User talk:Moni3

Wikipedia hosts numerous battles between ignorance and information. Who is winning today?

Nicolò Giraud

Please review the history of the Nicolò Giraud and look at the talk page. I would like someone to be neutral on the matter and also can look at the fairness in regards to the LGBT aspects. Ottava Rima (talk) 02:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Let me see if there's anything I can do. I'll reply back here or on the talk page after reading what there is. --Moni3 (talk) 12:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Pleae read. Not only does it introduce things that are blatant peacock terms into the lead and stating more than can be stated ("torrid" and making it seem like there is consensus, when only a minority of scholars think that there was a love affair or proof of such), it removes important information about Giraud. Sigh. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:33, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Also, he moved statements from the biography section (fact) into the relationship section (speculation). Ottava Rima (talk) 15:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Urgh. Ok, my thoughts on this. I read the talk page yesterday. I have criticized Haiduc before for not using highest quality sourcing for very contentious topics, namely in the Historical pederastic relationships article. I have criticized you for not being able to leave well enough alone, but not related to Haiduc. So, I don't know if I'm the best person to try to mediate here. I have a sinking suspicion if I tried, no one would like what I say and it would devolve into nonsense and mediation, or ArbCom or some other tar pit. I haven't read these sources, but the only thing to do to step in between would be to get them, and read them, and offer a 3rd opinion how they are being used. I have to look at this economically, as an issue of the worth of my time. I honestly don't know if I spent all the time reading this, writing my opinion and posting on the talk page, if it would make the situation worse. I would, of course, wish all articles to be as accurate as possible, but that often means that I have to be the one expending energy on ensuring that, and I have a limited amount when other things like ego and agenda are involved. Let me think on it. --Moni3 (talk) 15:44, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

It needs an expert in MoS and the rest who also works with the LGBT project pages to look it over. You are the only one that I know of. If you think that my take is unfair, then I will listen. However, he is now rearranging stuff almost randomly. It is as if he is challenging everything in some sort of trolling campaign. I can send you quotes of any sources that you would like to see the original content of. This only started happening after I listed the page for GA. One of the GA requirements is to not have any edit warring. The damage he did makes it so that it would need to be corrected to be GA, but his persistence shows that he will edit war it. Either way, his actions would ensure the failure of the page. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that GA thing is going to suck. I had to hold off on doing anything with Harvey Milk until it was finished with mediation plus two weeks for stability. I have to go to the library this weekend for another of my articles. I will see if it has any of the sources mentioned in the article, and try to figure out some kind of medium. --Moni3 (talk) 16:21, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

The content is normally kept to less than 10 pages per source, so I can easily transcribe or submit you images for any that you need. I own most of the sources listed and have access to all. Just leave a note for which ones you would like to see. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:23, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Email

Ottava Rima (talk) 00:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Monitor! Are these technology-related nouns, or just random utterances? --Moni3 (talk) 00:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC) Yes, I replied.

I've sent another, just a little note. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

For the last time, I will not go on your Samuel Johnson-Keats-Milton fantasy cruise. Those wigs are itchy and those brochures showing Grecian urns placed all through the ship to write odes about look tacky. I cannot imagine a Paradise Lost excursion would be appealing or fun in any way. You can email me when you find something more diverting. --Moni3 (talk) 14:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm quite disappointed. : ( Ottava Rima (talk) 14:58, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Cherry Springs State Park

	<font=3> Thanks again for your peer review - Cherry Springs State Park made featured article today! Dincher (talk) and Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Rock on, dude. You're an animal. --Moni3 (talk) 02:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Eraserhead (again)

I'm going to start working on this. What was the general availability of the book sources? I have found and printed plenty of articles, but I want to look at Sheen at the very least, or any book you can tell me that has substantive content about Eraserhead. --Laser brain (talk) 16:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I have access to anything here. You can search for David Lynch. I used 4 books for Mulholland Dr., but there are more that were published before that movie was released. Let me know. --Moni3 (talk) 19:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

There is a tremendous body of work about this film. I've contacted a few film studies professors to ask their opinions on which sources to use. I'll ask DL as well. I'm not sure whether to consider the baby a character in the film... --Laser brain (talk) 19:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

White Night riots

Just wondering what is going on over at the talk page. It looks like you are already reviewing the article, but not on a subpage, and you didn't claim responsibility for it at GAN. So I went ahead and created the subpage and signed for it before I saw your section. Are you doing an official GA review, or just an unofficial peer one? It might be good to move the review to the subpage I created, and replace my sig with yours at GAN. Thanks, — Jake Wartenberg 16:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not reviewing it for GA officially. I'm making suggestions to the editors who nominated it. Your comments are welcome. I wrote the article for Harvey Milk and I may add to the White Night riots article because I have many sources leftover from the Milk article. --Moni3 (talk) 17:09, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Wonderful, thanks for clarifying. — Jake Wartenberg 17:13, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Your evidence

You noted you've not participated in RFAR before and that you're not sure what you're supposed to be doing. I've not been heavily involved in any ArbCases before, but I've made comments in a few, followed a couple others, and even been named a time or two... maybe three. >_> I forget now. Anyway, I just wanted to note that, in my opinion, you've done well to present your evidence and elaborate upon it. لennavecia 13:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Okeydoke. As posted, I'm happy to clarify. --Moni3 (talk) 13:52, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

"Keep it civil, guys" APK straight up now tell me 14:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

No no no. I will accept payment, not give it out... Dang it! --Moni3 (talk) 14:04, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid you'll have to plead your case at CfD. APK straight up now tell me 14:11, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Civility for deletion? I support that. لennavecia 14:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Jackie Robinson

If you have the time I'd like your input on the Jackie Robinson article. You'd commented during its prior FA nomination. Since then I've substatnially re-worked the article, and re-nominated it for FA status. BillTunell (talk) 16:48, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd be very pleased to review it. Give me a couple days. On cursory look, it already appears to be more substantially cited than it was in the last FAC. --Moni3 (talk) 16:59, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as you always know these things…

…and I can see you online now – do you know what (if anything) our policy is on the reliability of theses (thesises?) as sources? Amazingly, there doesn't seem to actually be anything in WP:RS about them (Vauxhall Bridge, currently ref 25, if you want the specific instance – the site itself requires registration but it's also in Google's cache here) –  iridescent  22:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Really? There's nothing on theses as reliable sources? Puzzling. I think the guideline is that unless there is just not a lot of information published, theses are to be avoided because they are generally considered not to be fact checked consistently from one professor to the next, or from one university to the next. I will defer to Ealdgyth and Awadewit on this, however.--Moni3 (talk) 22:30, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Butting in. There have been many conversations about this at the Reliable sources noticeboard (the most recent here with links to past discussions) and (surprise) there is no solid answer. If it's a doctoral dissertation from Harvard and the claim it's supporting is non-contentious.. sure. If it's a Master's thesis from an accredited but obscure institution and the claim is incredible... well, better to find a better source. One good suggestion is to look at the sources used in the thesis. More often than not, they will also help support the claims being made in the paper. --Laser brain (talk) 22:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

It's (I think) a doctoral thesis (architectural qualifications confuse me; Chinese architectural qualifications certainly confuse me), but from the University of Hong Kong which is certainly a respectable institution. I'm only using it to add additional background such as exact dimensions to a section that's already mostly sourceable to unquestionable RS's, so shouldn't hopefully be an issue. Anyway, the most important line in that article ("A large crowd assembled on the bridge in September 1844 to watch Mister Barry, a clown from Astley's Amphitheatre, sail from Vauxhall Bridge to Westminster Bridge in a washtub towed by geese") is impeccably sourced. For that one, I've temporarily suspended my longstanding aversion to DYK; that deserves a moment on the main page. – iridescent 22:53, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Risker wonders if that amphitheatre had anything to do with this. Bad Risker. 02:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

This makes sense. I checked out a University of Florida thesis once on the anthropology of Kingsley Plantation. This seems like a logical use to me since anthropology student go to Kingsley Plantation all the time, and there does not seem to be a lot of information floating around on slavery in northeast Florida. I think that would be an acceptable use. I might look askance were a UF thesis going to support general facts, information readily found in a lot of available sources, or going to support some nutjob claim that Jane Austen was channeling alien thought patterns. --Moni3 (talk) 22:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, how did you get hold of my dissertation??? --Laser brain (talk) 22:58, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

You did a dissertation on goose-propelled washtubs? – iridescent 23:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Clowns... *shudder*. Laser brain, are you going to contact DL? I am curious and full of questions. --Moni3 (talk) 23:02, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to yes. I believe he's traveling right now so I'm waiting, because he won't correspond from the road generally. Anything you want me to ask him? --Laser brain (talk) 23:10, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a list of issues to discuss about Mulholland Dr. I signed up for his website some months ago in the hope of finding some contact info for him, but I was unable to. Tell him I said hey, and I have issues. --Moni3 (talk) 23:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

(outdent and ignore the weirdnesses...) Laser's advice is good. It's also good if you can find that someone's cited the thesis in other work too. (This happens with history thesis occasionally.) If another scholar is using it as a source, it generally helps prove the reliability. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I am glad to see this discussion as I have wondered as well....re theses that is ...(goes off to find some cool theses to ref something, anything...) Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I never claimed I could SPELL! I leave that to Malleus... (runs. Very far away. Before she is killed.) Ealdgyth - Talk 02:55, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Chill, petal. Casliber is referring to the top of the thread where it was discussed the plural of thesis, which you spelled correctly. --Moni3 (talk) 02:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Malcolm X

Thank you for your note. It is my first time on the front page, and it's a bit of a rush. :-) — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] (talk · contribs) 16:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

The Giano matter

Hello, Moni3. I don't think we have interacted much, if at all, before, but from what I remember, you seem to be a fine editor and a valued administrator. That's why I am very surprised to see you write that you changed the block duration of Giano II (talk · contribs), that you knew that this was wheel warring and that you did not care.

I am not particularly interested in what eventually happens with the Giano situation (although I am surprised at the amount of drama he always seems to attract), but I have much less ambiguous views towards wheel warring. That's why I am asking you to please undo your block reduction – which is unsupported by WP:ANI consensus – or I may refer this matter to arbitration. Thanks,  Sandstein  12:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I do not believe we have interacted, no. I am not a valued administrator. I try as little as possible to administrate. I hope I am, however, a valued article writer and content editor. I'm not an active harpie either, but I had to put that cape on as well. There are times that it is obvious that admins do not prioritize content when it is astonishingly clear to me that content is the only reason this project exists, and improving it is the only reason it will attract any legitimacy. I'm sure you know I did not reduce Giano's block to have anything to do with you, and if your disappointment in my actions is the result of what I did, then it is collateral damage that I regret. I hope in the future I will be able to persuade you that I am a level-headed editor who participates in admin actions only when roused to do so. Otherwise, I add content to articles. I would venture to say that if more folks who worry themselves about Giano did so, they'd find a lot less to complain about in his actions. I'm fired up now, so I apologize for my zeal and unintended incoherence. --Moni3 (talk) 12:57, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear that. I must inform you that I have requested arbitration of the matter at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Moni3. It is my hope that, as soon as this issue is resolved, we will have the opportunity to collaborate under more auspicious circumstances.  Sandstein  14:03, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Rock on, dude. Are you working on an article right now? --Moni3 (talk) 14:04, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Meat spoilage, actually - although it is an unappetizing topic, I had hoped I could use my holiday to work on it. Somehow, though I got sidetracked into the drama du jour...  Sandstein  14:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Best of luck with that. I'm constructing two, have one at FAC, one at GAN, I'm about to nominate another for GA. Having gone through a ringer or two for a couple articles I've written, I hope one day there will be admins to back me up when I need assistance. There are times, such as this drama du jour, that I think the priorities of the project is so off base it seems it would be a monumental effort to right it. It would be. I waver between foolish enough to care and fleeing such disappointments by delving into more article work. Eventually, however, there will come a day when I need someone to stand up and speak for the material I have put together. I hope I'll be able to find just one person to do it. --Moni3 (talk) 14:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

This for me sums up very eloquently why it's so important not to turn a blind eye to situations like the one Giano finds himself in, no matter how many appear to believe that it's needless drama:

First they came for the Socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I was not a socialist.
Then they came out for the unionist,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came out for me,
and there was no one to speak for me.

--Malleus Fatuorum 14:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Well done!

Well done Moni3 for having the balls to reduce Giano's block. Whether it sticks or not what you did shows courage and integrity, something sadly lacking in many of your fellow administrators. The whole rotten mess stinks to high heaven of corruption. --Malleus Fatuorum 12:49, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Finally! I have balls. What do I do with them now? --Moni3 (talk) 12:58, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Juggle. Yomangani^talk 13:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I know you're a girl, it's just a figure of speech. It used to be said of Margaret Thatcher that she had more balls than all of the men in her cabinet. ;-) Anyway, don't all females suffer from penis envy? *runs away to hide ...* :lol: --Malleus Fatuorum 13:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I was going more for grandmotherly scolding than overcompensating by trampling on the working class and destroying the ozone layer with hair spray. --Moni3 (talk) 13:10, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure giano appreciates the help. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 13:04, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I'm sure Giano has no idea who I am and would be just as quick to tell me to piss up a rope. --Moni3 (talk) 13:10, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Either way, I appreciate the help on his behalf. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 13:12, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

• Ha! Nice! I told Bishonen the last time that Giano was blocked not to do it and, well, of course that was ignored. At least you didn't attack Jimbo afterward, so, you are doing better than everyone else that ever unblocked Giano. :) Here's to that! :) Ottava Rima (talk) 14:27, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I went to Honeymoon Island State Park recently and took some pictures of mangroves for Wikipedia. When I waded out into the mud to get some closeup shots of those weird and wacky roots, I sank past my ankles into the mud. I was barely able to pull my feet out, much less the flip flops I was wearing. I pulled those mofos out of the mud with all my might. I wouldn't care much except they're Reefs, expensive, and the best flip flops I've ever owned — a hot and necessary commodity in this area. I pulled so hard on those damn things I busted the strap on one. Of all the expenses I've incurred, late fees, library books, Amazon purchases, etc., for the article writing I do, this seemed like the most egregious expense. I considered posting an invoice on Jimbo's talk page for lulz. --Moni3 (talk) 14:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you are going to start adding things to the WMF tab, I have quite a bit that I could add (mostly all of the stuff that I purchased for myself but used for Wiki articles, so, over 200 books). Ottava Rima (talk) 14:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I've got an overdue fee outstanding for a couple of library books I borrowed on Hans Christian Andersen for The Princess and the Pea. Would you add that to your invoice please? --Malleus Fatuorum 14:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Malleus, are you trying to see if I'm still reading? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah! The princess lives! :-) --Malleus Fatuorum 14:57, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Two bonus points for saying "circle jerk" on ANI. APK straight up now tell me 15:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah? What's my score, not counting the corrupt French judge? --Moni3 (talk) 15:27, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

69 (drumroll) Thanks folks, I'll be here all week. Try the veal. APK straight up now tell me 04:32, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Moni, I greatly admired the way you stuck out your neck for Giano the last night. Its actions like that give back faith in this project. You rock, har! Ceoil (talk) 13:37, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate your comment, Ceoil, although I consider it more siding with content than with Giano. Guess I picked an auspicious day to pay attention to ANI. --Moni3 (talk) 14:03, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The culture wars, continued

Yo Moni, if your not thoroughly horrified by your recent venture into dramaland, I would be interested in your thoughts on rootology's WP:EQUALITY proposal and this perspective on it. Talk-page stalkers and FAC-mafia also quite welcome. Regards  Skomorokh  04:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if I have anything to say on the talk page, but I'll watch it. Thanks for letting me know. --Moni3 (talk) 13:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Candy-colored clowns

		The Music Barnstar
		For writing good stuff on good songs. Sluzzelin talk 15:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I originally wanted to thank you for offering simple facts, plain arguments, and common sense at WP:ANI. ... but good articles on songs are far more interesting to read and also much rarer than dramatic material at that board. Thank you for improving song articles. I've always enjoyed listening to "What'd I Say" and "In Dreams", and now I enjoyed reading them too. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

YAY! Thanks. If you're interested, here's what I'm pecking away at right now. Shh. Don't tell anyone. --Moni3 (talk) 15:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Plot summaries

Hi Moni3, I'm hoping I can provide another distraction from the wikipolitical arena by asking your advice. It concerns Ali's Smile: Naked Scientology. The reassessment has matured from the initial drama and is now a productive discussion on how to improve the article to meet the good article criteria. Part of the book is a short story (Ali's Smile) with a very disjointed plot. The book is available online (probably in violation of copyright, but I have linked it in case you can't find it).

The issue is how detailed a plot summary should Wikipedia provide. The current plot summary does not go beyond the very limited information available in secondary sources. Since I know you have experience in providing NPOV plot summaries for very disjointed stories :-), I'm hoping you can contribute your expertise and advice. Many thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Geometry guy 21:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Moni3, if you do have time, please note that draft proposals for summaries, including the summary of that short story, are being discussed on the GAR talk page. Your input would be most welcome there. JN466 23:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that GAR turned into a muddle when I didn't keep up with it, though I can see someone has worked diligently to keep it on track. I read the talk page plot summaries. I would prefer the in-depth versions on the talk page. Is my opinion being solicited on the issue of its quality in relation to the GA criteria? Has the issue regarding a criticism section been resolved? --Moni3 (talk) 01:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The criticism section issue has been discussed extensively, so further input is not needed (though you are welcome to add comment). The issue is whether it would be possible to expand substantially the plot summary of the short story to avoid original research by selection without engaging in original research by synthesis. This may inform whether the article meets the GA criteria, but it is also possible to discuss this without engaging directly in the GA question. Please respond in whatever way you find appropriate. Geometry guy 06:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

As I'm presently working (desultorily) on The Green Child I'm intrigued by your distinction between "original research by selection" and "original research by synthesis". I may just have to take a look myself. --Malleus Fatuorum 06:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Your comments on the article would be welcome too, Malleus. Geometry guy 06:45, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Kitty!

The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) has given you a kitten! Kittens promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Kittens must be fed three times a day and will be your faithful companion forever! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a kitten, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

Spread the goodness of kittens by adding {{subst:Kitten}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

You don't have to be a lesbian to love pussy...it just makes it comical. hehe. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 02:20, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

2 things

Hi Moni3, there has been another drive-by tagging at Scientology in Germany: [1] No rationale has appeared on the talk page. Geometry guy advised me some time back that the article was now doing a reasonable job at staying neutral. What would you advise? I don't just want to revert the tag.

No. 2, I find your proposal on the Workshop talk page potentially promising. I would like to encourage you to post it on the Workshop page proper, where it may get a bit more visibility. Thanks, JN466 17:30, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

For the drive-by tagging, wait for 24 hours. If no other edits or comments are made, remove the tag and contact the editor who placed it, inviting him to share concerns on the talk page and encouraging him to communicate with you and others involved in the article instead of drive-by tagging. If he continues, I'm still watching the article and I'll back you up.

For the proposal, this is the first ArbCom I've been involved in, so I placed it where I did and don't know how it should be formed or where it should go and whatnot. Any tips you can give me there would be welcome. --Moni3 (talk) 00:35, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, that sounds good. As for the workshop proposal, all the templates on the Workshop page were used up, so I've added some blank ones again: [2]. To add your proposal, scroll down to "Proposals by User:X" and replace "User:X" with your user name. Then add any proposed findings of fact, remedies and enforcement in the appropriate subsections. This is your section then; while other people can comment and discuss your proposals in your section, they cannot suggest findings of facts or remedies in your section. Hope this makes sense, if not, give us a shout. Best, JN466 11:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

You've been quoted

[3] :P Phoenix of9 (talk) 20:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

That statement keeps coming back to me like a bad penny. I hope of all the comments I've ever made on Wikipedia that you find warmth and wisdom in my analogy of working on tendentious articles and suicide. I feel like my work here is almost done now. --Moni3 (talk) 00:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

The only comment of mine anyone ever quotes is "without content, Wikipedia is just Facebook for ugly people". And they usually take that out of context. At least you've Influenced The Lives Of A Generation Of Editors. – iridescent 00:48, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I've always found your comments well said and wise, Moni. And I certainly hope your work is not done as there is soooooo much yet to do. — Becksguy (talk) 07:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Lesbian

I promised long ago to look at lesbian, but somehow it just didn't happen. Are you still looking for a review? Awadewit (talk) 02:03, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course. A few editors have suggested that it should be taken to FAC, but since I overhauled it I haven't received a lot of scrutiny about it. I thought you might be interested in the Literature and European history sections, but if you're willing to give an overall review, I'd be glad to get it. --Moni3 (talk) 02:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll do it in pieces over the next few days. How about that? Awadewit (talk) 02:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

That's good. This was one I wrote in a compact amount of time, taking about a month. I'm trying to get some space from it to be able to assess it myself. I may place it at PR again; it had 1 after I rewrote it. I recognize there are areas that should be adjusted, but I'm interested to know how much of that is shared by readers. --Moni3 (talk) 03:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

(Butting in) Wow, an article so... very... broad, with controversial aspects. You may end up getting the same treatment as Roman Catholic Church. Be warned. Ling.Nut (talk) 04:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't be so sure actually, in some ways I think the RCC was/is/would be a much harder call. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

"I mean I've never known any personally, but isn't Danny Thomas one?" APK straight up now tell me 05:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

"Not Lebanese Blanche...Lesbian!" The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 06:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

"But you are Blanche, you are in that chair!" (Bette Davis). — Becks ROFLMAO 07:07, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

^ ^ ^ Proof that if you mention The Golden Girls, the gheys will come. Like moths to a flamer. APK lives in a very, very Mad World 07:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

"uuuuUUUUHHHHuuuUUHHH!" (That sound Tim Allen used to make in Home Improvement). — Becks Still ROFLMAO 08:07, 26 May 2009 (UTC)