Talk:Case Closed

can't we please stop

can't we please stop with the changing of the article's name it's been going back and forth for too long... Pyromania153 (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

It is what vandalism is. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 00:15, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Title Change

Can we change the title of the page to Meitantei Conan. As it is the original title of the Japanese anime and it is the source. It was named Case Closed by Funimation after acquiring the dubbing rights for the anime and for marketing in the United States. The original anime series is continuing and the Case Closed series stopped production. Hence I believe the title Meitantei Conan is more relatable. ViSh 21:25, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

This has been discussed so often a header at the top was supposed to prevent more of these discussions from coming up. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 23:30, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

The idea behind giving a topic a title is most usually an original context rather than a derived context. In my opinion, something that has been discussed a lot doesn't mean the discussion shouldn't happen again. ViSh 00:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

But Wikipedia's stance is still based on the MoS which states official English titles must be used. The series is still licensed under Case Closed by Viz and Funimation. No argument has defeated that cause yet. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 01:16, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

This issue is secondary to WP:TIES. The official Japanese-English title is Detective Conan, and since this topic is clearly Japan centric that should be used. The Japanese article even mentions this: "漫画・アニメともに、世界各国で翻訳・刊行・放映されている。タイトルの英語表記は『Detective Conan』で他の言語もそれに従うものだが、北米のみ『Case Closed』というタイトルになっている。" Unless it can be shown that this is not a Japan centric article the title must be changed to Detective Conan. Mojo-chan (talk) 19:23, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

No. Ties says use the right native English to that native article, Canadian articles would use Canadian English. It does not enforce foreign titles. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 03:35, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Ties states that "An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation." The official Japanese English title is Detective Conan. It's not a translation (which would be something like "Great Detective Conan"), it is the official Japanese English language title. It is used on official works such as the manga and in the TV series. A couple of the movies have had releases with English subtitles and they say "Detective Conan".

Furthermore Ties goes on to state that "For articles about modern writers or their works, it is sometimes decided to use the variety of English in which the subject wrote". In this case the original author wrote "Detective Conan".

Detective Conan is not an American or British subject. It should use the native English title, as Ties states, rather than the foreign title it uses now. You seem to be a bit confused on that point - Case Closed is the foreign title.

Do you have any objections? This is going to be a lot of work to fix. Mojo-chan (talk) 21:37, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Ties doesn't apply in this situation. I'm tired of this, send a Request Move and let the more experienced editors discuss this. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 21:51, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

No-one is compelling you to debate this. If you have nothing more to add there is no reason to respond. We have dealt with your argument and you offer none of your own ("does not apply" is not an argument). Mojo-chan (talk) 22:24, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Is there a link to that policy of wikipedia? ViSh 01:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

On the header DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 01:46, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Did not notice that Thanks ViSh 01:53, 9 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vish4urwish (talk • contribs)

Helpful source

This guy posted an interview he had with Aoyama via email. [1] I figured it would be helpful to add a Production section to this article. The guy seems reliable once you read his page describing himself and all the other interviews he has done. Xfansd (talk) 02:03, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. TIES really doesn't come into play here, but there's still reasonable disagreement over the subject's common name. --BDD (talk) 19:54, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Case Closed → Detective Conan – The Japanese English name is Detective Conan. That is the official name, given by the author. The article is about a Japanese subject, and as per WP:TIES when an English language title is given in the culture of origin and by the author it should be used. Mojo-chan (talk) 22:29, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose WP:Ties says writing style, date, and number must match their national ties, not how a title is named. This has been discussed many times, such as My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU as series always use their licensed names. WP:COMMONNAME, use the name most prevalent in reliable English sources. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 23:10, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
• Comment WP:TIES only deals with English-speaking nations, so it's doesn't apply in this instance.--十八 04:31, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support The policy on anime/manga naming says to use the official English titles, and Detective Conan is the official English title. The licensed version came later and is more of a derivative work, since many aspects are changed and it only contains a small subset of the original number of stories. As for Ties only dealing with English speaking nations, English is used extensively in Japan and many Japanese authors/companies do give their works official English titles. 91.84.21.205 (talk) 07:42, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose I am unsure where the idea that Detective Conan is the official English title has come from. The book on my bookshelf right now has Case Closed on its cover, so that's the title as far as I can see. Justin.Parallax (talk) 10:28, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

If you look on the coverbox image which uses the Japanese cover, you'll see the Detective Conan in the red circle which is used by the author to show how he wanted the series to title to translate into English; its direct translation would be Great Detective Conan AFAIK. This is starting to get silly now. If Detective Conan is somehow chosen over the licensed title Case Closed, The World Ends with You needs to be moved to It's a Wonderful World and Kuroko's Basketball to The Basketball which Kuroko Plays, the author's attempt in translating the title. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 11:24, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support As DragonZero points out, it is the official English title given by the author. In other cases where the author has given an English title it should also be used. I really don't see the official title being a bit awkward as an issue, and it has no relevance here at all. Mojo-chan (talk) 17:56, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

DragonZero did not say that, and only stated that it was the way that the author wanted it to be translated. Also, considering the fact the DragonZero opposed the moves clearly shows that they did not believe it to be the official name.--174.93.170.47 (talk) 02:09, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not saying he doesn't oppose, merely that his arguments actually support the case for changing the title.Mojo-chan (talk) 09:36, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose:If this went through, it might open up a lot of avenues for changing the names of Japan-based films, TV series and games from their short, snappy localized titles into names that sound fine in their native language, but are rather a mouthful when translated into English. I think we should keep the president of English title first, Japanese second, unless it has no official English title. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:31, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose the official English name part has always in practice been applied to commercial releases. I'm sure if it that type of determination was meant to be up to the author it would have been specified somewhere. I would not consider Detective Conan as the official English title since it has not been marketed as that in any English speaking country. Also as mentioned WP:TIES does not apply since that section states An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation, so that would not apply to Japan. To demonstrate the commercial release case it should be noted that we use Nintendo Entertainment System over Family Computer, Super Nintendo Entertainment System over Super Famicom Resident Evil over Biohazard etc, and the most relevant example O-Parts Hunter which was moved by consensus over the original Japanese title 666 Satan. I don't see anything different here.--174.93.170.47 (talk) 00:29, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

It depends on your definition of "English speaking". English is used extensively in Japan and most people know the meanings of many loan words, e.g. "début" and "water". The examples you give (NES/SNES and RE) don't really fit because they were given official releases in the west, so those are the official English titles. Case Closed is not even the same work, it is a derivative with many extensive changes made and covering only a tiny subset of the original material. Case Closed should at most be a section in the main Detective Conan article, detailing the differences.Mojo-chan (talk) 09:36, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

"Case Closed is not even the same work". Yes... it is... (Poor example but With a Bang (Case Closed)). DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 09:48, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

The not same work argument does not work since there are far worse dubs that the official English name was not rejected due to dub quality. We did not move Zatch Bell to Gash Bell when people tried to make dub quality an argument for moving. Also just in case someone tries to bring up Cardcaptor Sakura, it was not moved from the dub name due to quality of the dub but due to the fact that the original manga was released under that name as well as uncut releases of the anime. This is also nowhere near as alter as that was either.--174.93.170.47 (talk) 00:52, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose - This sort of interpretation would go against WP:COMMONNAME. Sergecross73 msg me 01:39, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

"Detective Conan" gets about 11.9 million hits on Google. "Case Closed" only gets 4.7 million, but a significant number are unrelated. The most common name by which western, English speaking fans know the series is "Detective Conan". Mojo-chan (talk) 09:36, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support Detective Conan is the most common name among English speakers. I think too much emphasis is being placed on the commercial adaptation, when there are more fansub episodes and a huge community built around them. The commetcial dub website doesn't even seem to be up any more, the citations go to archive.org. Wikipedia isn't here to support commercial interests. I can understand why some people are absinthe some strange sounding English titles but Detective Conan is fine.212.183.128.204 (talk) 14:02, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Case Closed is the name by which the manga most commonly known by in English as that is the title under which the manga is released under in English. Reliable English-language sources will most frequently refer to the series based on its official name in the English language market, which is the standard under which the most common name is determined. WP:TIES does not apply here as that is specifically limited to topics "that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation", and Japan is not an English-speaking nation. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 14:56, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Pardon me but it is actually the other way round, Detective Conan is more commonly known around the world, including the English Languge market, so WP:COMMONNAME does not support Case Closed in this case. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 08:41, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, Detective Conan is the most common English language title. Wikipedia is not here to make a judgement regarding fan/licensed use of the name, merely to reflect reality. Mojo-chan (talk) 09:33, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

• Strong Support per WP:TIES and WP:CRITERIA. WP:TIES absolutely apply to this Article since the manga and anime are also distributed to many other countries aside from First World countries, especially the developing European and Asian countries that Do speak English frequently like Singapore and France. Furthermore, the term Detective Conan surpassed the term Case Closed in terms of number of edits. Coincidence? --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 20:53, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

I doubt that WP:TIES was meant to apply to nations than have a different official language (like France) since that almost certainly would have been specified due to obvious confusion.--174.93.170.47 (talk) 00:52, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually WP:TIES apply to any Article with strong ties to a language of a nation, not just official language (English Language in this case). To say, there are many polyglots around the world, particularly the English Language and the Chinese Language. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 08:42, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I can see how it might be a little bit of a stretch for articles about Japanese works, but Japanese culture does make use of English in an official capacity and IMHO it is a very important part of that culture. Without going in to too much depth English is seen as kind of cool and a bit exotic, which is likely why Detective Conan was given as the official English title and is printed on books that are otherwise almost entirely in Japanese. The central character is even named after Sir Arthur Conan Doyle as a tribute to his Sherlock Holmes character, and other characters are given English names. Clearly English is used by the author and thus the English title has authority.Mojo-chan (talk) 09:39, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose Come on people. English titles please. If we go by the rationale that Japanese articles should use English names as set by their Japanese roots, then this entire WikiProject needs a dire rewrite. I don't see how throwing WP:TIES into the mix applies here, due to its definition. —KirtZ^Message 22:55, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

The fact that this and other articles would need work is not a reason to ignore the rules or consensus. A mistake was made, it needs correcting. Also, how is "Detective Conan" not an English title? No-one is arguing for Japanese titles, merely the official English title as given by the author/author's publisher when available and when commonly used. I have demonstrated both these conditions apply here. Mojo-chan (talk) 09:33, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

WP:TIES apply in this case because the series is also licensed as Detective Conan in other English-Speaking Countries. The name Case Closed only apply to the United States which is against WP:NPV. Regardless, if we choose to keep the name as Case Closed with a single-sided reasoning, then this is not fair for the rest of the other readers who speaks English around the world. I did some research on the series distribution between countries. In the article, I found the statement "Due to legal considerations with the name Detective Conan, the English language release was renamed Case Closed." to be very unclear. What are the legal considerations that forced the licencor to change the name and why is the name Detective Conan being used in the United States around the 2010s as compared to then. Furthermore, I have to point out once again that the name Case Closed is only used in America, not in the United Kingdom, Australia or any other country that I know of.

This is not the American Wikipedia remember, it is the English Wikipedia; So we shouldn't use the American name Case Closed, but rather the name Detective Conan from now onwards. I'm looking for a fair method to settle this so that they won't be a future confrontation regarding this article's title again so please understand the readers. Thank you. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 08:26, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

First, I want to state that almost everything in this article was done by me. The wording "Due to legal considerations with the name Detective Conan, the English language release was renamed Case Closed." part is exactly what the source says. You can blame Funimation for being hush hush about that. Secondly, while its been over two years since I done any research for this article, United Kingdom and Canada do use Case Closed and there are no other English localizations, aside from Animax's unknown dub, of it in existence. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 22:13, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I know that we cannot accept original research, but as a Brit I can attest to what DragonZero says as being correct in this regard. The results wielded via amazon.co.uk seem to support this as being accurate as well. Justin.Parallax (talk) 09:50, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

eBay says the opposite.Mojo-chan (talk) 23:41, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

You are ignoring the fan translated material, which is greater in volume than the licensed material. I'm in the UK and was not even aware of the Case Closed name until I read about it on Wikipedia. Everything I own says "Detective Conan" on it, and much of it was bought from sources like Ebay or Play Asia. My local Chinese goods shop has a Detective Conan t-shirt as well, so that name definitely is used commercially here. Ultimately I don't think we can make a determination either way on this point, which is why I suggest we go with the official title given by the author and his publisher. Mojo-chan (talk) 18:33, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Fan translations are irrelevant. WP:COMMONNAME is based on what the preponderance of reliable English-language sources used. Since you have not demonstrated that the preponderance of reliable English-language sources use a title other than the official English-language title, this RM isn't going to go anywhere. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 21:13, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. Particularly for Japanese titles fans are very important.Mojo-chan (talk) 23:41, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

• WP:TIES was written to deal specifically with WP:ENGVAR, and when it is appropriate to adhere to certain spelling conventions in Wikipedia articles. This matter relates to that policy in no way. Article titles should all meet COMMONNAME. Redirects should be used for all other aliases, and any official alternate names, including alternate titles in different markets, should be present, in bold, in the lede. VanIsaac_{WS Vex}^contribs 11:31, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support. This is an unusual situation, but we should still apply WP:TIES. When something's released under an English title in a major country that (1) doesn't primarily speak English, but (2) has a substantial degree of use of the language, our article about that topic has strong national ties to that country's usage. Japan is significant enough on the world stage and its use of English is significant enough that we should apply TIES here. This is very different from what would happen if a Sammarinese or Burkinabe author released something under an English title, only to see it get a different title in the USA, Canada, the UK, etc. — those countries aren't highly influential in the world, and they don't have a substantial rate of English usage, but both are true of Japan. Nyttend (talk) 03:22, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

It's only referred as Detective Conan in the logos and is always referred as Meitantei Conan everywhere else, primary or third party. Meitantei Conan translates to Great Detective Conan. English isn't a strong presence in the series. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 03:29, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

In conclusion, all I can say now is that if this article remains as Case Closed, it will most likely be challenged again by another user or reader because Detective Conan does surpass Case Closed from a world perspective per WP:NPV. Then again I still do not know if I should agree with Case Closed just yet because I cannot comfirm if the name is related to WP:CV in any way. I found info that the Copyright Violation had something to do with the name Conan, but I cannot verify it at all since Future Boy Conan also uses that name (except in Arab) and per WP:V it needs to be verified, otherwise the name change wouldn't make much sense to the many readers that already recognized the series as Detective Conan. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 12:23, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

It isn't just logos, Detective Conan is the official English title. All the evidence presented so far demonstrates that it is also the common name, except for the amount of material available on Amazon UK under the Case Closed name. Amazon is purely commercial though, where as a more general search on any major search engine will return considerably more results (multiple times as many) for Detective Conan. That is including all the unrelated pages that contain the rather common phrase "case closed". I don't think anyone has presented a credible argument that Case Closed is the more commonly known name. In fact I suspect it was changed to try and divert buyers from all the free DC material and fan websites already available and towards the licensee's site, and to avoid conflicts with other official English language sites using Detective Conan. Mojo-chan (talk) 23:41, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Once again, if you completely disregard licensed name usage at MoS Ani/manga, Common Name still stands. "use the name most prevalent in reliable English sources." There is a reason Kuroko's Basketball is used over Kuroko no Basket or throwing Ties outside the scope of MOS:ENGVAR and turning the article into The Basketball which Kuroko plays. Provide some reliable English sources. English reviewers use Case Closed. The English sources in the article use Case Closed. Fan translations are not credible sources by Wikipedia standards. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 05:33, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support - Despite officiality of both titles, Detective Conan is more accurate and consistent with the premise of the show than the current one. Also, many sources use the proposed name. "Case Closed" is ambiguous, even when there aren't existing articles of same name. George Ho (talk) 07:16, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support - Detective Conan was called Case Closed in USA but it was called Détective Conan in french and Mesterdetektiven Conan in Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Meitantei Konan is the name used to Japan. Therefore, the name Detective Conan makes more sense.--Gratus (talk) 13:19, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Non-English titles used in other languages is irrelevant. What is relevant is the title used by reliable English-language sources that covers the topic per WP:COMMONNAME. Also, Case Closed isn't a US-only title. It is also used in Canada, UK, and Australia, which are the other three predominant English-speaking nations. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 22:59, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Non-English titles are irrelevent but indirectly supportive. We are going by WP:COMMONNAME but we also must maintain WP:NPV. Case Closed has a lot of reliable English sources but I'm not saying that Detective Conan doesn't have any either. The point about choosing Case Closed is that it may violate WP:NPV and it is the media that determine a series notability. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 09:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Non-English sources has no baring on the article names in English. And I don't see how naming the article Case Closed would be a violation of WP:NPV. Both titles are given in the article, and this discussion is about which title is most commonly used by reliable English-language sources per WP:COMMONNAME. So far, the arguments supporting Detective Conan have been based on either personal preference or on the belief that Japanese takes supremacy regardless of which title is used by the preponderance of reliable English-language sources. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 11:41, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

So is there any suggestion on how we should go about this without causing another fuss over it? WP:COMMONNAME is not the only policy that applies here, it also applies WP:NPV, WP:TIES, WP:CRITERIA and more importantly, WP:TITLECHANGES. International media recognize the title as Detective Conan but if it is based on localized media then it is Case Closed. Case Closed may violate "WP:NPV" as mentioned above, but in another way it may not violate it, depending on the scope of views. I have already mentioned that there are many polyglots around the world, so why are we basing this article, and more generally Wikipedia on the English countries; and not including certain influential countries? --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 10:47, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

OPPOSE. I would like to regurgitate what I said in 2007, but since the OP cited WP:TIES as the main main reason, I'd like to quote the text there:

An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation. (Emphasis added)

By citing WP:TIES, the OP also implies Japan is an English-speaking nation, which is plainly ludicrous.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 16:12, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

According to what that has already been mentioned above, there are many polyglots around the world, and that includes Japan, and English is also a language taught at every elementary school in Japan, which is not ludicrous and fairly reasonable to apply WP:TIES due to their vast usage of English in the media, especially anime and manga. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 19:00, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

The wordings of guidelines should be interpreted by the plain meaning of the word. I dare you pick 100 Wikipedians by random and ask them: "Is Japan an English-speaking country?" and more than half will get you a negative reply. Whether the language is taught as a second language is not important. The important thing is their English skills related to native speakers, and how much they use English in daily life. Based on these two factors I cannot believe, by the plain meaning of the word, Japan is an "English-speaking country."--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 19:19, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

I have found a discussion about what is an "English-speaking country" which worths reading.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 19:25, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

One more discussion.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 19:30, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: I'm not an anime/manga fan, but would like to make one comment as an outsider. As Vanisaac mentioned above, WP:TIES relates to WP:ENGVAR to resolve disputes over which version of English to use in particular articles. If WP:TIES applies to the use of English in countries that do not have their own recognised variety of English (e.g., Japanese English), this then raises the question: which variety of English should be followed. —sroc 💬 22:59, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the outside view. The article is written in American English as it follows Viz Media and Funimation. There are no other English adaptions out there. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 23:16, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

I can understand the predicament regarding the use of English in non-English countries. It is true that WP:TIES only applies to English-speaking countries and I'm convinced by User:Samuel Curtis's links to discussion regarding the use of WP:TIES. I do retract my statement on pointing out WP:TIES to this article and I apologize for it.

However, that doesn't explain why Case Closed is preferred over Detective Conan just yet. I respect that there are more experienced editors than many of us here and I just can't understand why we're basing discussions with emphasis on a single policy. If you can explain how Case Closed will make the article more stable, more recognizable, and more believable than Detective Conan without violating the currently applied policies, some editors and I may reconsider our views about this. If not, best I can assume is that a big discussion like this can happen a 3rd time.

This is probably my last reply on this subject for a while since I'm feeling unwell now and I need a break. Thank you for the discussion we had together. --(,･∀･)ノシ(BZ) (talk) 09:03, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Long term name consensus

I have to create a sub-section here to ask some readers and editors alike to share their opinion on the series and come up with a Semi-Permament solution to the long debate about the series. It is not a poll but rather to document opinions on how to determine the scope of our discussion so that the new editors and readers can understand our consensus.

Now regarding the discussion, we can choose between Detective Conan, the title that is internationally recognized worldwide, and Case Closed the title that is licensed and used by English countries. The talk page of this article has a long history of debates on the title and I want this to be the last if possible. Please share your solution below. Thank you. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 11:14, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Case Closed/Archive 2#Requested move should have been the big discussion. Summed up: the Anglosaxon countries will know the series as Case Closed because the series is still being published as such; added to the fact, this caters towards the general audience who don't know about fansubs; the writing flow would become stupid, English character names and episode names put aside for its unofficial Japanese translated names, reception would be mostly Case Closed, etc. Every single argument has been brought back full circle, further discussion would be a repeat so just let an admin come to a final decision. Here is the quote from the past closing admin. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 22:28, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I have left it a long time before coming to a decision, and I have repeatedly studied the arguments given for and against a move. In the end, I couldn't find enough justification for a move to Detective Conan. It is not used in most English-speaking countries, for instance. The most compelling reason would be one of accuracy, since most of the episodes have not ben released under the name Case Closed, but it is clear that if official translated versions were released, they too would bear the official name Case Closed. Move requests are not votes, and much of the argumentation for the move was based on invalid arguments. This in no way entails that all the related articles must be at titles based on "Case Closed"; an article about a film which has not been released under a "Case Closed" title should remain at a "Detective Conan" title. They must be decided on a case-by-case basis. It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 10:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The statement just reminded me about the films, but I'll get to that later. More importantly, the series was originally released as Case Closed in 2003 under Funimation. Since then, releases in English by other sources are very controversial, weather as Detective Conan or Case Closed, as I don't find enough sources to prove that Funimation censored Case Closed since the DVD boxes released under Funimation bearing the name Case Closed also bears the name of Detective Conan under closer inspection. Though Funimation has rejected Detective Conan previously, the name appearing on its boxes doesn't really add-up to the censorship. I know what I did was violating WP:OR so I apologize for that but the focus now is the Title.

If the past statement by former admin Stemonitis was unable to convince many readers and editors, then reasoning can be incomprehensible in cases like this. I could just say that by WP:TITLECHANGES default it to Detective Conan due to the many conflicts regarding the title but some of the consensus still insist on Case Closed as it is an English official title per WP:COMMONNAME under the scope of the English countries. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 07:25, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

I was a party of the 2007 conflict and based on current policies, I don't prefer changing as of today. As for Bumblezellio's point about Movies post-6, I would also quote WP:TITLECHANGES:

[...] Nor does the use of a name in the title of one article require that all related articles use the same name in their titles; there is often some reason for inconsistencies in common usage. For example, Wikipedia has articles on both the Battle of Stalingrad and Volgograd (which is the current name of Stalingrad). (Emphasis added)

Naturally, for any movie post-6, the Detective Conan title is the Common name and putting "Case Closed" on them is artificial. But that does not by itself justify changing the entire title.

--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 16:01, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

The available evidence suggests that Detective Conan is the most common name. Multiple search engines show that there is vastly more English language material using that name. As Stemonitis pointed out many of the episodes and books have not been released under Case Closed at all, and in fact the amount is a small fraction.

This is clearly a contentious issue that comes up every few years, and doubtless will again. I suggest splitting the article into separate Detective Conan and Case Closed parts. These could be separate articles or just a major section on Case Closed in the main Detective Conan article. It would make the text less awkward because it wouldn't have to try and mix original/Funmation names and changes, and the limited subset of Case Closed episodes and the differing seasons could be documented separately. That would, I think, satisfy both camps.Mojo-chan (talk) 17:54, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry, I did not intend to change the title of the first 6 movies, just those after and this Article itself. --(B)～（ー．ー）～(Z) (talk) 18:37, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Splitting an article to circumvent WP:NC is not allowed, either.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 19:20, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

On what grounds?Mojo-chan (talk) 22:00, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

That would be Wikipedia:Content forking. The English version of this work is simply not anywhere near different from the original version to be considered a different work. The only real exception I can think of regarding a split for anime is Robotech (TV series) which was a combination of 3 separate anime series (all of which have separate articles and significant plot differences). We don't have separate articles regarding shows like Zatch Bell or anything 4 Kids ever dubbed despite the fact their English adaptions have been altered to a far greater extent than Case Closed ever was. To put it another way any split would likely be reverted very quickly.--70.49.81.26 (talk) 01:00, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Okay, but having it as a separate section outlining the differences would be allowed. I'm just trying to find a solution that will appease both camps, because otherwise DC is doing to be the centre of an endless struggle. Clearly the current state is unsatisfactory, so the question becomes is there a more satisfactory option? Mojo-chan (talk) 17:45, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Without reliable sources, outlining differences would be a violation of the [[WP:NOR|no original research] policies. But regardless of what you do, there will always be a perinatal debate about the article's name. You will always have a fanatical core that believe the article should be named "Detective Conan" regardless on what Wikipedia's policies and guidelines state. 24.149.119.20 (talk) 21:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

That's not a very nice thing to say. The people wanting to keep the CAse Closed name are just as fanatical :-)

The discussion has already been archived before it could be completed, so I'm going to have to do a new move request to get it moving again. I'm going to take some time to do more research and build a few more arguments. Or is there some way to undo the archival? Who decides on archival and why wasn't there any debate over it? I'm not a full time editor and for various reasons can't edit as fast as some other people, so archiving it after no-one posted for a few days doesn't give me time to interact. Mojo-chan (talk) 22:09, 5 November 2013 (UTC)