoid future confusion. They are also useful in a variety of other ways. I found the now-deleted content of interest and thought it worth keeping. Hertz1888 (talk) 11:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I'll keep that in mind in the future when blanking my unanswered comments that I decide to redact. The comments of interest came from the blue link at the very top of the screen "Read viewer feedback" here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Jerusalem?ref=talk&filter=featured Serialjoepsycho (talk) 11:47, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Email

Would appreciate if you could email me. Need advice. Ankh.Morpork 19:17, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Please accept my apologies for not responding sooner. A number of circumstances interfered. I am afraid I have let you down. I currently refrain from using e-mail in connection with Wikipedia. If there is anything I can help with, without resorting to e-mail, I gladly will try to do so. Hertz1888 (talk) 21:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Tumor Treating fields

Thank you for editing the references http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor_Treating_Fields I didn't know how to fix it, I'm sure it is a simple thing, everything is if you know how. So, thank you very much for editing that! 66.245.21.131 (talk) 19:43, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Attention!

I didn’t want to be nosy, but I just thought one of the messages were rude. It said people like this user says don’t like people who [think] they know everything. I don’t agree with that. You’re just trying to help.Allied Rangoons (talk) 00:38, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

I have no idea what your message is about. Hertz1888 (talk) 00:50, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

See [11]. He seems to object to #People_who_think_they_know_everything... . He's obviously saying that while we think we understood what we believe was said, perhaps we don't realize that what was said is not what was meant. Or something. Does that clear it up? EEng (talk) 15:08, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Rude, no. He missed the humor intended in your remark—ironically. I think he was trying to be sympathetic. Thanks for nailing the connection. That does clear it up! Very best, Hertz1888 (talk) 16:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh, no! I was saying the message on Paul Revere's talk page. The message said someone should read better. It's just that. I was being trying to be sympathetic because some messages on your page posted by EEng were negative. The oh, no is going to EEng (talk). For you, EEng, you really should try a more positive message than saying Hertz1888 (talk) knows everything and you don't like these kind of people. They're just doing their jobs. Just to answer your question, Hertz1888, that very message was also written by EEng (talk) .Allied Rangoons (talk) 21:58, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Hertz, perhaps your legendary powers of diplomacy and tact can arrest this snowball of do-gooding. There may be age and language issues here as well -- honestly can't tell. EEng (talk) 12:05, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh really! Prehaps you can stop trying to post negative comments. Now I'm not here to argue. I not new, but I'm not very good with Wikipedia, but let me tell you; I have a few admins that are my friends, and yes, Hertz does have power but Hertz can't arrest because is this user doing vandalism? I'm sorry that this user God of WikiOlympians, or whatever is writing on your page but seriously, this user's new. What he/she is thinking I do not know. Thanks and have a great day.Allied Rangoons (talk) 21:11, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

You completely misunderstand the situation. Hertz and I are old friends and there is nothing hostile or negative about my message to him -- did you not see, just above, where Hertz said that you had "missed the humor"? I could try to explain but I fear there's a cultural gap here I just don't have the energy to bridge. I understand you mean well but you are now, in fact, being what you said you didn't want to be, which is nosey. EEng (talk) 22:18, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

P.S. "Arrest", in this context, means "stop" -- nothing like "arrest" as in a policeman putting the handcuffs on someone.

Well, thanks for telling me. You see I'm trying to keep negative comments and vandalism from other people's talk page. Sorry if I was being nosy, but truth is the message, someone should read carefully, on Paul Revere's talk page. And no offense but I'm not trying to be mean, but at first I thought it was a she. Sorry. You know I'm not good with usernames. Like, God of WikiOlympians, I still don't know if the user's he or she. It would be helpful if everyone put boy or girl Userboxes on the user page. That would be better. Thanks for telling me. Very embarrassed,Allied Rangoons (talk) 23:33, 4 April 2014 (UTC).

I think it would be best if you stick to addressing vandalism on article pages, and let each user worry about his or her own talk page. If you don't mind my saying, it looks like your native language is something other than English; without doubt there are pages where skills in your native language are especially needed (for example, verifying non-English sources). If you ask at WP:Teahouse/Questions I'm sure someone will help you find where you can contribute in such ways. Good luck! EEng (talk) 23:59, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. I think that is very good advice. No hard feelings, Mr. Crab. This has all been a big misunderstanding over nothing substantial. As you may have come to realize, the messages you've seen from EEng to me feature good-natured banter and friendly sarcasm (please look up any unfamiliar words). We try to support and amuse each other, and when we edit together it is in the best spirit of collaboration. You have a generous amount of humor on your User page. I hope you will learn to recognize irony in others and refrain from sensing hostility where there is none. Now I think it is time to close this discussion and not prolong it any further. Hertz1888 (talk) 00:10, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

The truth is I'm am from another country. English isn't my first language but Chinese is. I'm not very good at Chinese thought. I'm better at English. Yes, okay, I'll close the discussion. Thanks for helping!Allied Rangoons (talk) 23:04, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Marathon?

If I remember correctly you have an interest in the Boston Marathon. They're looking for some Marathon-related editorial help at [12]. EEng (talk) 22:10, 7 April 2014 (UTC) (on more careful exam, this might be a stale request -- not sure).

You do remember correctly, but I'll have to pass on this one. Off-wiki obligations beckon. Thanks, though, and cheers for now. Hertz1888 (talk) 00:41, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

To say

I've missed your sarcasm before but I've definitely not missed this user's "so called sarcasm".=)Allied Rangoons (talk) 00:22, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Okay, if you insist. Happy editing, and thanks for the star! Hertz1888 (talk) 00:38, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Your welcome. I appreciate all of the things you've done to help me.Allied Rangoons (talk) 00:49, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Battle of Trenton

Hi! Do you think I should delete the conservation we had on April 10th on the semi-protection request?Allied Rangoons (talk) 21:08, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

In my opinion the conservation should be conserved. EEng (talk) 00:18, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Alright. Thanks for answering.Allied Rangoons (talk) 00:37, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

I'll prob'ly be crucified for this...

... but you know sometimes I just can't resist. [13] EEng (talk) 03:56, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Maybe just a srip of the tongue. Are you sure it doesn't come from here or here [14]? P.S. You deserve whatever you get. Perfect response, though, outrageously funny. Hertz1888 (talk) 06:54, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I'm bracing for the outrage. Everyone's such a clitic. EEng (talk) 09:56, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

One of the best Wikipedia laughs I've had ever (speaking of tongues). EEng (talk) 17:43, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh, for cryin' out loud, it's a real word. Oh, well, the morpheme the better. Especially loved your "out of the guttural". What's with the small letters? Surely you're not being modest. Go do some useful work. Hertz1888 (talk) 18:53, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

On talk pages with high temper-tantrum rates I find that posting attempts at humor in small reduces the chances I will be chastised for distracting important people from their urgent debate. EEng (talk) 19:38, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

You have a point. About 6-point. I know your type; face it. Hertz1888 (talk) 19:46, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Such a roman-tic. EEng (talk) 00:02, 12 April 2014 (UTC) [I dare you to stoop lower than this.]

<microscopically tiny>And there I was afraid that everyone would groan and throw Rotteneggs at me for recycling such an hocharchaisch pun. (Sorry for the gratuitous Germanism. I just lurrrve our quaint, old-fashioned Indogermanistenjargon, just like Opoudjis his Tsakonian.)</microscopically tiny> --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:43, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Cunning linguist was of course derivative but somehow the timing was so utterly perfect... and as you can see my friend Hertz and I are currently engaged in a race to the bottom. EEng (talk) 18:11, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, yes ... which punster could resist such an occasion? And by the way, your marriage proposal is accepted: Ja! Ich will. You will now have to keep me. Bwahahaha. [ʔʰə̥ʔʰə̥] --Florian Blaschke (talk) 19:12, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Hertz, save me! EEng (talk) 19:30, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Too late. An ugly divorce is waiting. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Why comment when I can sit back and be entertained by all this tongue-in-cheek dalliance [15] (meanings 1&2)? I can't tell whether it's word-played out or just getting started. Anyway, it's not my affair. Just be sure you observe the house rules.[16] Hertz1888 (talk) 21:03, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

It may sound distasteful, but Mr. or Mrs. Florsheim Blasé (if that really is his or her name] several posts ago made reference to tongues out of cheeks. Anyway, don't be so smug. You could still be named as a co-respondent. EEng (talk) 04:12, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for correcting the spelling and link formatting. I noticed the name was supposed to be spelled Benedict; but I forgot it completely. How did you do the link formatting? When I was adding Benedict Arnold, I saw the others names were like "*name". I tried to put Benedict Arnold in that kind of format and it came up like this:

• Benidict Arnold (_{I know, Benedict is spelled wrong again. NOT FUNNY. Aw man, I wrote this in CAPITAL letters! >:(} JK!)

Could you tell me how to edit the link format? Thanxs.Allied Rangoon/Anti-VandalBot (talk) 23:45, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

_{Wat up? I gat stuf to tel u. this: dank u.}

hey

Wait what? The link format worked! How did that happen?Allied Rangoon/Anti-VandalBot (talk) 23:56, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Let me try again:

• User:Hertz1888

It worked!!! _{Your page is magical.}Allied Rangoon/Anti-VandalBot (talk) 23:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Drowning our sorrows

Feel free to throw in any random good stuff you like to this work in progress. I have all the refs in my pocket, actually, but one area that I really could use help on is her names -- what AKAs should be bolded in lead? Should the article be titled according to her name at death -- whatever that would be -- or her (probably better-known) donor-lady name, if you get my drift. "Explorer Rice Denies That He Was Eaten By Cannibals" -- I love it!

Suggested DYK:

... that after manning a Titanic lifeboat's oars and giving Harvard a library honoring her drowned son, Eleanor Elkins Widener fought cannibals "further up the Amazon than any white woman had penetrated"?

EEng (talk) 03:50, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Cannibal waiter to customer: "Will you have Rice with that?" Hertz1888 (talk) 14:45, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

That's pretty goddam good! EEng (talk) 15:26, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Pardon me, but graudated [17] is a term used in the old German universities. It means "to grow old and gray with the passage of many days". Please be more careful or I'll have you fed to the Amazonian cannabis. EEng (talk) 12:40, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Better grau, grau than war, war. Hertz1888 (talk) 14:45, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

"I don't get it", he said sheepishly. EEng (talk) 15:26, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Baah. Reference here. Hertz1888 (talk) 17:14, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

In my defense I point out that Geo W Bush wasn't familiar with that particular quotation either. EEng (talk) 17:37, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Severe disappointment

It turns out, according to the NY Evening Telegram, May 2, 1920, p.10: "Wife Remains on Yacht and Escapes Encounter ... As luck would have it, she [i.e. Mrs. E.E.W. Rice] remained on the specially constructed yacht while her husband and his young companion examined the country around the headwaters" -- during which reconnoiter the 7-foot cannibals were encountered. Seems she's always in some redoubt while the menfolk engage the cannibals or go down with the ship. Except that she had most of the money I'd be tempted to think she was one of those "black widow" types.

What am I gonna do for a really groovy hook now? Dammit. EEng (talk) 12:00, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, so much for her. How dull. Wouldn't touch a 7-foot cannibal with a 10-foot Pole, I suppose. How about a less flamboyant hook, such as DYK that Harvard owes its largest library to a Titanic passenger's survival in a lifeboat? Hertz1888 (talk) 10:01, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, I'm not Russian to judgment. Just the Titanic story alone is passé, but how about this (2 characters over the nominal limit but maybe no one will notice)?

... that after manning a Titanic lifeboat's oars and giving Harvard a library honoring her drowned son, Eleanor Elkins Widener waited on a yacht while her second husband battled seven-foot Amazon cannibals?

EEng (talk) 12:12, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Like chicken soup, it might not help but it couldn't hurt. Actually it sounds exotic enough to win favor. Hertz1888 (talk) 15:04, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Now that I'm over the initial disappointment I think the above is fine, though nothing can fully replace the society matron battling the cannibals personally. EEng (talk) 22:05, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Riddle me this

What does a vegan zombie say?
Grains! Graaaaa-ins!!!

EEng (talk) 00:39, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

A vegan zombie? Ay-yi-yi. What is this page turning into, a clubhouse? What will the neighbors think? Hertz1888 (talk) 01:42, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Thinking neighbors are few and far between [18]. EEng (talk) 06:10, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

It's a shame. Except for mistakenly boarding the train for Cherbourg (instead of Cherboourg, as intended) [19] the Widener men might have died in their beds. EEng (talk) 13:27, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

It really is an old-boy network

[20] EEng (talk) 20:31, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Such a rush, too. You'd think the upper crust (once, I'm sure unfairly, described as "a layer of crumbs supported by dough") would have more patience. Hardly a shotgun wedding, either. Hertz1888 (talk) 23:01, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

And (Note A) they apparently used a planned wedding in Trinity as a blind! It's as if Prince William eloped the night before, leaving all those dukes and royals and archbishops waiting in the Abbey. EEng (talk) 00:38, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Now I'll be crucified fer sher (see image)

EEng (talk) 01:55, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Deservedly. Can we have some decorum here? Please? Hertz1888 (talk) 02:31, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Decorum? Like new furniture and drapes? EEng (talk) 03:48, 20 April 2014 (UTC) (Be honest -- you laughed.)

OK, OK. I can't stand this silent treatment. Let's see how long I can remain continent. EEng (talk) 02:53, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Been busy flirting with Margaret Dumont, will respond soon. Don't do anything hasty. Hertz1888 (talk) 04:24, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Worth a look

This makes absolutely riveting reading -- look for No. 4 section and branch out from there. EEng (talk) 15:57, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Dang!

I see now. Here [21] crewman Perkis describes his experience in No.4, then on the next page the questioning turns to Hogg with little fanfare. I got the two confused, and good thing you caught it. I suppose the Hogg testimony could re restored as "A crewman in another boat described [etc etc]" but that's really not about Widener anymore so including it seems strained.

How nice it is working with you -- we make a great team. This is shaping up with much more meat on its bones than I'd anticipated, esp. the images. By the time the DYK works its way to approval I hope we can give some attention to other articles linked off the hook -- HEW, Widener Library, Rice. On HEW I'd esp. like to get more about his book collecting (esp. on the last trip -- Bacon in his pocket and so on [22]), whether he had willed his books to HU or mom just gave them, and how exactly HU parlayed that into getting a library out of the old gal. EEng (talk) 05:10, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

A ha!

Now the truth comes out. See WP:COI, WP:AUTOBIO etc etc. EEng (talk) 03:10, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Yikes, I've been found out. A 157-year-old radio pioneer. WP:AUTOBIO indeed. Ha. Hertz1888 (talk) 03:29, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

You'll recall I've had my suspicions for some time. [23] EEng (talk) 04:36, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Your opinion will be helpful

[24] EEng (talk) 03:20, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

I was wondering about that too, and had experimented. Introducing her name later rather than sooner doesn't bother me; it reads more interestingly your way, as is. Indicating passage of time seems like a more legitimate need. Hard to radically rearrange the text, though, without going way over the limit.

How about if we say this:

... that eight years after rowing a Titanic lifeboat and honoring her drowned son with a Harvard library, Eleanor Widener waited on a yacht while her second husband fought "scantily-clad, ferocious cannibals"?

What is the character count? Is there room for "Elkins"? For "large"? To restore "(shown)"? Hertz1888 (talk) 03:53, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

It's 205, and the limit is 200. Frankly I don't share any of the reviewer's concerns about the hook. If you concur (not that I was canvassing you, mind you) and say so, I think that will be the end of that. EEng (talk) 04:36, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Wait, I didn't read your comment carefully. If you really feel the 8 yrs needs to be in there, then we need to drop Elkins (as you have already done) and also get another 5 characters out. That could be second (but that WOULD be confusing) or drowned (but that kills the tie-in with the lifeboat etc.), or fecocious (scantily-clad is nonnegotiable, if I may say). But, again, I think it's fine as now nominated. As far as I'm concerned it's OK of there's a measure of "Hey... WHAT?" as the reader looks at it -- that's why it's a "hook". Your call. EEng (talk) 05:42, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

I think the reviewer's call to indicate passage of time to avoid confusion is a valid one. If we do the following the count drops by 7 characters, to 198:

... that 8 years after rowing a Titanic lifeboat and honoring her drowned son with a Harvard library, Eleanor Widener waited on a yacht while her new husband fought "scantily-clad, ferocious cannibals"?

Yes, I know that substituting 8 for eight is a MOS faux pas, but this is not article space, and perhaps the non-standard style will be overlooked anyway (if anyone even cares). The word "new" only adds to the hook's attraction, even if "new" after five years of marriage may be stretching a point. Actually, it's commonplace usage. I doubt anyone will object. We had better get a revised hook in with minimal further delay. If you approve of the new version, please submit it. Hertz1888 (talk) 02:10, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Why, Heinrich, that's an absolute (brain)wave you've had there. I bow down to you! I like the "new" husband because it carries an evil hint that she's sort of working through a sequence of them. Submitting forthwith. (198 characters -- (pictured) doesn't count) EEng (talk) 02:31, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

P.S. How do you feel about changing Eleanor Widener to E. Elkins Widener? For one thing it sounds more aristocratic, and for another, to the select few such as you and me Elkins Widener is significantly more evocative. EEng (talk) 02:48, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

If you ask me (and you did), this lily needs no gilding and is already well past good enough. Sometimes a brain-waive beats overcleverness. Since she probably never used "E. Elkins Widener", the name is likely bogus, too. Sorry, Charlie. Hertz1888 (talk) 03:06, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Leave it to Heinrich Hertz to make a "Star-Kist Tunah" reference. I will respect your opinion, wrongheaded and narrowminded though it is. 04:33, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Can the backtalk, if you can. <laughing> Hertz1888 (talk) 05:19, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Now THERE's a sentence

I just had to try it. [25] EEng (talk) 11:30, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

In the pipeline

Our baby will appear at 1am Wednesday [26]. I'm going to make a pass over Widener Library right now. Alexander H. Rice, Jr. and Harry Elkins Widener could use some work too if you have some time. EEng (talk) 22:59, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't, but will at least give them quick reviews anyway. On EEW, I think you would be better than I at making that footnote with the conflicting DOB refs. in it. Weds. 1 am? That's tonight already. So quickly! OB (really much more yours than mine) should do very well in terms of drawing interest from a wide audience. It has a lot going for it, espec. compared with the general run of DYKs I've seen on the main page. Hertz1888 (talk) 23:43, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, a hook with Titanic + cannibals certainly has something for the entire family -- too bad we've no photo of Mrs. Widener in her (pearl-encrusted?) pith helmet. I'll take care of the DOB thing. If you can just proof HEW and AHR for anything obvious that would be great. My top priority for now is to add something to the Library article re the HEW Collection.

As I do this I'm reminded that I had merged the HEW and Library articles about a year ago, and some poopy Harvard snot gave me a lecture about how the library "deserves" its own article, and reverted. But really, they make much more sense together -- for example, where would the Harry Elkins Widener Collection be better discussed? In the Library article? In the HEW article? But that's for another time. 00:07, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

At least they should be mutually linked (probably already are). Hertz1888 (talk) 00:15, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Eleanor Elkins Widener

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:03, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

EEW 13000; HEW 2000; HEW Mem Lib 500; Titanic sinking 2700; AHR Jr. 120 Note the # for Titanic Sinking is as much as half the # it got on the recent anniversary of the sinking itself. Good work, my man! EEng (talk) 04:56, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

And good for you! Those are impressive numbers. I knew we had a winner; 13,000 (and counting) ain't bad...for a couple of amateurs. That one might be hard to top, and the 2700 is remarkable. What's next, I wonder. Hertz1888 (talk) 06:22, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I keep kicking myself that I forgot all about DYK when creating Charles R. Apted. Imagine...

Did you know ... that "Harvard Cop #1" Charles R. Apted identified the dynamite-wielding intruder who had shot J. P. Morgan, Jr. as wife-poisoner, US Senate bomber, and deranged former German instructor Erich Muenter?

Harry Elkins Widener Memorial Libaray has great DYK potential, but I don't see how to get anywhere near the 5x expansion in the requisite time. The secret to DYK is to starve the article, or maybe casually cut it a stub, then expand it privately before suddenly installing it live. Then it can appear on the Main Page in no time, full of errors because no other editors have participated in developing it! It make so much sense to encourage editors to make huge additions to articles at breakneck speed!

Anyway... {{Did you know nominations/Jean Berko Gleason}}, which should be good (perhaps with a fair-use image, and likely with a different hook). EEng (talk) 22:38, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Actually, turns out I got the HEW and the HEW Mem Lib numbers confused above (now corrected). EEng (talk) 00:25, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Here's a thought

Did you know... that the Widener Slasher [something, something -- I'm actually having a hard time finding anything good, and there's little amusing about it either]

• [27]
• [28]
• [29]
• [30]
• [31]

EEng (talk) 06:22, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Guestbook

Do you mind to sign my guestbook? Thanks! Cheers!-- Allied Rangoon‧talk 21:06, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

The message under this one, GRUMBLE COPYCAT. I’m not very happy! JK! Cheers!-- Allied Rangoon‧talk 19:40, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Nothing new under the sun

As I said, [32]. For example, [33]. Maybe he'll come down off his high horse. EEng (talk) 22:38, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

And maybe not. If not, there must be an appeals process. WP:AFD won't do, because the primary issue is how WL should be titled, not whether the redirect should be deleted to make way for it. I don't know what the next step should be, but maybe you do. There are other administrators, of course. And yes, it harks back to the nothing new sentiment. Cheers. Hertz1888 (talk) 04:01, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Let's wait and see. Listen, I'm beginning to think that 5x for HEW Mem Lib is within striking distance but we'll have to hurry since we're just about at 5 days now (God, these are the stupidest rules...). If you have time (and I know you might not) you could help by contributing the flabbiest blurb you can manage on "Collections" -- you know, "Widener's collections blah blah, especially strong blah blah. Also housed in the Widener building, but formally separate from blah blah, are such special collections as the Child Memorial blah and blah." If you feel especially productive you might also delve into "By the 1930s the rate of expansion of the collection meant that blah blah decentralization blah music library, science library, blah. New England Deposit Library, Harvard Depository blah." I need elaborate no further. We need about 4-5K more characters (oh, GOD, these rules are stupid!) and that should be good for 1-2K easy, and can probably be based on 1 or 2 sources. See this search and this stuff. Again, I realize this may not be possible for you. EEng (talk) 16:42, 4 May 2014 (UTC) P.S. Despite myself I can't suppress a laugh at the title: [34].

You surmise correctly. I have deadline pressure elsewhere for a few days and meanwhile cannot do justice to such research. As apparently the DYK can't wait, let me suggest that you do what you can on the expansion, and count on me for the usual proofreading and checkup. I am shocked by the Crimson article, not just its title. How times have changed. The local Brahmins always put great emphasis on breeding, but I don't think this is what they had in mind. Hertz1888 (talk) 04:33, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Anyone who can come up with that breeding pun cannot pretend to be shocked by the Crimson headline. Yes, just keep an eye out, that's fine. DYK is so backed up I don't think anyone's gonna be counting the days. EEng (talk) 07:25, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

If I may, let me suggest a substitute task which can be carried out quite casually. The DRK would be immeasurably enhanced by a photo of the stacks -- something exactly like this [35] -- but I can't find anything free of copyright. Somewhere someone probably has such a thing on flickr or whathaveyou, but I've looked with no success. Perhaps when you're bored you could entertain yourself trying your hand at it. It needs to actually be Widener, of course. EEng (talk) 17:21, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Many quite wonderful photos here, in a huge collection, but not one of the stacks that I could find, though I may have missed it. Searched until the browser overloaded and balked. Is it possible the library itself or HU press office could provide a stacks photo? Hertz1888 (talk) 05:24, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, I get "No matches for 'Widener Library' " when I click the link -- what kind of game are you trying to play here, anyway?

In the past (shocked to say) I've had bad luck with the News Office, which responded to my request for release of this [36] absolutely perfect photo with, "We regret that we cannot release the photo under a Creative Commons license, since it is copyrighted by the President and Fellows of Harvard University" -- suggesting that there was some unclearness-on-the-concept in play. I did think that, in this case, I might go straight to the HUL or HCL folks, and now you're encouraged me to tray that. I must say I'm tickled by how it's shaping up. Next step: An outline of the dedication choreography. ("Meanwhile Mrs. Widener, who had discretely made her way into the building through its rear entrance...") EEng (talk) 06:22, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

No game. I don't know why the link didn't work. Tested again & had no trouble with it. The equivalent is to use this and search for < Widener Library >; yields hundreds of items. One link I do not recommend for WP research is this; probably not a RS anyway. So long for now. Hertz1888 (talk) 07:04, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Hertz1888. You have new messages at Malik Shabazz's talk page.
Message added 16:01, 4 May 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Check

Could you check my added edit on Daughters of Liberty? I wrote this request big so Hertz1888 can see it enormous and lucid! Hee hee! Cheers!-- Allied Rangoon‧talk 00:19, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

 Done No need for the big type and boldface. My eyesight is very good. Hertz1888 (talk) 04:25, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Chill man just joking! Thanks for revising my edit. Cheers!-- Allied Rangoon‧talk 20:36, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

DYK idiocy strikes again

I kept it in the fridge so it's still pretty fresh.

Could you lend a hand here? [37] EEng (talk) 23:48, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

 Done. Hertz1888 (talk) 06:31, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the loan. EEng (talk) 07:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

This is how you repay me? Shades of what's his name. Hertz1888 (talk) 07:57, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Why didn't I think of that? On a somewhat related note (re my enduring hobby) see the best of the school projects ever -- and (trust me) I've seen scores. BTW perhaps you saw [38], in which your humble elucubrator is mentioned. EEng (talk) 08:26, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Please keep an eye on HEWML DYK lest I strangle this guy. EEng (talk) 05:45, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

It could be counterproductive to lose your cool. We don't need any stranglings here. Or tamping irons. Hertz1888 (talk) 14:30, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry to see one of the most appealing, "human interest" stories stuck in a footnote (E). Hertz1888 (talk) 14:50, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Oh, NOW you say that! I don't know why I keep forgetting that people like that actually exist. Bluemoonset has a good head on his shoulders, so when he's back maybe sanity will prevail. EEng (talk) 15:02, 24 May 2014 (UTC) P.S. I hope I made sense re the merging of the two cite callouts into the notes -- or was there some other point you were making that I'm missing? Ah, I see. I felt that the marriage was just enough out of the main flow of narrative to belong in a note, but you have easily persuaded me that it can be a bit of spice for the main text. EEng (talk) 15:02, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. Glad to see it restored. For a while there you had me wondering if EW was a beauty or a utility. Hertz1888 (talk) 15:05, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

She was functional as well as decorative. EEng (talk) 15:34, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps a bit of a battle-axe, too. [39] EEng (talk) 20:50, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Why the f--- do I bother?? (he asked rhetorically) [40] EEng (talk) 04:07, 25 May 2014 (UTC) Hey -- did you hear the fire commissioner on Wednesday?

Unintentionally hilarious juxtaposition

See [41]

'Nonetheless certain deficiencies were noted almost immediately, including a severe inadequacy in toilet facilities, particularly in the stacks.[13]:59 "There is something rather humiliating", wrote Harvard librarian Archibald Cary Coolidge, "in having to proclaim to the world that we have three hundred stalls in the new library...

One may forgive the reader for wondering how three hundred stalls could possibly prove inadequate.

BTW, I want you to know that the fact that the bulk of our communications in recent months have involved some kind of bodily function is mere coincidence. I'm not some kind of sicko or something. EEng (talk) 07:25, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

You're not? Oh, no, you're not. But you have to quit stalling. Hertz1888 (talk) 01:26, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014

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Grand Central Terminal

Hello...I would like to change the image on Grand Central...sorry if this is not the place to post. Of course, I don't want an edit war. Hudson11377 (talk) 10:21, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Grand Central Terminal would be the proper place to discuss it and seek consensus for the change if you choose to pursue it. Judging by the edit summaries and other discussions to date, however, consensus is lacking.

You've been given abundant good guidance by "BMK". Please heed his advice and work carefully within the established WP policies (which include editing in a collaborative spirit). I really don't want to see you get in trouble for disruptive editing. Hertz1888 (talk) 11:01, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Hudson11377

Before you get involved in a long discussion with this editor, you might want to look at the "Images" thread on my talk page, and take a moment to look at all the messages I posted to him on his talk page trying to explain BRD etc. BMK (talk) 10:30, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. You seem to have covered the situation quite fairly and thoroughly and been very generous with your time. Thank you. Hertz1888 (talk) 11:09, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I cannot thank you enough

Though as you will have seen in the last few seconds, I tried. EEng (talk) 02:18, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

My pleasure. Besides, it was time to get the "el" out of there. (Old saying: Who is a true hero? One who can resist making a wisecrack.) Seriously, you're the one who does nearly all the heavy lifting. I hope it is adequately appreciated. Hertz1888 (talk) 02:28, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

For reasons seen most recently at DYK, I've learned to settle for ars gratia artis. EEng (talk) 01:27, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, then, some exercise for you

Here's some moderate lifting you might try. Perhaps you will succeed where I've failed. I've got a line to someone at Widener who may be able to supply a stacks photo like we talked about before. But I'd dearly love to also have the cutaway-elevation image, seen below-right of the big image here [42], except (a) its quality is too poor, and (b) we need a source from which to establish free use. The little link below it is dead, but most of this site's other links are live, so I think that the source page much be somewhere, if we could only find it. Perhaps you can poke around for a better copy? EEng (talk) 01:27, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

It would be nice to have. Tried at some length and couldn't find it, but did find this site—definitely worthwhile exploring throughly. One link there is to a vast (not half vast) collection of photos, one showing students in the stacks, another a student in a study stall (don't let your studies stall). There are items in the collection not reproduced online that would require a personal visit. (Likewise, the cutaway drawing may be in Philadelphia.) I'm needed elsewhere now. Happy hunting and see you. Hertz1888 (talk) 02:01, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Good work. I'd run into that page before, but had overlooked its treasures.

• Can you point me specifically to the stacks and stalls photos? (Comment added later: or is this one of the things you're saying you only see a ref to -- not the actual image?)
• Are you saying you found a specific ref to (or general idea of where to find) the cutaway view, or something like it, on paper?

EEng (talk) 06:56, 28 May 2014 (UTC) P.S. Excuuuuuuse me [43]

Click here and scroll way down. Widener folder 10 has both photos. Also see (espec.) folders 24-27. As for the cutaway view, no specific ref. Who knows what lurks in folder V.36:56 here? Hertz1888 (talk) 07:27, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Hold thy tongue, fool! Speakest thou not the name of the forbidden folder! Um... forsooth! EEng (talk) 07:48, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately some of the best pix e.g. students in the stacks, are post-1923 so still in copright. I did get a pretty good stacks-aisle photo from it though. This is such a fascinating subject -- infinite, like the library itself -- and at every stage it gives windows into the times. One of the things your link led me to was this (Metcalf was the decentralizer -- built Lamont and Houghton to relieve Widener etc.) Not stated there, of course, is what you need to make sense of his comment re graduate reserves i.e. Lamont didn't admit women, though Widener did. Did you notice in that 2nd-floor plan the little "Radcliffe reading room" just north of the east stacks? Fascinating. I also love Metcalf's narrative of what a typical Harvard economist might need to consult in the course of a day -- a little Shakespeare, a little Apocrypha... EEng (talk) 10:09, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I have a mind to call the Hist Soc of Penn and ask them to take a peek for me. What's interesting is the ref to "Widener Memorial Hall – Harvard University" and that it's a "small drawing" -- that suggests to me it might have been a early preliminary sketch, which would be fun to see. Somewhere it was narrated that a team came to Cambridge and within a week returned to Penn to show Mrs. EEW fairly detailed sketches. "This was while the gift was still pending" this source said, as I recall i.e. no $ until she likes what she sees, just as President ALL wrote. EEng (talk) 11:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Mayflower

Thanks for your help! When I created that section I used subsection titles which looked too large: main deck, gun deck, gun deck armanent, etc. Then I overcompensated by taking out not only size but boldness. Looks much better now. Mugginsx (talk) 17:57, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Happy to apply and pass along some of the little tricks I have learned. Thanks for your in-depth work on the article. Hertz1888 (talk) 21:38, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Thankyou. Mugginsx (talk) 11:03, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Jean Berko Gleason

If you're looking for something to do, and don't mind some grunt work... there's a long bibliography in the above article that needs some regularization, quick lookover for obvious problems, put in alpha order. This is in the queue for DYK and there's been an idiotic fight over it which is now resolved Template:Did you know nominations/Jean Berko Gleason, and now I've got about a week to pull it into shape before mainpage appearance. There's much to do on the article itself -- needs a really good copyedit -- and if you'd give at least a superficial going-over to the bibliog that would be one less thing to distract me. I have to say, though, that honestly the bibliog isn't a priority -- wouldn't be a disaster if it went to DYK as it is, but it's something someone other than I can do which wouldn't conflict with my work on the rest of the article.

BTW there are refs/citations separate from the bibliography, but don't worry about those now, because (again) those are generated by < ref> in the main text, which I'll be working on (in my sandbox, currently). If you feel inspired to put all the bibliog entries into cite templates instead of raw hard text as they are now, that would be fantastic, but again, I'm only asking you to do what you feel like doing, and if that's zero that's fine. EEng (talk) 17:22, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't take it on other than to do a routine mechanical checkup. Glad to see Widener got a good review (a tribute to your persistence) and evidently won't need much attention to be good to go for DYK. Hertz1888 (talk) 17:42, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Widener Library

Materialscientist (talk) 00:04, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Doctor Willard Bliss

Could you explain why a person named Doctor who later "earned the title Doctor" is more far-fetched than any of the other entries on Aptronym? Barry Commoner's explanation seems much more removed, as well as Eiichi Goto's. 8ty3hree (talk) 05:46, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

I missed that, because it's not at all clear without following the link that he was a doctor whose given name was Doctor. That needs to be stated, not the Garfield connection. The latter is a distraction and I could see nothing apt in it. Hertz1888 (talk) 05:58, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. I've made the explanation simpler. 8ty3hree (talk) 06:54, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Thoreau

Re https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_David_Thoreau&oldid=612949903&diff=prev: thanks; you have a good point; I was getting lazy in addressing what seems to me such an obvious error and hoping another Wikipedia would do the proper work. I'll do it myself. :) —President Lethe (talk) 00:05, 15 June 2014 (UTC)