User talk:NULL

Nice work on Fukuoka, Thank you.

No reply necessary. I like red links, at least on my own pages! --Iyo-farm (talk) 04:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

No problem, Iyo-farm. The article is starting to look a lot better, I think. Keep up the good work. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 05:17, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Thanks for giving your input. There is a follow-up question which you may wish to address. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:51, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Good Ol'factory. I've replied to the followup questions as best I can. I can't help establish notability for the site owner though, that's something you might need to help the other editor with. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 05:40, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Input on Commodore 128

Thanks for your input, TechnoSymbiosis - highly appreciated! -- Zac67 (talk) 18:40, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

No problem Zac. I hope it was of some help to you guys. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 05:41, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

RFC/U on Paralympiakos‎

As an editor who has interacted with Paralympiakos‎ at the WikiProject Mixed martial arts, I would like to inform you that I have filled a request for comment on user conduct of Paralympiakos. You may read that RFC/U at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Paralympiakos and are welcome to comment on it as explained at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct/Guidance2 once it has been certified. Jfgslo (talk) 19:40, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Questions about Roland Doe

What I want to know is why, though, when citing this, Roland Doe works but The Exorcism of Roland Doe obviously does not!76.195.85.160 (talk) 03:46, 17 March 2011 (UTC) - a quote from Roland Doe discussion page, can you come over and answer that? It will help dummies like me, I tried citing it on Wikipedia one time under its new title, but only Roland Doe works. You'll see this under the newest discussion heading. THANKS!76.195.85.160 (talk) 03:48, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry! - could you also explain how I can nominate this article? Or would you be willing to nominate it after a review? It requires cleaning up for appearance, clearly, but the content is splendid. Vespine deserves a great deal of credit for the advances in this article and its content.76.195.85.160 (talk) 03:51, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry! Stupid me ... I see Exorcism of Roland Doe is the answer. Feel foolish, very. Apologies. I'd still like a set of eyes on this for nomination, like the one that was awarded to Anna Anderson.76.195.85.160 (talk) 03:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Anna Anderson is a featured article, which has a very rigorous set of criteria to satisfy. If you're interested in climbing the ladder with Exorcism of Roland Doe, you'll want to start by looking at the Good Article criteria and working from there, then submitting it for assessment. I'll post this on the article talk as well since I don't know if you'll check here. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 04:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

TechSym, I dropped in because I can be an oaf - I just wanted to ask whether you protected The Exorcism of Roland Doe. I ask this not knowing, but it angers me that these things are done and no one posts on the talk page. There's work yet to be done on that article, as you pointed out to me! By the way, before an admin hogged the credit for Anna Anderson, I am the one who wrote about 88% of that article as it stands!76.195.81.212 (talk) 21:56, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I haven't protected the page, and it doesn't seem to be protected. Are you sure you can't edit it? TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 01:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Bob Ross a question

Hi TechSym, I see you are at the Bob Ross page. Can you explain why the William "Bill" Alexander page would be deleted without further ado?

Ross basically stole Alexander's methods and even the equipment. Couldn't there be an Alexander page of some sort? I may have sufficient sources to do a skeletal outline of an article which would be better than nothing.

Not being a big-time editor, I do not know how we get photos or that type of thing ... but I think I can get Alexander's business to allow me to compose his bio and add info about his TV shows.

Will you reply at the talk page, Bob Ross discussion page?76.195.85.160 (talk) 18:20, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Fukuoka

Hi,

sorry, I have been consumed by other issues over the last few weeks and the whole quake/tsunami/nuke business has really shaken folk up, even though it did not directly effect us in Ehime.

I see the problem.

The only way forward I can suggest is choosing to take it all to the right place to put in a complaint. I remember when I looked last, it said we needed two people, well I am your number two.

From my point of view, this guy is an obsessive crank who is infatuated with Fukuoka and wants to turn the page back into his own personal website about the man. Great, he knows his details but he lack a simple, clear, perspective required to write a sufficiently good topic. There is no beating about the bush. I do not see why anyone needs to have to deal with that in a voluntary project. I am pretty sure that any sober individuals taking a look at his contributions on the talk page is going to see it straight away, and if they don't - and people like this are allowed to run amok - then the Wikipedia is doomed.

From my own point of view, I posted those photographs to prove what I said was true. My home is nearby, I have met the family, I am friends of friends, I have worked on the farm and if you want phone numbers to confirm it, I can give them. Of course, none of that is a "reliable source" but it does give a good foundation to keep matters grounded in reality. Take, for example, his re-write on the hill and pagoda. It is crap. The land is roped off and neglected. The buildings are falling down and composting. The family is sort of embarrassed by it and does not show it to strangers. The family don't follow his method any more.

Macropneuma is basically filling it full of the same unnecessary cruft, like multiple repetitions of Japanese alternatives "(shizen nōhō)" etc as it was before.

Where do we go and who do we have to speak to? He needs to be kept away from it.

I am in. Iyo-farm (talk) 18:53, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Which date/time is the best version in your opinion? Iyo-farm (talk) 19:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi Iyo-farm. The article is in an interesting state at the moment, in my opinion. I think I've been able to ward against some of the more drastic edits that Macropneuma has been making, though the debates on the talk page have felt quite futile at times. I think the article at the moment is most definitely in the best basis state to improve from. I think the Chronology section should still be reworked into the main biography portion. The number of people listed as 'influenced' by Fukuoka should be cut down, which Macropneuma seems to agree with in edit summaries (but has not yet discussed on the talk page). I still dislike the way he's done side-by-side English and Japanese in the videos section as it isn't consistent with any other bio I've seen but I don't know enough about the material to make any meaningful changes to it.

I'm cautiously optimistic that Macropneuma might have toned down his aggressive editing over time in the face of persistent reasonable objection. I'd certainly advocate a diplomatic approach as much as possible, but it's important to also maintain the standards of the encyclopaedia. Both claims - yours and his - need sources to be included in the article, otherwise we have to resort to fairly bland obvious descriptions for things like the photos. I'm certainly curious to see where this article will go and I do think it needs more eyes on it. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 01:19, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

RfC

Hi, Could you please comment on the following:

RfC: Is Polukhov's statement worth being kept in the article?

Thanks in advance. -- Ashot  ^(talk) 09:51, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

"Luther" redirect move discussion re-opened at new page

I'm inviting everyone who contributed to the previous discussion to weigh in (again) at Talk:Luther (disambiguation). Thanks, Aristophanes68 (talk) 20:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, NULL. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/La goutte de pluie.
Message added 05:35, 20 August 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

OpenInfoForAll (talk) 05:35, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Arbitration

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#User:La goutte de pluie and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Wikipedia:Arbitration guide.

Thanks,OpenInfoForAll (talk) 22:46, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Persian dialects

Sorry, but see the article of Persian language, especially the section about the Persian dialects and varieties. The Tajik and Dari language also the (separate) dialects of the Persian. The facts are similar in the Slovene dialects: two dialects in the peripherial regions is territorial languages, Slovene sources from Prekmurje confirm this statement and also my studys from the University. Doncsecz^talk 06:10, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, NULL. You have new messages at The ed17's talk page.
Message added 19:29, 7 October 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 19:29, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

cous

He reverts it back to his previous version with the excessive "may" usage here, and ignores the three man consensus for Eomund's version. Pass a Method talk 22:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, NULL. You have new messages at Worm That Turned's talk page.
Message added 13:15, 19 October 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Worm^TT · (talk) 13:15, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit war

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Please see my comments here for further information. Thanks, Swarm ^X 01:40, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Swarm. I've made one single revert to that page, per WP:BRD. How other people are treating the page is not my concern, and certainly not my responsibility. Thanks for looking into the matter though, I do think it could use some attention. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 01:43, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I completely understand if you didn't notice it, but the last sentence of the above warning directs you to an expanded explanation which should clarify things. Bottom line: the problem is a long-term edit war that I would advise you to stop taking part in (I assume it was completely unintentional). Swarm ^X 02:02, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I certainly appreciate you bringing the edit war to my attention before I participate in it, I just think it's jumping the gun a little to give me a warning that I have already participated in it. It's just not my understanding of WP:EW that a single revert by a previously uninvolved editor could be construed as participating in edit warring. In any case, as you see I left a message on the talk page after my revert, and I'm more than happy to discuss the matter to come to a consensus. Congratulations on your new mop, by the way :) TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 02:17, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Okay, the template message was probably not necessary, and due to the unique circumstances a hand-written notification would probably have been best, and it obviously created a misperception of my intentions, so I apologize for that. But seriously, don't take it as a hostile gesture, block threat, accusation of bad faith or anything like that; just take it as a friendly notification that you're inadvertently getting involved in something you may not be aware of (which, again, would have been better conveyed with a non-templated message). Thanks, Techno. Regards, Swarm ^X 03:42, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't think you have to apologise, you just took me a little by surprise. It's not a big deal, and your intention was well received. Good luck, Swarm. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 03:46, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For saying what had to be said very well.. Crossmr (talk) 12:54, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Category talk:Anti-abortion violence#RFC on supercategory

Category talk:Anti-abortion violence#RFC on supercategory was reopened after a review at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive228#RFC close review: Category:Anti-abortion violence.

I am notifying all editors who participated in these two discussions or Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard/Archive 26#"Christian terrorism" supercategory at Cat:Anti-abortion violence. to ensure all editors are aware of the reopened discussion. Cunard (talk) 04:01, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

DJ OZMA

A new move request has been started suggesting that it be moved to "DJ Ozma". You are welcome to contribute, once more.—Ryulong (竜龙) 00:06, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Taiwan

At Talk:Taiwan_(disambiguation)#Move_request could you at least agree to get the island article out of the way? So in a first step the opinion that the island is the primary topic is downgraded. If you don't want to move the dab page, you could say so. Then Taiwan could become a redirect. And if at any point in the future a majority votes for ROC as primary it can be done very easily. Huayu-Huayu (talk) 13:51, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

WP:AN mention

You were mentioned in a discussion at WP:AN; Wikipedia:AN#Should_editors_be_discouraged_from_asking_admins_to_justify_their_actions.3F --Born2cycle (talk) 17:39, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to everyone who - whatever their opinion - contributed to the discussion about Wikipedia and SOPA. Thank you for being a part of the discussion. Presented by the Wikimedia Foundation.

Blackout

I was asked to delete some redirects related to {{Rescue}}, so I just spent some time looking through its deletion debate, in which you commented about the blackout. Thank you for your words — they're exactly what I felt. I was gone for a few days at a place without Internet access and got back only to find that the encyclopedia was about to go down after a discussion that hadn't even really started when I left. Perhaps more than anything else, I'm bothered by the speed with which this was rammed through — the bigtime WP:POINT and WP:NPOV violations are huge, but those already happen systematically with some topics and I've learned to live with them; I've never seen anything happen like this, especially since we were so careful to add multiple days to the prescribed five-day PROD and AFD process for the sake of editors who can only edit on the weekends. Nyttend (talk) 21:25, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Nyttend, I appreciate you saying such. I really do have deep concerns about the precedent that this protest has set, and the message that it has sent to every activist group out there who wouldn't have any qualms with manipulating the appearance of widespread support. If it only takes 1200 odd people to drastically impact Wikipedia like this, it really wouldn't be difficult for a group to set up a few hundred accounts, run them in a normalish fashion for a few months to give the illusion of legitimacy, then start a vote on whatever they felt like protesting.

But aside from that, what I really find unfortunate is the effect that Wikipedia's blackout has had on our reputation for neutrality. There have already been articles criticising Wikipedia for taking a side, questioning our ability to write neutrally about topics on the opposite side of the one we've taken. It took us years to build a reputation for usability amongst academics, and already I've heard professors saying that the protest is another nail in the coffin of Wikipedia's efforts to be regarded as a respectable publication.

And for what? To protest a bill that other high profile sites without such reputation concerns were protesting anyway? There was enough grass-roots opposition to the bills to cause them to fail without Wikipedia's participation anyway. We've sacrificed more than the people who wanted this blackout realise, and the real gain we achieved is hazy and questionable. Very sad. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 20:23, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

DRV

A notification that the Templates for Discussion discussion (oy, repetition) has been taken to a deletion review discussion. The Article Rescue Squadron was notified, and as notifications to previous involved parties isn't normal practise, I and a few ARS members agreed that, in the interests of transparency and fairness, we should let everyone know...hence this talkpage message ;).

If anyone has an issue with me sending these out, do drop me a note on my talkpage. Regards, Ironholds (talk) 10:23, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Editing patterns

At a recent AN/I you commented "I think more than 35% odd combined article and article talk contributions would be less worrisome. " What is the nature of the "worry?" Is there an assumption that most "Wikipedia" edits are just participation in AN/I or some such site of bickering? Are we to avoid WP:AFD and Wikipedia:Reference desk? I wonder if there has been any broad discussion of what the pie chart should look like? My own pie chart at X!'s edit counter also shows a large percentage of edits outside articles and their talk pages, with about 29% at articles and talk pages and 52% at "Wikipedia." I note that if I am going along patrolling articles, and I find one which looks like it needs an AFD, nominating it for AFD adds one to the "Articles" total, one to user talk(to notify the article creator), and two to "Wikipedia" (The actual AFD and the AFD log.) If one participates in AFDs, the comments, "keeps" (often including the posting at AFD of references which can improve an article) or "deletes" only add to the "Wikipedia" total (thus "worrisome"). Ditto for answering questions at the Reference Desk. If an editor reverts vandalism and warns the vandal, there is one "User talk" edit along with the one "article" edit. Trying to achieve that goal of "lots of article and article talk" edits could mean avoiding AFD and Ref Desk, and avoiding warning vandals or PRODing and AFDing articles, while adding lots of comments on article talk pages. I'm not sure that really makes for a better Wikipedia. What do you think? Regards. Edison (talk) 20:40, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Edison! I'm in a hurry to get out the door but here's an initial reply. I think the bureaucratic pages of Wikipedia (yes, including the reference desk) have their uses and provide valuable services that are necessary for the smooth running of the encyclopedia, but as with any bureaucracy there's a real risk of that bureaucracy beginning to serve itself rather than the project. I think it was Oscar Wilde that said famously, "the bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy". I wouldn't say that there's anything in particular the pie chart should look like - we are a volunteer project after all - but I think it's also important that we need to remember what the purpose of the project actually is. XFD, AN/*, etc. are all utilities to deal with the procedural underlay of what we're trying to accomplish. They exist to cater for the fact that the system is flawed. The risk comes in dedication to those areas for a few reasons. Firstly, spending too much time in the WP namespace means that one's breadth of experience is more limited - diversity comes from participating in everything, across the board, and diversity makes for a better contributor. Secondly, long-term consistent use of a system (like AN in particular) starts to make use of that system the purpose for some contributors being here. Continuing this when I get to work. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 21:28, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

So the noticeboards are basically a tool used to solve a problem (rather than to perform a task), with the problem being the flaws of the Wikipedia system. The correct way to use a problem-solving tool is 'when you need it'. You use a nail remover on a worksite when the problem of a misplaced or damaged nail arises, you don't use it all the time. If you make a problem-solving tool a person's raison d'être, you create a situation in which that person's objective is no longer the same as it was - in the worksite example, your worker's goal is no longer 'to build a house' but 'to remove nails'.

Those goals may align sometimes, but not always. Inevitably the real differences in those two goals become apparent. Your 'nail remover' worker might start removing nails that shouldn't really be removed because they're not completely perfect, and he thinks he's doing the right thing because he's lost sight of the bigger picture (to build a house) and has focused too intensely on the minutiae (to remove nails).

The noticeboards and the general bureaucratic elements of Wikipedia are the same. When people take on specialised tasks, they risk losing sight of the bigger picture in a well-intentioned, benevolent but nonetheless damaging way. You get people thinking they're helping when they're not, you get people trying to solve problems that aren't actually problems. The guy who focuses on wikilinking and goes around putting excessive links in articles or lawyering about the linking rules on particular words without taking the time to step back and ask why, or if it might really benefit the article even though it's 'technically wrong'. The guy who knows gardening inside out and writes really great gardening articles, but obsesses over little mistakes that don't matter in the grand scheme of things, and starts scaring people away from editing in that area because he comes across as elitist, possessive and aggressive. The guy who likes tagging articles with improvement templates, but ends up in edit wars with other editors who think he's being too liberal with their use. Bugs is one of these people. I'm sure he's well-intentioned but his nose has been against the canvas for so long he doesn't realise that he has lost sight of the painting as a whole. In fact, he seems to genuinely believe that what he's doing is for the greater good, just like the wikilinker thinks, just like the gardening expert thinks, just like the templater thinks. None of them can see that what they're doing is causing as many problems than it's solving.

The system underpinning the noticeboards, the way they're intended to work, doesn't really support the notion of a dedicated regular. The boards are at their best when they get a diversity of input from people who normally spend their time doing other things. They're at their worst when it's always the same people contributing, giving the same ingrained opinions all the time, with the same narrow-mindedness that comes from a lack of variety. It's really hard to encourage a consistently random flow of people through the noticeboards to achieve that sort of result, but at least you can get the input of people whose focus is on achieving things outside of the noticeboards, who spend their time gaining experience elsewhere so that they can share their insight when it's needed. You don't gain useful insight to share on the AN noticeboard from the AN noticeboard; when you try to do that, you end up recycling the same stuff over and over, and its quality degrades every time (like every time you photocopy a photocopy).

And that is where the toxic environment of AN/* is coming from at the moment, in my view. You've got 'photocopies of photocopies of photocopies' so much because certain regulars there don't have the diversity of experience to bring anything new to the boards, and the result is terrible quality, barely recognisable from the original and no longer in-line with the project's goals. The first step in actually fixing the noticeboards, in my opinion, is to kick out all of the regulars, get rid of all the 'bad photocopies' and bring in new views and opinions from people who don't (and won't) make the noticeboards their main purpose. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 23:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

What I'm hearing is an assumption that "Wikipedia" edits are probably at noticeboards where people complain about other editors, like AN or AN/I. I have many times more edits at Ref Desk than at the AN/I and similar dramah boards. I do not see that Ref Desk is bureaucratic in the same way at all; it is simply the online version of a real life library reference desk, where people ask questions and (ideally) get referenced answers, with the offshoot of article improvement and article creation. You might find it worthwhile to look over some of the various ref desk topics that fall within your areas of interest. The mop and bucket work expected of admins, such as removing vandalism, also loads up the edit count with userpage and Wikipedia edits. Without AFD and other deletion processes, the quality of the encyclopedia would rapidly diminish, and it would be undistinguishable from Uncyclopedia, a mass of vandalized articles and vanispamcruftisements. If an editor has a few hundred edits, and wants to be selected as an admin or some such job, there might be more concern about whether they have breadth of experience than if they have many thousands of edits to articles, with references added where needed, and articles created when notable subject are found. When my RFA to become an admin took place, (approved 60 to 0) out of 12000 edits, only 31.8% were to articles and their talk pages, yet the support voters typically cited "strong project space edits" and also expressed approval of the AFD and Ref Desk contributions. Your comment at AN/I was the second such comment I have seen in recent weeks expressing disapproval of someone's pie chart. Has the philosophy shifted since 2007? Edison (talk) 00:02, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

As I said, some of Wikipedia's bureaucracy is good/necessary/etc. (vandalism fighting, the XFD boards to an extent, etc.) and if there was a way to break down WP:useful-pages from WP:dramaboards in the soxred chart I'd be happy to make use of it. I'll point out that I'm not citing the chart and saying 'this is unacceptable', I'm citing it and saying 'this doesn't seem like the right distribution for someone doing what Bugs does'. My view was formed in combination of that chart, plus the 9500 odd ANI edits (triple that of the next highest non-bot contributor) and the general tone of Bugs' commentary that I've observed on ANI over the last few years of watching that board.

You mentioned the refereeing parent thing above (since refactored out), and if you'll allow me to reuse the pretty bad worksite analogy again, this could be likened to maintenance of the tools. Some maintenance is always required, but if you're finding yourself spending more time maintaining your tools than you are actually using them, it's probably time to look at getting better tools. The ANI side of the analogy would be to do a full revamp of the system.

One can have a good filter and never post things, or (almost as good) have a good redactor and remove thing better not said. Edison (talk) 05:42, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

The refdesk is indeed a pretty benevolent WP:namespace board, I agree. But in a broader context, I'm not sure that people who dedicate themselves to that board to the detriment of the actual 'building' part of our project objective are the right people to be giving advice on the Wikipedia project as a whole. I'm sure that's going to sound insulting to someone that spends a lot of time at the refdesk and I want to assure you that it's not intended that way. I just think that the people best qualified to give advice, whether it be at the refdesk or at the admin noticeboards or anywhere else, are going to be the people with the broadest range of experience. You can't really get a feel for how the community works or what's acceptable and what's not from an article-building perspective, for instance, unless you're actually out there doing article-building.

The mop does encourage more WP:namespace edits, absolutely, and that's part of the job for admins. I am, however, a strong proponent that admins should be out there doing the same things they used to do before they got the bit: creating, editing and improving articles. Admins run the risk of falling into the same trap Bugs did if they focus too closely on the bureaucracy and the mechanics behind Wikipedia, and not enough on actually existing, living and breathing within the ecosystem itself.

I don't know if my comments reflect any particular shift or not, I can only speak for myself. I have some experience with the design and implementation of community governance systems at the small and medium levels (certainly nothing the size and unwieldiness of Wikipedia) so my views here come mostly from my (moderately useful) sense of what's likely to work and what isn't in trying to solve problems of this nature. Charts like Bugs' one kinda make me go 'ehhh...I'm not sure this is really a good thing' in part because the shift from productiveness to bureaucracy is something I've watched in-depth before and that chart registers in my mind as the top of the slippery slope. I don't know if I can explain it much better than that, but it does give me a bit of pause. I certainly don't suggest I know everything or that I'm even necessarily right, it's just the gut reaction that I have. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 00:30, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

And I'll just add a short addendum here, I'm actually not happy about my own edit distribution on that chart either. I've allowed myself to get distracted by mechanics-based discussions which, while useful, should not be the main focus of my attention like they have been over the past few months. I need to get back to actually doing article-space edits. It's not that one can't do both, I just think one shouldn't focus for too long on any one thing. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 00:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

If I can remember high school algebra, there was a "mixture problem" trick whereby one could determine how many main space Article edits (refraining from answering questions at Ref Desk, ignoring !=voting at AFD, ignoring dramah boards such as AN and AN/I, refraining from Speedy Deletes, from Prods, and creating from XFDs) I would have to do to raise the Article space component over 35% so as to be a worthy editor in the eyes of some. Edison (talk) 05:42, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

It's not about worthiness and I don't think you should take the matter personally. In situations where an editor's conduct is called into question, it's not unreasonable to examine the broader context of their contributions to the project as a whole. In this case, an editor has a problem with excessive and often controversial contributions to ANI, and the surrounding context (triple the contributions of the next highest non-bot, 35% WP:namespace vs 35% article+articletalk, etc.) suggests to me, based on my own personal experience in other projects, that this is the beginning of a problem that will get much worse if it's not addressed now before it gains more momentum. Bugs' 'fingerprint' here is different from yours in a lot of ways (admin flag, ANI dominance, etc.); that you might have a common element in chart breakdown doesn't make any criticism of Bugs apply to you in the same way. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 05:51, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the thought-provoking discussion. Edison (talk) 01:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

none taken

I don't have a problem with getting heated when it's just about me. I do get riled up when it's someone else that's getting bullied. Thanks though.VolunteerMarek 01:26, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Heh. Well the comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, just trying to lighten the mood a bit. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 01:57, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

"Clear divide"

I think the official source cited [1] actually points us in the other direction: the use of "Taiwan" in the first line to refer to the scope of the elections (the island and its people) is opposed to "ROC Central Election Commission", the official political entity overseeing the election, which uses ROC in its name. Deryck C. 19:51, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Notice that "Taiwan is a respectful country in the world" and "North Korea and Taiwan are the only nations that have not participated" both allude to a divorce of the country / nation from the political entity that represents it. In fact, the example "as the elected president of the Republic of China, I will continue to strive toward forging Taiwan into an exemplary democracy" makes it very clear that in official usage, "Taiwan" is used when only the territories and people are concerned, and ROC is used to refer to any official title, especially ones pertaining to the fact that ROC claims to be more than Taiwan. One must read such quotations with the historical context of the words in mind, rather than making sweeping generalisations based on WP:Recentism. Deryck C. 22:21, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I caused confusion - no, it's not a divorce of the political country Taiwan from ROC. It is a divorce of the country / nation (with geographical and population, rather than political, boundaries) from the political state that currently represents it. The separation between the country and the political entity is what the current state of the articles represent, and the move proposal isn't what you're describing. The proposed move chain is Taiwan -> Taiwan (island), ROC -> Taiwan, which is a marrying of the country with its political entity, and a subsequent divorce of the physical island from the people living on it. Deryck C. 22:53, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Usurpation certification

I'm completely muddled by this process but hopefully I'm doing it right. This is a certification that I'm requesting WP:USURP on the SUL account 'NULL' with the intent to rename my current account to that name. Each account with the same name has been notified of the request. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 00:15, 28 February 2012 (UTC)