Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 April 5: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 17:25, 8 April 2014

< April 4	April 6 >

April 5

Template:HanSurname

Template:HanSurname (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

We already have Template:Infobox surname. eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:54, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Aside from the duplication, the template has an unnecessary cross-wiki link to Chinese Wikipedia that is potentially confusing. ► Philg88 ◄ ^♦talk 05:38, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment it looks like it's a supplemental box to infobox surname, not a replacement of it. -- 70.24.250.235 (talk) 07:34, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@70.24.250.235: Which doesn't alter the fact that it's surplus to requirements. ► Philg88 ◄ ^♦talk 07:47, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, this is being used as a replacement, see Liang (surname).--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:34, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox European football

Template:Infobox European football (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template:Infobox African football (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Propose merging Template:Infobox European football with Template:Infobox African football.
Rather than creating a new infobox for each continent, it would be better to add the extra fields to the existing template, and rename it Template:Infobox international football awards or something like that. eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:51, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support merging to target Template:Infobox continental football. Both templates fulfil a similar use. C 679 07:04, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Con Safos Jalapeño

Template:Con Safos Jalapeño (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

the image is used a bit, but this template seems to be unused. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 23:15, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Memphis Redbirds roster navbox

Template:Memphis Redbirds roster navbox (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Minor league rosters change too often for this to be of any use and it has not been updated with anything close to regularity so the information is often out of date or inaccurate. Spanneraol (talk) 22:36, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:El Paso Chihuahuas roster navbox

Template:El Paso Chihuahuas roster navbox (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Minor league rosters change way too often for this to be of any real use and it does not seem to be updated regularly so the information is not accurate or useful in any way. Spanneraol (talk) 22:31, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox valley

Template:Infobox valley (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages) (142 transclusions)

Template:Infobox landform (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages) (47 transclusions)

Propose merging Template:Infobox valley with Template:Infobox landform.
A valley is a type of landform. {{Infobox landform}} already looks like a subset of the valley template; merge at the former name but keep 'valley as a redirect. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:44, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: oppose either merging or deleting. I think merging these infoboxes would cause the same problems that Geobox causes. Specialized infoboxes force editors to use only those parameters that are sensible. Merging to make a more general infobox will allow inexperienced editors to make a mess (similar to Geobox). As long as all of the infobox varieties call {{infobox}}, then stylistic consistency is maintained. —hike395 (talk) 05:04, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I do not think geobox is a good analogy, since one type of geobox is generally not a subset of another. Which parameters in the current 'valley' infobox are not applicable to at least one other kind of landform? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:10, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's the other way around: {{Infobox landform}} has parameters that are inappropriate for valleys (e.g., |water=, |operator=, |designation=). This is just asking for misuse through unfamiliarity. To me, the whole purpose of specialized infoboxes is that they only allow sensible parameters for the type of entity. This lack of error checking is precisely why I think Geobox is a terrible idea. If anything, we should go through the transclusions of {{Infobox landform}} and see if it is truly required! —hike395 (talk) 04:37, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, provide the right kind of guidance and the newbies won't cause any disasters; to that end having a well-written documentation and multiple usage examples (as in Template:Infobox officeholder) is essential, having two different templates is not.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:39, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox forest

Template:Infobox forest (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only 79 transclusions. Redundant to {{Infobox park}} (2320 transclusions; already used for nature reserves and similar), to which any necessary parameters should be added. This name should then be kept as a redirect. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:31, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Not all uses of {{Infobox forest}} correspond to human-created forests. For example, Cauca Valley dry forests uses the infobox and is a natural ecoregion. It doesn't fit naturally into {{Infobox park}}. Now, perhaps it should use {{Infobox ecoregion}}, but I think my reason for "Keep" holds for several other articles, such as Forest of Chaux and Forêt de Bouconne. —hike395 (talk) 06:17, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- The issue is not the similarity of forests (whether created or naturally occurring) and parks; but the similarity of the two templates. Every parameter in the infobox in the Cauca Valley article is catered for by the park template, except for |disturbance=. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:40, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How silly. Since when do we get rid of, say, images because they are similar? or policies because they are similar? or get rid of ideas because they are similar? perhaps we could also get rid of some editors because they similar... How trilling to waste sound editing time dealing with over-obsessed distractions like this one. How silly. Mercy11 (talk) 13:33, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See my argument above: it's not that {{Infobox park}} cannot represent Cauca Valley dry forests, it's that there are parameters that are junk for natural forests, such as |operator=, |founder=, or |budget=. —hike395 (talk) 04:42, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

- ...and I've now added |disturbance= to {{Infobox park}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:47, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as proposed if these are merged, then they should not use the name "park", since forests are not parks, per Hike. If they are merged then there needs to be a different name. {{Infobox amusement park}} is separate from "park" -- 70.24.250.235 (talk) 07:49, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- As noted above, "this name should then be kept as a redirect". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:40, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On that basis, you might as well suggest placing all the parameters from templates such as singer, writer, politician, architect, scientist, baseball player, etc etc etc in {{Infobox person}} and have all of those other templates redirect to Person. How silly. Mercy11 (talk) 13:33, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Many potential uses; better to deploy rather than merge/ delete. Not equivalent to {{Infobox park}}. Regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 14:07, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm inclined to believe that we'd be better off taking instance of "geobox|forest" and converting them to use this instead, given geobox's well-known scope problems. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:19, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- That is indeed an issue, but the conversion could just as well be made to an expanded {{Infobox park}} template. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:40, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- On checking, I can't find "geobox|forest"; do you perhaps mean "Geobox|Protected area"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:06, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Huh. Truth be told, I've no idea how Geobox sub-templates work: however, Amazon rainforest clearly thinks that "Forest" is a subtype, for example. If that does nothing, it's another reason to consider Geobox too complicated to continue using. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 15:21, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: {{Infobox park}} is already used on, for example Epping Forest, Jenny Jump State Forest, Thetford Forest, Savernake Forest, Delamere Forest, Tillamook State Forest, Okaloacoochee Slough State Forest, Bedgebury Forest. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:59, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- There's clearly a lot of overlap between the sort of managed / cultivated forests in your examples and the things that {{infobox park}} covers. I'm not sure, however, that this extends to larger and less managed areas of woodland, particularly outwith the West. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 15:21, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think this means we should convert to unmanaged forests to {{Infobox forest}}, if appropriate —hike395 (talk) 04:45, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Since when are 79 transclusions too few? What policy supports this imaginary number mongering? Of course there are going to be more uses of Parks than Forests, just like there are more uses of Artist than People - but we don't get rid of the Artist template on such fallacious basis, nor do we merge all the Artist fields into the Person template. A ratio of 79:2320 (~1:30) is about right: in real life we probably have 1:30 forest:park ratio. A forest and a park are different things. If there is overlap, that's the case with just about every infobox template in existence. How silly. Mercy11 (talk) 13:33, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox rockclimbing crag

Template:Infobox rockclimbing crag (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages) (Three transclusions)

Template:Infobox climbing area (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages) (Thirteen transclusions)

Propose merging Template:Infobox rockclimbing crag with Template:Infobox climbing area.
Similar subjects. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:27, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I just converted the last transclusion of {{Infobox rockclimbing crag}} to {{Infobox climbing area}}. Thus, {{Infobox rockclimbing crag}} is now unused and redundant —hike395 (talk) 06:07, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, speaking as nom, Delete. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:32, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Hike395.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:41, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox French canal

Template:Infobox French canal (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Redundant to {{Infobox canal}}, into which any required parameters should be merged. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:15, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per nom.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:23, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Largest cities of Norway

Template:Largest cities of Norway (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template:Most populous urban areas of Norway (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Propose merging Template:Largest cities of Norway with Template:Most populous urban areas of Norway.
These templates seem to be mostly redundant. Also, the statistics don't seem to match up but I believe editors more familiar with them can help clarify this issue. Waldir ^talk 19:14, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The two templates claim to measure two separate things: urban areas (tettsted) and metropolitan areas (storbyområde). This explains the difference in populations. {{Largest cities of Norway}} is not a navbox, but is intended to be content in the article Norway. {{Most populous urban areas of Norway}} is a navbox, so a merger should be out of the question. On the other hand, the way the navbox is structured is highly problematic. Although it uses figures for metropolitan areas, all the links are to cities proper/municipality articles. This is misleading. I notice that is also a new (per January 2014) navbox. What has traditionally been used is {{42 most populous cities of Norway}}, which sticks to urban areas. I propose keeping {{Largest cities of Norway}} and deleting {{Most populous urban areas of Norway}}. Arsenikk ^(talk) 07:19, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Taking another look at this template, it seems to be all false information. For instance, if Oslo's metropolitan population is set to 1.5 million (which it can according to certain definitions), that would include areas such as Drammen, Sandvika and Ski (which have their own entry). Similarly, if Bergen's metropolitan population is set for 400k, it would include Askøy. The same could be said about Stavanger and Sandnes. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:18, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Continental Baseball League

Template:Continental Baseball League (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

I just nominated the main article in the template for a prod deletion, teams aren't notable Secret ^account 19:12, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox orchestra concert

Template:Infobox orchestra concert (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template:Infobox concert (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only five transclusions. Redundant to {{Infobox concert}}, into which any required parameters should be merged. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:14, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and replace with standard.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 14:35, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Metal Gear character

Template:Infobox Metal Gear character (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only eleven transclusions. Redundant to {{Infobox character}} (Transclusion count: 4,708). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:44, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and replace with standard.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
comment since this is a module, and not a stand-alone infobox, is the proposal to delete the additional information? Frietjes (talk) 01:48, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 14:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As Frietjes says, this is a module rather than a full infobox, and is thus not redundant to its parent template. If there's an argument that none of its parameters are required, that's a different story, but that would need to be examined. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:09, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I still support deleting this, it's one thing to have parameters like the name of the character's designer and voice actor, and quite another to add in-universe trivia like nationality/affiliation/etc.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:44, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Fluss1

Template:Infobox Fluss1 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template coded in German. Redundant to {{Infobox river}}, into which any better or additional features should be merged. If kept, that should only be on the basis of it being a Shimming template, which must be "subst:" (probably by bot) whenever it is used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:26, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and subst as suggested by nom. Also recommend it is renamed "Template:Infobox Fluss". Please note this is an extremely useful, much-used template that saves considerable time when translating river articles from German Wikipedia. Normally these types of template are converted to shimming templates (as the nom suggests) and I am happy with that. --Bermicourt (talk) 15:29, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment how many more of these German-parameter templates did you create Bermicourt? This is just like infobox berg 1 -- 70.24.250.235 (talk) 07:59, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as a shimming template, to be substituted with Infobox river.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:19, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sympathetic to the need to shim data across from other WPs, but this needs to emit a valid en-WP infobox rather than an old-style wikitable. That's been done before for similar de-WP shims. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:11, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Sonic character

Template:Infobox Sonic character (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only sixteen transclusions. Redundant to {{Infobox character}} (Transclusion count: 4,708). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and replace with standard.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per preposition. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 01:41, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 03:28, 15 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
comment since this is a module, and not a stand-alone infobox, is the proposal to delete the additional information? Frietjes (talk) 01:47, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:09, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Question With four of us calling for deletion, and none opposing, why was this relisted? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:23, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not clear the majority of the editors commenting understood that this is a module, and not a stand-alone infobox. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 14:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - True, but considering that the extra fields are in-universe trivia (likes, dislikes), I still support its deletion.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:21, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - Likewise; the fact that this is a module was clear to me when I nominated it. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:13, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox pulps character

Template:Infobox pulps character (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only ten transclusions. Redundant to {{Infobox character}} (Transclusion count: 4,708). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and replace with standard.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
comment given the lack of parameters in common, it would be good to reopen this as a merger discussion, with both templates tagged. Frietjes (talk) 01:44, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Possibly closer to {{Infobox comics character}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:01, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:09, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Toho character

Template:Infobox Toho character (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only two transclusions. Redundant to {{Infobox character}} (Transclusion count: 4,708). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:48, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and replace with standard.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Undecided, in my own opinion. I'm not entirely sure if we should delete the template as a whole; it could still be useful for a number of articles, if it wasn't so specific. Maybe move it to Template:Infobox kaiju or Template:Infobox daikaiju? Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 17:06, 19 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
comment given the lack of parameters in common, it would be good to reopen this as a merger discussion, with both templates tagged, or is the proposal to simply remove almost everything in {{Infobox Toho character}}? Frietjes (talk) 01:45, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:07, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox StarCraft character

Template:Infobox StarCraft character (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only four transclusions. Redundant to {{Infobox character}} (Transclusion count: 4,708). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:47, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and replace with standard.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
comment since this is a module, and not a stand-alone infobox, is the proposal to delete the additional information? Frietjes (talk) 01:48, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:07, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Space:1999 character

Template:Infobox Space:1999 character (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only eleven transclusions. Redundant to {{Infobox character}} (Transclusion count: 4,708). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:47, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ and replace with standard.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
comment it's already a wrapper, and substituting it would add quite a few blank fields/parameters to the transcluding articles. is the proposal to remove the additional non-standard parameters? Frietjes (talk) 01:50, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:06, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Frietjes is right, this is already a wrapper of IB character.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:26, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
With only eleven transclusions, and no new programmes being made, we don't need a wrapper. They should be 'subst:', the blank fields deleted, cruft like hair colour deleted, and the wrapper deleted as proposed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:29, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox domestic cricket season

Template:Infobox domestic cricket season (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only twelve transclusions. Redundant to {{Infobox cricket season}} (Transclusion count: 31) of {{Infobox cricket club season}} (Transclusion count: 136). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with IB cricket season.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:53, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
comment given the lack of parameters in common, it would be good to reopen this as a merger discussion, with both templates tagged. Frietjes (talk) 01:43, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:01, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 -->
-==== [[Template:Infobox Indian TV actor]] ====
-:{{Tfd links|Infobox Indian TV actor}}
-Articles about Indian actors can just use [[Template:Infobox person]]. [[User:Underlying lk|eh bien mon prince]] ([[User talk:Underlying lk|talk]]) 23:55, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
-* '''Delete''' Fairly recent [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Actors_and_Filmmakers/Archive_8#Awards_in_infobox discussion on WP:ACTOR] said the keep awards out of the main infobox, listing them as a separate section. That was the only reason for this template so it should be replaced with the infobox person template. <b><font color="darkred">[[User:Ravensfire|Ravensfire]]</font></b> <font color="black">([[User talk:Ravensfire|talk]])</font> 14:55, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
 ==== [[Template:HanSurname]] ====
 :{{Tfd links|HanSurname}}