User talk:Tom Morris/Archive 28
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| Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 | Archive 28 | Archive 29 | Archive 30 | → | Archive 35 |
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This Month in GLAM: January 2014
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Wikidata weekly summary #97
- Discussions
- Reasonator
- By hovering over a wikilink you will see the first paragraph.
- The "personal settings" allow you to import your Babel info from Wikidata. This can be used to restrict the random items you will get.
- The first iteration of "on the fly" text generation for English. It works for "humans" and, is completely based on the available Wikidata information.
- You can now add labels in your language from within Reasonator. Technically oAuth is used. It now takes just one click to add a label in your language.
- Did you know?
- Newest properties: IAAF ID, Lagrangian point
- Showcase items: Vesta (Q3030)
- Development
- Wrote performance tests so we can track performance improvements better
- Did a code review of all gadgets that are enabled by default in Wikidata. Found and fixed a performance bottleneck.
- Work on making the interface more responsive, e. g. live preview when editing labels and updating the watchlist star when saving.
- Started refactoring and fixing issues with automatically created summaries that are, for example, created by bots via API calls.
- Fixed an issue with OAuth on Wikidata because of permissions
- Started code review of the code the student team is working on for suggestions
- Discussed updates to the data model document to be able to update it to the actual implementation
- Did a technical debt analysis and design review of Wikibase.git, with initial focus on WikibaseLib
- Got (backend) EntityStore on the way, so we can test API modules without touching the database
- Further work on TimeParsers move to the backend
- Monthly Tasks
- Fix a format or content violation for the belongs to jurisdiction (P1001) property
- Hack on one of these.
- Help develop the next summary here!
- Contribute to a Showcase item
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Recent software changes
- The latest version of MediaWiki (1.23wmf14) was added to test wikis and MediaWiki.org on February 13. It will be added to non-Wikipedia wikis on February 18, and all Wikipedia wikis on February 20 (calendar).
- You can now use the list of active users again. [1] [2]
- The new search tool (CirrusSearch) now gives more importance to content namespaces if you search in several namespaces. [3]
- You can now directly link to files viewed with MultimediaViewer, the new tool for viewing media files. [4]
- You can read the summary of the Wikimedia technical report for January 2014. [5]
Problems
- On February 9, Wikimedia Labs was broken for about 2 hours due to an XFS file system problem. [6]
- On February 11, there were problems with VisualEditor for about 20 minutes due to a server logging issue. [7]
- On the same day, for about 20 minutes there were issues with page loading due to database problems.
- There were issues with page loading between 21:00 UTC on February 13 and 11:00 UTC on February 14 for users in Europe. It was due to a cache server problem.
- On February 14, all sites were broken for about 15 minutes for users in Southeast Asia, Oceania and the western part of North America. It was due to problems with cache servers.
VisualEditor news
- The link tool now tells you when you're linking to a disambiguation or redirect page. [8]
- You can now change image display (like thumbnail, frame and frameless) with VisualEditor. [9]
- Wikitext warnings will now hide when you remove wikitext from paragraphs you are editing. [10]
- You will soon be able to create and edit redirect pages with VisualEditor. [11] [12] [13]
08:38, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
This week's article for improvement (week 8, 2014)
 Model of a German SAR-Lupe reconnaissance satellite inside a Cosmos-3M rocket
The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Previous selections: Impossible object • Life sciences Get involved with the TAFI project! You can... Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of Evad37 (talk) 16:22, 17 February 2014 (UTC) • |
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A claim made at ANI
Hi. For some days ago, I brought up a case at ANI. You left early and it was archived, along with other cases, too early because of a glitch. You may have missed it so I want to tell that while I was dissatisfied at first, it was much worse after Yambaram wrote this: "Considering the fact that IRISZOOM is not fighting with everyone as often as she has done with past false accusations that were directed at me, one has to ask himself this why this is happening: Is it a coincidence that I am an Israeli Jew while she's a person who has links to some of the most anti-Israel websites in their user page?". His explanation to why he wrote "is it a coincidence that I am an Israel Jew?" was not good and instead of apologizing, he said he meant that I may have something against Israelis. That is not much better. He has made a similiar claim against another user and was warned. I certainly think that such a claim can not go unnoticed so that is why I am writing here. --IRISZOOM (talk) 01:30, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
- Tom Morris, I regret that you left the discussion too early, because IRISZOOM's remarks as well as false and thus offensive interpretations must be enforced by admins.
- I see here that IRISZOOM again decided to tell only one side of the story, not telling you what my response was and instead writing "His explanation to why he wrote "is it a coincidence that I am an Israel Jew?" was not good". Seriously? Not only does IRISZOOM claim I made an accusation when I only raised a concern, now he/she judges my explanation to be "not good?" When I disagreed with something IRISZOOM wrote in that disucssion, he/she said "If you want to believe your theory, it's silly but you are allowed to do so", but when IRISZOOM doesn't agree with me, my explanation is "not good". Isn't it pathetic? My reply was that since IRISZOON had links to extreme anti-Israel websites and considering his/her support for Arabs/Palestinians on various articles on Wikipedia, I wrote "Israeli Jew" because there are Israeli Arabs and Palestinians Israelis which IRISZOOM is supportive of as his/her edits indicate. So if I were an Israeli Muslim/Palestinian/Arab, my statement just wouldn't make sense as it would contradict reality, so I clarified my question by saying Israeli Jew and not just Israeli.
- Hoping it would help him/her put me in a bad light in the eyes of the uninformed reader, IRISZOOM keeps referring to that other case, which involves a user that already was/claimed he was being called an 'antisemite' many times in the past, like here and here, to name a few. I encourage you to read that "case" and see for yourself how Nishidani's accusations against me and other editors were debunked by everyone. Besides, among other things, IRISZOOM has wrongly accused me of "reverting just for the sake of that" and of "having something against certain nationalities", and that indeed shouldn't go unnoticed.
- Lastly, I think it's important to note that I have found many mistakes IRISZOOM has made, some of which he/she even acknowledged and corrected, however IRISZOOM never apologized for any of them, but on the other hand insists that I do. Regards, Yambaram (talk) 12:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
- I of course told about how I interpreted your remark. I am not supposed to make the case for you because the whole problem is how I interpreted your remark, which you not only refuse to take back but keep saying that it was okay and that I should be sanctioned. I want Tom Morris to read the page and tell how he interprets it.
- It is not pathethic at all. If I and others find your theory silly and you still want to belive your theory, it is fine. But if you write something like "is it a coincidence that I am an Israel Jew?", it is another thing. I do not understand what you are trying to say with this. Of course I can not accept a statement like that but accept that you want to belive that theory. I have also said to you why your explanation was not good. With that explanation you mean that I may have something against other nationalities (Israelis). I said that was not much better as it is not acceptable to have something against other nationalities. What you are now trying to do is saying that I claimed you had something against other nationalities and I therefore should be sanctioned. I have already explained this too you, including in my last reply at ANI where I wrote:
- I am tired of you misreading thing after thing. I did not "accuse" you of having "something against other nationalities". Read it again. I was referring to you who said that you meant "Israelis" and I responded that this wasn't acceptable either, as it's not okay to have something against other nationalities. -IRISZOOM (talk) 23:43, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- I am astonished that you still have not understood this. And I still do not understand why you are trying to defend what you said to Nishidani. We have a problem if you do not see the problem in that. You got warned for this statement.
- You keep bringing up my editing mistakes, which were small and not "many". There is nothing, which Tom Morris also have said, that can be sanctioned there. I think you are making a desperate try. My editing mistakes, as everyone has made, can not be compared to a personal attack and here we are talking about a serious one. Again, I want to know if the following is acceptable:
- Considering the fact that IRISZOOM is not fighting with everyone as often as she has done with past false accusations that were directed at me, one has to ask himself this why this is happening: Is it a coincidence that I am an Israeli Jew while she's a person who has links to some of the most anti-Israel websites in their user page?
- Is it acceptable? I think it is clear what Yambaram is saying here. Do you, Tom Morris, see the problem I do with this? --IRISZOOM (talk) 13:14, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
- I will believe whatever theory I'm entitled to believe.
- When an editor's edits indicate that they're anti-Israel, and he/she puts links to 4 extreme anti-Israel websites[14] on their user page, and with other POV-edits other editors have told them about, he/she then attacks an Israeli editor and singling him out - the concern I raised was a legitimate one. I did now mean it or accused it as you keep saying, but instead asked it, or raised it as a concern. I could have just opened a new case at ANI board, where admin's action probably would'be been taken.
- I was talking about your mistakes because I wanted to show that at times when you were clearly wrong, you did not apologize for anything, or for other wrong accusation you made against me, even in places not related to this such as in articles' talk pages.
- I can only apologize for not having written that sentence in a clearer way, because there really wasn't any "accusation", "attack" or "intimidation" as you desperately claim. Telling someone else what they said or intended to say is absurd.
- Do you, Tom Morris, see the problem I do with this? -Yambaram (talk) 15:40, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
- I did not discuss which theory you are "entitled to believe". I clarified the difference between believing that theory and writing "is it a coincidence that I am an Israel Jew?". In no way does the links give you allowance to write that. It was not a normal question. You are also trying to make this like any editing mistake, which it clearly is not. I can see no other interpretation and the fact that you do not accept that it was wrong to write that and instead want me to get sanctioned is astonishing. I think it is clear what you are saying. You do not agree so lets see what Tom Morris thinks. --IRISZOOM (talk) 15:54, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sigh. Of course it's not like any editing mistake, because you seem to take it personally and I can't control your feeling. But do you not understand what I'm writing? Should I translate the text into Swedish, or are you just pretending to have a problem understanding? You said "it's not okay to have something against other nationalities". Wrong. It's okay for you, me, or anyone else to have views against anything we want, as long as we comply and don't break Wikipedia's rules with our edits. Which you didn't, as you put links to these 4 websites, and that is why I raised that question. Two other users warned you that those websites should be deleted, as your history page shows, but you ignored and reverted them. When someone is "doing something against other nationalities" on Wikipedia while violating the policies, what do you think should be done? It must be reported, which is exactly what I did as I raised (again, not accused) my concern at the ANI board in response to that silly accusation of my "bad behavior". So please consider again who's wrong about all that.
- Tom, it's too bad you'll have to read this all just to find that all that happened is an exaggerated interpretations of a legitimate concern I raised in response to IRISZOOM, and then a refusal to understand my clarifications. Besides, lately IRISZOOM exhausted and unjustifiably bothered and even blamed stuff on too many editors in the wiki community on various pages. If not sanctions, he/she needs to get some editing restrictions. -Yambaram (talk) 05:22, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
- Your first sentences ("should I translate it" etc.) is that bad behaviour I was talking about at the noticeboard. Totally unwarranted comments. I understand exactly what you wrote and I do not accept that it is okay to have something against other nationalities. You now say it is but you wanted me sanctioned before because you thought I accused you of that. But let us not forget that that part was what I wrote to you about your explanation that you meant "Israelis", which I did not see as a good one and anyway, most think of Jews while thinking on Israelis. The fact is that you wrote "is it a coincidence that I am an Israel Jew?" and that is what I am upset about. I see you are trying to diminish it by saying that you only "raised the issue" but I think it is clear what you mean. And as I have said before, it is troubling that you have been warned for a similiar statement.
- As I said before, those links do not give you allowance to write what you wrote. And what you claim above is not true at all. My user page has got vandalized several times. Three times by an IP-hopping troll. There was no "warning" about this. That they are blocked, have their edit summaries hidden and got reverted by two admins should have made this clear to you.
- You have been very clear that you want me sanctioned but do not make up things. First it was because I "misinterpreted" your remark, later you said I claimed that you had something against other nationalities when it was something you misunderstood (which you never acknowledged either, though you had thought this was worthy a sanction), my editing mistakes (who everyone has made), now because my attacks on the "wiki community on various pages" (not true either). I see no understanding or self-criticism. Maybe because you know it was wrong to write "is it a coincidence that I am an Israel Jew?", which is atleast an insuination to anyone, but want to shift focus. You think my interpretation is wrong, and also worthy of a sanction, but lets see what Tom Morris think. I surely want to know because I think this is a serious issue.
- I am sorry to have written more before you came back, Tom Morris, but I felt I had to respond to this. --IRISZOOM (talk) 07:14, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
I am just getting ready to go to a social function. I'll have a look at the links and diffs presented in detail tomorrow. I'd suggest the current best course of action is for the two of you to de-escalate your dispute as best as possible. —Tom Morris (talk) 17:45, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
Here's my read on the situation. IRISZOOM believes that Yambaram's questioning of whether IRISZOOM's reaction to Yambaram's reporting of IRISZOOM's user page to ANI because of the inclusion of four links to websites critical of the state of Israel constitute an example of Yambaram making a personal attack on IRISZOOM, where the content of the personal attack is that IRISZOOM is targeting Yambaram because he is "an Israeli Jew" and thus a reader may conclude that IRISZOOM is acting out of either antisemitic or anti-Israeli animus.
Now, here's the thing. Let's say that IRISZOOM is acting out of anti-Israeli or antisemitic animus (or possibly both). They are never going to admit as much if asked. So asking them is pointless. And if they aren't acting out of anti-Israeli or antisemitic animus, accusing them of such is sort of bordering on a personal attack. (Although I'm keenly aware of the problems with that kind of rhetoric: in wider society, we now have racists and homophobes in the world who believe that the act of being labelled a racist or a homophobe is a far, far worse sin than actually being racist or homophobic, and we are asked to tolerate their intolerance.)
Is it a personal attack on the part of Yambaram? Possibly, although I can see why they might—in a moment of anger and frustration—conclude as much. I've come to similar conclusions about other editors, although I seem to have had the wisdom to not post said accusations on ANI. It might be honest and reasonable, or it might be motivated by a battleground mentality. Either is a possibility. I'm not a mind-reader nor a judge, just an admin who occasionally tries to proffer reasonable opinions on WP:ANI.
But neither of those possibilities matter much. The fact is that blocks are preventative rather than punitive, and neither of you seem to be attacking each other, just wanting to score points over the interpretation of previous posts that might sorta kinda be thought of as personal attacks. Both of you need to work out ways you can edit Wikipedia in a calm, civil and drama-free manner. If you edit in a contentious topic area like Israel-Palestine, you run the risk of having people say things that may upset you and make you lash out or accuse people of bias. Being able to control the desire to punch them through the screen and to find ways to work productively is an absolute necessity if you want to continue editing in a contentious subject area. If you can't do this, less patient admins will just hit block. —Tom Morris (talk) 13:21, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you for taking the time and for the great input, Tom, much appreciated. First, allow me to respond to IRISZOOM's last comment:
- I don't think the point is that complicated: it is okay to have something against anything in real life, but in some cases explicitly showing it on Wikipedia such as in one's user page is not acceptable, and that's why I raised this problem. First you said the explanation was 'not good' and now you say 'I did not see it as a good one', well I see it as the truth and you can choose whether to believe it or not, which is the same thing told me. I'm not denying what I meant by that statement - I indeed wanted admins to take a look at how your personal interests possibly compromise your editing. And it doesn't matter who these IPs were and if they were blocked/their edit summaries removed (by the way this is actually very odd since it's done only in rare cases), your user page content was constantly removed for a reason, and I'm convinced that the entire page would've been deleted had it stayed and been reported. So you have to understand that all the other stuff you think I was "blaming" you for was minor, and now that you're trying to list all of them is ridiculous. Again, the main issue was the websites, the singling me out thing and the rest were of less importance to me.
- Tom, thanks again for your response. As I explained, my main point wasn't about what I think/said of IRISZOOM, but the websites he/she used and the policies violated by having them, and what it led to later when it involved me. Regarding the allegations of what I said, IRISZOOM, and Nishidani, if what I wrote in those two sentences/cases sounded particularly offensive and insulted you, I apologize, as this wasn't my intention but instead a result of sincere words. Please take into consideration some of the things I and other editors have said, too. Tom rightly said that "If you edit in a contentious topic area like Israel-Palestine, you run the risk of having people say things that may upset you and make you lash out or accuse people of bias", which brings me back to something I've already said before, IRISZOOM: if every editor were to complaint about every tiny thing so easily then the WP:ANI noticeboard would have thousands of new posts every hour. Lastly, IRISZOOM, I think we may both have some similar characteristics, only we're on the opposite ends of the spectrum, and maybe that's why we are being so stubborn in our disputes which occur relatively often. Hope it will decelerate over time. -Yambaram (talk) 15:18, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
- Excuse me, Tom, but since my name came up. I don't mind turpiloquence, vehement hatred, dislike expressed in my regard anywhere: heavy flak's par for the course and whingeing over what upset editors say when their mouths are faster than their commonsense is generally a waste of time. Given the I/P area has been (it's much better these days however) historically a war-zone, only thick-skinned editors should work there. There is one exception. No innuendoes about a suspected 'antisemitic' attitudes in editors who do not toe an identifiable line. If a real antisemite crops up, he or she is normally exposed and kicked off rapidly here. I've complained about them myself in the past. The one exception is important because antisemites either encourage violence, or justify genocide usually by Holocaust denial, and to try to make out that an editor who edits, say, to achieve narrative balance between Israeli POVs and Palestinian POVs is intrinsically antisemitic is, frankly, cheap and vicious rumour mongering of a distinctly violent kind. Yambaram's denunciations against me, User:Zero000 and IRISZOOM in formal complaints since October last year have used this meme to disinvalidate work there, and he should be told that it is totally unacceptable. Iriszoom should remember that, other that this one, outbursts are to be treated generally as 'water off a duck's back' and should never been reported, if only to save administrative time. To react to insults, suspected or otherwise, with a sense of injury only risks suspicions of qui s'excuse, s'accuse.Nishidani (talk) 16:30, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
- I do not see what you want to prove with referring to my statements about your explanation. It is the same. Again, regarding the IP-hopping trolls. They just vandalized the page and did not "warn" me. This is what they do to other pages. They use to post racist comment along with their other bad changes (one which you reverted yesterday in another article). So nothing is odd.
- Thanks for your reply Tom Morris but I agree with Nishidani's comments. I hope Yambaram is now much more careful with writing such things. --IRISZOOM (talk) 20:58, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
- I thought we were done with this issue, but apparently not. Note that I never accused Nishidani or anyone else of being antisemitic, Tom, and if you read that case Nishidani referred to, you'll see many things: (I picked a few selectively, but I'm sure there are more in other places)
- It was revealed there that Nishidani has called the Jewish holiday of Purim a celebration of a successful genocide.[15] | User:Howunusual told him he "complained about accusations of racism, then accused others of being racist." | Nishidani accused me/implied I was being some paid Israeli activist on Wikipedia [16]. | User:No More Mr Nice Guy said in to Nishidani "Perhaps an admin with some balls would take this opportunity to look into your behavior, but I doubt it." | User:Ankh.Morpork also said: "Nishidani appears to be playing the 'playing the antisemitism card' card." and later told Nishidani: "Recently, you have taken great interest in gleefully promoting a contentious, fringe theory about the ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews." | User:Tritomex gave a very long report against Nishidani as well | User:The Devil's Advocate joined in support for everyone by writing this (click show to see)
|
Nishidani made a seemingly sarcastic comment about the considerable growth in the Ashkenazi Jewish population, casting doubt on the idea that the population's increase occurred without significant conversion efforts. At the same he seems to be editing strongly in favor of the Khazarian theory, which postulates that the Ashkenazi population is actually a large group of converts from a nation situated in the Caucasus who migrated to Western Europe. While the theory is not inherently anti-semitic, it is commonly used by anti-semites as a sort of excuse for throwing out anti-semitic comments. The Khazarian theory is, to my knowledge, considered a fringe view and a sort of pseudohistory not seriously backed by any historical or genetic research. If this represents Nishidani's actual view of the origins of Ashkenazi Jewry then even an explicit accusation of anti-semitism would not be excessive since the Khazar theory is often associated with anti-semitism, especially when it is invoked by someone who regularly makes provocative comments about Jews and Israel.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 22:39, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
|
- Just putting it out there. Oh, and no apologies were seen there. That's it. So if you want all the focus on me, then expect to see response, like now.
- To IRISZOOM - thanks, I'll weight my words more cautiously from now on, I understand that sentence was problematic.
- Regards, Yambaram (talk) 21:27, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
March 2014 GAN Backlog Drive
It's that time again! Starting on March 1, there will be another GAN Backlog Drive! There will be several changes compared to previous drives:
- This drive will introduce a new component to it; a point system. In a nutshell, older nominations are worth more points than newer nominations. The top 3 participants who have the points will be awarded the Golden, Silver, or Bronze Wikipedia Puzzle Piece Trophy, respectively.
- Unlike the December 2013 Backlog Drive, earning an additional barnstar if you reached your goal has been removed.
- The allowance to have insufficient reviews has been lowered to 2 before being disqualified.
- An exception to the rule that all reviews must be completed before the deadline has been created.
Also, something that I thought I would share with all of you is that we raised $20.88 (USD) for the WMF in the December 2013 drive. It may not sound like a lot but considering that that was raised just because we reviewed articles, I would say that's pretty good! With that success, pledges can be made for the upcoming drive if you wish.
More info regarding the drive and full descriptions regarding the changes to this drive can be found on the the drive page. If you have any questions, feel free to leave a message on the drive talk page.
I look forward to your participation and hope that because of it, some day the backlog will be gone!
--Dom497
--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:58, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Wikidata weekly summary #98
- Noteworthy Stuff
- Wikisource will receive access to the data in Wikidata on February 25th. Planning is taking place at d:Wikidata:Wikisource.
- 1 week left to give initial input for the user interface redesign
- Did you know?
- Newest properties: impact factor, Municipality code (Denmark), USB ID, Home world, Cardinality of the group, Internet media type, Bluebook abbreviation, Z39.5 abbreviation, ISO 4 abbreviation, CODEN, landing site, US Congress Bio identifier, Scopus Source ID, Scopus Affiliation ID, Scopus EID, Scopus Author ID, IPTC Media Topic, topic's main portal, Regensburg Classification, Library of Congress Classification, neutron number
- Fun Fact: Wikidata has reached 30 million statements
- Development
- Refactored the suggestions drop-downs when entering properties for better performance
- Fixed a misdirected arrow in left-to-right languages (bugzilla:61308)
- Worked on an Apache redirect issue (bugzilla:54273)
- Found and started fixing an issue that asked users for additional languages they don't want according to their Babel box (bugzilla:61446)
- Table-of-contents link to the statements section of an item was broken
- Kept poking TimeParsers
- Made WikibaseDatabase feature complete for use with WikibaseQueryEngine
- Work on caching javascript config variables in parser cache
- Investigate using ElasticSearch as term index backend to take some load of the most-used database table
- Monthly Tasks
- Fix a format or content violation for the MedlinePlus ID (P604) property
- Hack on one of these.
- Contribute to a Showcase item
- Help develop the next summary here!
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Recent software changes
- The latest version of MediaWiki (1.23wmf15) was added to test wikis and MediaWiki.org on February 20. It will be added to non-Wikipedia wikis on February 25, and all Wikipedia wikis on February 27 (calendar).
- The new search tool (CirrusSearch) was added to the Italian Wikiquote and all Wikiversity projects. Users can now enable it in their Beta options. [17] [18]
- The Universal Language Selector was enabled on all Wikimedia wikis again. You can enable web fonts in your ULS options (see how).
VisualEditor news
- You will soon be able to add and edit
__STATICREDIRECT__,__[NO]INDEX__and__[NO]NEWEDITSECTION__in the page settings menu. [19] [20] [21] - You will soon be able to use the Ctrl+Alt+S or ⌘+Opt+S shortcuts to open the save window in VisualEditor. [22] [23]
- You will soon be able to preview your edit summary when checking your changes in the save window. [24] [25]
Future software changes
- You will soon be able to use the
<categorytree>tag again. [26] - You will soon be able to post messages with the MassMessage tool in all talk namespaces. [27] [28]
- Notifications will soon work in all namespaces. [29][30][31]
Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by MediaWiki message delivery • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
10:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC)