User talk:JackofOz/Archive 27

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Archive 20

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A Hero's Life

What ho, Jack! I am on a round-robin brain-picking mission of English-speaking music lovers, in re A Hero's Life. I posted a suggestion on the article talk page back in April to the effect that as orchestras, Grove, record companies, concert promoters and all comers refer to the piece as "Ein Heldenleben" it would make sense if WP followed suit. Since then no-one has added any comment, pro or con. I have bet myself a modest sum that you won't agree with me on this, but be that as it may I'd be interested, if you have a few minutes, to see your comments on the suggestion. Tim riley (talk) 14:12, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning up

Re: this edit,

Thank you for cleaning up the article my shocking work! :) --Qwerty Binary (talk) 10:52, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013

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decade, Kmit was a major influence on many artists, particularly those of the [[Merioola Group]] (sometimes disparagingly referred to as the "Sydney Charm School".<ref>The name "The Sydney Charm

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] wrote the score (see ''[[The Gadfly Suite]]''). Along with some other excerpts, the ''[Romance'' movement has since become very popular. Shostakovich's ''Gadfly'' theme was also used in
*''An Interrupted Friendship'' ([[Russian language|Russian]] ''Ovod v Izgnanii'' (meaning "The Gadfly in exile") (1910)

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Rename to "Recipients of the Star of the Solomon Islands"

I agree. How do you rename a category? Pdfpdf (talk) 14:53, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

BTW: In general, how long does the process usually take? Pdfpdf (talk) 12:25, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Talkback from Miss Bono

Hello, JackofOz. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013_August_15#statement_that_Adam_Clayton_or_Bono_made_after_they_kissed.3F.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Please, reply at my talk page. Miss Bono^[zootalk] 19:45, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I thought you were telling me to stop linking users with the actual format on their usernames, like this: Miss Bono. I was just trying to ping you. How can I ping users, to draw their attention?? {{ping|Miss Bono}}, {{U|Miss Bono}} or [[User:Miss Bono]]? Please, understand I didn't do it on purpose. You'll see, I receive a notification when user use the latest, and that way I know when they want to draw my attention in some particular issue. So, please, tell me what I am doing wrong? Thanks and sorry. Miss Bono^[zootalk] 20:20, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

TB again

Hello, JackofOz. You have new messages at Yintan's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Miss Bono

You are dealing with a young woman 19 years old with sensitive feelings who lives in Cuba, a country that has severe internet censorship. She has no access to Google, YouTube or any of the research tools that you and I take for granted. She is fortunate to have access to Wikipedia through a controlled intranet at her place of work. She came to the reference desk a few weeks ago asking for information about a specific on-stage interaction between members of the rock band U2. You directed her to a YouTube video that she thought might have an answer to her question. Instead, it was a Monty Python routine. ~~Nice start, sending her on a lengthy goose chase.~~

On April 30, 2013, the new WP:NOTIFICATIONS software, code named "Echo" was rolled out for Wikipedia users. I attended a workshop at the Wikimedia Foundation offices in San Francisco where these features were explained and discussed with many experienced editors. This is designed to augment rather than replace the watchlist. Linking to usernames when they are mentioned in conversation, as Miss Bono has done with you and many other users, is an integral part of Echo. Such notifications are commonly called "pinging", and there is even a template {{ping}} for this purpose. Software changes and changes in editor interaction can be difficult for some editors like you to accept. But she has been trying to use Echo as it was designed, and in good faith.

But how have you responded, after giving her the ~~completely~~ ~~unhelpful~~ YouTube ~~link that distracted her for no reason~~? You have gone to her talk page not once, but five times, to ~~berate~~ criticize her for using Echo as designed. You insist in bold that she stop. ~~To me, it looks like you are being pushy, domineering and rude~~. If you don't like Echo, then turn it off in your preferences. Or go to its talk page and protest. Or interact with the WMF developers who wrote the software. But for goodness sake, do not come down like a ton of bricks on a good faith editor trying to use a new interaction tool. Instead, why not try to give her an actual answer to the reference desk question ~~you blew off with a joke a couple of weeks ago?~~ Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:19, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh my, that's really something. Where to begin? Let's start at the beginning.

I know little about the singer Bono, and I had never even heard of Adam Clayton before Miss Bono asked the question headed "statement that Adam Clayton or Bono made after they kissed?". Obviously, I had no credentials to even attempt to get involved in the question. So I didn't. Until Miss Bono said she did not understand what another editor, User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM, had said earlier on in the thread. Because I now knew exactly what his reference was about, I helpfully provided the link to Bruces' Philosophers Song and a youtube video showing the sketch from which it came. Today, fifteen days later, Miss Bono asked me what was in the video, and I told her, on her own talk page as she requested. Do you see any hanging offences so far? No, I thought not.

Maybe I could have remembered that she has previously advised she has no access to the internet apart from Wikipedia, and not put her to the trouble of asking what was in the video. But you know something? I do not keep mental dossiers of every WP editor who crosses my path, and I have other wiki-activities and RL-activities on my plate. I have absolutely nothing to apologise for in regard to my involvement in that thread.

What possible purpose your opening with Miss Bono's age and the fact that she has sensitive feelings, I cannot imagine. How do you know she has sensitive feelings? What makes you think I don't? Are we supposed to mollycoddle every editor who is said to have "sensitive feelings"? Where is the list of such editors? I see you address her as Laura; this suggests you've had off-wiki interactions with Miss Bono and have some insight into her circumstances that the rest of us have to get along without.

But this special consideration you seem to be advocating is very wrong-headed. I treat ALL editors, not to mention all RL-people, with respect, courtesy, fairness, compassion and, yes, where the occasion demands, plain talking. If you think such treatment should be reserved for your personal friends and denied to others, as you've manifestly denied it to me, I feel very sorry for you. I've been on WP for coming on 10 years and been a Reference Desk Regular for about 9 years (but it's a fairly small component of my wiki activities). You will search the archives of WP:ANI in vain for any mention of my name. I don't think I've ever even visited it (don't hold me to that), but I certainly have never had my editorial behaviour brought into question in the way in which you have sought to do here today. And I am not about to cop it now.

You wrote: "You have gone to her talk page not once, but five times, to berate her for using Echo as designed".

I say: "Wrong, wrong and wrong!!!"

On 15 August, I went there to ask her, politely:

(a) not to link other editors' names using their own non-default signature format, because it looks like she's effectively trying to forge their signatures. I know that is probably the furthest thing from her mind, but perceptions matter rather a lot, and I was trying to, again helpfully, avoid her attracting unwanted trouble; and
(b) not to wikilink other editors' usernames at all, but if really necessary, just to use the default format, and I showed her what I meant.

This was a totally courteous and polite and reasonable request, and one that I think any sensible person would support. It had absolutely nothing to do with Echo. Miss Bono responded positively on my talk page, and said she would refrain. She did make some reference to "pinging". That meant nothing to me, so I just moved on. Only now, with 20-20 hindsight, am I able to understand what she meant by that.

So, that's one (1) approach from me to Miss Bono on this issue. The only other one was today, and that makes two (2). I reminded her of her earlier agreement, and I carefully and politely explained why I feel the practice of linking other users' usernames is bordering on offensive. Yes, I used strong language when I insisted Miss Bono stop linking at least my username, and that's because I feel strongly about the matter. But it wasn't abusive or incivil language. When you ask someone nicely to stop doing something you really dislike, and they immediately agree to stop, but they don't stop, how do you react?

A conversation ensued in which two other editors also became involved. Only two of my posts were directed at Miss Bono, the opening one and the next one. The others were the side conversation with the third-party editors. You cannot count all my posts in that one thread as separate instances of my supposed "berating" of Miss Bono. For my money, it was a civil conversation and no berating occurred.

In any case, my beef was NEVER about Echo, as I've tried to explain again and again. But it seems my words are just not getting through the blinkers worn by the judgmental among us. I'll say it again: My beef with Miss Bono was NEVER about Echo. How could it have been, when:

(a) I had no idea until today that the wikilinking of other users' names, which I am so averse to, has anything to do with that system,
(b) I had never heard the term "Echo" until today, and
(c) Miss Bono is the only user I've ever come across who is doing this. If it's something we're all encouraged to be doing now, the message sure as hell isn't getting through.

It's nice that you were able to attend a briefing about Echo, but 99.9999999% of WP editors weren't so lucky. I actually don't even live in the same continent as San Francisco is situated in. What purpose your telling me of your good fortune in this regard, I cannot imagine. But if you're suggesting others are somehow supposed to just psychically and osmotically tap into your brain and memory cells and instantly know what you know about stuff, I have news for you. Can you guess what it is?

So, please withdraw in its entirety your baseless attack on me, and please withdraw your gutless smear at User talk:Miss Bono#The previous thread: "The answer you got from this editor at the Reference Desk on August 19 was worthless".

Thank you. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 10:34, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Hey! Please, please... Don't get me wrong Jack... I explained to you that the first time you told me to stop I thought you meant that I should stop copying the signatures (including their fromat), like this: Cullen³²⁸, instead of Cullen328, and the second time you told (explained) to me what was it about... I understood you and told you I was going to stop. Now, can you both stop arguing (or whatever you spell this word). I didn't want to cause such a mess for a tiny little thing. Now, please... can we forget about all this? Thank you very much. Miss Bono^[zootalk] 12:16, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Miss Bono. You and I have always had civil interactions, but our dealings have unfortunately become the sideshow. The main event now is the above outrage from User:Cullen328. I appreciate he is defending/protecting you from what he perceives to be me attacking you. I can respect that kind of stance as far as it goes, but he has gone totally overboard and made a pile of accusations about me that have no truth whatsoever, and I have asked him to withdraw them. I hope he does so very soon, as I'm going on a 6-day wikibreak in less than 12 hours time. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 12:56, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that Cullen didn't want to offend you. He was protecting me, he is my mentor and my friend, and I am always happy to see that he is covering my back. I have some language understanding problems because English is not my first language and therefore I usually mess things up when trying to explain myself. Cullen always tries to fix my messes and expalin my language and Internet limitations to people (which are my biggest obstacles in Wikipedia) and I am really really really grateful for that; he has taught me almost everything I know and how to deal with other users and also taught me not to get stressed when I get stuck at some point, or when I disagree with someone or vice versa. I owe Cullen a lot...

Sorry again for the misunderstanding, Jack. And I hope we still have civil interactions in the future. Miss Bono^[zootalk] 13:11, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, he clearly wrote it in anger, which is always unwise. No salutation, no valediction, no courtesy, but heaps of sarcasm and wild exaggeration and leaping to completely wrong conclusions without once checking with me. I'd have thought mentors have a special responsibility to lead by example, because otherwise it's a case of "Do as I say, not what I do", and if that's the behaviour they're modelling, they shouldn't be too surprised if their mentees (?) do the same.

But look, I would never want to come between a user and their mentor, particularly where they have the degree of mutual respect you two seem to have. In a sense, this current matter is only incidentally about you, Miss Bono; the real issue is how people treat one another and communicate with one another. How much crap the recipient is prepared to take is an inverse measure of their self-respect. In this case, that line got crossed in Cullen's 1st paragraph above, and he then went on to cross it a few more times. Not OK, but I'm sure he and I can sort this out between ourselves. Cheers. I'm off to bed. Got a long trip tomorrow. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 13:46, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

You two are civil persons, so I think you can sort this out between yourselves. Have a good trip. See you. Miss Bono^[zootalk] 13:50, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

JackofOz, I have redacted the strongest of my criticisms as you have requested. I choose not to respond point by point, as I believe that would be counterproductive. All I will say is that I trust that a neutral observer can see who lost their temper here. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:18, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Don't you think you should strike the word "unhelpful" as well, Cullen? In the thread Jack linked to, Miss Bono twice asked for an explanation of Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM's convoluted wacky post which obviously looks cryptic to someone who isn't familiar with his references. Part of an explanation had been given. Jack provided another part with a link to a specific article on one of the things Cookatoo was alluding too. Referring to Python isn't uncommon on Wikipedia in general or the reference desks in particular. Didn't giving a link to an article, as well as an audiovisual clip, help both answer Miss Bono's (side-)question as well as possibly introduce her to one of the most relevant acts of the entire Anglophone world during the past 4 decades? I have no idea about television satire and sketches in the Spanish-speaking world, and would be grateful for this kind of help, if I were trying to get to know the Hispanophone world a bit better. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:53, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I have done as you requested, Sluzzelin. Please keep in mind that she came to the Reference Desk for information about U2, not about Monty Python. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:30, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Cullen. This means something to me, as I've experienced Jack as a consistently helpful, witty, and reasonable colleague at the desks. At the same time, we do have a problem of respondents immediately adding jokes or going on unrelated tangents, but I've never seen Jack in that league of unhelpfulness. True, it wasn't the question Miss Bono had asked initially, but if the original poster sidetracks the question when it comes to comprehension, even if what she's trying to comprehend is in itself a sidetrack, then I think it is nothing but considerate to respond to her follow-ups. Anyway, thanks again, I really appreciate it. ---Sluzzelin talk 20:18, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

@ Cullen328: Thanks for the redactions, as far as they go.

I don't want to prolong this either, but there is still the matter of the totally false claims that:

I raised the matter with Miss Bono 5 times: Wrong, it was twice, as I explained above.
The matter I raised was her use of Echo: Wrong. As far as I was concerned, it had nothing to do with Echo, as I explained above.
I criticised her: Yes, but for not doing what I believed she had agreed not to do after I had asked her nicely. I now understand where our mismatch in understanding came from, but I acted in totally good faith at the time

You're still requiring me to answer her original question about Bono kissing Adam Clayton.

(a) As I explained, I have no credentials to be able to answer that question, which is why I have left it to more knowledgeable editors.
(b) I am not personally responsible for answering all questions ever raised on the Ref Desk. I do what I can.
(c) What I did do was to answer her side question about Cookatoo’s remarks, as well as a follow up question from her about it. That deserves acknowledgment and credit, if anything. It certainly does not deserve any sort of criticism, and I reiterate my refusal to apologise for it. I know in whose direction apologies should be flowing here. I leave that for your conscience. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:12, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Hello, JackofOz, I wish now that I had approached you initially with a more diplomatic and respectful attitude, and that I had given you the opportunity to explain rather that presuming poor behavior on your part. For that, I apologize, and I will strive to do better with my interactions with other editors in the future.

You made five comments on her talk page about this matter, all discussing variations of the same point, to Miss Bono and also to two other editors who commented there. You are entitled to see this as two contacts rather than five, and I accept your interpretation of that matter.

Your concerns about her editing behavior primarily involved her linking to your username when she mentions you. This is her general practice in recent months, and I use the technique myself quite often at the Teahouse. You are the first to have objected. There is no need to discuss whether this is called "Notifications" or "Echo" or "pinging". It is now clear to all concerned that you dislike this practice quite intensely. It is also clear that it is an accepted means of editor interaction supported by templates and the software. I pledge never to use this interaction technique with you, and I think that Miss Bono is also now well aware of your strong feelings on the matter. I am sorry that this has been irritating to you.

Thank you for acknowledging that there were levels of interpretation on this matter. She initially thought that what you objected to was a form of linking, or "pinging" that duplicated your signature typographically. She did not initially understand that you object to all linking of your username. I was impatient with you after reading the thread on her talk page, and I have now apologized. Might you consider the possibility that you were a bit impatient with her as well? There is no need for you to answer this question unless doing so appeals to you in some way.

When I said "why not try to give her an actual answer" I did not intend to state or imply at all that I was "requiring" you to do so. Of course, I have no such power. My intent (clumsy in hindsight) was to point out that she went to the Reference Desk to get information about a specific incident in U2's career, and instead got information about a famous Monty Python bit. Looking back on it, I see now that you were intending to clarify the somewhat strange remarks of another editor. However, both Miss Bono and I assumed when first reading the thread that the YouTube link you furnished related to the U2 question. So let me be clear: I do not see that you are required to address this inquiry any further in any way. We are both volunteers here, freely able to choose which work we do here, and which work we pass up.

I hope that I have addressed your questions satisfactorily. If not, let me know, and I will do my best to elaborate. I bid you peace. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your gracious reply, Cullen328. No more need be said, save that in hindsight I accept that my use of the word "insist" and my bolding of it were injudicious, and if I had my time over I'd have said something less controversial. Go well. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 07:24, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I very much appreciate your most recent remark. Thank you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:19, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Vandalizing your page

Thanks, and thanks for your support above.

Wish me luck as you wave me goodbye ...... -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:15, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

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Stanley Bruce FA Nomination

Hi JackofOz,

You seem to be a fairly knowledgeable and active Wikipedian interested in Australian history pages, and you've taken interest before in some of the discussion on the Stanley Bruce page previously. Well its now been through a fair bit of peer review to try and get to FA status, and it is almost there but its nomination to FA status just needs a few more supporting votes to get it over the line. If you were so inclined and wanted to have a look over it and add your support, or review/criticism if it needs more work, that would be really helpful! Thanks, Unus Multorum (talk) 13:35, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Father of the Australian Senate

Ron Boswell retires on 30 June next year. Who's his successor as Father of the Senate? Paul Austin (talk) 18:15, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Looking at the Term Commenced column here, it seems to be John Faulkner. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:37, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

And should Phillip Ruddock fall under a bus or resign, this tells me that ~~Bruce Scott and Warren Truss would become joint Fathers of the House of Reps. But if all 3 of them retire in 2016, as I suspect is likely, Kevin Andrews would be the Father. That's a surprise.~~ -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:41, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Laurie Ferguson? Frickeg (talk) 02:48, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

I stand corrected. I must have been thinking of his brother. Sorry. I'll shut up now. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 03:08, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Hope!

Hope everything is good between me and you. Miss Bono^[zootalk] 21:59, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. All is good. Go well. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:18, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

:D you too Miss Bono^[zootalk] 13:00, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Ooops, I have been busy lately saving the local galaxy from the extraterrestrial Trolls and missed some minor skirmishes on the WP homefront. I apologise if my silly jokes on U2 in response to Ms Bono have caused some controversy and / or confusion.

How fortunate that this is not a real reference desk where wizened librarian sages mutter cryptic oracles to credulous OPs. Were it so, many of us would be draped across blood splattered tomes of ancient manuscripts whilst the forensic gurus try to solve yet another ghastly homicide in the crumbly ivory towers of presenile omniscience.

Mind you, I am only extrapolating and would never wish to imply that youngsters like you have succumbed to the trials and tribulations of existential misery.

Greetings from Vienna to Down Under. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 10:32, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

SPI

Is it worth probing into User:Shelbywelch and User:Emundt6 for an SPI? Seems like duck material to me, but maybe not worth the trouble. Shadowjams (talk) 03:31, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Honorary and so on

What ho, Jack! I chuckled at your contribution to User talk:Mogism##Honourary to Honorary. I have made a private bet with myself that some well-meaning ninny to whom "irony" means "rather like iron" will object. Be that as it may, your sly addition gave great pleasure here. – Tim riley (talk) 20:00, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Ref desk outburst

You were absolutely right to hat my outburst with HiLo at the ref desk yesterday, and especially given our earlier discussion, and another outburst, I realize that I've been doing that way too often lately. I've been letting stress bleed over into my editing here and it's been unhelpful. Accordingly I'm taking some time to cool off of Wikipedia for a bit. I wanted to thank you for ending my pointless tangent and for your earlier comment. Whatever jocularness I described to you earlier this week (of which I was sincere) I did not sound like that yesterday. I thought you deserved an apology and a thanks for dealing with that unflattering moment of mine. Shadowjams (talk) 22:54, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Shadowjams. We all need a cooling-off break sometimes, and good on you for recognising the signs before it got out of control. Enjoy your time away and come back refreshed. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:00, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

		The Original Barnstar
		Thanks for being a positive influence on the ref desks over the past few years, and keeping a civil tone, even when I'm sure it tests your powers of restraint :) SemanticMantis (talk) 22:53, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Wow, thank you, Semantic Mantis. Yes, it is often challenging and I don't always contain myself. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:21, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) You are great! :) Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 11:54, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, stop it, you lot. You'll give me a big head. :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 13:28, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

That's a good thing, sometimes, as long as you don't become a megalomaniac :), seriously, you do a good job at the ref desk. Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 13:43, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Miss Bono. I appreciate it. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:45, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

:D Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 20:35, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

If you have time

Hello again Jack. If memory serves (and apologies if I am incorrect) you know the ins and outs of Knighthoods. Recently we have had a few changes at the Ben Kingsley article switching a CBE to a KBE. I have been reverting them (perhaps in error) since the changes do not come with a source. Would you mind checking on this. Perhaps you could also leave a hidden note explaining which honour is the correct one. Even if it doesn't stop other editors from changing things it will at least help me and any other editors who have his page on our watchlist to keep the correct version in place. If you don't have the time then please don't worry about it. Thanks and cheers. MarnetteD | Talk 20:00, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi MarnetteD. I've fixed the page and explained the situation as best I can on the talk page. Thanks for keeping an eye on this. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:34, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for taking care of this. Especially since I was reverting to the incorrect version! It will now be easy to point editors to the note that you left on the talk page when questions pop up. I appreciate your time and efforts. MarnetteD | Talk 20:39, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

666!

As one of a highly select international group, you are hereby invited to join me in celebrating my 666! (Let the games begin!) Pdfpdf (talk) 11:17, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Great achievement, O Dark Satanic Lord.

Stupid me, I was watching for my 999 recently, but got distracted and missed it by about a week. I make a habit of that sort of thing. A car I was driving was approaching 1,000,000 km and was getting ready to click over to 0 again. I'd never seen that before, and knew I probably never would again. As it was coming up, I kept my eye on it for days and days, and then one day I looked down and I was on 24 km or something. Totally missed the click over. Such is life. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 11:33, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

A question!

Hello Jack!,

I asked this, and Medies said I could ask you. What do you think? Tammy gave a response but I want second thoughts. Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 14:45, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Not much I can add, really. It would be very unusual for the male lead singer of a rock band to be a baritone or bass, so much so that it would be almost their calling card. Since Bono isn't known for that, plus given what Tammy pointed to, plus my own (limited) experience of Bono, I have no doubt he's a tenor. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:37, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Jack. Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 12:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome, MB. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 12:10, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh, by the way... I've added a couple of details for the restaurant question at the Misc RefDesk :D. Sorry the late response but I go to home by 16:30 and I have no Wiki Access at home. Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 12:23, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Time of day

Could you look at this and see if any action is warranted?--Wehwalt (talk) 00:45, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

What sort of action did u have in mind? If it's necessary to specify am/pm, which I'm sort of on the fence about here, it should be with the correct punctuation, which I think the latest edit provides. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

I just wanted to make sure that it was in the appropriate format under "Australian rules". I do not think the am pm necessary, personally, but do not feel inclined to intervene. Mr. Whitlam was not having his lunch at 1 a.m., after all.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:33, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

That's true, but that timeline doesn't become apparent till we get to that point. We start out at 9 o'clock, and given that high-powered crisis talks are often held at night, readers could easily assume it's 9 p.m. So I support that one. Whether we need to continue after that, I'm less wedded to. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 03:54, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough.--Wehwalt (talk) 04:27, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

this caused me some amusement, and has outraged your countrymen who read it for its ignorance, judging by the comments, in which I have joined with the name I troll under, though given my choice of avatar, I suspect my identity should be fairly obvious.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:27, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Yep, it's always interesting to see how aliens view and describe our goings on. They probably laugh and cringe just as much when the boot's on the other foot. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:23, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Putin once again

I recall some half decade back after a ploy by Putin, I ran into a friend and told her Он ещӭ Рас-Путин. She told me it was very funny, and never to repeat it to anyone. μηδείς (talk) 04:37, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

That's probably because ӭ is not a Russian letter. :)

But I like the concept. Thanks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 04:58, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

That's odd, my sight is worsening. Didn't realize that 'd made such a typo here. μηδείς (talk) 20:26, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

TL;DR

Hello, Jack! While I do agree that the contents of Nil Einne's post here [1] (and elsewhere that you also have commented) could have been expressed more succinctly, your comment [2] comes across rather patronizing and harsh, especially when posted on the reference desk itself. In my opinion this is user talk page material, and could have been said more gently. You have the mixed blessing of being a model editor. This means that negative comments from you may hurt more than negative comments from other editors. Please appreciate that this is friendly feedback from a fellow editor who greatly values your contributions, and wishes you all the best. --NorwegianBlue^talk 20:23, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your compliments, NorwegianBlue.

I accept what you say about it being better for the talk page. Yes, it could have been more gently expressed, but I chose my words carefully, and thought about them more than once before deciding to press Save. Sometimes, strong words are called for. I wasn't meaning to be harsh, much less patronizing, and I regret that you gained that impression.

I've been asking Nil Einne for quite some time now to stop his practice of presenting huge blocks of unformatted text containing his brain dumps, but to get to the point more concisely; and furthermore, to use paragraph breaks to make his contributions palatable to the eye.

He doesn't seem to understand that, when readers encounter a new post, they have an immediate visual impression even before they've read a single word of it, which informs their attitude to it from the outset. It is just too hard - for me, at least - to read his discursive adventures in making his point with the greatest number of words, rather than the smallest number of words. I've tried, for years, but I have now drawn a line in the sand and I won't read any more such things from him. This is sad, because he usually has things to say that are worth hearing, when we finally hack our way through the dense verbal undergrowth and into the clearing. But, like in a restaurant, the mind's food has to be presented in a visually appealing way, before we take our first mouthful. It may taste fantastic, but if it looks like crap, we won't even bother to pick up our knife and fork, and we'll never get to find out what it tastes like. That is where I'm at. The ball's in his court.

I'll be drawing Nil Einne's attention to the above. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:24, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Paparazzi

Jack I was reading a thread where you posted this:

There is no such thing as "a paparazzi", self-respecting or otherwise. A member of that profession is "a paparazzo". Or maybe "a paparazza" if a woman, but I've never heard that word.

I've heard paparazzi a lot of times. I think it is the plural for paparazzo. It is an Italian word. I might be wrong but, that's what I know. You can make online research for it, I cannot :D

Best! Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 19:05, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

That's exactly what I'm saying. The plural is "paparazzi", the singular is "paparazzo/a". The plural of any noun can't be used to refer to a single example, or vice-versa. We don't say "I enjoyed reading this books", or "I love all of Bono's song". So, there is no such thing as "a paparazzi", because "a" is a singular indefinite article while "paparazzi" is a plural noun. There is only "a paparazzo". But there are "some paparazzi" and "these paparazzi" and "many paparazzi" etc etc. I'm sure the same thing applies in Español. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:23, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. You cannot say Me gustan todas las canción de Bono. Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 19:38, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Splitting and slapping

I actually know and knew nothing about the origins of the no split infinitive rule until I read your post and, subsequently, the article you linked. I'd never slap your fretboard or wrist, nor would you deserve such violence. I just like being a Klugscheißer (like everyone else at the desks). ---Sluzzelin talk 22:13, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I always wanted another one of those ... ---Sluzzelin talk 22:30, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Bona dica

Thought you should be told, "bona dica" means "say (2nd sing imperative) good things". Bona being the neuter plural of bonus. (It could also mean, "Say the good feminine singular thing.") "Well" is bene. The most natural response would probably be, bene dixisti, "thou hast said well" or, "bene locutus es", thou hast spoken well. "Bene dictum" is also available as a very literal but not very natural translation, and sounds too much like benedictum, "blessed (neut. sing.)" In any case, bona dica is wrong and bene dixisti means what you want to say--someone else may have a better suggestion from literature if you post it on the lang desk. μηδείς (talk) 21:57, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I consider myself well and truly told. :) I allow myself somewhat more licence on edit summaries than I do on edits proper, so I wouldn't be getting too concerned that my standards are slipping. But I appreciate the feedback all the same. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:50, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Small correction; dic is the actual 2nd sing imperative. There is no such thing as dica in proper Latin. μηδείς (talk) 23:23, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Great. I'll keep 'dic' in mind for a suitable occasion. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:57, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, there was a little confusion there since "diga" is the polite singular imperative in Spanish, which comes from dicat, 3rd person subjunctive (not "dica") in Latin. Literally, "May your mercy say." I am curious, have you any training in any Romance languages? μηδείς (talk) 00:37, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh, yes. I did French and Latin in school. We moved from NSW to Qld when I was 13; it was August, and my new class been studying French all year (since late January), so I had quite some catching up to do. I studied hard, and came top of the class at the end of the year. I'd already done 2 years of Latin at my previous school, and continued at the new school. Why on Earth I went into medical lab technology, accountancy and mathematics, before finally realising that my true aptitude was in language, music and history ... well, some of us take longer than others. But I learned some great info along the way, so it's all good. My third attempt at a bachelors degree was in Mathematics, but half way through I said "fuck this" and went and enrolled in the Russian course. The uni rules allowed me to combine both streams in the same degree, but the title was "Bachelor of Arts in Modern Languages", although Russian was the only language I did at tertiary level.

Plus, I've learned a lot from a lifelong interest in opera, and classical music history, and a general interest in (particularly European) languages. I'm reasonably confident with my pronunciation of Polish, Czech, Serbian, German, Italian, French, Dutch, Spanish, Ukrainian, and knowing a smattering of words in all of them. Not so much Portuguese, Icelandic, Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Finnish, Romanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Greek, Albanian, Turkish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Swahili ............. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:20, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Sydney, etc.

Without giving too much personal information away, how are you (or are you) affected by that literal firestorm brewing near Sydney? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:20, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for asking, Mr Bugs. I'm a good (long) day's drive from Sydney/Blue Mountains. I'm in Gippsland, Victoria (see map). But I have family in Newcastle, Muswellbrook, Sydney, and the Southern Highlands, so they're all way more affected than I am. But none of them are in any danger. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:56, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Nobel Prize Renunciation

To the Nobel Prize Committee, Stockholm, Sweden:

I hereby renounce in advance any Nobel Prizes for which I may otherwise have been under consideration.
Many others are even more deserving than I.
-- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:49, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

While this is very Noble of you I am disappointed as I was looking forward to being in the audience to hear your acceptance speech :-( MarnetteD | Talk 22:50, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Life sucks sometimes. Shit happens. Get over it, get a life, move on.

I'm now thinking of retracting my renunciation, as I feel I ought to at least accept the inaugural Nobel Prize in Empathy, as a shining beacon for others to follow :) :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:45, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm an editor on Wikipedia - getting a life is not an option :-) Glad to see that you are reconsidering your position! MarnetteD | Talk 01:40, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

October 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Józef Elsner may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

* Mass in B-flat major and Mass in F major)

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 08:53, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Amused

I don't want to mention on the talk page of a venerated composer how delighted I am about the template with my name. You know that I wrote on Kafka ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:12, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Harry Chauvel

Henry G. Chauvel is the man's official name - I can pretty well guarantee that it isn't!
Harry is only a nickname - similar comment!

Is there any reason not to move the article back to his real name? Pdfpdf (talk) 06:22, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

No, there is not. I tried to revert it as soon as I saw it, but it needs someone with admin-like powers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:30, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Hmm. Unsurprisingly, I came to the same conclusion ... Oh well, despite the unnecessary "silliness" (I'm being polite) and drama, it now seems to be resolved. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:32, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Silly season? (Balderstone)

The infamous and ubiquitous "They" say that things come in threes. I hesitate to speculate on what the third one will be! Pdfpdf (talk) 12:32, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 13:28, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

key

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_HPgKQqjEk

This song is in G-flat major or E-flat minor ? 198.105.111.86 (talk) 12:34, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I think there are two keys in this song. 198.105.111.86 (talk) 14:16, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if you celebrate Halloween but... Happy Halloween!

	Hello JackofOz, Miss Bono has given you an lovely bat, to wish you a Happy Halloween! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a lovely bat! Enjoy!
	Spread the goodness of a lovely bat by adding {{subst:User:Miss Bono/Halloween}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Why, thank you, Miss Bono. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 17:09, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

No problem Jack! Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 17:12, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

E minor

The E minor makes you feel like killing myself too ? 198.105.111.86 (talk) 18:00, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

No, only E-flat minor has that effect on me. But I never go through with it. I reflect on Auguste Comte's parting words: What an irreparable loss!, and then go and edit Wikipedia. :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:49, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Me too, only the E-flat minor makes me sad. 198.105.111.86 (talk) 23:27, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_VShAURv74

But this song don't make me sad, maybe because of the beat. 198.105.111.86 (talk) 23:30, 31 October 2013 (UTC)