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→‎Articles cited to non-English sources: reply about the comparison
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:A foreign language source is just as accessible as a source behind a paywall - you need some resource (either a language skill or money) to access from a WP:V standpoint, but we definitely don't block paywall sources. We definitely don't want to block foreign sources, though what you describe points to perhaps a article creation pipeline issues, that articles that are simply translations from other wikipedias should possible start in drafts first until they can be reviewed more thoroughly. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 12:21, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
:A foreign language source is just as accessible as a source behind a paywall - you need some resource (either a language skill or money) to access from a WP:V standpoint, but we definitely don't block paywall sources. We definitely don't want to block foreign sources, though what you describe points to perhaps a article creation pipeline issues, that articles that are simply translations from other wikipedias should possible start in drafts first until they can be reviewed more thoroughly. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 12:21, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
::Masem, there is a big difference between a few paywalled sources being cited (which TWL & incognito have pretty much remedied) vs the entire article being cited to foreign language sources. Our job at NPP is to make sure the sources support the material and comply with N. At least paywalled sources are an indication that they are a likely RS, but a list of cited Chinese sources (or whatever other country) that include newspapers like the Beijing Youth Daily (in Chinese), the official newspaper of the Beijing Municipal Committee of the Communist Youth League of China doesn't sound like a RS for verifying a TV series that has not yet been televised or streamed. I may be wrong, so be my guest and read the archived review [http://ent.ynet.com/2021/10/15/3374077t1254.html from the original] and see what you think about the process of actually getting to read the source. It may help explain why we have a 10k to 18k article backlog, and a dwindling number of reviewers. Consider me the canary in the coal mine. I started flapping my wings pretty hard several years ago right here on Jimmy's TP about the coming of paywalls, and started some discussions with {{u|Samwalton9}} – the doer of all doers – and he is still doing!! Kudos again to TWL for stepping up to the plate, and getting it done! But in this situation, I'm at a loss for what direction we should take because we are not talking about one or two sources. It involves bigger numbers, and those numbers are growing. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 23:45, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:46, 12 September 2022


    Request for unlock

    Hello! Is it possible to unlock me in kk-wiki? An illiterate admin blocked me, because I asked him frequently not to input intentionally mistakes in articles and not to be jealous to other users' contribution. Ерден Карсыбеков (talk) 17:03, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    I think that this user is grossly abusing admin rights, when he deletes my comments on his talk page and bans me when I try to recover them. --Ерден Карсыбеков (talk) 19:13, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    When I said him that using nonexistent words was illiteracy by itself (here, 38); he used in his answer very inadequate phrase: Еріккен сарт енегін уқалайды, which had no correlation to anything, and may be considered racist and sexist as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ерден Карсыбеков (talk • contribs) 21:52, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Does Wikipedia support such illiterate and inadequate users? --Ерден Карсыбеков (talk) 10:40, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Hello @Ерден Карсыбеков! I won't be able to help you, but you might get someone to help you if you ask at the Teahouse or the Help Desk. I hope your conflict gets solved! 𝙷𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚘𝚑𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚝 👋❤️ (𝚃𝚊𝚕𝚔🤔) 03:53, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, thank you. --Ерден Карсыбеков (talk) 08:46, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    I think also that it would be good if such inadequate admins would be informed (regularly) about their rights and obligations. --Ерден Карсыбеков (talk) 13:52, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    The Signpost: 31 August 2022

    * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:59, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Important Notice

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    Doug Weller talk 09:24, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles cited to non-English sources

    Jimmy, first of all on a positive note, WP:TWL has been absolutely incredible and the best thing that happened since sliced bread!! The TWL team deserves special recognition for what they have accomplished! Now on to the problems we are facing at NPP and non-English sources. English WP has been getting a steady, rather significant stream of poorly translated, poorly cited articles from other language WPs, which leaves NPP burdened with the task of trying to verify and confirm RS, GNG, N, V, NOR, and NPOV based only on published sources in foreign languages. It is also difficult to ascertain the reliability of non-English online websites that may be cited, and while Google translate helps, it doesn't tell us if the source is a RS which is a bit more difficult to ascertain for reasons beyond language barriers. We already know from the get-go there will be losses in translation, and it is a growing problem, not an occasional one as it was a decade ago. The success of en.WP is probably a big reason for what is happening, but we also need to consider the reasons for its success; that being our ability to maintain quality & neutrality. Unfortunately, we are seeing increased losses of both, along with a steady increase in tagged articles in addition to the numerous decade-old +/- tagged articles, unsourced stubs, and a lowering of the bar for notability, due in part to the inclusionist vs deletionist battleground which recently made its way to ArbCom. However, of even greater concern is the substantial loss of quality and neutrality in some of our contentious topic areas. Foresight tells me that this situation is unsustainable, especially when considering the burn-out rate of experienced volunteers, especially at NPP which is pretty much the last line of defense in keeping non-notable, unverifiable, poorly sourced material out of WP. Was it always the intention of the project to allow foreign language citations/sources for en.WP despite the fact that the very premise of WP:V states: In the English Wikipedia, verifiability means other people using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source? Expecting English speaking people to check non-English sources to verify material is a stretch. If the topic is notable on a global scale, then English sources will be available, and if not, the article belongs in the respective language WP where users/readers are able to properly verify the material, yes or no? Atsme 💬 📧 12:16, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    A foreign language source is just as accessible as a source behind a paywall - you need some resource (either a language skill or money) to access from a WP:V standpoint, but we definitely don't block paywall sources. We definitely don't want to block foreign sources, though what you describe points to perhaps a article creation pipeline issues, that articles that are simply translations from other wikipedias should possible start in drafts first until they can be reviewed more thoroughly. Masem (t) 12:21, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Masem, there is a big difference between a few paywalled sources being cited (which TWL & incognito have pretty much remedied) vs the entire article being cited to foreign language sources. Our job at NPP is to make sure the sources support the material and comply with N. At least paywalled sources are an indication that they are a likely RS, but a list of cited Chinese sources (or whatever other country) that include newspapers like the Beijing Youth Daily (in Chinese), the official newspaper of the Beijing Municipal Committee of the Communist Youth League of China doesn't sound like a RS for verifying a TV series that has not yet been televised or streamed. I may be wrong, so be my guest and read the archived review from the original and see what you think about the process of actually getting to read the source. It may help explain why we have a 10k to 18k article backlog, and a dwindling number of reviewers. Consider me the canary in the coal mine. I started flapping my wings pretty hard several years ago right here on Jimmy's TP about the coming of paywalls, and started some discussions with Samwalton9 – the doer of all doers – and he is still doing!! Kudos again to TWL for stepping up to the plate, and getting it done! But in this situation, I'm at a loss for what direction we should take because we are not talking about one or two sources. It involves bigger numbers, and those numbers are growing. Atsme 💬 📧 23:45, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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