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December 19

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Template:USSubway

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus. RyanGerbil10(Упражнение В!) 07:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:USSubway (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Doesn't aid in navigation in my opinion. The only designation is that they are all subways. Why would I want to jump from PATH (NY) to the Metro Red Line (LA)? This is better suited for a category rather than a template. --Hbdragon88 22:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I agree completely. RickyCourtney 22:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep: This one seems to exist with no major issues. And you may not want to jump between them, but others might. Pacific Coast Highway {talk • contribs} 05:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: As a metrophile Wikipedian, I say keep the articles. It is good to be able to jump to other articles of similar systems. --Crashintome4196 22:32, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Template:Latest stable release/Elecard MPEG Player

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was deletion. RyanGerbil10(Упражнение В!) 07:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Latest stable release/Elecard MPEG Player (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Template that seems to be used to record the latest stable release of a non-notable media player. Doesn't seem to be used even in the media player's own article. --NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 20:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Doubt

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The result of the debate was nomination withdrawn. Whispering 18:58, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Doubt (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I found this used in one article and thought it was vandalism, then discovered it is a template. Have no idea what it's for or what it's supposed to mean, but it doesn't seem to be in any other article but this one. --ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 17:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The category it's in, "Translations", hints to me that it's used in translated articles where there's a part that the translator doesn't understand. —AySz88\^-^ 20:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
*Strong delete per above. Possibly even a speedy. Addhoc 17:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Notepage

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The result of the debate was delete. -- nae'blis 05:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Links to a page with "notes" about a page. That's what talk pages are for; we don't need to confuse the matter by adding another layer. (Radiant) 13:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Template:Silly

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The result of the debate was to keep. RyanGerbil10(Упражнение В!) 07:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Silly (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

A template that's supposed to be put on talk pages of users inserting jokes into Wikipedia. Nevertheless, I find it rather offensive, both by it's name and the message header. As I explained on Template talk:Silly, we're supposed to hold higher standards that the people who are vandalising our site. Even if they are idiots, calling them names is still a violation WP:NPA. Миша13 12:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Миша13 12:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as creator of the template. This template is meant to be used as a second level warning, after someone who is 'playing around' with Wikipedia has been warned with one of the friendlier templates such as Behave and is continuing to make joke articles or edits. It does not call people idiots, it says their behaviour is silly. There's a big difference between those two. The alternative to this would probably be Test2- this is much more informative and positive than that one. StoptheDatabaseState 12:51, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Please don't be silly" - this phrase alone suggests that the person given the warning is silly. "Silliness doesn't help" can also be read as the receiver's silliness, not his/her actions, as you suggest. Finally, the template is often being used without substitution. If someone were to edit their talk page and find the text {{Silly}} inside they'd have all the right to feel insulted. In short, this template has a big potential of being found offensive by the person receiving it, which is not acceptable. Миша13 13:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Whatever, author-delete then. Personally I think "don't be silly" is nothing like "you're an idiot", but if you find it offensive then perhaps it is offensive. It's a bit of a half-way house between a welcome template and a warning template anyway. Perhaps when I can be bothered I'll cannibalise the uncontentious parts of it (i.e. the pictorial links to helpful pages) into a nice welcome template. One lives and learns, in Wiki as in life. StoptheDatabaseState 13:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - actually I am the creator of this template! - and whatever you think, I think it serves as a friendly and helpful template by bringing in a link to useful parts of the Wiki that newcomers might not be familiar with. Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! (Whisper...) 14:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • TfD isn't cleanup. Just rewrite it so it doesn't call people names... -Amarkov blahedits 15:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and rewrite if necessary. I'm not sure I see the close connection between "don't be silly" and disparaging the user's intelligence that Misza13 does; any template can be misused for non-intended purposes, it doesn't mean they should be deleted because of that. -- nae'blis 19:14, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep; it's a nicer first warning than {{Test}}. I don't see it as calling anyone names -- it says their edit was silly, not that they are. --Russ (talk) 22:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Good fun and effective. Dfrg.msc 1 . 2 . Editor Review 01:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but rephrase LEAD This template may be used mistakenly in which case it falls foul of WP:BITE. But it looks more friendly then the current warning. frummer 04:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep - salvageable. Addhoc 18:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This is very useful for warning users about joke edits. It also serves to welcome users to Wikipedia, where test1 and bv simply tell them what not to do. —ptk✰fgs 23:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per fgs. Alex43223 Talk | Contribs | E-mail 00:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per ptkfgs †he Bread 01:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I don't see any name calling here. It's only the edits that are referred to as "silly", and since we're talking about joke edits, this is not inappropriate. 'sides, even if it was different, it'd be better to change the template rather than deleting it. -- Schnee (cheeks clone) 23:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This template is ideal at the right time and place, and is a useful part of the array of warnings. Mr Stephen 21:17, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, could be useful. —Kenyon (t·c) 01:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. To me, this isn't about "name calling" or (in)sensitivity. This is about a template with limited uses and a bad message. Welcoming someone or recommending they create account are noble message fit for sustitutable templates. "Template:Silly", however, is an insult. No, not in the way other users think. This template itself is a silly little insult to legitamate vandalism warnings and user greetings. It's written in unprofessional tone, overly long and filled with unnecessary images. I don't care how many people use it or want it kept, either. This is not "salveage". It's not a vehicle, or even a piece of metal. This is waste template. It repeatedly refers to "mess(ing) about" and does outright mention "block or ban". (Without linking to the actual imformation regarding such actions.) If I were a new user or troll, I'd either stratch my head or laugh at this. Really, how are people supposed to take Wikipedia seriously when we put this on user pages? The problem is not it's first sentence or even its wording. It's an inherently childish attempt to make a casual statement. Normally, there's nothing wrong with trying to speak civilly and casually with a new user on their talk page. However, when you put such a message in a template and try to pass it off as something, official and generally useful, you're going too far. I personally find template:test far too soft and sugary. test0 and verror are even worse. Still, that's just assuming good faith. "Silly" makes no real attempt to do that, but instead tries to reason with, or perhaps even talk down to, pontential vandals.
In short: it's not something we need in a template, and would require a full rewrite to fully improve. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 01:35, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Template:Hurricane number storms by month

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- nae'blis 05:36, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Hurricane number storms by month (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Incomplete and not properly formatted. It's only used in one article, and even then it doesn't add much to the article. Hasn't been edited in months until today, and is quite simply not worth keeping around. – Chacor 12:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:User fil

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Decision was keep (withdrawn)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep (withdrawn) Martinp23 12:05, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:User fil (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Duplicate of Template:User tl. Can be deleted speedily via WP:GUS. --Howard the Duck 11:28, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Filipino has it's own ISO code (fil). Thus, different from Tagalog.
  2. There's a Komisyon sa Wikang Filipino, which specifically states that Filipino is a language on its own.
  3. Public records show Filipino as a separate language, way back to the time of President Quezon.

209.8.41.106 01:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply] 

 Attention: Any Admin.
 Please mark this TfD as Keep,
 per withdrawal of Howard the Duck.
 Thank you. { PMGOMEZ } 07:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Template:Current-ScoutingCOTM

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was kept per withdrawl of nomination -- nae'blis 00:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Current-ScoutingCOTM (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Armenian capitals

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was to keep. RyanGerbil10(Упражнение В!) 08:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Armenian capitals (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete Template is distruptive and axactly will create edit-rv wars, in related articles. There is one capital for one country, to add other countries's cities as capitals of Armenia is a Strong nationalist approach. MustTC 11:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain exactly how this template is "disruptive" and how it will create POV wars. The way I see it, the fact that these cities were indeed former Armenian capitals is an undisputed fact. -- Clevelander 21:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You are non-truthful. You are catched by yourself.
Okay...what? -- Clevelander 14:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Here; the first header of template(You created it)The 12 capitals of Armenia and that version included Yerevan.
That is correct. I based this template completely off of one from Russian Wikipedia. See here. -- Clevelander 14:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Now; There are two possibilities;1-You are Liar; since you stated that this template aims to give info about ancient history, 2-Yerevan is a former capital of Armenia.
Wait, how is that second one a possibility again? Sounds more like a statement to me. Also, I am not a "liar" as I never specifically stated that this template aims to give info about ancient history. I stated that its creation was for historical reference and it originally included Yerevan because I directly copied it from the Russian Wikipedian template I presented above and at the time I did so had little time to make any serious changes. I now see my error and I propose that we rename this template to "Historic capitals of Armenia". -- Clevelander 14:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please note; the name of Template is Armenian Capitals not ancient capitals not former capitals -- 81.213.210.119 23:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know how many times I've stated this, but again, I think we should keep it and rename it to "Historic capitals of Armenia." Regards, Clevelander 14:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - this seems to be part of a larger tendency to create a huge lot of new navbox templates, many of which tend to create additional NPOV problems. Especially in Middle-East and Central-Asia related domains, I've observed a trend for "national" templates to be created and to be perceived by POV-warring groups of editors as attempts at "laying claim" to some article on behalf of some nation, leading to conflicts of "staking out turf". While this overall trend is troublesome, I don't think this particular template is among the worst. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually this template wasn't created with the goal to starting NPOV problems. It was actually inspired by a similar one on Russian Wikipedia. See here. -- Clevelander 21:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is hard not to agree with your observations, that kind of "staking out turf" attitude is mostly generated towards Turkey's borders for historical, political and emotional reasons. And although this one may not be the worst, something should be done for a start.--Doktor Gonzo 14:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Heh, you missed the subtlety in my argument... ;-) I didn't say "staking out turf", I said "perceived by POV-warriors" as staking-out turf. It's the kind of conflict where it takes two to tango, and we have very similar conflicts the other way round too, and probably worse (Template:Turkic-speaking comes to mind.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I know what you meant and was speaking wikipedia-wise. Or maybe I didn't understand, did you understand what I meant? ;) It may take 2 to tango but just 1 to breakdance, write that down!--Doktor Gonzo 17:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please explain the "strong nationalistic aims" of this template. -- Clevelander 21:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This template wreaks of irredentist concepts.. "Armenian capitals"? There is only one country Armenia as defined by intl law. Tagging other cities in other countries is simply misguided. The history of these cities are talked about in the main and History of Armenia also includes references to them. So what is the point of the template except WP:POINT? Is there a template "Capitals of Turks"? or "Capitals of Germania"? Baristarim 00:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What on earth are you talking about? -- Clevelander 21:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is the UN maps that define Armenia in any case.Baristarim 03:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep and rename. I did not create this template to offend the Turkish people or to push any sort of "strong nationalistic Armenian aim". I created it for historical reference only. I think that the core issue here is not the template itself, but rather its name which could have been misinterpreted. So, I propose that we not only keep this template but rename it to "Historic capitals of Armenia." That's fair isn't it? -- Clevelander 18:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Following comments are putted here by me, transferred-half deleted-divided by Clevelander, and now I am putting my comments here again.Sorry.MustTC 15:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That is true, I removed your comments, restored the anon's comments, then moved your comments pertaining to my private discussion with Francis over to Francis' talk page. Just now I also removed your re-quote of the anon's comments (so as not to confuse the reader) as well as your transcription of my message to Francis (as the reader can see that clearly in the link). I apologize if I violated any rules and I accept full responsibility for my actions. -- Clevelander 15:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dear Clevelander, I am (ofcourse all contributors here) ready to assume good faith.But please follow these. You had logged in with your IP and remove some comments from here(with a rv-summary as Rv anon vandalism. Where is vandalism here. Good points about template and the idea behind it.
I'll admit I was wrong in removing the anon's comments (I thought they were just spam but later found out that this wasn't the case). I responded to his arguments above. -- Clevelander 15:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • You posted a message to here. What is the idea motivated you to close this TfD, how you decide no concensus, how you impose an idea on behalf of all users contribute here. All of them is a good faith or what? RegardsMustTC 14:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't impose any idea on anybody. I just suggested to Francis that he close this on no concensus as it seemed to be going nowhere. Ultimately, it would be his decision whether to close it or not. He later responded to me and said that he will not close the TfD on no concensus yet. He says he will wait until Saturday to do so, if no reasonable solution is agreed upon. Again, my position is for the template to remain but to rename it to "historic capitals of Armenia" as opposed to just "Armenian capitals." That way, it shall be a victory for both Armenian and Turkish users. (BTW, I already renamed the template) -- Clevelander 15:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does the term "capital" have any meaning in a medieval context? Also, no single settlement was ever the "capital" of all of Armenia, so does the template have validity? Meowy 21:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. I don't think there should be anthing offensive to the Turks about this template. I think this template is very informative and useful and should not be deleted. Maybe the name might be little offensive than it should be changed to "Historic capitals of Armenia". ROOB323 21:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
On the basis of what? This creates a huge confusion for uninformed readers who are likely to confuse the country Armenia as defined by intl law, and many historical theories. The mains of the article include their history.
It will create confusion among readers only if the template is not explicity called "former capitals of Armenia" which is what my keep-and-rename proposal calls for. -- Clevelander 15:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If this isn't pan-X-ism, I don't know what is.Baristarim 00:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Do you really believe that a template about a country's former capitals is a form of irredentism? -- Clevelander 15:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Can I create a template "Capitals of Turks" and paste it over it tens of cities in Eurasia? If I ever did that, the insults of pan-Turkism would start blowing in a second. Same for "template: capitals of Germans" or "Capitals of Slavic Europe". There is no need for such template except WP:POINT. The Armenian heritage of those cities in question are extensively dealt with in the main. Besides, this would be very confusing for the uninformed reader since Armenia is also a sovereign state and a member of UN as defined by international law. I am also against any template like "capitals of Turks" or anything similar. The history sections of these articles in question are adequate to cover the subject matter in question. Baristarim 21:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Slavic Europe, Germanic Europe, Latin Europe, Arab world and etc articles also exist. This is not the same thing. This template is "Armenian capitals". What is that supposed to mean? If there were ever a template "Capitals of Turkey" or "Capitals of Turks" that was created to tag cities thousands of km from Turkey just because they were the capital of a 13th century Turkic princedom, I would vote delete for that as well..Baristarim 00:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
? I am not quite sure that I am following you. Baristarim 00:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I propose renaming it with Ancient Armenian States and their Capitals. (Or an equivelant, but better organised one.) Only the name Armenian capitals is not useful at all. Caglarkoca 01:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • To Clevelander; Dear Clevelander please dont divide/delete/transfer my following comments, again and again.Keep as a whole.
Er, I don't exactly follow you. -- Clevelander 17:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • To other users; Please note the change in Template name, who decide to rename, where is the consensus.
Yes, but it needed to be renamed otherwise, this dispute would go on forever. My decision to make this move reflects the best interests of both Turkish and Armenian users. I want to push for unity, not disunity among both of our groups (which seems to be something you're pushing for as opposed to other Turkish users such as Baristarim who have expressed a willingness to work constructively with Armenian users). -- Clevelander 17:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Armenian Capitals has been renamed Template:Historic capitals of Armenia, thus it is automatically the successor to that earlier template. -- Clevelander 17:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Following comments are putted here by me, transferred-half deleted-divided by Clevelander, and now I am putting my comments here again.Sorry.MustTC 15:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Dear Clevelander, I am (ofcourse all contributors here) ready to assume good faith.But please follow these;
      • You had logged in with your IP and remove some comments from here(with a rv-summary as Rv anon vandalism. Here that comments again;
        • You are non-truthful. You are catched by yourself. Here; the first header of template(You created it)The 12 capitals of Armenia and that version included Yerevan. Now; There are two possibilities;
          1-You are Liar; since you stated that this template aims to give info about ancient history,
          2-Yerevan is a former capital of Armenia.
          Please note; the name of Template is Armenian Capitals not ancient capitals not former capitals.
          81.213.210.119 23:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Dear Clevelander, where is vandalism here. Good points about template and the idea behind it.
      • You posted a message to here;
        • Francis, could you close this on the basis on no concensus. ****::It doesn't seem to be going anywhere (most of the votes in favor of deleting it are from Turkish users while most in favor of keeping it are Armenian users). The easiest solution, in my opinion would be to rename the template to "Historic capitals of Armenia." Best,
          Clevelander 12:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • What is the idea motivated you to close this TfD, how you decide no concensus, how you impose an idea on behalf of all users contribute here.
      • All of them is a good faith or what?
      • RegardsMustTC 14:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You posted the exact same comments above and I have replied to them. Instead of responding you have decided to repeat your earlier post. -- Clevelander 17:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
MustTC whats the point of you repeating tha same thing over and over and confusing everyone. ROOB323 18:52, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Could you explain why you voted to delete this template. -- Clevelander 21:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What history? The articles in question talk in extensive detail about their history. Please do not emotionalize the issue. This template, as it stands, is confusing and semi-political. "Armenian capitals?" Should I create a "Capitals of Slavs" template and paste it all over Wikipedia? Can't you see the inherent irredentism in this? Istanbul, for example, is categorized under Ancient Greek Cities, but there is no template like "Greek Capitals" or "Capitals of Germania". This template is confusing and, simply, irredentist. Armenian capitals or capitals of Armenia? What kind of a template is that? There are no templates like "capitals of arabia" or "capitals of austro-hungary" or "hungarian capitals".Baristarim 00:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
ABSURD! Austro-Hungaria did not have 12 capitals in its history !!!! Armenia did. The notability of the template is based on the number of capitals. Name another NATION (Slavs, Turkics and Germanics are not NATIONS) that had this many capitals of their state?--Eupator 02:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Some people have also considered for a long time that Slavs, Germans and Turks were one nation as well. It didn't turn out too nice either u know. 4th century "Armenians" are not the same as Armenians of today. Greeks also had many capitals, should I create a "Capitals of Greeks" template and paste it all over? Since with your logic even the 13th century BC Greeks can be categorized with ease with today's Greeks. I am not against the use of the national adjective per se, that's why I mentioned the "Ancient Greek cities" cat example. It addresses the issues satisfactorily. There is no such thing as "Turkics".. Please see Turks. If you wish you can see the site of the Royal Academy of Arts exhibition titled "Turks: The Journey of a thousand years: 600-1600" [1] to make sure that the word "Turkics" do not exist. There are Turkic peoples and Turkish people, "Turkics" doesn't exist. The correct noun is "Turks", and there are the Turkish citizens who are citizens of Turkey. Do not confuse notions because you have considered Turks as "nomadic savages" (your words in Talk:Armenia) Nation concept didn't exist before the French Revolution either, there were only ethnic and religious groups.Baristarim 02:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Turks, Slavs and Germans considered the same nation? By whom? The Turkic Santa Claus? I see no reasonable count argument provided by you, just irrelevant rhetoric. Stick to the topic. Oh and speakers of Turkic languages are Turkics not Turks (regardless if they are at their nomadic barbarian state or settled mimicking settled civilized Iranians state), Turks are citizens of Turkey, that's it.--Eupator 04:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Pfff Baris, so the modern Greeks should not be categorised with the Greeks of the 13th century, nor the today Armenians with the Armenians of the 4th century? Seems funny, cause u are talking about all the Turkic peoples as Turks + as continuation for more than a millenium... Not even the appearance of modern Turks match with the one of the Proto-Turks!(we are talking about two distinct races!). the Armenians and the Greeks however, kept their language, culture and appearance (to a great extend) throughout history (at least the Greeks, have also kept lots of their ancient pagan cults!). the term Turkish people does only refer to the citizens of Turkey... if it was, the Turks of Germany have nothing to do in that article's infobox... Not to mention that Kurds, citizens of Turkey, are not ethnically Turkish... As for this template, it is legitimate enough to exist. there are other such templates as well: Template:US capital, Template:Capitals of Bulgaria, but i did not see the users from FYROM proposing the later for deletion, on the grounds of any "irrendistic claims"... As i've said above, it is about history, and deleting it is simply POV-pushing. and, btw, a template for Greek capitals, would also be possible; although it would be rather big, including capitals from Mycenae till Nafplio and Athens... Hectorian 15:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There is no reason to delete it they are indeed former Armenian capitals its history its encyclopedic it should be a keeper. The majority of the delete are turks sadly thats nothing new but this really does nothing to harm them. Nareklm 13:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep (now that already renamed) Nice, factual and informative. I'd also like to be able to see their locations on a map. NikoSilver 16:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Now that we have the "Greek quartet" votes, the same vote, as should be expected. I should propose to admins they count your votes as one.--Doktor Gonzo 22:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And I would suggest that you have a sound argumentation when making an XfD. NikoSilver 22:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I really wonder how much sound it must be to affect your vote.--Doktor Gonzo 08:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Theres a exhibition thats going to open soon. "Armenia's 12 Capital Cities" Exhibition Opened in Paris Nareklm 04:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Template:WPMILHIST Collaboration

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was to keep. RyanGerbil10(Упражнение В!) 08:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:WPMILHIST Collaboration (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete WP:ASR --Shywun 09:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Template:Current-ScoutingSATM

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was to keep. RyanGerbil10(Упражнение В!) 08:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Current-ScoutingSATM (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete WP:ASR --Shywun 08:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Template:Long

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was to keep all. RyanGerbil10(Упражнение В!) 08:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Long (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template:Verylong (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template:Intro length (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template:LEAD (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

These templates address metadata (information about the article, not the content). That topic (about the style of the article) belongs on the talk page but these templates are only useful for creating a category which can be browsed (see Category:Articles that are too long which is monitored for backlogs). Currently, it is not a practise to place maintenance tags on the talk page, except in to-do lists. If placed on the talk page, the templates will be forgotten or archived creating false positive backlog numbers. ·maclean 04:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

comment somehow "template:lead" fell into this nom, not sure if it was intentional but it has its own category, which is Category:Wikipedia introduction cleanup.
Not necessarily- people sometimes ignore stuff that's brought up on the talk page if they don't want to deal with it. i think templates should be used for things where someone other than the person with the concern might be more qualified to make the changes. if a template amounted to the same thing as a section on the talk page, then why have templates? Acornwithwings 19:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment — "Pages do not become long without many people working on them, and those people know how long it is." The one and only time I've used this template was on the British Caledonian article, which is currently 221.4kB. Before the latest edits began in early November the page was 4.9kB. Looking at the page history, aside from a couple of very brief formatting tidies by myself and other editors, it looks to be almost entirely the work of one person using two IPs, 193.82.99.205 and 213.210.36.140, and that person seems to be uninterested in many pages except this one and those which link directly to it. All that time, all those edits (he/she doesn't use the 'preview' button as far as I can see), all those times that size warning must have popped up, and it still ballooned to >220kB.
The article didn't have sources either before I tagged the page, but the editor reacted quickly to fix that. I'm hoping that in due course he'll get round to splitting it as well - the depth in the article puts me off attempting to break it up into chunks, and I have 4,000+ edits' experience behind me. If he does, he'll have reacted to my tag, not the built-in alert. --DeLarge 11:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or Modify: Some articles must be long in order to convey the information. Perhaps the setting where the “Long” notation is triggered should be raised. Also the note that some browsers can’t handle the long article is silly, most reasonably well written browsers created in the last 10 years (except for cellphone browsers) should be able to handle it without problem. Bdelisle 21:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete cleanuptagcruft that wouldn't be helpful to readers. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 01:45, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. ^ Wikipedia:Babel
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