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This is an archive of discussions from Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals for the month of May 2007. Please move completed May discussions to this page as they occur, add discussion headers to each proposal showing the result, and leave incomplete discussions on the Proposals page. After May, the remainder of the discussions will be moved to this page, whether stub types have been created or not.

Those who create a stub template/cat should be responsible for moving the discussion here and listing the stub type in the archive summary.

Stub proposers please note: Items tagged as "nocreate" or "no consensus" are welcome for re-proposal if and when circumstances are auspicious.

Split of Category:American academic biography stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Oversize category(1200+), and stubsense (3 months out of date) gives the following double stubbed

I propose all of the above assuming that many articles are marked with either nationality or area of expertise and that these numbers will rise (I will create categories only after stubbing 60 articles). Waacstats 11:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

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{{Euro-hoops-bio-stub}} / Category:European basketball biography stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
Looking through this one, I'm at the Ts (going backwards), and it seems that a split of this nature would remove about 75-80% of the stubs in the category right now. --fuzzy510 06:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

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FedCup-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
Previously mentioned here. We now have over 100 Fed Cup articles (mostly teams) at the stub level. --Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 22:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

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Further split of African politician category

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create north & south, send central to sfr.
I am proposing the creation of the missing Category:North African politician stubs and Category:Southern African politician stubs. East, Central and West Africa already have been split off. Since we are creating politician templates for most to all African countries, this will eventually be very useful.--Thomas.macmillan 18:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

We should add Category:Middle African politician stubs to the list. The UN's current system uses the term "Middle Africa" and this would free up Category:Central African politician stubs allowing it to be reserved for the Central African Republic. This would make sense permcat-wise since Category:Central African politicians deals solely with the Central African Republic. Valentinian T / C 18:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
I've long been of the view that we should try to stick to the UN geoscheme (or else some alleged standard), so I'd strongly support this. Though I'd rather seen the CAR's politicos use Category:Central African Republic politician stubs, for the sake of scoping clarity; this looks like another instance where the permcat, Category:Central African politicians, has jumped the proverbial shark. Alai 19:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
In any case we don't have 60 article for politicians from the CAR so we'd need to upmerge any CAR template anyway. "Central African Republic ..." category names could work too, but in that case the entire permcat material should be renamed like we did for the Luxembourgers. Valentinian T / C 20:46, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I would support that country-wide rename. This is preventable confusion, so let's prevent it. Picaroon (Talk) 23:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
FWIW the geo-stub equivalents are Category:Central African Republic geography stubs and Category:Central Africa geography stubs. I've no objection to the latter changing to Middle Africa, but can see no reason why the word "Republic" shouldn't be used with other CAR categories. Grutness...wha? 00:35, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I'll support a general rename as well. Valentinian T / C 19:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
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Iran geo-stub followup

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The result of the debate was option #3 for now.
I've just finished sorting all the Iran geo-stubs by province (all except the 25 or so which either covered the whole country or were annoyingly vague ("Baz is a village in Iran", indeed...). Sadly, other than the already-split-off Tehran, no individual province reaches 60 stubs (some are tantalisingly close...). This leaves three options:

  1. keep them all unsplit, in the main Iran geography stubs category
  2. group those that can be - the three Korasans pass 60 stubs between them, as do the two Azarbaijans
  3. we split off the two that are in the mid-50s (Fars and Isfahan), both of which will likely climb past 60 fairly soon.

Persdonally, I'd marginally favour the third option, though the second has its merits. Grutness...wha? 10:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

  • I'm (still) in favour of the second, certainly for those "groups" that actually have their own articles (i.e. they're historical regions). But I've no objection to the third, too. Alai 18:57, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I support 2 also, but I'd like to note that the response I got from WP:Iran was virulent opposition. In light of that, support Proposal 3. Aelfthrytha 02:08, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
    • BTW, another thing that suggests that option 3 might be better is that there is no Category:Khorasan or Category:Azarbaijan. Grutness...wha? 05:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
      • No, that just suggests "usual situation for upmerger rather than a unitary stub type"; it certainly seems a lot more definitionally clear-cut than say, Category:Northeastern United States, but that hasn't stopped us, isn't stopping us, and is very likely not to stop us from creating numerous stub categories with that scope in the future. The virulent opposition is a concern, but without knowing if there's an actual basis for such, it's hard to know how seriously to take it. As these are down to 700ish, though, option 1 is certainly also viable. Alai 07:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
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Sub-Division of Category:Poetry stubs

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The result of the debate was do not create.
Ok so I probably need eating. Having already created the actual stub sections (Category and Template), I really am just looking for approval having been a bit to bold. I know that it will significant proportion and streamline the section, the numbers aren't massive.

Basically my move was to create the Year In Poetry stub section to remove these from the listing. I then plan to simply add the category to the Poetry stubs as a sub-level - much like the existing ones at the the Poetry stubs section.

Feel free to a) Eat me for not following procedure; b) Approve my idea (Thanks in advance), c) Drop comments here or on my talk page, d) Do something else.

Thanks for your assistance in this

Philipwhiuk 20:20, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

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Footy bios!

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The result of the debate was create.
Just one, actually. I count 47 Burkina Faso football bios - shall we make that a template that feeds into the African stubs?

Also, in Europe, the Montenegrin stubs are just shy of 60. Any objections to creating that category and formally splitting them out? -fuzzy510 18:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. Montenegro has c. 200 biographical articles, and the football material will no doubt keep growing. Valentinian T / C 19:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
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European politicians

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The result of the debate was create.
A few European nations might do with upmerged -politician templates (same procedure as every year):

  • Albania: 27
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina 34
  • Estonia: 39
  • Isle of Man: 24
  • Montenegro: 26
  • San Marino: 30 (has no -bio template).

Valentinian T / C 00:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Support, and on the basis of precedent, obviousness, and harmlessness, I'd suggest speedying. Alai 01:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Support, and suggest following the existing geo-stub names with SanMarino-politician-stub and IsleofMan-politician-stub. As for B/H, the geo-stub currently uses the unlikely BiH-geo-stub. I'd suggest either Bosnia-politician-stub or BosniaHerzegovina-geo-stub, and can see a lot of sense in getting the geo-stub renamed at SFD. Grutness...wha? 05:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Re. the harmlessness, I've tried to ensure that the Croatia- and Serbia- templates are only used on material directly related to those two countries, rather than Herceg-Bosna or Republika Srpska, and the same rule obviously applies to Albania vs. its north eastern neighbour. Agree with {{IsleofMan-politician-stub}} and {{SanMarino-politician-stub}}. Regarding the Bosnian issue, the generics and bios have the form "BosniaHerzegovina-" with a redirect to "BiH-" (which means "Bosna i Hercegovina") so {{BosniaHerzegovina-politician-stub}} would be most consistent with the rest of the material, unless we rename the entire Bosnian material. I have no problem with slashing the reference to Herzegovina, but we should ensure consistent naming between the four templates. It might be an idea to add a Sanmarinese bio template right away, and if needs be, I can make counts for the last European nations missing a -bio template. I'll start with speedying some of the Latin American material and when we're certain about the name for Bosnia, I'll do the same here. AWB might as well do the lot in one pass. Valentinian T / C 08:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll add {{Latvia-politician-stub}} as well. Don't know why I missed it the first time. (38 articles, upmerged template). Valentinian T / C 15:20, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good and Well, you'll do your very best! Caerwine Caer’s whines 15:10, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Glad you read the article. It is the English-speaking world's loss that this sketch is so little known outside of Continental Europe.
Back to the stubs. Based on the discussion above, it looks like we'll go with {{Albania-politician-stub}}, {{BosniaHerzegovina-politician-stub}}, {{Estonia-politician-stub}}, {{IsleofMan-politician-stub}}, {{Latvia-politician-stub}}, {{Montenegro-politician-stub}} and {{SanMarino-politician-stub}}. No objection if we later rename the entire Bosnian material. I don't even want to imagine what the proper adjectival form of Bosnia and Herzegovina is. "Bosno-Herzegovinian" would probably have worked 100 years ago. Valentinian T / C 23:51, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
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Mauritius-bio-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
I find exactly 40 biographies in the 154 member Category:Mauritius stubs. So I propose {{Mauritius-bio-stub}} with categories Category:Mauritius stubs and Category:African people stubs, and Category:Mauritian people stubs once that number reaches 60. For the record, {{Mauritius-geo-stub}} is only used on 45 articles, so it does not need a category yet either. Picaroon (Talk) 19:21, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Support per nom. Valentinian T / C 22:02, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Support - and don't worry, I keep a regular eye on national geo-stubs :) Grutness...wha? 05:58, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Worry? You just admitted you had a little list (grin). Valentinian T / C 08:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but AfD is the list of little stubs that never would be missed :) Grutness...wha? 12:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Don't forget to create a {{Mauritius-politician-stub}} for good measure--Thomas.macmillan 02:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
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Rwanda-politician-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
A scan of the 69 member Category:Rwandan people stubs gets 30 politicians, plus a soldier or two who could be counted as a politician. I guess this is just enough (per the box in the header) for a template with Category:East African politician stubs and Category:Rwandan people stubs as parents. Picaroon (Talk) 02:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Support per nom. And thanks for taking an interest in the African material. Not enough people do. Valentinian T / C 22:13, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
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Kenya-sport-bio-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
A scan of Category:Kenyan people stubs finds 53 sportspeople, so I propose {{Kenya-sport-bio-stub}}. This stub would be a child category of {{Kenya-bio-stub}} and {{Africa-sport-bio-stub}}, and a parent of {{Kenya-athletics-bio-stub}}. For the record, I only got 29 politicians, so not quite enough for their own template yet. Picaroon (Talk) 00:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Darn. I didn't pay enough attention to the potential child category. Since we have 53 articles, creating Category:Kenyan sportspeople stubs right away might be a good idea, even if the numbers are a bit thin. Valentinian T / C 21:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
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Eritrea-politician-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
A scan of Category:Eritrean people stubs finds 55 politicians, so I propose {{Eritrea-politician-stub}}. Child of {{Eritrea-bio-stub}} and {{East-Africa-politician-stub}}. Picaroon (Talk) 00:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Impressive. A year ago, we had less than 10 articles or so. Support template, category when 60. Valentinian T / C 06:58, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Correction: When I did my last count in March last year, we had 1 relevant article. Amazing. Valentinian T / C 20:50, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
That is very interesting, and out of only 80 members too - I hope I didn't count wrong! Picaroon (Talk) 22:48, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
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Africa-bank-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
A scan of Category:African company stubs finds fortynine banks; I have not checked Category:Bank stubs, but there are probably a few more in there. Plus, there are plenty of large, notable banks which don't have articles yet. So I propose {{Africa-bank-stub}} as child stub of {{Africa-company-stub}} and {{Bank-stub}}. Picaroon (Talk) 00:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, at least as a template and probably as a category as well. Stubsense gives at least 38 more with African country-stub templates in Category:Bank stubs, plus 19 Africa-company-stubs. Don't know how much overlap there is, but that seems to indicate quite a bit of potential. Grutness...wha? 01:01, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Valentinian T / C 23:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
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Latin American politicians

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The result of the debate was create.
I've done a count and it looks like a lot of Central and South American nations could do with an upmerged -politician template:


If anybody is interested in the rest of the list, those figures are: French Guiana: 1, Guyana: 16, Suriname: 8, Belize: 13. The case of Belize is a bit annoying since this proposal will leave Belize as the only country in Central America without a more precise template. In any case, upmerged {{Belize-bio-stub}} and {{Suriname-bio-stub}} templates seem in order, so we might as well create them right away. Valentinian T / C 20:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Strong Support. I see no reason not to speedy these and any other bio-templates created. Just my two cents, but I think every single country should have a national template, bio-stub, geo-stub and probably even a politician-stub. Do we have a consensus to create up-merged templates when we see fit and come here for categories?--Thomas.macmillan 20:25, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Those four would be my first priorities as well, although some of you may call me biased on this issue. ;) In any case, we need to do something about the missing generics, bios and geos (see my list here). Looking at some of the edit histories, I can see that I've sorted many articles three or four times; adding {{politician-stub}}, adding {{country-stub}}, changing to {{country-bio-stub}}, changing to {{continent-politician-stub}} and now changing to {{country-politician-stub}}. This process could have been simpler.
Re. the categories, I don't see the need to come asking for the approval for categories if a template is uncontroversial and simply upmerged due to the size criterion. It should be enough to have 60 relevant stub articles and to name the category consistently with its colleagues. Of course, anybody making these changes should remember to update WP:WSS/ST accordingly. Valentinian T / C 20:42, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
And French Guiana still hasn't got a generic template. The material for this area is so thin, it could almost qualify for Wikipedia's equivalent to the Bermuda Triangle or Area 51. Valentinian T / C 20:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
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Somalia-politician-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
A scan of Category:Somali people stubs finds forty eight politicians, including four or five warlords. So I propose {{Somalia-politician-stub}} as a child stub of {{Somalia-bio-stub}} and {{East-Africa-politician-stub}}. Picaroon (Talk) 21:03, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I proposed this one back in December [1] but never got around to creating it. Speedy create Valentinian T / C 21:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm unfamiliar with the workings of this page. Does speedy create mean I can create it now? If so I'll go ahead. Picaroon (Talk) 22:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
We normally wait 5 days, but in this case, a couple of days will probably be enough unless we hear any massive protests (which is very unlikely). In any case, the specific category should wait till we get 60 articles, so the template should use the same format as {{Croatia-politician-stub}}. Valentinian T / C 23:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
In this case, it's already been debated (as V pointed out above), so if there were going to be any protests, we'd probably already have heard them. So technically yes, you can go ahead immediately, but it's better to wait a day or so just to be on the safe side. No need to wait the full five days, though. Grutness...wha? 23:19, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Alright, noted. Picaroon (Talk) 00:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I see no reason not to speedy the template -- by which I mean, immediately-speedy, not Grutness-speedy :) -- though I'd prefer to wait until there's 60 before creating the category (the "demand" not being otherwise urgent). Alai 09:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I'm creating it. Agree on the category ({{Croatia-politician-stub}} is upmerged so that's why I referred to that one). Valentinian T / C 15:13, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
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CapeVerde-footy-club-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
Cape Verde needs all the standard templates (bio and politician, has geo) and is around 200. The top category I can see passing the standard is, surprisingly, {{CapeVerde-footy-club-stub}}. We should create a {{CapeVerde-footy-stub}} then this as a subcat, upmerged at first, very likely its own category once fully sorted.--Thomas.macmillan 18:36, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

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Liberian people stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
This was discussed sometime ago when we created a Liberian politician stubs category, but no Liberia-bio-stub. Hand count reveals 42 potential Liberia-bio-stubs. Politician-stub is around 90. What do you think of creating a Liberia-bio-stub and the associated category, even though it falls below the standard 65 (with the politician-stub already existing)?--Thomas.macmillan 01:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Support the missing template. This material must have grown quite a bit lately. Valentinian T / C 15:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Btw, we already have Category:Liberian people stubs but only has a holder for the -politician child. No -bio template exists. Valentinian T / C 11:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:European Olympic medalist stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
I tangentially alluded to the number of Germans and Russians in an earlier discussion involving the (oversized) medalists. This would imply the viability of an upmerger-target European category. Any objections if I speedy? Alai 19:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

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Category:Chechen people stubs

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The result of the debate was keep template, upmerge to Russia-bio-stub, send cat to sfd.
I'm really awfully sorry but I have already created a new stub category before I read the rules regarding proposal and creation. I don't know if it should be deleted or if it can remain as it is but the stub category I created can be found here Category:Chechen people stubs, it is listed under Caucasian people (which is listed under European people). I have chosen to create the category because I am writing articles about Chechen separatist fighters who can hardly be listed under the Russian bio stubs. There are quite a lot of articles on Wikipedia that will fit the tag, so if the category is allowed to exist, I will add them to the list. ForrestSjap 10:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

  • By the "recognised borders of modern states" criterion, they are Russian bio stubs (and if this remains, it should certainly be subcatted as such). I think given the circumstances, this does make sense as a subdivisional split, at least if there's 60 such stubs. Otherwise, upmerge to you-know-where. Alai 18:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Ok, I'm fairly new to this game so I hope I understood you correctly. What you are saying is that I need at least 60 stubs to justify the existence of this category and even then it should be a subcategory of Russian people stubs and not of Caucasian people stubs? ForrestSjap 19:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Yup. Though I think one could plausibly hedge one's bets and make it a subcat of both. Alai 19:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
        • Alright, seems like a fair deal. It's gonna be tough finding 60 stubs though. I might have to create 40 of them myself in order to comply. Should there be a subcategory for Pro-Russian Chechens as well? The category I created refers to the (separatist) Chechen Republic of Ichkeria and the image used is the separatist flag. Pro-Russian ethnic Chechens would not want to be listed in this category. ForrestSjap 20:07, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
          • This template should be deleted, per previous precedent. We don't sort by ethnicity or race and the flag is the one of a rebel organization which will be POV to many readers. In addition, we have the size criterion of 60 stub articles for a template, and I can't imagine us having that much Chechen material. Sorry, but I just don't see this one making it. Valentinian T / C 21:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
            • I didn't realize this was supposed to be ethnic or factional; strongly oppose that. If (and only if) the scope is "people notable in connection with the Russian federal subject of Chechnya" (on the same basis that we have Texas-bio-stub for people notable in connection with the US state, not for Texan separatists (or indeed for people that just happen to be born there)), then I think it's OK (presumably upmerged). Alai 23:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
              • What I wrote above is just my impression, but the template is used on 1 article, it is named {{Chechnya-bio-stub}} so the form reminds me of a "country-bio-stub", even though an independent Chechnya isn't recognized by anybody, it uses a flag which is no doubt outlawed in Russia, the parent category used is Category:Caucasian people stubs rather than anything connected with Russia. Flag of Chechnya shows the difference between the flags, and this one is the one of the so-called Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. If we don't allow these templates for other problematic cases, we shouldn't allow them here either. I am of course aware that we still have one exception from this rule - {{Transnistria-stub}} - and I still oppose that one. Valentinian T / C 00:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
            • I'm also of the opinion that having stub types for unrecognised areas is not a good idea - it can lead to editwarring -which is trouble enough even when there aren't templates involved. In the case of a stub type for Chechnya (and the same applies to the one for Transnistria, which I also still oppose), it is a problem from the point of view of "unrecognisd state", and also - since the stub under discussion is a bio-stub - from the point of view of subnational region bio-stub if Chechnya is not regarded as independent. Either way, it's a bit of a problem. Grutness...wha? 01:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
          • Maybe I should remove the flag and the reference to the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (simply referring to Chechnya instead) and list it as a subcat of the Russian Federation, that way it would be more or less like the Texas bio stub category described above. But maybe for the moment it should be removed because I don't think I'll be able to find the 60 required stubs. ForrestSjap 07:34, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Support upmerged template and good faith efforts. Her Pegship (tis herself) 14:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
    • What does this mean? ForrestSjap 15:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Upmerger means keeping the template (on the basis of it being sensibly scoped), but getting rid of the category (on the basis of it being too small a population). Instead, the template would "feed into" the existing category's parent(s). Or did you mean the good faith part? :) Alai 15:21, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
        • I feel like an idiot but I still have no idea what's going on, I've already explained I'm fairly new to this thing :) So which is the template and which is the category? And what is the category's parent into which the template will feed? I've just checked and everything appears unchanged. And yes, please also explain the good faith part. ForrestSjap 16:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands geography stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
Yup, lovely long category name... seems someone's been busy since my last count of the geo-stubs and has created 100 geo-stubs on SG&tSSI. Already templated, just needs a category. Speediable? Grutness...wha? 00:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

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Rolling Stone

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The result of the debate was do not create.
As in the music magazine. There aren't a ton of candidates ATM, but there are likely to be more "Top 100 Such-and-Such" lists in the future, and they will probably start out as complete copy/pasted lists that will need to be culled for copyright, rendering them stubs (but cool stubs that contain useful and fun info, and do grow with time regarding e.g. statistics, trivia, etc). I just created such a stub (as necessitated by the most wanted articles list) and saw a bunch of other magazines but no Rolling Stone, so I thought I'd give it a mention. Regards! --Segaba 22:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

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{{Canada-radio-bio-stub}} / Category:Canadian radio personality stubs

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The result of the debate was create as revised.
Canadian people stubs are over 1000 articles, and this seems like a viable split, over 60, from what I've gathered. Crystallina 14:27, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

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Split of the behemoth writer-stub

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The result of the debate was create by continent, then upmerged templates by countries listed until viable.
Writer-stub is around 1350 stubs. There are a few geographic breakdowns (Africa, South America, South Asia, Middle East) and some national breakdowns, but obviously there is a need for more. I'd suggest a Caribbean-writer-stub, France-writer-stub, SouthAfrica-writer-stub and be very open to any others editors can see. Also, I have seen that it is in desperate need of stubsorters attention, as many of them already fit into existing categories.--Thomas.macmillan 01:27, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Rib-crackingly strong support. I'll see if I can crunch some useful numbers, but if a large amount of that growth is in the past month, that might not be of much use until another two or three weeks, depending on how the db dumps are (or are not) progressing. Alai 01:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Not able to offer much help at present; only unsorted UK and US are anywhere around 60. After that, there's 21 from the Caribean, 15 from NZ, 6 from Oz and 6 from Thailand. Alai 04:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Finishing the by-continent split might be useful (Asia and Oceania are missing), and a support to the others mentioned (except that we already have {{France-writer-stub}} - it's a subtype of the Euro one. Looks like it's mainly massive undersorting, though. Grutness...wha? 01:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong support. Templates where necessary, categories when 60. Undersorting is very likely with this material. Impressive that we have {{SAsia-writer-stub}} (with {{India-writer-stub}} as a child) but not {{Asia-writer-stub}}. We already have templates and categories for China and the Philippines. Templates for Bangladesh, Iran, South Africa, Israel, Hungary, and Greece would make sense according to Stub Sense [2] Valentinian T / C 22:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Libya-bio-stub

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The result of the debate was create.
Hand count reveals 65 bio's under Libya-stub.--Thomas.macmillan 17:30, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

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Category:Science fiction novel stubs by decade

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The result of the debate was create by decade.
Almost at 800; I'm assuming we'll want to go with the now-standard per-decade split. Alai 07:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

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Category:American novelist stubs sub-types

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The result of the debate was create.
Over 800. By genre? Best I can find on existing (if admittedly month-old) categorisation would be "crime", and "mystery", both in the 40s. (Maybe they can be smooshed together to make one good one.) By YoB? Alai 09:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

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Australian rules biography sub-types

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The result of the debate was create by DoB.
This is now over 800, and there seem to be no by-position cats. We could split by YoB, or my league (seemingly not all of these have played at the "top level". Alai 08:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

From a quick glance, I would say most of them did play at something reasonably equivalent to the "top level" at the time. However, splitting by league (including splitting the VFL/AFL at the 1990 name change) to have cats for modern AFL and each of the older state leagues, might work. Of course there would be a lot of articles that fit more than one cat. JPD (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
That would seem to achieve much the same effect as splitting by decade of birth (as I should have said, to be a bit more specific), then, only less so. (Given the relatively predictable nature of someone's peak playing years in any (physical) sport.) Alai 23:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Except that pre-1990 would also be split by state. Decade of birth may be better, though. JPD (talk) 17:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Given the fact that the top league seems to have changed once or twice I would support by decade of birth. Waacstats 20:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I see. That'd work, then, at least if there's some systematic way of dealing with people who played in different leagues. Alai 06:30, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
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{{Islam-country-stub}}

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The result of the debate was create as proposed.
Islam-stub is currently numbering around 800 and I would like to create a stub for the Islam in insert country here articles, of which their are 98 currently as stubs. I'd be very open to a better name, this is just the one I thought of off the top of my head.--Thomas.macmillan 15:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

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Canadian actors by medium

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The result of the debate was split by medium first; split remainder by DoB.
Canuck thesps are now oversized. Traditionally, we've split first by medium: "television" would be viable, as would "screen". "Film" is less clear cut: 225 are in the film subtree, but only 36 are in only that one. "Stage" looks to be a ways off (57 in it total, 8 only in that one). Or, we could procede directly to DoB. Alai 06:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

  • I think splitting television and stage would be best for now. Monni 11:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Mmmm. If you think so, though in many ways, DoB is simpler. People only tend to have one of them (unless there's a very strong wind blowing :), though a lot of actors perform in various different media - hence the problem with film. But since the precedent is for medium, I'm not going to kick up a fuss if that's the split of preference. Grutness...wha? 12:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
    • To which add on a mundane note that (at time of last db dump) 395 had (one or more) "by medium" cats, 587 had a DoB cat (or more?). So bot-sorting by DoB would get the bulk of those (give or take some upmerging for teeny decades (and indeed, centuries), by medium would only get a couple of hundred until such time as someone re-sorted by hand. OTOH, either would take care of the immediate oversizedness... Alai 14:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Support both. How about we split by medium first, then by DoB? Her Pegship (tis herself) 17:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Italian scientist stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
Parent oversized; seems to be about 81 of these by permcat. Alai 07:25, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

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{{Australia-lit-stub}}

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The result of the debate was do not create.
was {{Australia-novel-stub}} baby_ifritah 23:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

About half the articles in Category:Australian novels from my check are or should be classified as stubs. I would really like this stub notice set up so that we can start fixing this. xx baby_ifritah 10:50, 5 May 2007 (UTC) 

  Aus·tra·lian (ô-strāl'yən) pronunciation
  adj.
  
  1. Of or relating to Australia or its peoples, languages, or cultures.

Plus an "Australia novel" sounds silly, you wouldn't say "American novel" instead of an American novel.

altered stub name to conform with this. baby_ifritah 00:16, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Do we really want to start splitting novels by country, anyway? You might want to run this past WP:NOVEL, who seem to have favoured genre and decade, previously. Alai 18:55, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
have left a note for them there, but they have listed nationalities as an area yet to be established. baby_ifritah 00:16, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Not sure I see too much value in this at present - but I don't have much of an object really. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 08:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
an oz lit stub works for me. was hoping to get both because we're starting an Australian literature WikiProject now. But wem can just to start with the one, and see how we go. note change above. baby_ifritah 23:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
    • At the risk of slapping a sleeping dog with a wet fish, this is one area we will have to be very careful about noun vs adjective. Although it makes little difference with Australia, the differences between Spain-lit-stub and Spanish-lit-stub, for example, is massive. Grutness...wha? 00:58, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Good to see you havent lost your sense of irony gruttie - good stuff - maybe we will get you on the Australian project yet - So the above means we have now

Australia-lit-stub for the new project? SatuSuro 01:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

What I would say here is you need to be sure that the purpose of the stub is all this Literature "how it currently is proposed" or for Novels specifically which is just one branch of literature. If you choose literature it will go wel beyond novels or even fiction it will as is obvious all matters relating to writing. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 08:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The Spain-lit / Spanish-lit point sounds very helpful. Is there an English-lit category? Perhaps that's what is needed. It would cover novels and poems, plays and screen plays. It would even cover works translated into English -- "Rubbaiyat of Omar Khayyam" by Fitzgerald jumps to mind ... very English in the cultural sense, though translated from the Persian.
Clearly US-novel and UK-novel are very large subsections of English-lit. Perhaps Australian-lit is now big enough at Wiki to have its own stub class. What about Canadian-lit?
There is always going to be some ambiguity with literature of languages regarding noun and adjective, because so many languages are named as adjectives of the location or people who use the language -- Portuguese, Japanese, Indonesian, Swedish, Norweigan, Greek. Of course, there are also generics like Arabic, Hebrew, Mandarin, Cantonese, Swahili, Afrikaans, German, French and Latin.
UK-novel and US-novel work because the acronym hides whether the use is noun or adjective, and because they are so well known as English speaking countries. NZ-novel for New Zealand would work the same way, but Canada has the same issues as Australia.
Can we have Australian-lit-stub please people, please, please. There are a number of Australian poets, who are very distinctly Australian, as well as playwrites. Alastair Haines 23:43, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't follow that last. Unless I'm missing something, there isn't the same sort of distinction between "Australian literature" and "the literature of Australia" as there is in the Spanish case (i.e. language vs. nationality). So there's absolutely no reason the template shouldn't follow exactly the same pattern as every other such template, i.e. Australia-X-stub (see the numerous -geos and -bios of that ilk). (If you're just arguing for the scope, rather than the particular name, ignore this; I have no strong feelings either way, let's just not start splitting up topics too many different ways at once.) Alai 23:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. Is this the issue.

  • Spanish-lit is ambiguous but Spain-lit, Colombia-lit, Argentina-lit are not, they are subsets of Spanish-lit
    • They wouldn't necessarily be subsets of Spanish-lit, because they might include literature written by South American authors in English. The literature categories tend to be sorted by the writer's nationality, less often by language, particularly since many writers create works in more than one language.
  • English-lit could be ambiguous but UK-lit, US-lit, NZ-lit are not (NZ is for New Zealand, an English speaking country)
  • What about Canada-lit or Australia-lit? Are they big enough?
    • This is consistent with naming conventions, but the -lit-stubs for these countries are not big enough to split at the moment. Canada-novel-stub or Australia-novel-stub might be.
  • Would Canadian-lit and Australian-lit be ambiguous, because some people might think these are languages?
    • Not ambiguous per se, just out of line with the naming convention for stubs, which is [country]-[noun]-stub, as previously discussed.
  • Do we use Japan-lit or Japanese-lit? The first has technical precision, the second is more natural.
    • We use {{Japan-lit-stub}}, as the stub project goes for technical precision.
  • Is Franz Kafka in German-lit, although he should be in Czech-Republic-lit?
    • We haven't split off those countries yet.
  • Isn't it Australian-lit because it's written by Australians, not Australia-lit because it may not be written in Australia.
    • No, because the Australia- prefix doesn't imply the location it was written, but rather the nationality (born or adopted) of the writer.
  • Is Aus-lit acceptable?
    • Probably not.

PS (Auslan is Australian sign language) Alastair Haines 10:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

    • See my comments above. Your motives are pure, but it's all about naming conventions AND whether the -lit-stubs need splitting. They're only 2 pages' worth. You may see Japan-lit-stub or India-lit-stub, but that's because those countries had enough stub articles to merit a split. Novel-stubs are a few more, but still, they are sorted by period and genre, not by country, so that may make this entire conversation moot. HTH, Her Pegship (tis herself) 17:04, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
  • -novel- is logically a sub-type of -lit-; but are we in practice talking about tagging only existing -lit-stubs (and similar), or are we talking about tagging novels (and short stories) with <country>-lit-stub, too? If we start tagging novels by country (by either means), the trouble is we'll have a three-axis-split on our hands (genre, decade of publication, and country of origin). Alai 19:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Ultimately my view is oppose; continue to use existing stub types and perm-categorize by country. Her Pegship (tis herself) 19:44, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
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Saints by country

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The result of the debate was create.

  • Category:Saint stubs is currently at exactly 800, and "by country" seems to be the main internal organisation of the Category:Saints category tree. UK, Italy, France and Ireland are all at least 75. By year/decade/century of birth seems less promising: leading contender is "missing", at 28, followed by only 3rd, 7th, 16th and 19th that are over 20. Alai 05:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
By country sounds good to me - go for. Grutness...wha? 00:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm guessing most would (more likely should) have a country-bio-stub as well as saint-stub so by country would cut down on double stubbing (That's a Support for by country). Waacstats 11:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
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New Testament papyrus stub

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The result of the debate was proposal withdrawn.

There are more than 100 New Testament papyri. They are very important in New Testament textual criticism -- i.e. recovering the original form of the text from which they were copied. The papyri are particularly important because they are generally the oldest copies we have. Each papyrus has a clearly defined set of basic information. For example: contents, approximate date of copying, location found, location currently housed, dimensions, and so on.

Several of the papyri have very interesting features or history. Some are very small and contribute little information. The project to document the information we have regarding all the papyri is likely to take some time. There are many seminary students who would have access to relevant information, and perhaps the interest to learn more by adding to the series.

If there is any project that would not be swamped by the addition of up to a hundred New Testament papyrus stubs, lets run with that, otherwise what other issues may be important for consideration. Alastair Haines 04:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Any existing stub articles on papyri should be using {{manuscript-stub}} and as Category:Manuscript stubs is hardly overful, it can easily accommodate them until such time as there are enough stubs for a separate stub type. Caerwine Caer’s whines 04:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
  • The main question isn't so much whether there are 100 articles as whether there are 100 stub articles. If there are, some form of stub type seems approrpate, although the current name is too cryptic (note that this is currently at SFD as {{Ntpapyrus-stub}}). Something like NewTestament-manuscript-stub (or possibly NT-manuscript-stub) would be a far better template name. I can't really see any reason why an upmerged template wouldn't be reasonable, even if there are fewer than that. Grutness...wha? 05:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I just learned that 100 refered to number of stubs, not number of articles at the proposal for deletion page. Sounds reasonable to me. I withdraw this proposal.
Sounds like NewTestament-manuscript stub or NT-manuscript-stub might be useful at a later point (there are more than 3,000 NT manuscripts and many are very interesting and well studied).
At the moment, the manuscript-stub is easy to remember and use. I trust Caerwine's judgement that this category is not overful, so those who sort and otherwise keep track of stubs will not be irritated if a few dozen NT related manuscripts (mainly papyruses at this stage) are soon added to it.
I've just discovered another user who had the same idea before me. It looks like there may be at least two of us creating articles and stubs in the area. I'm sure we'll all meet again. Cheers everyone. Alastair Haines 00:38, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
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Theater stage stub

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The result of the debate was do not create.
Under theater, in the art category, the only subcategories are related to film. I have just created a short new article on legitimate theater, and there is no appropriate stub category. I propose the stub, {{Theater Stage}} Preston McConkie 11:20, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

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East Timor stub

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The result of the debate was create.
EastTimor-stub template was proposed way back in December and I created recently. After partial sorting, there are 38 stubs tagged with {{EastTimor-stub}} and 43 stubs tagged with {{EastTimor-geo-stub}}, thus, in total, enough for a Category:East Timorese stubs--Thomas.macmillan 15:22, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

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{{Luxembourg-sport-bio-stub}}

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The result of the debate was create.
Create as an upmerged stub type, putting articles in Category:Luxembourgian sport stubs and Category:Luxembourgian people stubs. This was suggested (and not opposed) back in November 2006, when {{Luxembourg-sport-stub}} was given the go-ahead. Now, there are many more. Manually counting, I find 36. However, that number is expanding rapidly, as I'm currently created stubs for footballers from or in Luxembourg (6 new ones today, although only 2 would be tagged thusly). In a couple of months, it'll be up to 60, and a category can be introduced. Bastin 23:39, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Since there was support for speedy creation, I've gone ahead and created it. Bastin 10:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
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{{UK-bassist-stub}}

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The result of the debate was create.
Same principle as below. British musician stubs are getting large (they're about 20 articles away from being a 5-pager), this seems like a viable split, I'm finding enough to break 60. (I would have proposed them together but for some reason I thought this existed already.) Crystallina 00:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

support as Category:British bassist stubs. Monni 07:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
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Split of Category:Europe political party stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
Though I don't have accurate figures I am sure there are enough for at least templates for the following

I also ask that if these pass, while sorting through the category any other country approaches 30 I can create template for that country along the same line {{foo-party-stub}} and ant template that breaks the 60 barrier gets a category along the lines of Category:Fooian political party stubs. Waacstats 22:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

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{{UK-keyboardist-stub}}

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The result of the debate was create as UK-keyboardist-stub / British keyboardist stubs.
British musicians are getting oversized, this seems like a fairly logical split and I'm almost certain it'll surpass the threshold. (Category name would be whichever we're using now - British or United Kingdom.) Crystallina 20:25, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

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More tree sub-types (starting with Fabaceae)

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The result of the debate was create.
Category:Tree stubs is oversized again. It doesn't seem likely that any sub-cats of Category:Trees are good avenues to split on, and the problem with splitting by subcats of Category:Plants -- most obviously, by taxon -- is that many such will include both trees and non-trees. To take a case in point, there's currently massive double-stubbing of {{legume-stub}} (the family Fabaceae) and {{tree-stub}}, but by no means all legumes are trees, obviously. So to start with, I propose a {{Fabaceae-tree-stub}} / Category:Fabaceae tree stubs to take care of "those legumes which are also trees", and in due course, to deal with other such taxons in a similar way. Alai 15:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

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split Category:Honduras stubs

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The result of the debate was create.

Rough calculation about 60. Matthew_hk tc 14:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Which brings us back to the question about implementing the Alai solution for the generics, bios and geos. If people generally feel this solution would be a good idea, how should we procede? By giving all countries a generic stub first? Go by continent? Any good ideas? And Support of course. Valentinian T / C 15:49, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd tend to think that an upmerged template is a good idea where there's at least a handful of existing stubs, and where the majority of the "sibling" X-Y-stubs already exist. Which isn't to say I'm going to insist on that, since obviously it's an extra layer of hassle to go around creating that many templates, and by country is typically less clear-cut than by subdivision, given the issues of huge inherent disparity in size, and systematic bias. Alai 17:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd personally support creating upmerged generic, biographical and geographical templates for most of the countries "missing" them, and it would probably be a good idea if every country had at least 1 template (many of which will start their lives as upmerged). But since we're talking about a lot of material, it might be an idea to chop this into smaller tasks. E.g. starting with Latin and South America before starting on the next region? Valentinian T / C 21:47, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
If you look at User:Grutness/Geo-stub tallying you'll note that I've already started doing this with geo-stubs (as suggested in an earlier conversation here on this subject). There are a number of small "countries" that need to have some sort of consensus reached as to naming or status, but as of now most of the others have at least a geo-stub. Grutness...wha? 02:03, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
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split Category:Caribbean stubs

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The result of the debate was create.

Create Template and categories for the following countries and region. Matthew_hk tc 14:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Templates, certainly; do current stub populations justify categories for all? Alai 14:14, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong support (templates, at least) for Anguilla, Grenada, SaintKittsNevis and StV... but we use {{SaintVincent-geo-stub}}, so just {{SaintVincent-stub}} would make sense there. As for Netherlands Antilles, believe it or not, I'm going to oppose that one. Why? NA is undergoing a constitutional change at the moment, and may no longer exist as an entity within the next few months. I'd have no objection to a separate Aruba-stub, which might clear some of the backlog, but until its decided exactly what's going to happen with the other islands, I think we'd do well to steer clear of that one. Grutness...wha? 01:02, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Presumably the NA would ideally be dealt with by per-island templates, feeding into... well, somewhere or other. Alai 04:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Since Aruba is already under the current arrangements separate from the Netherlands Antilles (and has been since 1986) it wouldn't be included anyway, so setting up a {{Aruba-stub}} is an independent question. The NA have set a date for dissolution, December 15, 2008. Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustatius will become part of the Netherlands proper as special municipalities, though they will have differences (such as not being in the Euro zone, but keeping their U.S. dollar pegged currency). Curaçao and Sint Maarten are to have status aparte, the same as Aruba. Caerwine Caer’s whines 18:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Right of course - it was a slight brainfart on my part - it was Curacao-stub I meant, not Aruba. Mind you, an Aruba one would also be useful. BTW, similar constitutional changes are also going on in France's Caribbean islands, another area which needs some thought before making templates. Grutness...wha? 02:23, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Seem there is not enough stub for Anguilla, Montserrat, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Saint Martin, i just not create Template for them. And US Virgin Islands, UK Virgin Islands, should more deeply discussed. Matthew_hk tc 07:27, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
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More informative Stub template proposal

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The result of the debate was do not create.
I am not sure where to put this query. I came here from a link saying "Put your stub proposals here".

The current stub format is too banal and one becomes inured to seeing these stubs everywhere on Wikipedia so that readers do not feel induced to write. I would like to make the stub comments more informative, with a format such as {{stub | COMMENT}}, that would translate to This article is a <COMMENT>. You can help Wikipedia.... The specificity of the comment may induce more readers to contribute. This also avoids the word "stub" which has been diluted through overexposure on Wikipedia. For example, I removed a stub remark on Venod Sharma with this fragment from the stub template:

This article is lacking in the pre-2000 record of Venod Sharma. You can help Wikipedia by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it]

while I think this is more useful, it lacks any categorization. I could try to make up a stub like this (e.g. see Template:dablink), but I am sure something like this already exists... Sorry for disturbing the tranquility of this page. mukerjee (talk) 03:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

That would require a lot of effort, since it would basically involve adding a parameter to every stub template and would require stub sorters to know exactly what is missing to an article, which isn't always possible. It would also considerably slow down stub sorting (it wouldn't be possible to add the information to these new parameters via a bot, or in quick batch sorting). It sounds a nice idea, but I just don't see it being practical - it's far easier to simply list articles on a particular subject that are stubs, and leave it to the editors to work out exactly what needs expanding on them. Grutness...wha? 06:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
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Some new categories from existing templates

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The result of the debate was create.
After my last marathon nomination and stub sorting some of the proposed templates got rather fuller than expected and reached 60 articles so I propose the following categories;

and one earlier proposed template as reached 60

Waacstats 13:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Add to that

Waacstats 14:33, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

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Pre-1930 comedy film stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
As a parallel to the Category:Pre-1930 drama film stubs, to cover the remainder of the generic {{comedy-film-stub}}. This would include the 3 templates that would feed into this (1910s, 1920s, 1930s). I have gone through the generic stub, and the list that is currently here Category:Comedy film stubs is a pretty good guess at the number involved - about 115 or thereabouts. SkierRMH 08:06, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The main reason to have Category:Pre-1930 drama film stubs is to help separate out the articles with the per decade templates from those that don't and thus need further sorting. No problem with creating the templates, but given the numbers involved, I don't see a need for a separate category as of yet. Caerwine Caer’s whines 18:44, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
OK, I'm confused... the proposed Category:Pre-1930 comedy film stubs is to help separate out the article with the per decade templates from those that don't and thus need further sorting. The current Category:Pre-1930 drama film stubs has 73 stubs, which the 3 stub templates feed into. The proposed Category:Pre-1930 comedy film stubs will have about 115 (more than the drama). It would also beg the question as to where the 3 proposed decade templates would feed into. Obviously not one of the other decade templates, and not the generic (the whole idea is to get them out of there).SkierRMH 19:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Support per the Precedent set by the drama films, as User:SkierRMH says this category will be larger than Drama films but not large enough that any template will be immediatly viable so size should not be a problem and it is a good idea for the same reason as it was a good idea for the Drama films.Waacstats 13:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Question: What does this category achieve that using What links here on {{comedy-film-stub}} does not? I can somewhat see the need as an aid to navigation when the base category reaches 200+ stubs, but not when there is but a single page of results returned by the category as is currently the case with Comedy film stubs. Caerwine Caer’s whines 16:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Went ahead and created the 1910s and 1920s templates (found some films that had already been given those templates by the way as a result) and sorted Comedy films thru E. (Will get to the rest later if someone, or some bot does not do so first.) Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:35, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Sub-categorization of that group completed. And to the prior question, the parent categories such as "Comedy films" are the {{Catdiffuse}} - they're to be diffused into sub-categories. There is no sub-category that covers all the films before 1930. Right now there are about 108 articles that would go in there. And, once completed, it would give a good indication of the "leftover" films that need attention, such as:
It's often the articles that are mis-categorized/stubbed that call attention to themselves for "special" care! SkierRMH 08:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Support, per similar such. The categories don't have to be precisely parallel (though it seems to work out that way in this case), but the templates should certainly be. Alai 14:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Well if you're bound and determined to do this, there is a problem. The 1920's have enough for category of their own and that would leave only the 1910s template which has but 22 stub articles attached to it. The prospect of either a 1900s or an 1890s template seem s remote with no 1900s article and only one 1890s article tagged as a stub at present. So it probably would be best to create that as Category:1910s comedy film stubs rather than Category:Pre-1920 comedy film stubs. Caerwine Caer’s whines 14:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that rises to the level of being any sort of problem, but at any rate, I'd be happy with either the '20s cat (and no 10s cat), or a pre-1930 cat, as above. Probably a slight preference for the latter, for symmetry and "mopping up" purposes. Alai 15:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
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Chabad stub

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The result of the debate was create.
There are many articles in the Chabad section that require stubs, and the Judaism stub is not specific enough IMHO. Yehoishophot Oliver 15:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Do you have an idea about how many articles this applies to? Valentinian T / C 10:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
At least 60 now, and more and more new ones are sprouting up. Yehoishophot Oliver 08:44, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
In that case Support {{Chabad-stub}} with category Category:Chabad stubs. I guess the most natural parents would be Category:Judaism stubs stub-wise and Category:Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidism permcat-wise. Valentinian T / C 23:08, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Any reason why the cat name shouldn't follow the permcat and be Category:Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidism stubs? Grutness...wha? 23:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
You're probably right, G. My only reason was that I was thinking along the lines of the names used by the similar categories. I don't have any problems with the long name. Valentinian T / C 13:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
There are two reasons for the suggestion - first the old "like following like" idea, and secondly, there would be more people who would recognise the word "Hasidism" than "Chabad" - I for one hadn't a clue what Chabad referred to just from the heading alone, but Hasidism (or Hasidic, at least) is far more widely-known word. Grutness...wha? 05:07, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Support Stub. Shlomke 16:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

It's been 5 days, so I created the stub. Yehoishophot Oliver 23:27, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

You may have created it, but you didn't link it into a stub category properly! Calling a page "Cat:Chabad-Lubavich Hasidism stubs" does not a category make. That's now fixed, and the stub category has proper stub and permcat parents. Grutness...wha? 09:49, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! I'm still learning the technical side of Wikipedia.Yehoishophot Oliver 10:05, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
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European film director stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
Film director stubs are both already oversized and extremely undersorted from {{film-bio-stub}}. Unfortunately, I haven't found any country that reaches 60 (France is closest at about 43-ish, but that would ransack its main film-bio category.) So I propose {{Euro-film-director-stub}}, at least for now. Crystallina 10:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Okay, did some more digging. Italian film directors comes out to 57. I'm sure I can find 3 additional stubs somewhere. So I also propose {{Italy-film-director-stub}} and category. 10:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong support, though I'd have my usual preference for (double-)upmerged by-country templates in addition to, or ideally instead of, the continental template. Alai 15:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Krishna district geography stubs, and Andhra Pradesh otherwise

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The result of the debate was create.
AKA a subcat of Category:Andhra Pradesh geography stubs, which is now oversized. Beyond this one, nothing is obviously over threshold, though Srikakulam, Adilabad and Visakhapatnam are 40 or over, by permcat (on old data), so may be closer than meets the eye. Beyond that, there's the option of per-district templates, pro temps upmerged to the handy-if-unofficial regions of Coastal Andhra, Telangana and Rayalaseema. Alai 21:48, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

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Category:American journalist stubs subcats

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The result of the debate was create US-sportswriter-stub, then see what's left.
Horrendously oversized (up to #18 with a bullet, and 1145 stubs). We could try to split this by type-of-journo: there are subcats for "reporters and correspondents", one for "columnists", and one for "sportswriters", all hovering around the 45-50 mark (and might well be viable with some hand-sorting); or else by the currently-popular technique of sawing them in half and counting the rings, on which basis the 19th century births, the 50s, and the 60s would be over 60 (lump others to taste). Alai 21:36, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

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Category:Alberta geography stubs sub-types

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The result of the debate was create Edmonton & Calgary geo types.
Oversized; on the face of it, this would be a straightforward split:

per the nice diagram on the article on any of those regions. However, lack of categorisation on those lines means that only the Calgary one is guaranteed to be over 60; I suggest we start with that, and revisit the others later (i.e., after categorisation is better, or someone wants to tackle these by hand). Alai 18:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Geo-stub tags for Edmonton and Calgary would be a good idea, the others are hardly needed. There's already {{Calgary-stub}} and {{Lethbridge-stub}} templates in place. --Qyd 00:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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{{MEast-poli-stub}}

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The result of the debate was create.
This is more a case of thinking out loud than a solid proposal, but it seems like it might be useful. I haven't done any sort of count up (I'm having ISP problems at the moment, and can only get a few minutes at a time on WP before I'm automatically disconnected). The idea for a MEast-poli-stub came up during discussions with Tiamut about a Palestine-hist-stub, and it seems a fairly sensible idea, though - as I said - I don't know the figures. Maybe an upmerged stub type? Stubsense suggests that Category:Politics stubs contains a couple of dozen or so candidates, to start with. Grutness...wha? 12:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Given the range of definitions for the "Middle East", I'm not 100% thrilled about this one, though I can see some utility (especially also given the range of definitions of various Middle Eastern states and other entities). But I'd rather see an upmerged per-country-poli-stub used whenever possible. Alai 16:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Comment: -poli-stub is used for people associated with politics but not holding office. Wouldn't it make more sense to start with a {{MEast-politician-stub}} ? At the moment these are simply lumped with {{Asia-politician-stub}}. Valentinian T / C 21:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
That'd be -poli-bio-; I think G. is proposing a "politics" type, not a "politicians" or a "political biographies" one. Alai 23:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I should have seen the difference. My bad. Valentinian T / C 00:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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Greece geo stubs

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The result of the debate was create sans worms.
There are lots of Greece geography stubs, we have subcats (sub-stubs) for some of the eparchies (the highest administrative division of Greece) but not for the others; it's time we create the others (only about 8 more sub-stubs to create). Carlossuarez46 20:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

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History of Palestine

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The result of the debate was create Palestine-hist-stub with clear scope as to region rather than political/national entity.
This proposal arises after discussion at WP:SFD about stubs relating to pre-1948 Palestine. It seems that Palestine, with its long and frequently colourful history, is ripe for having a {{Palestine-hist-stub}}, and it might get us out of the problem of articles for no-longer-extant Palestinian settlements getting only the accurate but inappropriate Israel-geo-stub. I don't know whether there are the required 60 stubs for this, but at the very least an upmerged template seems like a very good idea. it would also be useful for articles dealing with the period of the Mandate, of which there are no doubt quite a few currently unmarked. Grutness...wha? 05:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I think this stub makes a lot of sense and is more versatile that alternatives. I expect it will be widely used for various historical articles in the general subject area. --Abnn 05:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Because of all of the controversy surrounding this topic, I think it would be wise to be very clear about what the scoping would be (Palestinian people, Palestinian territories, British Mandate of Palestine, Proposals for a Palestinian state, etc.). TewfikTalk 05:34, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Testify. :/ Alai 05:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Support The need for this stub arises from a series of articles that spin out of the List of villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Since many of these villages no longer exist, it is inappropriate to place the Israel-geo stubs on them. Because most of them were located in what is now modern-day Israel, it is inappropriate to place the Palestine geo stubs on them (restricted as they are to areas under the jurisdication of the Palestinian Authority). There are more than 60 articles that the stub can be placed on. I also ask that this request be expedited since it will help those working at Wikiproject Palestine to identify and expand these particular articles, many of which have been stubs for some time. Thanks. Tiamut 11:28, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Support per nom, and also ask that this be expedited so that the issues raised at [[Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion#{{1948 Palestine-geo stubs}}]] be resolved. nadav 03:36, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment before any action is taken, I want to ensure that the scoping is clear. If this is to serve the historical region of Palestine, then I'm not sure the "hist" designation is necessary and {{Palestine}} should be used; if it is to deal with the modern Palestinian territories or Palestinian people, a name change might be in order. TewfikTalk 05:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Logically that's true (or rather, {{Palestine-stub}}), and there's precedent in the form of {{Soviet-stub}}. But given the ambiguity (and not to say, controversy) of the term "Palestine", I think the -hist- is a useful "buffer", and possible safeguard against mistaken use. OTOH, it would leave a number of stub templates containing same, with quite distinct scope (the others being scoped as the territories, and/or the PNA's pseudo-jurisdiction). Alai 06:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I don't think I understood: "...containing same" what? TewfikTalk 18:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Containing the element "Palestine", meaning... well, it's not necessarily entirely clear what, but not the region, rather the PNA, or the territories, or the people. If we're going to have different stub types pertaining to "Palestine", but in different sense, then the ambiguity becomes a more pressing concern. Alai 15:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Pre-1960 horror film stub

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The result of the debate was create.
The stubs for Template:1930s-horror-film-stub, Template:1940s-horror-film-stub, and Template:1950s-horror-film-stub were created but they still feed into the Category:Horror film stubs. This proposed category will separate out the articles with the per decade templates from those that don't and thus need further sorting. There aren't enough of them in each of the individual decades to warrant a category for each of them, but like drama & comedy, this will 'round out' the unsorted stubs. SkierRMH 21:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Support for the same reasons as pre1930s-comedy stubs below and Drama precedent. Waacstats 13:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Support per pattern of other decade-based taggings; and quietly boggle that these templates now have hard-coded linebreaks. If this latest piece of... creative stub-coding catches on, double-tagged articles will look like a dog's dinner. Alai 13:42, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
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Cooperatives-stub

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The result of the debate was do not create.
We currently have 173 stubs at WikiProject Cooperatives. I propose creation of {{Cooperatives-stub}}. Gobonobo T C 02:02, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

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Category:European sportspeople stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
I discovered that we are missing the continent parent category for European sportspeople, which is Category:European sportspeople stubs. Africa and Asia are already split. --Thomas.macmillan 01:04, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

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Split 0f Category:Winter Olympics stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
I propose templates for each games of the format {{xxxx-winter-Olympics-stub}} and categories of the format Category:Xxxx Winter Olympic stubs for any that reach 60. Waacstats 22:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

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Split of Category:International cricket tour stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
Another category over 600 articles. The permcat appears to be primarily split by country toured, so I suggest we follow suit with templates for the major test playing nations and categories for any that reach 60. That is: {{Australia-cricket-tour-stub}}, {{NZ-cricket-tour-stub}}, {{England-cricket-tour-stub}}, {{WestIndies-cricket-tour-stub}}, {{India-cricket-tour-stub}}, {{Pakistan-cricket-tour-stub}}, {{SriLanka-cricket-tour-stub}}, {{SouthAfrica-cricket-tour-stub}} and Categories along the lines of Category:International cricket tours of Australia stubs for each template reaching 60 articles. Waacstats 13:07, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

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Split of Category:Rugby union stubs

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The result of the debate was create as foo-rugbyunion-team-stub.
Category is at over 700 articles and a number of them appear to be teams I propose templates some of the major countries and a general template feeding into one category. That is {{England-RugbyUnion-team-stub}}, {{Wales-RugbyUnion-team-stub}}, {{Scotland-RugbyUnion-team-stub}}, {{Ireland-RugbyUnion-team-stub}}, {{Italy-RugbyUnion-team-stub}}, {{France-RugbyUnion-team-stub}}, {{Australia-RugbyUnion-team-stub}}, {{NZ-RugbyUnion-team-stub}}, {{SouthAfrica-RugbyUnion-team-stub}} and {{RugbyUnion-team-stub}} all feeding into Category:Rugby Union team stubs. Waacstats 13:07, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Support all. I am a bit surprised that these don't exist already.--Thomas.macmillan 17:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll happily change all but the Rugby union template uses RugbyUnion so I was following that precedent. Waacstats 12:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Mm. And probably my fault in the first place, way back. Sigh. Perhaps the main stub needs changing... Grutness...wha? 23:27, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
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Split of 2 subcats of Category:American football biography stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
2 subcats are both over 600 articles Category:Defensive back stubs and Category:Defensive lineman stubs. Recently we split the Offensive linemen by decade of birth starting with the 1990s and working back, so I propose we do the same here producing templates along the lines of {{Defesivebacks-xxxxs-stub}} and {{Defensive-lineman-xxxxs-stubs}} and categories along the lines of Category:Defensive back, xxxxs births stubs and Category:Defensive lineman, xxxxs births stubs. Waacstats 13:07, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

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Merge Web-stub into Internet-stub

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was taken to sfd.
There is a lot of confusion about the difference between the Internet and the World Wide Web (roughly, WWW is stuff with http:// or https:// while Internet is everything on-line). As a result, Category:World Wide Web stubs has a lot of articles that should be in Category:Internet stubs, and a few vice versa. Each category has just one page worth of articles, some of which belong in subcategories. Web-stub is the narrower, and more confusing, stub type, so I feel it would be best merged into Internet-stub. -- kenb215 talk 01:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

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