User talk:Elonka

Elonka-Reply

I'll see about putting together a User Page in the next couple of days/weeks. As soon as I get some free time - although given your schedule I should be ashamed to make that statement. 8-) Thanks again. ttonyb1 (talk) 04:31, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Fringe theories

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention. I didn't mean any harm. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 02:16, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, just wanted to make sure you were aware of things. :) --Elonka 02:21, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Good call on the 30 day ban for ScienceApologist, I think... his approach was not at all collaborative. However I'm not sure I follow why you also banned Martinphi for the same period? I reviewed his contributions, and the messages you left him and I'm not seeing it. Can you take me through your reasoning, please? Thanks. Also, where have you placed a notice of this action? At WP:AE? Thanks. ++Lar: t/c 02:52, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm still working through the paperwork, but as a quick reply, the logs were placed at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience. I'll post more once I'm caught up. --Elonka 02:54, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Nod, I crosslinked it from Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive487#Back_to_ScienceApologist. What I'm not clear on is where the best place to discuss this further is, because, as I said, I'm not seeing the clear rationale for Martinphi's restriction here. Paperwork sucks, doesn't it? ++Lar: t/c 03:00, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Aye, especially when the appeals are flying fast and furious before I'm even done logging the initial ban. :) I'm still not caught up yet, but to answer your question, here at my talkpage is probably as good a place as any to talk about this. Or maybe Martinphi's talkpage? In a quick nutshell though: I had previously cautioned him about reverting at WP:FRINGE, especially because he was getting into a back and forth with ScienceApologist. Then today ScienceApologist went right back to reverting, and the very next edit was Martinphi trying to downgrade the guideline to an essay. It was my feeling that this was disruptive, especially since this was just extensively discussed in July, and the strong consensus was that the page should stay a guideline.[1] The ban is fairly mild, on both of them. They're not to edit the guideline, but they are both allowed to participate at the talkpage. Which is probably how things should be done anyway: Discuss first, implement second. If there's a consensus at the talkpage, their changes will get implemented that way, by other editors. And this way neither one of them gets to jump the gun and make non-consensus edits. So we still get the benefit of their participation, sans the edit warring. Make sense? --Elonka 03:11, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Hm.... I think downgrading something that has consensus as an essay to a guideline is not a good thing to do, by any means. But it's not the same level of badness and repeated edit warring with uncollegial summaries to my way of thinking. So the remedy, being exactly equal... seems imbalanced somehow, or disproportionate. I'm interested in more views on this than just mine so that's why I asked about where else to discuss it. Perhaps on AN/I where I crosslinked from? This not being an out and out block, there's time for the paperwork to come to rest, I'm sure. ++Lar: t/c 03:18, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Erm, you realize that the thread you crosslinked, has already been archived, yes? So I doubt anyone will see the post that you added there.[2] --Elonka 03:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

No I missed that. However it itself has been vigorously linked to by at least three people in the developing AN/I discussion. But that's rather a minor point, comparatively. ++Lar: t/c 03:30, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I finally got caught up on the paperwork. I've posted at ANI, let me know if you have any questions. :) --Elonka 06:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Probably best to discuss further there. However... My read is that you almost certainly don't have consensus for the Martinphi pageban, the consensus for SA is marginal at best, and there's a growing consensus that you probably are, in general, not the best admin to be involved in this area, and specifically, not the best admin to be enforcing ArbCom sanctions in this area, going forward. I tend to find myself in agreement. Because unlike Kay the other day, which was a routine action and where your charge of my being involved was pretty off the mark, they have a point, you're pretty invested in this long term. So you might want to address those points, and do so in a way that doesn't just come across as "I'm right and you're wrong", but instead shows a genuine interest in the views of others, and a willingness to modify your views to conform to consensus.

Note carefully that while I may have my doubts about all of this, which I express here, I strongly backed your action at ScienceApologist's page because, unlike you, I think it's a bad practice to undercut other admins right there on the page where the measure is put into effect, that it's better to discuss elsewhere, arrive at consensus for change, and meanwhile stand behind the action of the initial admin. Far less confusing and far more consistent. ++Lar: t/c 16:54, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Martinphi isn't at all sure either about how he could have deserved it. I've already appealed it to the Committee by email, but would much much rather work it out with Elonka and just write and withdraw the appeal. Elonka has done very well in general on these articles, but I think, especially per the explanations I've been posting, that she went overboard in this case, especially in that she treated me the same way as SA- which is not based on my editing. ——Martin^phi ☎ Ψ Φ—— 03:16, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

let the Bard have the last word

"...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." the longer I'm here, the more that wikipolitics astounds me. --Ludwigs2 20:55, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

What may be even scarier, is when/if you get to the point that it doesn't astound you.  ;) --Elonka 23:34, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

yeee-ikes! if I ever get to that stage, please show me where the hidden button on the euthanasia page is (you know, the one that zaps you... or have they moved that over to assisted suicide?). --Ludwigs2 23:41, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

battle of Opis

Hi Please look here: [3] under "misconduct issues". I feel like there is simply an unhealthy atmosphere created by the rude behaviour of a certain admin. More importantly I wanted to ask if an admin has the right to delete items from the archives that are not his own words and do not violate any Wikipedia rules? For example I had listed three scholaly books with quotes in the archives and they had disappeared when the above admin was doing the archiving. He has also driven away different users from the discussion through intidimation and threats of permanent ban. So I have decided to basically not edit that article anymore. Despite my Wikipedia record being clean unlike that admin, I feel like there is an unhealthy bureaucracy where different admins group together to stifle other admins or users who may disagree with their viewpoints. I just wanted to thank you for your previous help. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 23:25, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll be happy to take a look at it, but could you please provide some specific diffs of the actions that you are concerned about? Thanks, --Elonka 23:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. The user deleted these comments when archiving: [4]. These are valid sources but then he calls them WP:OR. And finally when I remention these three valid sources, here is how he interacts: [5] and this is his comment: "I'm inclined to think that a user RfC would help to clarify the problematic behavioral issues concerned, and could provide a final opportunity for the editor in question to take account of feedback." and "Carrot first before stick?"(I do not think that is a right tone for an admin to use when he disagrees with regards to conent with another user). Note, not only comments in archives, but prior to this, he had deleted half of a crucial sentence from another scholar: ChrisO quotes Kuhrt in half(deleting the crucial part of a sentence) and cuts off half of her sentence: [6] and then deletes it from the archives when this is pointed out: [7]. This part was also deleted from the archives. Knowing that ChrisO is an administrator and has his administrator buddies, it is obvious what would happen if I edit the talkpage! Please note, I have over 12000 edits and I have not been blocked even once by admins over the last 3 years or so. I have contributed to a variety of fa articles. Note I have hardly edited the main article where disagreement has occured, where-as ChrisO has broken 3rr on that same article couple of times. One time I wanted to report him for 3rr violation but I took it back, partly due to being nice (he won't obviously do the same since he is looking for a final solution) and partly because of a threat of another admin who seems to be close to him:[8]. Note the part he says:In addition, if you file a report, your own behavior will likely be scrutinized! Actually I did not even do one revert for that article as far as I remember. So that is why I am leaving even the talkpage/userpage of that article as a protest to the fact that an admin can be rude (making the atmosphere non-conducive for any understanding) and threaten bans on users (for disagreeing with his opinion while I have not even edited the article!). --Nepaheshgar (talk) 00:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I am also wondering does that editor have the right to defame other editors: [9] on his personal wiki-space?. For example he writes about me: Very similar problems as with Ariobarzam. Has edit-warred, pervasively pushes OR with regard to Battle of Opis in particular.. Then he writes about Ariobarzan:Edit warring, repeated incivility, pervasive OR, NPOV problems. Has created numerous unsourced/uncited articles based on personal OR. Currently indefinitely blocked. . You can look at how many edits I have made to that article, basically none. And I have never reverted in that article. Also I have never used incivility (ChrisO has in my opinion by threatening to ban users). I am wondering if he can label other editors the way he likes on his personal page:[10] --Nepaheshgar (talk) 14:05, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Just in case this slips under your radar screen, Elonka, Nepaheshgar's remark, 'he (ChrisO) won't obviously do the same since he is looking for a final solution,' in so far as that is the standard English translation of Endlösung, is nudge towards the subtextual innuendo ChrisO's edits are veined with an anti-Semitic cast of mind, a stronger statement than other innuendoes to that effect frequently made in these pages. Thanks Nishidani (talk) 15:32, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

You are misreading my comment and misintrepreting it. The reference was meant to my account and nothing else. By the way, feel free to also comment on ChrisO's comment: "carrots before stick". This shows exactly what type of mentality ChrisO is editing Wikipedia. He feels like he owns it and perhaps it can be taken that he thinks of others who disagree with him as animals (which shows a superiority complex and predujice). --Nepaheshgar (talk) 03:28, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Heads up

I noticed nobody had informed you of this. --John (talk) 06:18, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and yes, I am following all of the discussions. :) --Elonka 16:50, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Out of the Blue question

Hey, after reading your article on here, I was wondering, do you remember, have you given a steganography talk at a colloquium for the CompSci department at the University of Missouri-Rolla (now Missouri S&T) in the last decade or so? (I'm just wondering, as I know I attended one on steganography, and the Kryptos sculpture being mentioned, and all that, and am wondering if it was you.) Thanks! umrguy42 16:54, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Yup, sure was.  :) I've given a couple talks at Rolla, and will actually be there again next week[11] with an updated version of my Kryptos lecture. I'll also be showing the video clip from the PBS NOVAscienceNOW program,[12] and talking about my appearance in that segment. Will you be attending the talk? --Elonka 17:03, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, I decided that 10 years spent in undergrad and grad work there was enough, and I'm now working in Milwaukee, so, alas, I will have to miss it :( But I hope it goes well! umrguy42 17:29, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, well, if you're interested, I'll be speaking at the University of Wisconsin-Madison next April, probably on something to do with Wikipedia.  :) Let me know if you'd like the details. --Elonka 17:39, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Sure, love to know the details, will try and keep that in mind (depends on scheduling, most likely), thanks. Heh, more randomness from the link to MS&T's SIG-SEC announcement - I haven't been able to eat at Kyoto's in Rolla (I think) since they moved into what used to be a gas/service station :p Anyway, best. umrguy42 20:03, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll be posting more deals on my Madison talk on my website,[13] so check there to find out the latest.  :) --Elonka 20:09, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

<-- unindent Hmm, yup, looks like I would've seen you in your Jan. '03 visit to Rolla... would've been the semester right after I had Dr. Ann Miller's "Trustworthy Networks" security course, and was in a course with one of the ACM faculty sponsors (Dr. Daniel Tauritz)... *reminisces briefly* ahhh, good times. Okay, enough irrelevancy, I guess :D Hope to be able to see you in April. umrguy42 20:29, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Block of 142.30.43.228 (talk · contribs)

Hi!

You blocked the above IP for vandalism to Sonic boom. 142.30.43.159 (talk · contribs) and 142.30.43.130 (talk · contribs) also vandalized the same article, likely the same user on a dynamic IP. A range block might be needed on this.

Thanks! SWik78 (talk • contribs) 18:30, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! I've blocked those anons too, and semi-protected Sonic boom. I was looking at Sound barrier as well, but it seems to have stabilized. If you spot any other disruption, let me know or post at ANI/AIV, and we'll take a look.  :) --Elonka 19:34, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Hit the fan

FYI, in case you hadn't noticed, another confirmed sockpuppet of User:Jagz has been contributing on the talk page of Ludwigs2's Wikipedia:Fringe theories/sandbox. Mathsci (talk) 19:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I'd been blocking anons too, but wasn't aware that some of the socks there were Jagz. Thanks for letting me know. --Elonka 19:32, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

There was also User:Deadasamackerel: see the discussion on MastCell's talk page. Mathsci (talk) 19:35, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Yup, and based on the contribs, I concur that it's Jagz. If any others are spotted, let me or any other admin know, and we'll block on sight. I have no patience for block evasion. --Elonka 19:36, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Nickhh

Elonka, I was wondering if you could weigh in about a dispute Nickhh and I are having. If you look at his talk page (the version before he erased my last post) [14], you'll get a pretty good sense of what the difficulty is. In my view, Nick has stalked me to Urban Outfitters, Cynthia McKinney, Second Intifada, and User:PatGallacher's talk page. That I know of -- there may be more pages I simply haven't noticed. I have asked him to stop, but he has responded by calling me a troll [15], telling me I can't count, accusing me of making 4 reverts in 24 hours on Cynthia McKinney (which is clearly not the case) and removing my comment from his talk page. I'm fine with him binning the whole thread on his talk page -- I believe he has that right. But picking and choosing what to keep there to make it look as though I have not responded to him is, I think, out of order. I'm happy to host the whole conversation on my talk page, but it needs to be all together, not misleadingly truncated. Anyway, I believe this probably falls inside the ARBPIA thingie, and I know you are well-versed in it, so guidance would be helpful. IronDuke 23:41, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Good gravy... you posted while I was writing this! IronDuke 23:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The smell of barbecue always brings the neighbors.  ;) Anyway, per WP:BLANKING, he does have the right to remove anything he wants. Though if he's removing or editing your posts to say something different than what you intended, that would be a different matter. I once had a roughly comparable situation, where I went in and deleted everything that I personally had posted, which left the conversation looking like someone was talking to themselves. A bit on the WP:POINTy side, but it did bring the dispute to a close. As for the other articles, I'll take a look, though it may take me some time to come up to speed. Perhaps a nice game of croquet in the meantime? :) --Elonka 23:46, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks... as long as Nickhh leaves me alone, I don't feel the need for anything bad to happen to him -- and I truly believe he will leave me alone, so I'm hoping that's the end of it. The blanking question is curious. I mean, if you write "IronDuke assassinated JFK" on your talk page, wouldn't I have the right to rebut (leaving aside the various ways that comment would violate WP policy)? No biggie, but maybe a whole in the policy. As for croquet, well, it's not really the season, is it? IronDuke 23:50, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, so now the stalking allegation is all over three pages?! Elonka I'd be more than happy for you to review all the articles referred to - as I say, we seem to be talking about 4 articles over a space of 6 months, some of which this user had been nowhere near for months when I dipped in. I recall some interaction on Hamas (in March), so maybe it's 5 in 6 months. That is NOT unusual in this context (nor, if anyone will take my word for it, was it deliberate). Yes I used the T-word, but after being accused of "stalking" and of "needing education" in something I happen to be quite well read on, and being dragged into an interminable discussion on my own talk page. I have absolutely no interest in stalking or following anyone, and actually find it quite offensive that I might need to be told to "leave [someone] alone", even if they generously don't want "anything bad" to be done to me. I mean, as I said, who was posting on whose talk page here? --Nickhh (talk) 00:09, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I said I'm willing to drop this, barring further incident, and that offer still stands. IronDuke 00:13, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm. Dropping this would entail you not repeating that I am a troll over and over again, I think, as you do here. That's a serial NPA violation, when you've just recently been blocked for incivility. IronDuke 00:20, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Er, drop what exactly? Anyway, I'm out of here for now. What a waste of time all round .... --Nickhh (talk) 00:31, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, I could press that you were stalking me. I honestly don't know how people would react. Like a lot of these sorts of things on WP, it depends on who's listening at the moment. But I wasn't of a mind to create more drama; I don't care if you admit that you stalked me, I'm only interested in it stopping. My gut feeling was, after our recent exchange, that it would. However, you continue to call me a troll. In addition to that being 180 degrees wrong, it is a gross violation of NPA (something you recently quoted at me, so I'm sure you know what I'm talking about). You did this even after an administrator specifically told you not to. So... that would also be a thing that needed to stop. IronDuke 03:27, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

IronDuke - stop accusing me of stalking (and of not understanding the varying definitions of the word "revert" among other supposed but more trivial sins), and making those accusations across three different user talk pages now. It's nonsense, and it's the only reason I accused you of trolling (or, in the section I linked to - "pestering and misplaced criticism"). Elonka, perhaps you could direct some of your analytical gaze towards this user, rather than just allowing them to spew their rather surreal allegations everywhere. Maybe for example you could warn them that they should be careful about flinging the word "stalker" about? I seem to recall you've provided a similar admonishment function to me when I've used words you've taken against. --Nickhh (talk) 09:43, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you think I'm accusing you of. You said that Iron Duke has also performed 4 reverts in 24 hours himself in response to my filing a 3rr report on another user. That was false. I pointed out to you that you were wrong, you reassert that I made four reverts, going on to say. Cheers, you're a funny guy. You can't read, you can't count, and you're rude with it.. I tell you once again, that it is you who are wrong, incorrectly labeling as two reversions back-to-back edits that only count as one. At this point, if you had merely looked again, seen your error, and said, "Oh, you're right. Sorry." That part of this issue would be over. I've made similar mistakes, so I would be inclined to shrug it off. But you didn't do that. Instead, you wrongly conflate the words "edit" and "reversion" I said four edits (I have also referred to them as reverts). There are four edits... Well, first off "revert" and "edit" are not interchangeable terms, as we see here. I made four edits, not four reversions, that difference is key when it comes to 3rr violations, as you well know. Any reasonable person could see that you were accusing me of violating 3rr. Whether you did this knowing I hadn't, or did it by genuinely miscounting (I suspect the latter) no longer matters as you continue to assert, despite black and white evidence to the contrary, that you somehow felt the need to comment on the fact that I had made four edits in a post about 3rr, but didn't mean to imply I had violated it. You can see how thin that looks, can't you? And not helpnig matters is that you continued to erase my rebuttal to your points (but, curiously, not the rest of the post). Which, of course, is why this is now on three talk pages... a situation entirely of your own making. If you had left it on your talk page, all this would still be there. If you like, we can erase all mention of it on your talk page, and simply consolidate the whole thing on my talk page, or I'll make a user subpage for it.

I'm not eager to keep this interaction going, but it seems as though every time I make some move to get us past this, you find a new way to poke me with a stick. The latest is your opening up a BLP noticeboard discussion on Cynthia McKinney, the article that you... followed... me to. This after you specifically agreed that you wouldn't, right? To review:

• Me: "As for the BLP noticeboard, I've already had a word with you on your talk page re stalking -- I'd appreciate it if you did not force me to interact with you on yet another page. I hope you can see why.".

• You: Absolutely, not a problem.

I'd like to move on, but you're making it impossible. Can you just agree not to follow me and not to call me a troll anymore? Am I asking too much? IronDuke 00:49, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

If you're really still going on about the 3RR thing, please give it up. Believe me, I know exactly what I said, why I said it, what I meant and how it related to WP use of the word "reverts" way better than you do. I took your last post off my page because I'm bored of reading them and had decided the debate was at an end, not because I'm desperately trying to conceal from the world the evidence of how you supposedly bested me, but am too stubborn to admit it. As for McKinney, I did not follow you there. I was looking at the page of a US presidential candidate on, er, the day of the US election. I noticed the addition of the Dershowitz quote in the history, and it happened to provide me with a perfect example of something I had been looking for to use as a diff on the IPCOLL page. A day later it was bugging me enough to make a comment about it on the McKinney talk page itself. It's nothing to do with you, it's to do with what I see as particularly bad article content. This is either ego or paranoia at work, surely. And are you now seriously saying that I was somehow stalking you by going to the BLP board to raise a legitimate question about article content that was already being discussed between you, me and several other editors?! Really? When one of my comments on the McKinney talk page was "this really needs to go to the BLP noticeboard"? On a purely technical point, of course you were not at the BLP noticeboard, so I was hardly stalking you there (indeed of course, you followed me there if anything). And unless you're claiming ownership of the McKinney article, my post there was of course nothing personal aimed at you. Again, this is about a content problem. I called your behaviour trolling in one context only(your constant personal attacks on my talk page) a couple of days ago now, and haven't followed you anywhere (other than perhaps here). Yet you are demanding that I stop, while continuing to call me a stalker on someone else's talk page. Pretty rich. Nor do I see any evidence that you wish to "move on" at all. You're the one going over old arguments again and again while continually telling me and anyone who'll listen that I'm a stalker of some sort.

Elonka, apologies for clogging up your page, but I'm sure I'd only be accused of stalking yet again if I moved this to IronDuke's page. Even if the pretexts were not quite so flimsy, as I'm sure you are aware "stalking" is not a word that is to be used lightly (to the point where the name of the policy was changed recently). Indeed it is far more offensive and abusive than the word troll - which covers a wide range of sins and which I merely used in response to the (repeated) accusations being made against me on my own talk page, and not before warning the editor involved first. Since you saw fit to criticise me for that, could you also do the same in respect of the accusations made against me? That would seem only fair. Otherwise you would appear to be condoning sustained and fabricated personal attacks, and only stepping in to criticise the language of the editor responding to them. --Nickhh (talk) 09:19, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

So... you're "bored" with my argument on your talk page, yet you continue the discussion there all by your lonesome after deleting my post? It seems to hold at least some interest for you, no? I give you credit for brass, certainly, in that you continue to maintain that you didn't accuse me of violating 3rr, when I have diffs that show you did above, and denying that you promised not to file a BLP report (again, diffs right above your post). I'm not actually even asking you to admit any wrongdoing, I'm only asking that you 1) not follow me and 2) not call me a troll. That you refuse to do this is troubling. IronDuke 00:30, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Elonka, if this is irritating to you, please let me know publicly or privately. But since my last post, Nickhh has, in his edit summary referred to me as a "child." If you could make this stop. I would be much obliged. IronDuke 01:23, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh here you are again. Whatever, as they say. For the record - I have no interest in you as an individual or as a WP editor, and am unlikely to in the future. Is this enough to make you go away with your made-up stuff about me and non-existent 3RR allegations (anyone can check the record of course), and now utterly random claims that that I gave some promise not to file any BLP report? I assure you I will not call you a troll if you stop posting on my talk page, which you seem to have done so far. Which is progress at least. Now, where is Elonka to complain about you calling me a stalker in the first place? --Nickhh (talk) 01:25, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

If you stop picking on each other, I'll take you out for ice cream, how's that?  :) --Elonka 01:45, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

He hit me first! (Okay, I've stopped. Can I have a waffle cone now?) IronDuke 02:02, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah, a St. Louis specialty.  :) What flavor/toppings? --Elonka 02:03, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Reese's peanut butter cups and vanilla ice cream with 110% butter fat. IronDuke 02:08, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Elonka

I see that you saw my Article, Rj Revilla. I just wanna ask of my page is notable enough? or it is not right to put it on wikipedia. Please refer Rj Revilla it to my userpage. Thank you. Bautistar (talk) 13:22, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I took a look at what you've got at User:RJ Revilla. Unfortunately, I don't think there's enough yet. Most of the sources are about his relatives, and not about him. Except for this one.[16] Can you find any other articles about him? If not, you might want to wait until there are more articles. Or, keep working on the version of the Tagalog Wikipedia: tl:RJ Revilla --Elonka 18:45, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Deletions

If you have specific concerns then let me know what specifically concerns you - do not simply delete things you don't like. -- ChrisO (talk) 21:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I have posted at the talkpage. --Elonka 21:50, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Don't try that again, please, or I will block you. I'll reply to the issues you've raised on the talk page. -- ChrisO (talk) 21:57, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

And I note you don't seem to have any concerns about USER:Nepaheshgar's attack on ChrisO, with Nepaheshgar calling ChrisO a liar, why didn't you delete that? dougweller (talk) 22:01, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Dougweller, contrary to what you may believe, I do not follow every single thing that every editor does on Wikipedia. You haven't provided a diff, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. However, if you see any editor attacking another, I encourage you to be bold and to speak up about it on the spot. --Elonka 22:56, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Whoa. Everyone back to your corners. Elonka, bring it up at MfD or ANI if you feel that its a serious issue instead of edit warring - Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#ChrisO.27s_attack_page. Chris, consider if you could rewrite the header to remove the focus on contributors and please don't ever threaten to block editors you're in a dispute with. Shell ^babelfish 22:04, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm very concerned that with the mutual history that Elonka and I have, she seems to think that she has to police my edits. It's also concerning that she seems to be setting herself up as the go-to person for anyone who has a problem with my editing. That's grossly inappropriate and borders on stalking. -- ChrisO (talk) 22:13, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm much more concerned that you've accused another admin of vandalism (and now stalking) and threatened to block them over a dispute on a page in your userspace that pretty clearly exists in part to attack contributors that again, you're in a dispute with. This is a disturbing pattern indeed. Shell ^babelfish 22:15, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

No, the page does not exist for any such reason - it's the results of a survey of the contributions of a number of editors who have been engaged in systematic OR, one of whom was indefinitely blocked for just that reason. There's a systemic problem on a number of articles, and that page is a systemic effort to tackle it. You're entitled to your own opinion but I'd ask you not to jump to rash conclusions. -- ChrisO (talk) 22:23, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I should have been more clear, there's a great deal of the page that is legitimate tracking, my concern is the labeling of a few editors in the first section. I was a bit taken back by the block threat and probably didn't explain myself very well. Shell ^babelfish 22:58, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Understandable, and for the record I apologise to Elonka for the block threat - it was made in the heat of the moment. -- ChrisO (talk) 23:46, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

ChrisO, due respect, I think you blocking Elonka for any reason would be a serious, serious mistake on your part. I'm sure you know that, and I can't see you risking your 'bit, so best not to make that sort of threat again in the future. It won't achieve what you want to achieve. Avruch ^T 22:16, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

And likewise Elonka using her sysop bit to delete content in my userspace, given our mutual history, would be a serious, serious mistake on her part. Let's leave it at that and move on. -- ChrisO (talk) 22:23, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I have started an ANI thread, at WP:ANI#ChrisO's attack page. --Elonka 22:20, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, anyone who threatens to block someone they're in a dispute with or have had a past history with (such as this) is really not suited to be an admin. 5 cents. JBsupreme (talk) 05:43, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Template:Football

Hi, I am involved with the assessment on this template, by knocking back my proposal you have essentially given me a lot more work. The only objection was making sure that everything was ready for the assessment. Once the change to the template (which I have provided all the code for you - which is working correctly) has been made I am able to start with the Iran football assessment. Please take another look at the request. —Borgarde^talk 02:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

It's nothing personal. I've replied in more detail at Template talk:Football. --Elonka 03:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

How do you suggest I go about making this non-controversial request happen? I'm sorry I really don't know where to look. —Borgarde^talk 03:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Depends how urgent it is. If you feel that it needs immediate implementation, you could try posting at WP:AN and explain the situation. Or, just leave it for a day or so, and then if no one else says something one way or the other on the template page, check with me again and I'll go ahead and implement. --Elonka 03:28, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I guess I'll just wait, it shouldn't have been rejected in the first place as it followed all of WP:FOOTY's guidelines, so no WP:AN is necessary. Thanks. —Borgarde^talk 03:30, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, please take another look at Template talk:Football where the other editor has said there is consensus. —Borgarde^talk 14:48, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

 Done, and thanks very much for your patience.  :) --Elonka 17:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

ARCHIVING

Elonka, thanks for asking me if I want to have an archived talk page, and the answer is YES, thank you sooo much!--Ariobarza (talk) 03:42, 7 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Two things, I think it would be better to archive my talk page faster, and secondly I do not fully speak other languages, out of Farsi, Spanish, French, Chinese, but I speak full English, so the other languages thing is probably not a good idea for me now, thanks.--Ariobarza (talk) 04:01, 7 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

That's okay on the languages, we can put a number on each one. For example, on a scale of 1 to 4, where 1 means "I can understand a little" and 4 means "I am fluent", just rate each one, and I can put this on your page. It can be very helpful! Also, for your talkpage, how fast would you like me to set the archive? --Elonka 04:03, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Image:SempadLetter.JPG

Hey Elonka, do you know anything more about this Sempad letter? I don't know if it has been discussed anywhere around here; I've been avoiding all the PHG drama. Has it been edited or translated anywhere? I am attempting to transcribe it (for "fun") on my sandbox page. Adam Bishop (talk) 09:41, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I was just looking into it the other day, because I think it's an awesome image. I spent quite a bit of time looking around to see if I could find an actual image of Sempad anywhere, and came up empty. So the page graphic is probably the best we're going to get. I've seen no translation of it anywhere (aside from the public domain "all pages" translations), so I'd say go for it. You could probably start from here,[17] or use it as a double-check. --Elonka 17:43, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Third party butting in: According to this the letter was incorporated in an OFr version in William of Nangis's vie of Louis IX. This was not hard to track down online. Go here at Gallica and go to pages 361–3. This is William's redaction of the letter. I found several other references (at JSTOR and the like) to William's version and to other scholars who have helped to date the letter or place it geographically, but none to a Latin edition. Srnec (talk) 19:34, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Adam Bishop (talk) 22:06, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Srnec, you are always welcome on my talkpage, no need to apologize.  :) --Elonka 18:44, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

XavierFox42

hey Elonka...You issued a 24-hour block on this user, but from the edits it's fairly clear that this is a block-evading incarnation of User:216.165.58.103. He's made some acceptable edits in the past, but he's logging in to get around the protection of the IP's talk page. 24 hours seems a little mild for this...what do you think?? Gladys J Cortez 16:50, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

It looks like he may be using proxies to bounce around to multiple IPs, so a lengthy block on any one of them probably wouldn't do much good at this point. Instead, we play more of a game of "Whack-a-mole" and block 'em as we see 'em. There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of these blocks that go on every day, so it's no big deal. As for XavierFox42 (talk · contribs), the reason I went for a short block is because it looks like he has done some useful edits in the past. So I try to assume good faith that any disruption from the account may have just been temporary (for example, a drunken roommate on the account, or somebody left their WP account logged in on a public library computer, and some kids got to it). So a temporary block is usually all that's needed in those cases. If further problems do appear, let me know, or post at WP:AIV and we'll take care of them. If there are any frequently targeted articles or pages, we can also semi-protect them until whoever it is gets bored and goes away. --Elonka 17:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Mukuro Rokudo edit war

The only revert I remember making there today was when the anon deleted the same.Tintor2 (talk) 18:38, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

According to the edit war, shouldnt the article be reverted to an old version before the edits to decide then the changes? And then the article may required to be protected to avoid any more changes until this ends?Tintor2 (talk) 18:51, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll reply at the talkpage. --Elonka 18:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Just to inform you that Serpent132 (talk · contribs) has reverted once again with only minor changes to the article, and he has yet to discuss his actions on the talk page, though his stated in the edit summary that the article is too long compared to the articles of other characters and that the information is inaccurate. --Farix (Talk) 13:50, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Unresolved

The situation with the editor is unresolved. Why did you remove the unresolved tag when it is unresolved. Your edit summary did not give a reason for removing the tag. QuackGuru 18:40, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

We already have administrators monitoring the situation, at the article and with that editor. --Elonka 18:43, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

According to what policy regular editors can't tag a section as unresolved?

That is irrelavant we have admins monitoring the situation. What is relevant it that admins are not doing anything about the situation. If admins did something about the situation then it would of never had to be reported to ANI. Please explain why you removed the unresolved tag when the situation is unresolved. You did not put a resolved tag. The situation is still unresolved IMHO. QuackGuru 18:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Please read the documentation at {{Unresolved}}. It's a template that is only supposed to be used in certain rare situations. Also, admins are dealing with the situation at the Chiropractic article, on a daily basis. I can't speak for the others, but, as I posted at the ANI thread, I have reviewed TheDoctor's edits, and do not see a need to formally caution him about the Arb case at this time. He's just not active enough. We tend not to caution everyone that visits an article, because that would make the notification lists unwieldy. Instead, I try casual and informal cautions first, and then only proceed to a formal notification if other measures have not been successful. --Elonka 21:45, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Subpages

No thanks. Just the ones I've tagged. Frickeg (talk) 22:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

No worries. Frickeg (talk) 22:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

speedydeletion

Firstly, I already asked him when I speedy delete, second, did ChrisO politely ask me if he could delete the articles I created? The User:ChrisO/Battle of Opis is no longer needed, why not speedydelete? It is not complete, and is no longer needed, look at , something does not look right. Thanks.--Ariobarza (talk) 00:26, 9 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

I am not seeing where you asked him, could you please show me? --Elonka 00:27, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

dated sigs?

Hi. I did a general cleanup at the talk page of Kabbalah Centre (which I wont to do when I way too much time on my hands), which included added sigs to unsigned comments. I noticed that you added some yourself, like this, but you are able to add a time to the sig. How do you that? Is there a easy way of doing it, and not have to copy and paste using the pages history? --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 03:24, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I either type it in manually, or use the {{unsigned}} or {{unsigned2}} templates. --Elonka 03:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Shucks, I was hoping for an easy magic button :-) Thanks, --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 03:54, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, there are bots now that routinely scan for new unsigned posts, and then automagically add a signature to them. But for all the older unsigned stuff, nope, I think it still has to be done manually. --Elonka 03:59, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of User talk:Æåm Fætsøn

Elonka, if you don't mind, I'm curious why you deleted User talk:Æåm Fætsøn. Unless I'm wrong, CSD U1 doesn't cover talk pages and see WP:USER page. See WP:AN where he's asking for just a 24-hour block, which is not right to vanish. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I just want to add that there were quite a few warnings in there (minor things like improper AIV reporting), so it makes me all the more curious what's going on. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:01, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and replied at WP:AN, but I have no objection if you wish to restore the page. --Elonka 06:04, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll leave it to others. I'm probably just being a little nutty, but I've seen smart ones sometimes keep moving their talk page around so that it creates "subpages" full of warnings and ask for them to be deleted. And of course policy is inconsistent, it's a wiki! -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:18, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Your email

Re: your email, I'm honestly not sure exactly what you're asking or referring to, which makes it impossible for me to respond meaningfully. Could I ask you to clarify, either on- or off-wiki? Thanks. MastCell ^Talk 07:40, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Siege of Kapisa

I've started working with User:Ariobarza to help her understand what is required when writing an article for Wikipedia, with the caveat that I'm not sure anything we work on will actually ever make it into the encyclopedia. Anyway, she's requested that this article be undeleted and so we can work on it at User:Ariobarza/Siege of Kapisa. As I don't have the tools to do that, I thought I'd ask you since you're aware of the situation. AniMate 09:51, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I've done this. dougweller (talk) 10:38, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Doug.  :) --Elonka 17:11, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Rollback request

I recently read about Rollback. Aside from my recent stalker, on the Islam articles, from day one of my contributions with this account, I have seen tons of vandalism, both intentional and unintentional edits breaking NPOV. This is especially visible in my areas of concern in Islam, primarily where different branches and schools intersect and diverge. Within the overall Islam articles, I have to stop NPOV-breaking where the Sunni majority opinion takes over an article, and within the Shi'a Islam article stop vandalism where the Twelver majority opinion takes over the article. My improvements in these areas have been my most proud achievements, especially since I have never been involved in changes the wider community disagreed with, usually just fringe editors, most of whom are banned now.

The other issue I deal with quite often is the censorship of pictures I have introduced throughout the Shi'a articles. At least once a week I see vandalism in this area.

Aside from one very unfortunate incident on Template:Islam where I and another editor argued over jurispudence being put in the article (all my other edits I have handled wonderfully on that template), I've never done anything that would be considered abusive. What is the procedure for me to get the rollback right? --Enzuru 10:11, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. To be honest, I am not comfortable granting the request, because I have some concerns about how you would use it. Though you have done a lot of good work on Wikipedia, I am concerned with how you define vandalism, which does not appear to be in accordance with the Wikipedia definition (see WP:VANDAL#NOT). In looking through your contribs, Enzuru (talk · contribs), I see that you sometimes revert other edits as "vandalism", even when they could be construed as content disputes.[18][19][20] I also don't see that you really need rollback privileges, since you do not appear to be engaged in frequent vandal-fighting. My recommendation is to keep on with the good work that you are doing, but try harder to distinguish between what is and isn't vandalism. Also, try to be more consistent about using edit summaries. You can get a reminder for this in your preferences, by clicking on the "Editing" tab and putting a check in the box that says "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary." You might also want to look into helping out as a new pages patroller or Recent changes patroller for awhile, to get involved with project work outside of your normal topic areas. Then ping me again in a couple weeks, and I'll take another look, how's that?  :) --Elonka 17:33, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, that sounds good. Thanks! --Enzuru 22:17, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

How's your crusades?

No, not the ones against POV-pushing tendentious editors. The First Crusade. I know you were involved with PHG and the Mongols end of crusading, but would you be able to do anything for the First Crusade? It is up for a featured review and my crystal ball tells me it's pretty much certain to fail. My knowledge of the crusades begins and ends with having read Runciman's books once or twice long ago, so I amn't much use. How about you? Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Angus.  :) I'll add it to my watchlist, but to be honest, I'm still working on cleaning up the articles at: Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance#List of articles for review. You might want to contact Srnec and Adam Bishop though, if they're not already there. Aramgar and Kafka Liz might also be worth notifying. And try a note at the MilHist WikiProject. --Elonka 18:14, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'd thought of Adam, but I'll let everyone you mention know. All the best, Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I saw that it went up for FAR, and given I now have a number of Crusades books, thanks to ArbCom, I'll take a shot at it later this afternoon. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:37, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Template:Infobox

I have updated the template's sandbox as requested. --Farix (Talk) 00:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Seems we forgot a semi-colon after the border-spacing parameter. I've also found out that it doesn't work in IE except for the IE8 beta. --Farix (Talk) 03:04, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Updated. I'm still not sure if "top" or "subheader" is the best name though. --Farix (Talk) 04:15, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Goetland

It's been recreated... don't know if you want to check it out.--Techfast50 (talk) 02:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Interesting! I've never run into this kind of sneaky vandalism before, it's actually quite clever. --Elonka 02:28, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

My apologies for oversight

My apologies for missing Obamachick's racist comments when I posted a (premature) welcome on her Talk page. Good job on your response to those. Chuckiesdad (talk) 04:20, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

No worries, I guess you were just going fast with bulk welcomes, right? What do you use? --Elonka 04:24, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I've been using Twinkle for R/C watch and noticed that a good bit of vandalism is just inexperienced users, so I've added Friendly to provide more welcome options. Still requires two hands on the wheel, though. Regards, Chuckiesdad (talk) 04:43, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I tend to think of Wikipedia more as a raging river than a highway, but I understand the analogy! Sometimes it feels like kayaking in whitewater rapids that go on, and on, and on, and on.... Whee! :) --Elonka 04:46, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

That's a much better analogy, I am amazed by the speed and volume of the flow, and it never stops, just migrates around the globe. Chuckiesdad (talk) 04:53, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Upcoming ArbCom elections

Hi,

I'm rather unhappy about the sorry list of candidates at Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2008/Candidate_statements. Would you consider running? Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 22:01, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Awww, thanks.  :) But no, I'm not interested in running. For what it's worth though, don't worry too much about the list of candidates, it's just the first batch on the first day. Some of them are clearly "hoax" noms, so I understand your concern. However, the list will probably triple in size over the next couple weeks, and there are definitely some high quality candidates that are planning to step forward. When the votes start next month, I'm confident that the community will make its opinion known as to which of the candidates are clearly unacceptable. So for now, keep an eye on things, don't worry about the junk candidates, do watch for the really good ones, and if you see any that are borderline, feel free to add a query to their "questions" page, to help you make up your mind. :) --Elonka 22:28, 10 November 2008 (UTC)