Talk:Video game controversies

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Organization

The current section on the scientific controversy seems to me rather long and tedious. Perhaps it would be better to separate the content by type of research, e.g. experimental studies, longitudinal nonexperimental studies, meta-analyses, public policy statements. This might be better than a blow-by-blow historical account of every study. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhilgard (talk • contribs) 16:34, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Reading this again, I think it would be helpful to trim some of the wordcount and allow the reader to pursue the details through their own reading of the cited sources. But I am not experienced in Wikipedia etiquette and am a little reluctant to start editing out other editors' writing. Jhilgard (talk) 16:07, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

"Gamergate controversy in 2013 and 2014"

[Historical-revisionist game of telephone intensifies], evermore. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 11:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Why didn't you correct this error? - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 11:45, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Because I told myself to never directly touch anything GG, and never did, and that's for 2 reasons: 1) I don't think I should as I was personally involved so shouldn't edit about basically myself, and 2) I've seen anti-GG editors who don't have such scruples regarding POV editing actively work to ban their enemies to keep their stranglehold on the narrative and I've had enough problems. Btw, it will be easy for you to find the so-called "reliable sources" stating that GG did happen in 2013, because the mass media lies about it are often very confused and contradicting each other in all kinds of ways. For some examples of "GG in 2013": [1][2][3] (one of these being AP no less, and to quote the top comment from one them: "Some-one should go edit wikipedia to state Gamergate started in 2013 and cite the Vice article as proof."). --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 12:06, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

I would argue that making wild accusations of impropriety and engaging in conspiracy theories that people are 'out to get' GamerGaters is just as involving as editing the article. You really should step back from the subject if you have so much issue discussing it civilly. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 19:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

GG absolutely started in 2013 (August), but it did continue through at least a good year if not more from them. --Masem (t) 19:11, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

This is confusing, because I distinctly remember it starting August 2014. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 19:14, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Shoot yes, got my years mixed up. The instigating post was August 2014. That said, events leading to that were queuing up in the year prior (eg a game jam central to the issue was in 2013, IIRC). --Masem (t) 19:19, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

I would agree that it has history dating before August 2014, such as the Game Jam and Feminist Frequency. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 19:27, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

The hashtag didn't exist before the exact day of August 27, 2014, you guys. "Conspiracy theories" - Masem can attest, as he was victimized even as he's anti, for just trying to be a neutral even a little bit. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 19:42, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

No, it didn't exist that day - we know the tag came from Adam Baldwin (at least as we can RS) within a couple weeks after 20+ sites posted their "gamers don't matter" articles. Mind you, there was a HECK of a lot of telephone-gaming that happend with GG, and I won't pretend at the end of the day, a certain narrative on GG "won" because it came from RSes, but unfortunately, we can't do anything about that on WP until we have RSes to counter the narrative. --Masem (t) 19:52, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Eaxactly August 27, yo: https://spectator.org/63898_happy-anniversary-gamergate-love-adam-baldwin/ I honestly have no idea what "a game jam central" could be about, that Chelsea VV thing was supposed to be "Rebel Jam" (which still "is coming", I guess, just like that Tingle game). The narrative was created by Wikipedia editors and is repeated after Wikipedia, complete with the widespread use of Wikipedia's exact phrase "Gamergate controvesy", and the "reliable sources" routinely linking to Wikiedia. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 19:55, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Can you demonstrate any further factual inaccuracies? Your user talk page may be an acceptable place for you, a GamerGater, to talk about conspiracy theories, but this is not. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 20:10, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

As I told you, Masem right here was a victim of a conspiracy fact. You're free to ask him to tell you in his own words about the treatment that he got for just trying to be neutral and factual and for not being hysterical in his approach. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 20:17, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

I don't care about the personal opinions of the editors. Find sources, and please stop trying to implement your POV. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 20:18, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Uhhhh, no. WP did not create the narrative, but it did help to propagate a specific narrative due to our reliance on RSes. Eg WP:Citogenesis at play - we created an article that reflected the average of what most gaming RSes had about the situation (which was against the movement), and then mainstream sources started pulling from WP to continue that. Its a cycle that exists not only on GG but lots of other topics. But one we cannot correct. Now, that said, if we have sources that are RS that are claiming GG started in 2013 rather than 2014, that's something we can use logic and common sense to say "2014". --Masem (t) 21:19, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Masem might give you a plenty of evidence, you know, also of being openly hounded outside Wikipedia by Wikipedia users. As for "sources", I gave you already a sample of 3 as for the GG in 2013 time-travel claims, could find you all kinds of absurd claims from "reliable sources", and show you how they contradict even each other despite all being either influenced by or based on Wikipedia. That narrative was created in particular by one user, a former admin named Ryulong. Despite that fact he was banned already in November 2014 (for paid editing), his edits still constitute 18.4% of all edits anyone (which means over 500 people) ever did on this article: [4] (Masem being #3 on the list, but in 3 years before he was forced out eventually, not in 2 months and 1 week, during which time it did matter most). So, it's why I never edit anything GG (that and I shouldn't anyway, per both rules regarding that and my own moral standards). You asked me, I answered you, and now you know. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 20:53, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and one user banned for harassing Masem off-wiki had this to say afterwards, which I really recommend you to read by their own words: https://archive.is/r3nK2 (his personal edits on the article constituted additional 1.9%, not counting these he did socking "all the time" as he so proudly admitted there). But that's really all about my "theories" which you inquired of. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 21:14, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Why is any of this important? It's quite unfortunate that someone behaved poorly towards Masem, much as it is unfortunate my history of abusive behavior from people who identify as GamerGate towards my friends and I. It is, ultimately, not important to the contents of this article. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 00:32, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Bryn, since this article is about video game controversies and refers to the wide range of debates on the social effects of video games on players and broader society shouldn't there be some mention about the controversies encountered right here on Wikipedia? RS have reported on it: The Guardian, Slate, The Verge <--(I'm not sure where or if it ranks as a RS), Social Text Journal, AAAI.org, and so on. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 01:44, 11 June 2019 (UTC)