Talk:Amor Prohibido

Unforgettable instant classics

Calling certain tracks "unforgettable" and/or "instant classics" can be a bit of a stretch, depending on who the target audience is. Am I right? Musiclover 21:53, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

number one hits

wondering what the person who added that meant. it says in the u.s. and mexico--which charts are you referring to, specifically? (as i was trying to find the citations for them....) Bouncehoper 22:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Japan sales

In the Japanese version of "Amor Prohibido" page states that the album went gold there. If this is true then someone should edit this page and include it. User talk: AJona1992 —Preceding undated comment added 00:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC).

Certifications

Since the certifications states the album sold 2 million copies in the USA alone (twice) does this mean it sold 4 million copies in total figures? AJona1992 (talk) 20:08, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't think so, but I'm not sure. I think both certifications signify the same thing, shipping of 2 million copies. But since all one can do is report what the source says, that's what I reported. If you feel one is redundant you'll have the problem of deciding which one. --Muhandes (talk) 20:51, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

4 Million? No. The album has been certified 2x Platinum in 2002 for shipment/sales of 400,000 units (see previous levels here). And then, RIAA has re-certified the album 20x Platinum in 2010 for 2 million units applying the newer certification-levels (newer levels are these). After having been certified the first time in 2002, the album has kept selling between the period of 2002-2010, but RIAA has not received the required fee from the record company in order to issue further certifications for the album. This is quite normal, we see this all the time.--Harout72 (talk) 01:26, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I think so too, see my comment above. Not sure why someone tagged this dubious though, it's not dubious at all that the certifications were given, the database is reliable. --Muhandes (talk) 12:39, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Some comments

I do not feel confident enough to take this to PR as I have only done a quick skim through. However, there are some comments that I have to improve the article:

• General
  • I noticed that the album / singles are capitalized differently. Some have just the first word and others have every word. I do not know how capitalization works in the Spanish language, but the article needs to be consistent

Well I was told by Erick that the first word of a Spanish language song has to be capitalize while the rest has to be in lowercase letters. That's new to me but since the rules did change a couple of weeks ago I had to follow them.

Okay, I didn't know how capitalization worked in Spanish. Anyway, the article needs to be consistent with capitalization. Michael Jester (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

• • Producer and Progressive music are disambiguation links
  • this is a dead link
• Lead
  • I did a little copy-editing on the article. (The article is kinda of long; I may or may not copy-edit other sections.)
  • First sentence of the second paragraph says Mexican music. Can you elaborate just a little bit?

Well she had recorded songs that were more Latin dance-pop/ballads/cumbia whereas Mexican music incorporates mariachi and rancheras. Though "Cobarde" and "Tus Desprecios" were the only tracks that had Mexican music-influence.

• Song structure and lyrical content
  • What encyclopedic information do the song samples give? The captions just say something like "this song won an award". Take a look at Thriller or My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. Those two articles have great captions.

Wow! Excellent captions! Michael Jester (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

• • This section is quite large. Is there anyway you can trim it down? Take a quick peer at WP:SUMMARY STYLE. It may be best to split it into two sections: Song structure and Lyrical content.

Wouldn't it be sloppy to have two sections based only on the music?

Possibly. I was just suggesting. Michael Jester (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Well I'll remove the unnecessary information. Though since it hasn't gotten a peer review yet, I'm sure a third-eye would point them out and I'll remove them :)

• Release
  • This section seems to go a little off topic with the awards and such. I would move those to a new section
• Critical reception
  • Only one reviewer in the template? You can add the Billboard review. I would try to have at least three or four.

The others didn't give stars, I can't find any other review who gave this album a star rating.

They do not have to be a star rating. you can add "(favorable)" or "(unfavorable)" to a review box. Michael Jester (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Added them :)

• Charts and Certifications
  • Combine the two into a section called "Charts and certifications"
  • Very few albums, and not many in the higher classes, and single peaks; leave those for the respective articles.

What do you mean by this "Very few albums, and not many in the higher classes"?

I meant to say articles on albums. By higher classes I meant GA and FA articles. Michael Jester (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

• Awards and nominations
  • Remove the awards that do not pertain to the album, e.g. Female vocalist of the year. These are awards for Selena, not the album.
• References
  • Move the book to a new section (or sub-section).
  • For a general note, books normally do not need a retrieval date.

I added them because of the new "template" section that is located below the icons of "bold", "italic" when editing an article. On there, it asks for a retrieval date on every citation.

That's fine. Michael Jester (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

• • Another general note: wikilink everything that can be wikilinked (e.g. Billboard, Allmusic, etc.) There is no such thing as over linking in references.

Actually I was told not to "overlink" the reference section when a reviewer was reviewing Dreaming of You (album) so I played it safe here.

Oh. I was told by an admin (J Milburn) to either link everything or nothing. It makes sense, because if you link something just once, and the reader sees another reference with that term in it, and if they do not know what it is, they have to manual search for it. I highly doubt the reader is going to search through tons and tons of refs for the same linked term. Michael Jester (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree, but when I do nominate the article at FAC hopefully it wont be a problem. I'm hopping to nominate the article after Erick successfully gets Romances to FA status, as its his goal to have the first Spanish album to be a FA.

• • Don't switch up the dates. Sometimes you have DD MMMM YYYY and other times you have YYYY-DD-MM. Be one and be consistent.
  • Last general note: A lot of "subscription required"s. If this is going to be a GA or FA, somehow users are going to have to verify the information. Just a heads up.

Yeah, well the information can be verified for those who can access it :)

Very true.

• • Ref 3
    • Billboard --> Billboard
    • John Lannert --> Lannert, John
    • Needs issn
  • Ref 6
    • Add publisher (EMI Latin)
  • Ref 8
    • Need issn
  • Ref 11
    • Allmusic --> Allmusic

The citation is doing that, I didn't put it in italics.

When typing in the work type work=''Allmusic''. The two apostrophes cancel out the italics.

• • • Fix the bracket problem

Huh?

The current title is "Amor Prohibido [Bonus Tracks"]. Brackets mess up when using it in templates. I think you have to use HTML code instead, not sure though.

That's the first 11. You can go on your own and fix the renaming ones. I hope these comments help, and if you have any questions feel free to contact me on my talk page!
—Michael Jester (talk) 06:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

 Done thank you so much for giving me these helpful comments :) Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 15:04, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I have fixed the following concerns however, I did left comments to those I did not fix for a better understanding. Again, thanks for commenting :) Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Amor Prohibido/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Shaidar cuebiyar (talk · contribs) 11:59, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Review started

I will be going through each of the criteria in order. I reserve the right to return to earlier comments/sections and revise/add to them until the review is finished. Unless otherwise indicated, maintain existing wikilinks and formatting. The review process should take about a week to ten days. If needed, I will allow an additional week for any requested changes to be made before making my decision.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:59, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

• I have finished my review and will allow one week from the following time stamp to allow changes to be made.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:10, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

</noinclude> A good article is—

Criterion 1

1. Well-written:

(a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and

(b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

Infobox
1. Longtype line is not needed for this article and can be deleted.
2. At Released = There's no section titled Release history so the link goes nowhere.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
3. At Recorded = <br> > <br />
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
4. For Genre, aim at generality rather than becoming overly specific. Adjust capitalisation. e.g. [[Music of Colombia#Cumbia|Progressive cumbia]], [[Tejano music|Tejano pop]], [[Techno music|techno]], [[dance-pop]], [[funk]], [[Latin pop]], [[Reggae music|reggae]] Note that the Lead has mostly cumbia and dance-pop songs which is sufficient for the infobox too. The other styles can be described in more detail in later sections of the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:54, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
5. Check producers: make sure it agrees with the Lead, and Personnel sections. Currently it does not.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Lead
1. First sentence is good but second one is in wrong place. The re-issue should be mentioned later in the Lead: probably in third paragraph.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
   2. Not quite far enough, you've moved it to the third sentence not third paragraph.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
2. Consider re-wording: "Production of Amor prohibido". In a music article the word 'production' relates specifically to record production. In this case its use is ambiguous, you probably mean "Recording of Amor prohibido" or "The release of Amor prohido" instead.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
3. producer of her music > principal record producer There are others involved per infobox and Personnel.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
4. though lead keyboardist Ricky Vela and backup singer Pete Astudillo helped with songwriting for the album. > although her band's members Ricky Vela and Pete Astudillo also helped with songwriting. Their roles in the band are unnecessary detail for the Lead.
5. number 29 Should have an unbreakable space in there.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
6. Reword in its first year, and it eventually became Specify 'eventually' e.g. by 2010 (or whenever it reached the top of that list).
7. It was certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) in April 1994, platinum in May, quadruple platinum (Latin type) in April 1995, double platinum in October 2002 and 20× Disco De Platino in February 2010, which denotes shipments of 2,000,000 copies. Unnecessarily detailed certifications, just give the bottom line: 20× Disco De Platino or double platinum. Depending on the following: Does double platinum mean shipments of 2,000,000? Does the 20× Disco De Platino mean the same thing (in terms of shipments)? If they are for the same shipments then just give the double platinum in the Lead and mention the 20× Disco De Platino later in main text. If however, the album shipped an additional 2,000,000 units from 2002 to 2010, then this should be in the Lead but explained better.
   1. For Spanish certifications a Platinum award is 100,000 copies shipped for English certifications (or "standard") is 1,000,000 copies. But Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
8. Selena embarked upon a worldwide tour in April 1994 to promote the album. > In April 1994 Selena embarked upon a worldwide tour to promote the album.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
9. was given high praise > was highly praised
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
10. Selena had broken several unprecedented records > Selena set several unprecedented records She can't have 'broken' unprecedented records, if they're 'unprecedented' that means no one else has achieved/attempted that standard.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
11. The album was believed to have "open the doors" > Her work has "opened the doors" Make sure the phrase is covered by the ref.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
12. Reword Selena had won two awards during the 1994 Tejano Music Awards and six prestigious awards posthumously at the 1995 Tejano Music Awards and the 1995 Lo Nuestro Awards. Only awards related to this particular album should be mentioned here.
    1. How would I reword it? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
    2. That would depend on which awards were won for this particular album.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:02, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
13. " Four tracks from Amor prohibido became number one singles," Name them: these are notable enough for the Lead.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
14. chart, and became the only Spanish album by a female artist to do so, as of 2011. > chart. As of 2011, it is the only Spanish album by a female artist to have done so.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 22:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:52, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
15. Sort out wikilink on "Fotos y Recuerdos" which is redirected to "Back on the Chain Gang" vs "Fotos Y Recuerdos" which goes to an article about Selena's single based on "Back on the Chain Gang".
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 00:46, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
16. Sort out the number of singles from the album, infobox has six, but "Techno Cumbia" is described as the album's seventh single at its own article. The Lead here, has it as a number-one single.
    1. I'm not getting what you mean? Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 00:46, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
    2. Is "Techno Cumbia" the seventh single from this album? If it is it should be in the infobox.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:15, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
17. While I have your attention don't use *{{done}} during this review: they'll take up too much load up time by the end of the process. A simple '''done''' per section is sufficient.
    1. I'm sorry, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 00:46, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
    2. I've adjusted more of the done templates and numbering.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:58, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Production and development
1. Restructuring of the two lead-in sentences is required, there's a problem with 35th Grammys – held on February 24, 1993 – Selena did not win any awards at that ceremony! You might mean the 36th Grammys – held on March 1, 1994 where she won Best Mexican-American Album for Selena Live!. If so, she can't have had much preparation time nor could there be much of a halt to her recording if Amor prohibido was released 12 days later on March 13! This may affect relevant sentences in the Lead too.
   1. So you want me to add that the album was released 12 days after she won a Grammy Award? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 00:46, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
   2. Not particularly. I was pointing out the inconsistency in the chronology of when she won the award, when the album was being prepared and when the recording was delayed. It all needs to be sorted out and explained better than currently exists.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:15, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
   3. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:28, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
   4. The first sentence's expression needs further effort.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:02, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
2. Reword information per instructions in previous parts of review.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:28, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
3. For text below the Lead: delink 2nd and subsequent appearances of earlier linked terms. e.g. Live! is linked in two adjacent sentences. Check for other instances of similar overlinkage.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:28, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
4. Clarify Selena's brother, who was the producer of her music, A.B. Quintanilla III, became the main producer and songwriter e.g. Selena's brother, A.B. Quintanilla III, was the main record producer and songwriter
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:28, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
5. Which rock song did Pérez write or co-write?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:15, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 01:28, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
   2. Follow through to track listing: show Chris Pérez for this track. (Note: change to the form of his name: adjust throughout article)
   3. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
6. He had help from backup singer Pete Astudillo and lead keyboardist Ricky Vela for ideas and inspiration in songwriting. > He received songwriting ideas and inspiration from Selena's band members: backup singer Pete Astudillo and lead keyboardist Ricky Vela.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
7. he was shocked and surprised that > he was surprised that Less hyperbole.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
8. Adjust With not enough lyrics to complete Instead of 'lyrics' you probably mean 'tracks' here.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
9. began writing songs directly out of the Tejano music genre and into > began writing songs outside of the Tejano music genre and into
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
10. Trim that he didn't want to write "the same songs continuously", he also commented on the question, stating that he wanted to keep the band's image fresh and "cool" so it could be accessible to a younger audience e.g. that he did not want to write "the same songs continuously", but to keep Selena's image fresh and "cool" and more accessible to a younger audience. Note: end sentence here, the movement belongs with the next sentence.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
11. Combine & trim which helped expand the Tejano Music Movement.[4] The movement in Texas helped spead further awareness of Tejano music and it became a popular trend.[4][5] e.g. Amor prohibido helped spread the Tejano Music Movement beyond Texas where it became a popular trend.[4][5]
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
12. Quintanilla III kept the album further immersed > Quintanilla III further immersed the album
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
13. Between January 1994 and mid-February 1994 > Between January and mid-February 1994 However:Infobox has the album recorded in 1993?
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
14. remixed at Q-Productions, Selena's father's, Abraham Quintanilla Jr's recording studio. > remixed at the Q-Productions studio – owned by Selena's father, Abraham Quintanilla Jr.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
15. Some recording sessions took place at Tejano singer Manny Guerra's recording studio, and in Hollywood, California > Further recording sessions took place at Manny Guerra's studio, and in Hollywood, California Delink California (its available at Hollywood if anyone wants it) Note: depending on when these sessions occurred you may have to reword 'Further' as 'Earlier'.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
16. If these three locations are the only recording venues then they can be added to the infobox and so replace 1993<br />Various recording locations with *Manny Guerra's studio (1993)}} *[[Hollywood]], California (1993) *[[Q-Productions]], [[Corpus Christi, Texas]] (January–February 1994) Note: I've assumed the 1993 relates to the first two venues: adjust as necessary.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
    2. Delete the first 1993.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:02, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
17. Producers and songwriters who collaborated with Selena This implies that Selena was involved in the record production and songwriting (yes, she co-wrote one song but that's not sufficient to support this statement).
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
18. Separate and trim the list of songwriters from producers. Some of these have already been described and don't need to be mentioned again.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:53, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
    1. You want me to remove all songwriters (except producers)? Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
    2. The songwriters should be in the next section: Recording and composition. This section focuses on Production and development. While talking about songwriters make sure the credits at Track listing agree with content in main text and that it is suitably referenced by an independently reliable source (e.g. ASCAP). Furthermore at Personnel the songwriting is not given (redundant).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:02, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
19. For the Selena: 20 Years of Music collection, > The 2010 version of Amor prohibido was issued as part of the Selena: 20 Years of Music collection with additional tracks. Note end sentence here.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
20. were associated with "Donde Quiera Que Estes",[3] a duet that Selena corroborated on with the Barrio Boyzz.[6] > One of these tracks, "Donde Quiera Que Estés", which is a duet by Selena and the Barrio Boyzz, was co-written by Miguel Flores, Desmond Child and K. C. Porter.[3][6] Note: changed track name to avoid redirect.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
21. Delete Selena also collaborated with some musicians that she had previously worked with; Stephanie Lynn had done backing vocals for "Amor prohibido" as well as Rick Alvarez. Same information appears in Recording and composition section.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
22. Composer José Luis Borrego had worked with Selena on the track "Cobrarde". > José Luis Borrego composed the track "Cobrarde".
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
23. Lead vocalist of The Pretenders', Chrissy Hynde, was given lyric rights for the song "Fotos y recuredos", which samples their single "Back On The Chain Gang".[3][7] > Chrissy Hynde was given songwriting credit – with Vela - for "Fotos y recuredos", which samples The Pretenders' 1982 single "Back on the Chain Gang".[3][7]shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:59, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
24. Puerto Rican American producer, Domingo Padilla had filled in for Brian "Red" Moore for the duet with the Barrio Boyzz. > Puerto Rican-American producer Domingo Padilla was used for "Donde Quiera Que Estés".
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
25. Gregg Vickers, Roger Emerson, Steven Torres and James Moore also worked with Selena for the first time on Amor prohibido.[8] > Also working with Selena for the first time were Gregg Vickers, Roger Emerson, Steven Torres and James Moore.[8] Delink Roger Emerson (piped page has no relevance).
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
26. Selena later revealed that some of the songs, > According to Selena some of the songs,
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
27. , were written for the album but were not included in its final release. > , which were written for the album were not included in its final release.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
28. Quintanilla III later responded that the songs > Quintanilla III later recalled that the songs
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
29. didn't > did not Remove all contractions (unless inside a direct quote) from the entire article.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
30. were going to be used for Selena's forthcoming Tejano-influenced album > were due to be used for a projected Tejano-influenced album
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
31. which was projected to be released several months after the initial release of Selena's crossover attempt > planned for release several months after Selena's Dreaming of You Note:removed piped content & album title italicised.
More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:50, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
1. 1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Recording and composition
1. This section is far too long: there are some 1800 words here. Seven of ten album tracks have their own article so much of the content is not needed in the album's article. If its not severely trimmed I'll have more on this at Criterion 3b. At this point I'm only considering this section's expression and style.
   1. I removed critical commentary to the critical reception section. Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
2. Re "Amor prohibido" sound sample caption: number one single > number-one single Check throughout article. Note different formating when written as single which peaked at number one which uses a non-breakable space. Make sure all content is supported by refs.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
3. Selena, who began creating "Amor prohibido" by humming in her tour bus,[10] was inspired by her grandparents. > Selena provided the concept for "Amor prohibido" when humming on her tour bus,[10] she was remembering her grandparents' forbidden love story. Greater clarity.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
4. Selena wanted to create a song that was based on her grandparents' struggle to be together. Her grandparents, who were Mexican immigrants, were forbidden by their parents to have a relationship because they were both from different social classes. > Selena wanted a song describing how the couple's parents prohibited any relationship due to differences in social class. Concision.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
5. became consequential to Selena. I'm not sure about the use of 'consequential' here, probably 'significant' or 'important' would work better.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:07, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
6. Re "No Me Queda Más" sound sample caption: Vela not in producers list. Why does he have frustrations? emotive vocalization on "No me queda más". > emotive vocalization here.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
7. Re "Bidi Bidi Bom Bom" sound sample caption: Ref for award? Check songwriters/producers with info elsewhere in this article: its not consistent. Other content needs ref.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
8. Jorge Alberto Pino is now Pino and Gregg Vickers is now Vickers (both mentioned previously in main text).
9. Herrera not mentioned elsewhere.
   1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
10. "Pino and Silvetti wrote the chord structure and the guitar part" but they are not credited for songwriting or composing?
11. Brian "Red" Moore is now Brian (he's been mentioned before, first name used to differentiate from James). , a family friend, its redundant (already mentioned in article).
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
12. 0uptempo or uptempo? Is this a spelling mistake or is my music knowledge just deficient?
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
13. Some of the content here belongs at Critical reception (or is deletable as redundant).
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
14. and poverty differences. > and [[Socioeconomics|socioeconomic]] differences. Note: wikilink added.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:23, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
15. ¶2:Once again, check songwriters: make sure they are all verified by a reliable & independent source (e.g. ASCAP). Clearly the existing sources (album notes, books, family/friends memories) are inconsistent with different information being supplied in different places. Once you have the information make sure it is consistent throughout the article(s) that you work on. In this particular case, "Bidi Bidi Bom Bom" is written by Selena and Astudillo only: no Pérez & no Quintanilla III.(see here) More on these sorts of problems at Criterion 2b.
    1. I removed Perez and Quintanilla III. Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
16. won several unprecedented achievements Clarify.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
17. was an unplanned song Clarify.
    1. Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 06:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:00, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
18. Rock fusion > rock fusion
19. which spans two octaves Redundant, a similar phrase was used in ¶1.
20. Again, much of this content is Critical review or is redundant.
21. Move italics away from year of release, Women and Music in America Since 1900 (2002) > Women and Music in America Since 1900 (2002)
22. helped Selena peak in her fan base by 1995 Clarify.
23. one of his favorite songs, and wrote that "... Selena was Trim, e.g. one of his favorite songs, "Selena was
24. in this gem ... " > in this gem"
25. He ended his review by stating that he had really enjoyed her laugh during the guitar solo. > He had particularly enjoyed her laughter during the guitar solo.
26. Aaron Sebastian Cruz, also from Gringo Gazette, wrote that " ... Selena's passion > Fellow Gringo Gazette writer Aaron Sebastian Cruz felt "Selena's passion Trim.
27. Cruz called the track a fun reggae song that is best at any social gathering > For Cruz, the fun reggae track is best at any social gathering Trim.
28. She is overwhelmed by her emotions and cannot control them. Her knees and her heart begin to tremble when she hears his voice. > She is overwhelmed by her emotions, her knees and heart tremble whenever she hears his voice. Trim.
29. ¶3:Again about half of this is Critical reception or redundant.
30. released as the third single from Amor prohibido > released as the third single Trim, by now we should know which album it came from.
31. Delink Suzette Quintanilla: piped article has little on her. While there provide a reliable source on when he fell in love with her. Furthermore, you should qualify the 'love' as 'unrequited love'.
32. and he and Quintanilla III transformed the writings into a song, > and with Quintanilla III transformed it into a song. Note: sentence ends here.
33. Delete which Quintanilla III then wanted Selena to record for Amor prohibido Self-evident.
34. ¶4:As before. Again, check songwriters.
35. with Spanish translation by Vela Contradicted by song uses samples from The Pretenders' song, no references to prisoners in the Spanish lyrics and women who kisses a pictures of her beloved boyfriend. Reword this description so that it is more coherent.
More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:13, 6 January 2012 (UTC) Removed copy n paste error.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:35, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

36. "was highly praised by music critics" which ones?
37. a lonely woman
38. kisses a picture
39. every night,
40. ¶5:Again, songwriters. Vela not mentioned at ASCAP.
41. had wanted the song to be a cumbia song mixed with techno. He also believed that Selena was the first artist to sing a "Techno-Cumbia" song with elements of R&B, blues and funk. > had wanted a cumbia song mixed with techno and believes that Selena was the first artist to record a techno cumbia track containing elements of R&B, blues and funk.
42. technopop
43. reggaeshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:17, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
44. Not sure what this means: a party that is not favored among young adolescences and teaching them instead of 'favored among' would 'popular with' or 'preferred by' work better?
45. ¶6:Again, check songwriters. Quintanilla III (as Abraham Quintanilla) is mentioned at ASCAP but not here.
46. released as the second promotional single of Amor prohibido, was written by Astudillo, and produced by Quintanilla III and Silvetti. > released as the second promotional single was produced by Quintanilla III and Silvetti. Songwriters will appear later.
47. Delete "Si una vez" became the second song, after "No me queda más", to be included in Amor prohibido to be inspired by the emotions of Los Dinos members.[32] Redundant due to next sentences. By the way, what are Los Dinos? Yes, I know but a casual reader would not: explain the term on its first appearance in the main text.
48. "Si una vez" was written from a man's point of view by Astudillo after being dumped by his girlfriend. > It was written by Quintanilla III and Astudillo from a man's point of view after the latter had been dumped by his girlfriend.
49. Quintanilla III said in an interview that he really liked the song > Quintanilla III liked the song Concision.
50. helped the song "fit in" to the album > helped it "fit in" the album Trim.
51. Quintanilla III said that "Si una vez" is experimental music and helped boost Amor prohibido as a progressive cumbia album > He believes the track, with its experimental music, helped portray Amor prohibido as a progressive cumbia album Clarity.
52. with its Mariachi cumbia rhythms > with its mariachi cumbia rhythms Keep piped link.
53. Vela, who also was interviewed, said that the band wanted to performed with the Guitarrón guitar, instead of the traditional guitars that they had used for the other songs on the album. Vela also said he used a Mariachi trumpet, with a moderate Cumbia-beat. > Vela said that the band wanted to perform with the Mexican guitarrón, instead of the usual guitars used for other album tracks. He also used a mariachi trumpet, with a moderate cumbia beat. Trim & clarify, avoid Guittarrón guitar (English: big guitar guitar), keep wikilinkage.
54. Except the last two sentences in ¶6, the rest has technical descriptions which can be left on the song's own article.
55. ¶7Check producers with other parts of article.
56. During an interview with La Nación, Selena stated that she wanted to record the song because she believed her fans would appreciate her choice in Latin pop dance. > According to an interview with La Nación, Selena wanted to record it as her fans would appreciate her choice in Latin pop dance.
57. She also wanted to attract attention from Hispanics who were not acquainted with her music. > She also wanted to attract interest from Hispanics unacquainted with her music. Trim, wikilink first appearance.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:22, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
58. uptempo
59. that is influenced by the pop and dance music genres, > influenced by pop and dance music. Trim, sentence ends here.
60. and uses several musical > It uses several musical
61. At the beginning of the song, > Introductory
62. The lyrics describe
63. at apartment number 512, > at an apartment, Trim.
64. not her "type" begins to > not her "type" begin to Grammar.
65. As you can see this section has considerable problems with its expression. Even after all of the above changes are made, further reduction of the content is strongly advised: move more of it to the relevant article and/or delete it from this article. In the following sections I may not point out all of the expression problems nor necessarily provide examples of better expression. You will have to make such improvements yourself.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 13:05, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Release
1. Much of this section deals with chart performance, commercial success, shipments/certifications and impact for other Latin artists. Such descriptions belong in Commercial performance or Legacy.
2. Reword lead-in sentence: specify 'soon after'. According to here, it first reached number one on June 11, 1994. How is this soon after its release?
3. Fix Billboard's "Top 50 Latin Albums" > [[Billboard Top Latin Albums|''Billboard'' Top Latin Albums]]
4. Clarify 'took the number-one and two slots, respectively' How can the album be both one and two on the same chart?
5. Check It remained at number one for five consecutive weeks. This is outdated information, as from May 6, 1995. The album remained at number one consecutively for a lot longer: its 4th run there was from April 15, 1995 to July 29 (that's 16 weeks according to the succession box at bottom of the article). You'll need a more recent ref to verify this.
6. Check In December 1994, the album sold more than 500,000 copies, compare with sold approximately 2,000 units a week before her death. Even if December had five weeks that would only be about 10,000 units for the month.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 13:05, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
7. previously unheard of
8. Tejano artist; Selena and La Mafia were the only Tejano singers to accomplished this feat. > Tejano artist: only Selena and La Mafia have done so.
9. By the fall of 1994, Avoid hemisphere biased terms.
10. and made four number one hits, Get a better word for 'made'.
11. replacing Gloria Estefan's Mi Tierra Complete this phrase.
12. It sold over 50,000 copies in the United States, Yeah? Compare with No. 6 here where it sold 500,000 in December 1994 alone!
13. How is this a Gold album? You need to make it clear whether your talking standard gold certification or Disco De Oro certification. While there change pipe to avoid redirect.
14. All these certifications/shipments should be verified by a RIAA source (currently ref [44] or [100]) or Nielsen SoundScan data.
15. Check also your years in this part: it gets standard gold in April 1995 not 1994. If you're talking Disco De Oro then there's a discrepancy, according to RIAA_certifications#Spanish, these were first awarded in 2000.
16. Before Selena was murdered, When? By whom? Yeah, I know but a casual reader wouldn't. According to Criterion 3a: this information should be in the Lead since this is a major factor in her posthumous sales/chart success both for this album and Dreaming of You.
17. The album was thought to have helped Selena become Trim.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:48, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
18. among the "best selling albums When?
19. thought Estefan had Trimmed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:58, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Amor Prohibido Tour
1. De-italicise tour name and wikilink it.
2. most notably the > in particular the
3. and Reba McEntire.[53][54][55][49] Reorder numerically, also reduce ref clutter to three or less (consider replacing the four ref tabs with a single Note).
4. crossover album. Specify.
5. that "[h]er appearance
6. things to come&nbsp:... Fix.
7. Clark also stated that the concert was Trim.
8. with the Barrio Boyzz, Possessive apostrophe not needed, delink Barrio Boyzz (previously linked).
9. Wikilinks needed for Argentina, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico and Central America.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:58, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Commercial performance
1. Some material from Release belongs here, but duplication should be minimised.
2. number 183 Non-breakable space added: other instances elsewhere in the article will not be shown but fix still them all.
3. The following week it rose to number 36,[59] and peaked at number 29.[60] Trim to just peak value. Also delete extra space at end of sentence.
4. Pardon my ignorance but what's the difference between Billboard Latin 50 chart and Billboard Top Latin Albums? All the Billboard charting are best reffed by Billboard, Allmusic or equivalent. Harrington and Tarrendell are not equivalent.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:32, 7 January 2012‎
5. For Mexican charts and certification you need a Asociación Mexicana de Productores de Fonogramas y Videogramas (AMPROFON) source or equivalent.
6. Likewise use appropriate authoritive source for other charts. Charevez is not reliable for such charting.
7. Once again, sort out number-one vs number one according to whether used as an adjectival phrase (e.g. number-one single or number-one hit) or as a noun (e.g. peaked at number one) respectively. This needs fixing throughout the article.
8. Delink Grammy Award, it is available at the award category which follows nearby.
9. Tejano Music Awards for Selena y Los Dinos? If so this should be mentioned in a note. Furthermore check wikilink goes to right year's awards. Can't find "Record of the Year" mentioned.
10. Pardon my Spanish, but does the award category use Balad or Ballad?
11. For the sentence starting with "The album led Selena to win" Did Selena win those four awards at both ceremonies or is this a combination of awards she won between the two ceremonies: it needs clarification.
More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:22, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Critical reception
1. Another section that is far too long. Currently over 1000 words, try to condense it.
2. Remember that the Lead says: "Amor prohibido received mostly positive reviews and was highly praised," You need to substantiate this statement.
3. All direct quotes require a ref as close to the quote as possible.
4. Check Allmusic rating: it is 4.5 stars not 5 (or 9 out of 10), check you're looking at the original version and not a later one.
5. Wikilink first appearance of Billboard in main text but not in this section. (Leave it linked in the Professional ratings table).
6. Many of the ellipses (...) are not needed in the direct quotes you're using.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:19, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
7. He also commented that the album Trim.
8. Check Tarradell source, does he use crossover or cross over?
9. Frank Hoffmann wrote in his Encyclopedia
10. Don't wikilink singles again.
11. Hoffmann is directly quoted four times but no ref? Try here at page 980.
12. wrote that Amor prohibido was Trim.
13. Delink Dreaming of You. By this stage it should be linked earlier in the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:33, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
14. ¶2First sentence needs trimming of ellipses, but add a full stop.
15. Ending his review, Morales stated that the only disappointment > Morales' only disappointment Concision (another example where the existing expression is far too superfluous.)
16. By this time in the section, each new source/quote/review should be providing a new concept/idea and take the article into a new direction. For every sentence, ask yourself, 'does this material have something new to say?' Secondly ask yourself, 'can this be written more precisely?'
17. Delink Los Dinos if second time in main text. If its the first time in the main text keep it linked but you need to explain what Los Dinos is. Furthermore, if the album is commonly ascribed to Selena y Los Dinos (or Selena and Los Dinos or Selena and The Guys) – even if erroneously – then this should be mentioned in the Lead (where you hide the name behind 'her former band').
18. Burr also commented that the album had hit the right keys Trim.
19. Clark's quote has song/single titles inside it: they get single quote marks e.g. 'Bidi bidi bom bom' when being quoted: unless you're using a block quotation. See MOS:QUOTE.
20. With Browne's quote, I don't see it on page 2, so provide instruction or a separate link to page 1. Meanwhile remove [] from around Amor prohibido as this is not a substituted phrase (yeah, its been reformatted but that's a different thing). Furthermore, this is a substantial quote (about 100 words long) and so should be formatted as a block quotation (note there will be changes in formatting of content) using Template:Quote or equivalent.
21. ¶3&¶4 deal with individual tracks/singles. Given the previous two ¶¶ have already described much of this material its getting repetitive and supeflous. Such material can be transferred to the relevant single's article. Interested readers can go there. Consequently I would delete these two ¶¶.
22. ¶3 Ramiro Burr? Is he the same as the book author in previous ¶, The Dallas Morning News and the Billboard writer? Some sort of general description (e.g. music journalist) is only needed on his first appearance, there after only use last name.
23. "Amor prohibido" and thirteen of Selena's other top ten singles charted in the Hot Latin Songs chart, and she was named the "top Latin artist of the '90s" and "Best selling Latin artist of the decade" by Billboard.[80] How is this Critical reception? It belongs in Commercial performance or Awards and nominations.
24. wrote that with its French lyrics, the song could have been popular This misrepresents Burr's statement. Fix.
25. helped Selena peak in her fan base by 1995 Clarify.
26. ¶4 Fix according to previous instructions. Delink second or subsequent appearances.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Legacy
1. Expand LGBT on first appearance.
2. because of the meanings of the lyrics. Specify & ref.
3. Delink song titles, South Texas if they've been previously linked.
4. The title track, Amor prohibido, was selling in Puerto Rico Trim/format, clarify: 'was selling'.
5. the first time Puerto Ricans bought an album by Selena Clarify/remove hyperbole: surely some of her previous albums were bought by Puerto Ricans? Claim not supported by ref.
6. Amor prohibido became the [[List of best-selling Latin albums in the United States|Best-Selling Latin Album of All Time]], though Dreaming of You, which was released posthumously, surpassed her own sales record. Note changed wikilinks. Do you know when it became Best-Selling Latin Album and when it was replaced by Dreaming of You?
7. , an Amor prohibido doll was released
8. perfume bearing the album's name --shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Track listing
1. Make sure that all the songs' writers are verified by an independent reliable sources e.g. ASCAP. Supply in-line citation per song. The existing sources used in the article have different ideas about the songs' writers but only registered writers should be used. Make sure that the whole article (and, if you're involved in other GANs, any of the allied articles) is consistent in the description of those song writers.
2. Since so many record producers were involved, a separate column for these per track should be set up.
3. Avoid re-directs.
4. Wikilink [[Barrio Boyzz]]
5. At "Spoken Liner Notes", the existing Note is too long for the template: replace with a Note tab and explain this content in a Notes section.
6. unhide Selena y Los Dinos from band. Keep wikilink in Notes section.
7. delink music video – its actually a redirect.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:16, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Personnel
1. Credits, add an Allmusic ref.
2. Managerial personnel not needed. Move Producer(s) to Technical and production subsection.
3. Vocals – add a non-breakable space before the en-dash. Make sure they're all spaced en-dashes.
4. Where possible combine similar activities. e.g. * [[fashion design|Clothing design]] – Selena, Martin Gomez ([[Wardrobe stylist|stylist]]) and * [[Art director|Art direction]], [[Cosmetics|make-up]] – Lisette Lorenzo
5. Delete songwriters: they should all be in the Track listing section per track.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:16, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Charts and certification
1. Default listings should be alphabetical per country, then per chart/certifying agent.
2. Mexico certification for sales or shipments or unknown? Note needed.
3. Mexico ref next to the country's name. By the way the ref should be from AMPROFON or equivalent.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:22, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Awards and nominations
1. Modify section hatnote. {{Main|List of awards and nominations received by Selena}}
More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:33, 8 January 2012 (UTC) Final comments
1. Whilst many of the above points have been tackled there is still more work to be done on prose and style.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:45, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Criterion 2

2. Verifiable with no original research:

(a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;

(b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose); and

(c) it contains no original research.

References I will be checking all the references and each comment below is under their number as they existed at this time. This order may change from current numbering as refs get moved, added or deleted. Preliminary comment: all refs including newspapers should have a publisher. Newspapers and other works are generally italicised but publishers are not. In line with the rest of the article, use mdy dates for date, archive date and retrieved date. Wikilink first appearance but de-link subsequent appearances in this section.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
1. Is this the same content as at Selena Remembered? Check that you're using the correct cite plate, consider Template:Cite video. In any case, provide wLs for: [[Edward James Olmos]] [[Q-Productions]] [[Corpus Christi, Texas|Corpus Christi]] Add names of director(s), writer(s), producer(s), and station. Her Life... Her Music... Her Dream is not a quote but is part of the extended title. Note that the minutes value is the time at which the information may be found not the total length of the episode/video. Content not verified.
2. Where possible use a free, open and on-line, but reliable, source. I'm sure I've seen this information at many such sources. wL: Daily Democrat. Provide publisher. Check date format: use mdy style. Content not verified.
3. wL: [[Selena]] [[EMI Latin]] Add format, publisherid, and page number(s) per use:
   • a Quantify how many tracks have either Astudillo & Vela or both credited as co-writers with Quintanilla III.
   • b, c, d Not verified.
   • e Not verified. Change ref tab order.
   • f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n Not verified.
4. Again is this a cite video? More details needed: credits, director, producer, narrator. Time for each point needed. Fix date format.
   • a Content not verified.
   • b Statement almost same as previous sentence. Content not verified.
   • c Content not verified.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
5. |author=Gregory Curtis > |first=Gregory |last=Curtis Convert other instances author= into similar format. Adjust |year=2000 |date=May 2000 Convert other instances of year only when greater detail on release date is available. Accessdate not needed if not on-line. a, b, c Content not verified.
6. |last=Celeste Arrarás |first=María > |last=Arrarás |first=María Celeste Family name is Arrarás not Celeste Arrarás. Note: page value is the page on which the information can be found not the total number of pages in the book. If providing a url try to get a searchable version, even if its only a snippet view. Google books here gives Barrio Boyzz on pages 20, 65 and 162 but from the snippet view I can't tell which one has the content: hence not verified.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:52, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
7. At last, a verifiable source. Firstly use the Template:Allmusic and adjust work=</i>[[Allmusic]]<i>. Fix title with album part in italics.
   • a Disappointingly, there's no information at this url about Gregg Vickers, Roger Emerson, Steven Torres or James Moore. Even the credit tab does not show Vickers, Emerson, Torres or James Moore among personnel. Content not verified.
   • b Verifies release date.
8. Again, use Allmusic template, fix author's names, title and add |authorlink=Stephen Thomas Erlewine. Delink Allmusic, Rovi Corporation (and subsequent uses).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:40, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
9. Modify to Patoski, p. 172. Content not verified. For the Bibliography section have you considered adjusting the References section to have subsections: General and Specific? For a sample of what I mean, see Missing Link Records article. In your case, you'd move Patoski at Bibliography to General and then each paged ref would be in Specific section. Note: this is entirely optional.
10. Is this same as ref[1]? If so, combine them (check spelling: Lanner vs Lannert) and use cite video template. Assign roles to people being credited. Language as being (in English) not needed: this is default for this version of wikipedia. Fix airdate values. Time for each event needed. a b Content not verified.
11. Is this same as ref[6]? If so, combine them. page number per cite use is required.
12. If Patoski again then use similar to ref[9]. If it has to be edition 1 then okay. In any case which page is it? Also what edition & year is the Bibliography one? Content not verified.
13. Check time at which each event occurs. a, b Content not verified. We're now up to 13 refs (although it looks like at least three are the same source as one of the others) and some 40 claims but only one or two have been checkable.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:24, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
14. Delink Selena (previously linked at ref[3]). While there check format of last name: Quintanilla-Pérez (fix all instances). Fix |title='Amor prohibido': Selena Digital Sheet Music Try to get an on-line source of a sample page where possible, e.g. here as long as it covers your claims. Content not verified at original ref.
15. Good: a checkable ref. Fix |last name=Hernández |publisher=[[University of Texas Press]] ([[University of Texas at Austin]]) Add |pages=95–96 |location=[[Austin, Texas|Austin, TX]] Content is verified at source.
16. Fix: last & first names, publisher, location, page(s) (Note: not total number of pages in the book but what pages each of the cited information is found at). Content at b (page 126) is supported but a is not clearly seen.
17. What is BMI? (expand the acronym at first use). If you're using two (or more) editions of Patoski then you need to add more material to this tag. Content not verified. Is this same page as [9], then use same ref tab.
18. Delink Selena. Replace Quintanilla III as author2 with correct co-author. Fix title. Add (Alfred Piantodosi) to publisher. Content at a, b, c, d, e supported.
19. Publisher? Is it in Spanish? page number? Content not verified.
20. Grupa Reforma is a publisher (not italicised) while there add ([[Alejandro Junco de la Vega]]) to publisher after Grupa Reforma. Content not verified. shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:42, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
21. Delink both authors (fix author2 per ref[18]). Fix title. Content verified.
22. Fix title format/spelling. Delink previously linked terms (I may forget to mention this again but you have to make sure its done in all the following refs). Adj publisher per [18]. Content not verfied.
23. Publisher? MoS for title. Content not verified. For songwriters use ASCAP or equivalent.
24. Location? Content not verified.
25. Fix per previous comments of similar. Additionally check title. a, b Content not verified.
26. Morales says "its almost an improvement" this does not support the claim in this article. Modify article's content to reflect this source. Provide page no.
27. Fix per previous. Content not verified.
28. Same as [24], just add the page no. to previous. Content not verified.
29. Check first/last names & their formatting. Location? Content verified.
30. Format part of title. Content verified.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
31. Add |page=21–22 Add to publisher: (Adam Lerner). Location? Content verified.
32. page nos? in Spanish? a, b Content not verified.
33. Fix |chapter='Si una vez' Authors? a, b Content not verified.
34. Adjust first/last name. Adjust date formats. Publisher? Page no.? Content not verified.
35. Fix per previous. a, b, c Content not verified.
36. Per [9].
37. wL [[Billboard (magazine)|Billboard]] First time in refs.
    • a Content outdated: see previous discussion above.
    • b Not best source for certification: should be a RIAA source.
    • c Content verified.
    • d Put ref tab at closest point to direct quote: i.e. right after the comma. You may need another ref tab at end of sentence. Content verified.
38. wL newspaper name, add publisher, fix date formats.
    • a It sold 500,000 in December 1994? Very doubtful, if its selling an average of 2000 per week. Maybe it should be 'by December 1994'? However, sales claims are to be verified by a more reliable source, e.g. RIAA or NielsenSCAN. Information about La Mafia not visible in snippet view. Content not verified.
    • b Content not verified. Does Tarradell use the phrase "opened the doors" or is this a cliché term?
39. Add |url=http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/01/obituaries/grammy-winning-singer-selena-killed-in-shooting-at-texas-motel.html?pagewanted=all Fix first/last names, title, date formats. wL newspaper. Add publisher. Adjust page no.: this information is in the Obituaries section not on page 1.
    • a Not best source for certification: should be a RIAA source.
    • b Claims not supported by this source.
40. page nos. per citation. Location? Adjust |publisher=[[Duke University Press|Duke Univ Pr]]
    • a Not best source for certification: should be a RIAA source.
    • b Claims not supported by this source.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:10, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
41. Same as [6] and [11]? add page no. Content not verified.
42. Adjust name order of second author. Not best source for certification: should be a RIAA source.
43. Adjust first/last names. wL newspaper. Publisher? Not best source for certification: should be a RIAA source.
44. Note that all the Latin certifications were awarded in February 2010: this contradicts a lot of the information presented in the article. Furthermore, these are duplicate certificates (for shipments already recognised) and are used for Los Premios de Oro y De Platino Hence the Lead's statement "It was certified 20x Platinum by" is misleading to casual readers – this is not the standard meaning of the RIAA certification – it should only have double platinum here. That certificate was awarded in October 2002 (not February 2010). In the main text you can describe the relatively new Los Premios de Oro y De Platino designation (created in 2000) and the 20x Platinum becomes 20x Disco De Platino with the same ref.
45. Gone? The template is incorrectly filled in. Presumably its the same as ref[44]? If you correct the content then ref[4] can be applied for the whole sentence and the other dubious refs (for this information) can be removed.
46. Names. Fix |journal=Billboard, the template generates the necessary italics. Fix date, page no. Content verified.
47. Fix title of book (or is it a journal?), what you've got is a chapter or page title. Add volume no. and page no. Supplied snippet view is unsatisfactory for content checking.
    • a "was thought to have helped" according to whom? Content not verified. By the way the decade is not over when the article was written (1995) so claim of 'most successful artist of the decade' not substantiated or imprecise.
    • b, d Content not verified. A more reliable source is required for these awards.
    • c Confusion over which categories were won at which ceremony. Content not verified. A more reliable source is required for these awards.
48. Names. Fix Billboard in title, date format, add publisher. Subscription required? Content not verified, statement is vague: is there a place value/qualification for 'was among the "best selling albums...' e.g. 'was among the "top 200 best selling albums...' or 'was among the "best selling Latin albums...' or 'was among the "best selling albums of 1995...' Note: my content is in italics and may not appear in original.
49. Check the year: provide full date of release. Last name is San Miguel. Location? Pages?
    • a Appears to be verified on pages 110–111 but can't read latter on my version of Google books.
    • b Put refs in numerical order. Record Houston audience verified but not for Amor Prohibido Tour, her best attended performance was in February 1993 while this tour started the following year in February 1994. There's no mention of the country artists listed. Claim contradicted by source provided: change sentence in article.
    • c Grammy nomination verified but use the Grammy's own website (or equivalent) for award wins/noms.
50. Newspaper? Publisher? Fix |title=Way North of the Border. Content not verified.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:48, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
51. wL newspaper, however pipe to Daily News of Los Angeles (its name at time of publication). Publisher? Complete the title. Almost certainly this is same news article as here by Tarradell. If so use the latter as an on-line source as subscription is not needed. Add author names. However neither Enrique Iglesias nor Ricky Martin are mentioned. Content not supported.
52. Check title, 'Music' refers to the section of the newspaper and not part of the item's title. wL newspaper. Publisher? Content not verified.
53. wL newspaper. Publisher? Fix |title='Tejano' Singer Shot to Death Add |last=The Associated Press |authorlink=Associated Press Remove subscription required: content is accessible without it. Content verified: country artists are named.
54. in Spanish. Change newspaper to publisher but add ([[Televisa]]) . Supports performance at Astrodome – but only at 61,000 attendance – it does not add any new content. Unless usable elsewhere this ref should be deleted from the article.
55. Reformat entire ref <ref name="rolemodel">Orozco, Cynthia E. [http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/QQ/fquxg.html Quintanilla Pérez, Selena]. The Handbook of Texas online. Retrieved on 29 May 2009</ref> in accordance with majority of other refs. e.g. <ref name="rolemodel">{{cite web |last=Orozco |first=Cynthia E. |url=http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/QQ/fquxg.html |title=Quintanilla Pérez, Selena (Selena) |work=[[Handbook of Texas|The Handbook of Texas Online]] |publisher=[[Texas State Historical Association]] |year=1999 |accessdate=May 29, 2009 }}</ref> This is a very good ref and can be used more in the article. In particular, the name of her band should be given as an alternative to Selena as the artist in the Lead. e.g. Second sentence in the Lead could start with Amor prohibido, sometimes credited to [[Selena y Los Dinos]] (her band), incorporates mostly A similar statement with this ref should then be put in Production and development.
56. Location? a, b Content verified.
57. Publisher? Fix names, date formats (check day value).
    • a Quote supported.
    • b "her final televised concert" Not supported, its her final performance but nothing about it being televised.
    • c No mention of Guatemala. Claim not supported.
    • d Quote supported but content i.e. four number-one hits needs better ref e.g. Billboard, Allmusic or equivalent.
58. Per [9].
59. Fix names, title, date, publisher. Delink newspaper: should be wL at first appearance [43].
    • a, b, c, d Content verified in snippet. However charting information is better reffed by Billboard, Allmusic or equivalent.
    • e Content not verified.
60. Fix names, title, date, publisher. Delink previously linked. Content not verified.
61. Fix title. Delink previous.
62. Redundant: same basic source as [61].shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:28, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
63. Same as [54]. Combine.
    • a, b Peaked at no. 1 but can't see how many weeks. AMPROFON or equivalent source needed for charting.
64. Fix names.
    • a, f AMPROFON or equivalent source needed for charting.
    • b, c, d, e CAPIF (for Argentina), FIMI (for Italy), PROMUSICAE (for Spain); or equivalent source for charting.
65. Publisher? Fix title (replace hyphen with spaced en-dash), dates.
    • a, b AMPROFON or equivalent source needed for sales/shipments.
66. Use correct page no. (get rid of page=1800). Fix publisher to avoid redirect. Location? 2nd Edn? Content is actually in volume 10 (out of 12) which is called 1990–1999, this volume is written by Dale Anderson, with the chapter being 5: The Changing Face of America. Nomination supported but not category name.
67. Fix names, newspaper (& wL), publisher, dates. Category not named.
68. Del wrong page no. Add both authors. Location?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:57, 10 January 2012‎
69. Fix |title=Past Award Winners – 1995 – 15th Tejano Music Awards Winners – 'Quinceañera' |publisher=[[1995 Tejano Music Awards|Tejano Music Awards]] (Texas Talent Musicians Association) Note: year of award ceremony is 1995 not 1994, award for 'Album of the Year – Orchestra' won by Selena Y Los Dinos not Selena (reinforces need for some statement in Lead about her band's name), the related award wins for 'Female Vocalist of the Year', 'Female Entertainer of the Year', 'Single of the Year' and 'Song of the Year' can all be named here. At the '94 awards the group won for Selena Live. She won further posthumous awards in '96 but I can't see that they're related to Amor prohibido.
    • a There is no category for 'Record of the Year' at these awards: some years have 'Album of the Year – Overall' but not 1994 nor 1995.
    • b See above. Keep the Tejano Music Awards separate from the Lo Nuestro Awards to reduce confusion. So, sort out what awards were won in which year(s) and by which awarding group.
70. Fix pages, date, publisher, author (named on p. 97).
    • a Content verified.
    • b Name the author in main text: |[[Spin (magazine)|''Spin'']] magazine's Mark Schone said it was her "most interesting" album ahead of ''Dreaming of You'' and ''[[12 Super Exitos]]'' (1994). Content verified.
71. Fix dates, title (starts with Viva Selena!), publisher. Delink newspaper. a, b Content not verified.
72. Fix dates, page(s). Same as [92] except page no? Is it possible to get both pages displayed in one view? If not, use the url to page 1 and add a note to the ref to tell users how to access page 2/next. Also make sure all details are combined correctly and wL any first occasion terms.
    • a Verified.
    • b Verified on previous page. Reformat cited text content as a blockquote: its quite long.
73. Fix names, title, de-italics Allmusic, dates.
74. Same source as [26], just give correct additional page no. Make sure to combine information correctly. Content verified.
75. wL Rough Guides (firm), delink publisher. Fix page, location.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:37, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
76. Fix page no (del incorrect one), publisher is not italicised also add ([[Random House]]), location. a, b Content verified.
77. Publisher, dates.
78. Use cite video. Fix title, time (of event not total length of show), format. Del in English (its default). More information needed e.g. producer, name the critics who praise her choices. Content not verified.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:34, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
79. Delink newspaper. Format album in title. Add publisher. Any date? a, b Content not verified at this source. Is this the same review as at [http://www.amazon.com/Amor-Prohibido-Selena/dp/B000000VC2 Amazon]? If so the second quote at b is inaccurate and should be fixed.
80. Fix dates, delink journal & publisher.
    • a Quote verified.
    • b Is this from p. YE-17? If so, its from EMI Latin's advert and not written by Mayfield. In any case it seems repetitive.
81. Fix title, dates. Delink journal & publisher. Add |chapter=Latin Music Quarterly In main text add: , respectively before end of sentence. Content verified.
82. Fix dates, publisher. wL & reformat newspaper/magazine name. Content verified pre previous.
83. Same as [76]? Combine, apply fixes & give all page nos used. Content misrepresented in main text: see previous discussion above.
84. Use Template:Cite encyclopedia. Fix page nos (596–597), dates, publisher (avoid re-direct), location, volume, title, edition. Author of 'Selena' entry is Francîsco Crespo, editor of the encyclopedia is Kristine Helen Burns.
85. Fix dates, publisher. Previous sentence is a direct quote and so needs its own ref. Content not verified.
86. Similar problems to [85]. Delink newspaper. Content not supported.
87. Add (Grupa ITI) to publisher. Content verified (although my Polish is no better than my Spanish: I relied on Google translate).
88. Fix dates, publisher. Content not verified.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
89. Fix Publisher (see [15], but not wL here), date, location, page no. In main text, place quotes: had "Michael Jackson-like trills", Content verified.
90. Is this the same source here. If so check author: I can't find Clark there. Fix volume, delink names in title, add |([[Boydell & Brewer]]) to publisher, add series, location & isbn. Content verified at the url supplied above.
91. Fix names, title Girl in a Coma 'On the Record' About Their Influences, give date of article (correctly formatted), fix other date format. Content verified.
92. See [72]. Content verified.
93. Fix second author's names, page no, series, location. Content not verified.
94. Fix location,
95. Fix dates, page, wL newspaper, publisher? Content not verified: "she was beginning to sell in Puerto Rico" in the source is not same as current main text "the first time Puerto Ricans bought". Modify it to more accurately reflect the intent of the source.
96. Same article as at [57]? Combine, add page no., fix per previous comments. Major claims – about the two albums being top sellers – are not supported by source. Better source required for sales/shipments/charting.
97. Fix dates, newspaper (&wL), publisher. Content verified.
98. Fix dates, wl newspaper, publisher? Content not verified.
99. Same as [3]. Content not verified.
100. Fix date. Content verified, can be used elsewhere in article.
101. Same as [44], combine & fix per above. a, b Content verified.
More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:36, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Done Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Summary
• Nearly every individual ref has some problem with formatting. About 10% of them are duplicates and should be combined, another 10% are subscription required (try to avoid these) and nearly half of all refs cannot be checked on-line. Some of the on-line refs that are checkable show problems with the content not being supported. Some sources are used inappropriately, which is especially true for charting, sales/shipments, certification, awards, songwriters and producers. The article is contradictory/inconsistent about some of this information. A lot of work is required to straighten this out.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:41, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Final comments
1. Considerable further work is still required here. There are numerous dubious/contentious claims that are not currently verifiable or use inappropriate sources or contradict other sections of the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:47, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Criterion 3

3. Broad in its coverage:

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and

(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

Comprehensiveness
• Comprehensive in most areas, although the information was not arranged in the appropriate sections: some work has occurred to move parts around. More work on such re-arrangement is required.
Missing information:
1. The band's name should be included as an alternative name for the album's artist: there are enough sources that describe it as such and awards have been given under that name. Both the Lead and main text should be modified to reflect this.
2. Selena was murdered by Saldívar. This should be in the Lead and in main text. It explains why there are posthumous releases soon after this album and why there are high sales after her death.
3. Awards and nominations: the wikitable only has four. The article mentions more awards in relation to the album. Award years and titles of categories are confused. This needs to be resolved.
Unnecessary details
• As indicated above, there's far too much information in Recording and composition (R&c) and in Critical reception (Cr). Since seven singles have their own articles: so much of this material can be moved there and a far more condensed summary can be left here. Consider the current version here:
1. Severely condense the "Amor prohibido" single info at R&c. Reduce it to less than half its content.
2. Make some reduction in "Bidi bidi bom bom" and "Si una vez" portions.
3. At Cr, the latter two ¶s, appear more focused on individual singles or repeat similar ideas already expressed. Some of it can be retained if it is particularly different from other content.
4. As indicated earlier, both section have information which belongs elsewhere or should be removed as redundant.
5. At Personnel, aside from contradictions especially over producers and songwriters, there's no need for Managerial (also contains repetitious information).
Overall, more work needed to improve its Wikipedia:Summary style.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:41, 12 January 2012 (UTC) Final comments
1. Not sufficient progress here. There still remains too much information per single (which each have their own article). Contradictions still remain while important information is missing from the Lead and elsewhere.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:51, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Criterion 4

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
1. Generally neutral in tone, some further work on expression, verification of content and coverage per previous comments will help in this criterion.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Criterion 5

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
1. Generally stable, further changes per review comments above are expected.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:02, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Criterion 6

6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

(a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and

(b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

1. Infobox image is acceptable.
2. "Amor prohibido" sound sample is 20s but 10% of 2:49 is 16.9s. (See Wikipedia:Music samples#What is the maximum length permitted?) Reduction required. The file itself requires two NFUR templates, (see Template:Non-free use rationale). Check information regarding songwriters and producers.
3. "No me queda más" sound sample is 25s but 10% of 3:17 is 19.7s. Reduction required. The file itself requires two NFUR templates. Check information regarding songwriters and producers.
4. "Bidi bidi bom bom" sound sample is 30s but 10% of 3:25 is 20.5s. Reduction required. The file itself requires two NFUR templates. Check information regarding songwriters and producers.
This criterion requires further work.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:02, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I fixed these up myself, they should now be satisfactory.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:53, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Final decision

After allowing over a week for changes to be made, I am pleased to see some progress. Criteria 4, 5, and 6 are now acceptable. However problems remain with Criteria 1, 2, and 3. As detailed above there are considerable problems in these areas which need to be fixed before reaching GA and unfortunately, the article has failed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:59, 22 January 2012 (UTC) (tweaks)shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Caps

Just a quick note: The capitalization for foreign-language should be based on English-langauge sources like Allmusic per WP:CAPS. I don't know how the folks at WikiProject Album didn't see this. Erick (talk) 19:31, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Am I following them correctly? Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 18:21, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

The songs in the article following are Spanish caps. It should instead based on capitalization found on English-language like Allmusic. I got into trouble last year when I followed ALBUMCAPS. Erick (talk) 20:34, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Expression clean up

Jona has asked for additional feedback on this article. I will improve its expression and formatting but will not conduct nor pre-empt the second GAR.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:45, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I've worked on the Lead but following are still unclear:

1. Furthermore, she wanted to release a more musically diverse album, which she had commonly practice in her career, though Amor prohibido is believed by music critics to have showcased Selena's wide range of musical abilities.
2. Most of the songs became her signature marking,

Producers in infobox don't match those in 'Technical and production' subsection.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:40, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I've finished a quick run through of the expression, other problems may remain but I'm moving on. I hope it passes GA this time.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:44, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll start fixing thanks. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 20:18, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Copy edit comments

In copy editing, I see a couple of issues that need pointed out. I'll address more here, as they come up.

• ""Fotos y recuerdos" samples The Pretenders' chant-hook off their 1982 single "Back on the Chain Gang".[43] "

No. I looked up the reference, and it doesn't say "samples". "Sampling" refers specifically to digital sampling, which means that they would have played back the original recording, captured it in a sampler, and worked the resulting sample into their production. If producers, studio musicians or a band recreate a song or arrangement, this is not "sampling", any more than a pianist who plays a sonata is "sampling" the written music. The use of samples also requires legal clearance, and Hynde's lawyers are notably reluctant to give this, so don't say that it's a sample unless you have the reference to back that up. Dementia13 (talk) 16:25, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Followup: I changed this to "rewrite", because there's a much larger difference between the versions than a simple translation would account for. The song's central theme, as described here, is fundamentally different from the version by Pretenders (it's "Pretenders", not "The Pretenders", BTW), which was about the recent deaths of two bandmembers. The original version was angry and bitter, while Selena's version omits these elements and plays up its nostalgic and sentimental elements. Dementia13 (talk) 19:37, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 02:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

If you scrape up some references that describe the differences between the versions of the song, or if you just find some discussion of the original version and contrast that with the information you already have on Selena's, it would make a good addition to the article. Dementia13 (talk) 00:28, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

• " In Tucker Shaw's book The Hookup Artist, Shaw wrote that "Fotos y recuerdos" had used a "synth-violin" for its introduction."

You drop names a lot, and you shouldn't. When you draw attention to your references' names, you imply that the reader should know who they are, which in turn implies that they are subject experts. I haven't heard of Tucker Shaw, and for all I know, The Hookup Artist is a work of fiction, and that statement is untrue. It looks especially suspicious, as I discover that Tucker Shaw is apparently a food writer. Look: you've done the research work. If the source is good and the fact is verifiably correct, just state the fact and leave out the part about who said it, unless it's a direct quote. If the reader wants to know where that fact came from, they can look up your reference. Dementia13 (talk) 16:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Is there a guideline that prohibits name use to attribute their commentary reviews? I can't find any FA album articles that does as you say. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 02:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't believe that there is, other than the common-sense reasons that I gave. You ordinarily don't need to point out the names of the sources, because the reference takes care of that. It's not a set rule: there are situations when its a good idea, and you did so correctly in the example following: Dementia13 (talk) 00:28, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Here's an example of the correct way to include source authors' names:

"Sara M. Misemer and Walter Aaron Clark wrote in their book Secular saints: performing Frida Kahlo, Carlos Gardel, Eva Perón, and Selena, that "Techno Cumbia" reminded them of Guillermo Gómez-Peña's suggestion that "cultures are being superimposed", because of Selena's mixed genres that were influenced by music from Colombia and the Caribbean.[28]"

That's a more complex statement that includes opinion and a quote. In this case, "Who said so?" is important. Not so with the former, which may not even be notable. It doesn't refer to some special kind of violin, it talks about a violin preset that most synthesizers contain. If you have verifiable information about a specific patch from a specific synth, like "the Roland D-50 'solo violin' factory preset", that might be interesting. Dementia13 (talk) 16:46, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Follow-up: this is indeed a work of fiction. True though the fact may be, you can't use a fictional work as a reference in an encyclopedic article, unless you're writing about fiction. The statement may only have been a character's observation, and isn't bound to any standard of factual accuracy. Again, it may not be notable that it used a synthesized violin patch. Dementia13 (talk) 19:37, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

• "Quintanilla III further immersed the album in the Latin territory, sticking to mixing of the genres such as Latin pop, dance-pop, ballads, and a variety of Mexican music.[10][11][12]"

I can't make sense of that, and can't access the references. I'll delete it at the end of the copy edit, unless it's cleared up. Both halves of the sentence are ambiguous. Dementia13 (talk) 17:45, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

According to the magazine and what it's trying to say is that the songs is Latin music as with all her previous works in the music industry, however, she used a variety of Latin music such as those indicated above. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 02:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I made the sentence work by omitting the first half. It looks to me like it makes the point you were trying to. Dementia13 (talk) 00:28, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

• Credits and Personnel: do the liner notes specifically say that Quintalilla III played only bajo sexto, and no electric bass? Is this an oversight? Were the electric bass parts played by uncredited session musicians? Dementia13 (talk) 17:51, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not even sure where you got that information of him playing bass on the album. According to the album's liner notes he did not play bass. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 02:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Your list of personnel includes no bassist, other than QIII on bajo sexto, which I'm sure does not appear on every track. Either the bassist was left out of your list, or none was credited, which is possible. Session musicians often are not credited. Dementia13 (talk) 05:13, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

• Production and Development: "Domingo Padilla had filled in for Brian "Red" Moore for the duet."

Who is Moore, and what was his role to have been? Was he in Barrio Boyz? He's not named in their article. Dementia13 (talk) 17:55, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Never mind, I cut that part, because it wasn't related to this album. Dementia13 (talk) 20:50, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Clarification: that track may have been included on the re-release, but it wasn't part of the production of this album, which is where it was included. Dementia13 (talk) 00:31, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

• "Similar to previous albums, Selena established a diversity in her songs for Amor prohibido."

This needs explanation, because the previous section established that QIII's departures from the Tejano style were noteworthy enough to attract press attention. If her earlier albums were so "diverse", that would not be the case. Dementia13 (talk) 21:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Her earlier albums were all diverse, however, Quintanilla III only produced two Tejano songs on this album. He didn't necessarily "leave Tejano" but this album had more contemporary Latin music (Latin pop, ballads, etc) than her previous works where she used Mexican cumbia. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 02:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Now, that's clear. I might have cut that sentence, but you can put that information back in if you make it as clear as you just did. Dementia13 (talk) 00:28, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

• Under Structure and style, I combined some descriptions: "Hoffmann described "Fotos y Recuerdos" as a "hard-edge rock" [sic] song, "No Me Queda Más" as a "touchy ballad" [sic], and "Bidi Bidi Bom Bom" as a "reggae-inflected dance flare" [sic].[17] "

There's a [sic] after each description, because each contains a spelling or grammatical error, or an awkward phrasing. It's difficult to believe that these occurred in a published work, so I suspect that these are not really quotes, and that the errors were introduced when the original material was rephrased. Quotes must be exactly as they appeared, and you furthermore cannot use the quotes in a way that makes them appear to say something other than what they were intended to. For example, I removed from another section a quote that was claimed to describe this album, but turned out to be about the 12 Exitos album. Here, if the phrasing was changed, you need to remove the quotes and leave these statements as paraphrases. Omit the author's name, let the reference speak for itself. Dementia13 (talk) 19:48, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Followup: the above GAR reviewer provided a link to the Hoffmann reference. When you quote, be careful to copy it exactly, because there was an error introduced into every one of those descriptions. They're now fixed. Dementia13 (talk) 21:23, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 02:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Hey, it's what I do. Dementia13 (talk) 00:28, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

• I saw above, where a GAR reviewer had you change sentences from "(Something happened) in April 1994", to "In April 1994, (something happened)". I believe that to be bad advice, and here's why: readers want action. Start your sentences with action. There's no grammatical reason to place the date first, and there's a good stylistic reason not to: it delays getting to the point, and that annoys readers. This is not a list or a chronology, it's prose. Your sentence was not about April 1994, it was about something that happened. So put your subject right up front, and describe it afterward. Dementia13 (talk) 19:48, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice :) Best, Jona^{talk to me} 02:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

• Sheet music is cited as a reference in at least two places. Does the sheet music really say "harmonic hymn tunes" or "uptempo synthesizer"? I've used sheet music for nearly 40 years, including some years working with a prominent publisher, and I've never seen that kind of comment on a piece of sheet music. Not to mention, sheet music rarely has indications about the original instrumentation or the vocal arrangement. Dementia13 (talk) 20:02, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Nope, probably I added the source my accident. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 02:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Copy edit complete. Parts in question have been altered/deleted. Good luck with the upcoming review: you may still get some suggestions you'll need to comply with, but this was the main thing standing in your way. Dementia13 (talk) 00:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I have replied. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 02:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Again, good luck. This is a good subject, and I think you've treated it in a nice, comprehensive manner. Reviewers may still find things that need attention, but I don't think there are any drastic problems that would prevent this from passing its review, nothing that can't be fixed, anyway. Dementia13 (talk) 00:28, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Amor Prohibido/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: North8000 (talk · contribs) 23:31, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I took this because it is the oldest one where the review is not yet started. Possibly due to the size and complexity of the article and scope of the previous review.

After my first two reads, my first comment is that the lead is supposed to be a summary of what is in the article. My general impression was that this one is not, it is just like another section except with a broader scope. I spot checked a few content items from the lead and they were not covered in the article. Could you review this thoroughly with respect to that, and provide any changes, discussion or confirming discussion that ensure from that? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:31, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

After reading the article, I can't find instances where information found in the lead is not in the article body. Care to give examples of sentences in this lead that are not explained in the article? Best, Jona^{talk to me} 18:15, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. I somehow missed that you responded. I'll do that. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:35, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

I did some further checking and and now thinking mostly about the first paragraph of the lead. It's a nice "beginning of the story" paragraph, talking about the initial inception and her goals for the album, but there is no such introduction (or much of the material in the body of the first paragraph) in the body of the article. Probably just adding that as a section or a paragraph in the body of the article would do the trick. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:26, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

When working on this I also noticed a conflict. The lead (roughly) said that the idea for the album occurred after the launching of her boutiques; the body says that the launch of it was delayed by the launching of her boutiques. Could you fix? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:26, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

The image needs a fair use rationale for this article. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:00, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Conflicting re-release dates are given in the lead vs. the body (9/22/02 vs. 9/24/02) could you fix? North8000 (talk) 15:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Criteria / review

Well-written

Factually accurate and verifiable

Broad in its coverage

Passed. The scope of coverage is very comprehensive with respect to the topic. North8000 (talk) 18:53, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each

Passed. The coverage and wording is neutral. North8000 (talk) 18:55, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute

Passes. Article is stable. North8000 (talk) 14:04, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Illustrated, if possible, by images

Has one image. I think that this is enough to be OK. Awaiting rationale for this article. North8000 (talk) 14:02, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Non-pass

I'm non-passing this article. It looks like that with a little work it could pass, but there is nobody really involved enough to do it, and since it involves sources that I don't have, is beyond what I'd be ready to fix. The review has been open from October 31st through today (December 10th) (7 of those days the ball was sort of in my court) and I also pinged the nominator at their talk page to see if they were interested in that type of involvement. Other than one question asking me to further establish my earlier made point, there has been no activity or even response from anybody during that period. So no reflection on the article (other than it needs a little work) and no reflection on anybody, it's just the reality that the article does not, at the moment, have the active involvement that it will need to get to GA. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 11:42, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

References

References for future clean up

• Many fans and critics consider Amor Prohibido (1994) both Selena's best album and one of the best Tejano albums of the 1990s. It produced hit singles: the cumbia title track, reggae-flavored Bidi Bidi Bom Bom, mariachi bolero No Me Queda Mas