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:{{not done}}. Reliable sources identify Wright as Black, therefore so do we. [[User:WWGB|WWGB]] ([[User talk:WWGB|talk]]) 11:32, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
:{{not done}}. Reliable sources identify Wright as Black, therefore so do we. [[User:WWGB|WWGB]] ([[User talk:WWGB|talk]]) 11:32, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

::If you are half-black, you are black. That's the Obama rule.

Revision as of 15:11, 17 April 2021

Killing?

Why is this marked as a killing? Obviously the police officer was negligent but Wright resisted arrest, the police officer didn't intend on killing him nor did she shoot him for no reason.

~~Omir Laa~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omir Laa (talk • contribs) 06:34, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think you've already answered your own question by the way you worded it. The officer may not have intended to kill him, but she did kill him, hence it is a "killing". A medical examiner determined the manner of death to be homicide. [1] Mz7 (talk) 07:09, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Killing is a pretty neutral word, far more neutral than murder. Clearly Wright was killed. The word means only a death caused by another person, which is inarguably an accurate representation of the facts here. Moncrief (talk) 16:41, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Most discussion on this topic interchanges the concepts of being “killed” and “the killing of” as the same thing. But they are different. It would seem “the killing of” implies much more in terms of intent or culpability, than being "killed". As a thought experiment to highlight this, if I title an article/webpage/blog “the killing of the cat”, my family would surely initially conclude “what the hell have you done?!” and likely assume I purposefully killed the cat (or wanted the cat killed). As opposed to using the other less implicating versions like “the cat was killed” or “the death of the cat”. Additionally, most dictionaries include further qualifications in their definitions of “killing” with things like “especially deliberately”, “the act of” , “causing”, “caused by”, etc., all seeming to imply more than is warranted before a thorough determination is made in a legal proceeding. Wikipedian’s first instincts with the myriad of other similar articles titled “the death of” seems more objective and correct than this latest trend of implying intent in the title. Even when it might seem obvious. Digihoe (talk) 22:03, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Page for Daunte Wright

How long should we with before creating a page for Daunte Wright that isn't a redirect to this article? In George Floyd's case, it was about two weeks or so. The consensus was that he was notable for more than just his death. Comm260 ncu (talk) 17:04, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Until there is a point where sources indicate that he is notable more than just his death which may or may not happen. Probably a split discussion on this talk page can determine a consensus before a new page is created. Maybe can start that discussion in a week or so if editors feel it should be considered. WikiVirusC(talk) 17:09, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
DW is nowhere near important enough for that. GF posthumously has millions of fans who, though they hadn't known or even heard of him during his lifetime, demonstrated (& in some cases rioted) across the world in his name. He has places named after him. Jim Michael (talk) 09:58, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We do not need an article for every person killed by police. This has nowhere near the impact that Floyd’s death did. Wikipedia is not a memorial service. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 00:47, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you think it should exist now, WP:BEBOLD. Other editors may take it to WP:AFD, though. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 23:32, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Race of victim

I can't believe I even need to make this section, but here are the RS for calling Wright "Black", including the medical examiner's report:

EvergreenFir (talk) 19:50, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Media outlets or government authority (medical examiner) calling Mr. Wright "Black", does not make it accurate and/or factually correct. Douggmc (talk) 19:56, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds as though people are questioning why he is called Black when his father is Black and his mother is either biracial, white or Native or Hispanic. Although images of her lead some to say she is of European ancestry, has anything been published about her ethnic or racial background? She could also be biracial and identify as Black or she could be Native—images don't give the entire picture here. Regardless, EvergreenFir's links do good, and I do think it is important allow biracial people the ability to self identify with their preference (as a fictional/cultural reference, see "The Vanishing Half"). Douggmc, if Daunte did prefer to be identified as "biracial" or "white" it is likely that the family would be referring to him as such in news interviews. If they do, the article can be adapted. Comm260 ncu (talk) 20:00, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"..important to allow biracial people .. to self identify". Who are you to say he is biracial? Do you know his ethnic makeup? The reference to it in this wiki should either be NOT made at all or accurately made. He is "a man" or a "mixed-race" man. I think you all need to step back and realize that there is a thing as being too woke. 104.52.83.1 (talk) 20:33, 13 April 2021 (UTC) <--- edit by me, just wasn't logged in Douggmc (talk) 20:34, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Personal assessments or opinions on media's erasure of bi racial folks amount to WP:OR. We can change the category iff RS issue a correction or begin changing their terminology. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:13, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Use accurate terminology, or don't use it at all. Douggmc (talk) 20:22, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia relies on reliable sources. You're relying on your own opinion of what's accurate. Moncrief (talk) 20:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I hear you and understand the argument. I'm saying "reliable sources" are subjective ... and absent FACT, the default should be no reference to race at all. I'll stop comment for now, it has run its course from standpoint. Shameful inaccurate edits remain without consensus. Douggmc (talk) 20:38, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see any way to adequately discuss this story without mentioning race, since racial overtones are integral to the reaction to Wright's death. Editors are not meant to decide whether widely reported information across all RS are overly "subjective" or not. Thank you for understanding. Moncrief (talk) 21:26, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I know I said I'd stop debating on this topic, but I can't let this slide. " .. since racial overtones are integral to the REACTION to Wright's death". You've proved my point. REACTION to the death is a different subject matter than the incident itself and there is no indication that race or "racial overtones" had anything to do with it. Douggmc (talk) 21:52, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We aren't the judge nor the jury. It is so not within our scope to figure out what caused the incident beyond what's reported in RS. Our purpose is to describe the full series of events neutrally, relying on RS. This article doesn't say that Wright's race caused the officer to act the way she did -- obviously only she knows whether or not it had any bearing -- but Wright's race is relevant because (a) it's mentioned in all RS; (b) it's relevant to the overall scope of events described in this article, which indeed include the various reactions to his death, and the aftermath/unrest. Moncrief (talk) 22:08, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As a former white kid raised by red mothers, I go by a colour wheel, and he looks blacker than red, white or yellow to me (RS guidance notwithstanding). InedibleHulk (talk) 20:42, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
InedibleHulk, I dunno, his skin tone is a bit lighter than my own, and I'm mixed myself, so I definitely wouldn't be surprised if he were half white.
And, to chime in on this discussion as a whole, (directed at everyone) our wide range of opinions, while quite beneficial to the project, are irrelevant when every reliable source refutes them. Thanks, EDG 543 (message me) 21:25, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I will, of course, defer to RS. If shades of grey are said to exist, so be it here. But on the Algonquin colour wheel, just FYI, there are no gradients, degrees or half-steps; four races, like four directions and four sacred medicines. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:40, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
InedibleHulk, very interesting; I didn't know that. Learn something new every day, I suppose. Thanks, EDG 543 (message me) 00:37, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome. To be clear, these are not rigid unbreakable laws or anything. I'm not a fundamentalist, and am actually OK with mulattos, Metis or whatever you get when you cross an Arab and a Latina, as people and concepts. As an example of how open to different labels, manifestations and interpretations this overall belief system can be, see Wikipedia's article entitled Medicine wheel. The core spirit is immutably strong and perseverant, but can adapt to pretty much anything. Jeet Kune Do students might recognize this base element as "water". Long story short, if you're black and white, facing north and west, or take aspirin and ibuprofen for headaches, I totally get how you're certainly not wrong. Context is key, in any decision, not merely intuition, tradition or superstition. Peace! InedibleHulk (talk) 01:18, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
These might be useful links for you to peruse: WP:NOTESSAY, WP:NOTOPINION, WP:VERIFY, and WP:RS. Moncrief (talk) 00:23, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Phone call

In the phone call section, due to its wording and omission of information, it gives a biased and not factual opinion. We should include that he was not pulled over for an air freshener. He was stopped for expired plates, and officers responding soon realized who he was because a warrant was issued for his arrest after he missed a court appearance for aggravated robbery. Sqorg (talk) 11:36, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kim or Kimberly Potter

Correct name according to various outlets:

--78.54.164.58 (talk) 12:08, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Read hypocorism. WWGB (talk) 12:13, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Read MOS:HYPOCORISM. 78.54.164.58 (talk) 12:28, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Biblib: Thank you! [2] :-) --78.54.164.58 (talk) 18:02, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2021

Daunte Wright was shot after he tried to flee the crime. The officer mistook a taser for a gun and discharged a single shot after Mr.Wright was already attempting to flee the scene. 2600:8800:6A07:8500:8055:D1B8:5C9D:9A41 (talk) 14:10, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 14:19, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article currently reads "After being shot, Wright attempted to flee but crashed his vehicle into another and hit a cement barrier. He was pronounced dead at the scene.[6]" He was shot AFTER attempting to flee. It's backwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jobylewisii (talk • contribs) 19:06, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reworded it to: After a brief struggle with officers, Wright was shot, and then attempted to flee but... What he was doing is speculative, but source report there was a struggle with officers, it didn't indicate that the struggle was him trying to flee or not. It doesn't say he actually fled until after he was shot. WikiVirusC(talk) 21:53, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wright's Race

Wright's mother is White. Isn't it more accurate to describe him as biracial that as African-American or Black? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8807:30C:1B00:40AD:7043:1E69:CB40 (talk) 14:28, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Would you object to me moving your comment up to join the ongoing discussion about race in the section above? It's this one. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 14:32, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Edited to add: I read your question again -- and, no, it's not appropriate for us to make edits that aren't consistent with WP:RS. My original comment --> I don't see any issue with mentioning his mother is White, as long as you cite a reliable source. RS describe Wright himself as Black, so I wouldn't change that, but if RS consider it relevant that his mom is White and you actually add a cite, then add it to the article. If you get pushback after adding it properly with a cite, discuss it then. Moncrief (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Copyedit of Traffic stop section

@Linguist111: I've reverted two of your edits to the "Traffic stop" section that you used a "ce" edit summary with because they seem to have actually removed a nontrivial amount of detail from the article without sufficient explanation. In the most recent edit, the line that said At the time of the shooting, Potter was field training another officer. was inexplicably removed, as well as the line Potter was holding the firearm for at least seven seconds before discharging it. Additionally, the line that said, Wright struggled with the officers, broke free, and got back behind the wheel of his vehicle. Potter said, "I'll tase you", and then yelled, "Taser! Taser! Taser!" was changed to Wright resisted arrest, broke free from the arresting officer's grasp, and sat back down in the car. Potter took out her firearm, warned Wright that she would tase him, pointed it at him as she shouted "Taser! Taser! Taser!", and shot him. "Resisting arrest" is a rather vague term that may imply a specific criminal charge, so I feel that the former wording was better from a copyediting standpoint. Additionally, I'm not sure why it's better to paraphrase the quote "I'll tase you". Mz7 (talk) 19:13, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To add to this, there are a number of other issues with the copyedit as well. The first paragraph was edited to say that Potter and two other Brooklyn Center police officers pulled over Wright, .... However, it is not clear from the sources whether Potter and two other officers initiated the traffic stop from the very beginning, or whether it was just one or two of the two officers that initiated the stop, and then another later joined the traffic stop as backup. Also, it's not clear from the sources what the timing of when Potter drew her weapon was—before or after "I'll tase you"—the copyedit seems to imply that it was before. Mz7 (talk) 19:50, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Correct grammar in Mr. Wright's bio

The sentence "He was a father a young child" is ungrammatical. It could be rewritten as "He was the father of a young child." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahenke (talk • contribs) 22:44, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Already done Looks like you were able to make this edit yourself. [3] Mz7 (talk) 23:45, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 15 April 2021

This is a law suit waiting to happen. This is inaccurate and inappropriate to have a Wikipedia page already when people are still trying to unravel the truth. The legitimacy of that warrant is hugely under question, as well as various other details. I’ve donated money to you guys before, if you don’t fix this I won’t ever donate to you again. Because I don’t want my money wasted on bias non fact based opinions by right wing media. I’m also not donating for you guys to deal with legal battles. Ridiculous. 2604:3D09:697E:9A70:1D8D:251C:7D87:3198 (talk) 01:46, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:47, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Who is "you guys"? You know we're all volunteers, right? No one editing here is receiving any of your donations. Moncrief (talk) 04:38, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Confusion regarding the arrest warrants

This article is a little confusing at the moment regarding which specific arrest warrant the officers were executing during the incident. The "Participants" section notes that Wright had a misdemeanor warrant, citing this Snopes article, while the lead states that the incident was an attempted arrest for outstanding felony warrants, and the "Traffic stop" section states Officers ran Wright's name through a police database and learned that he had an open arrest warrant stemming from pending charges for first-degree felony aggravated robbery with a firearm. The latter felony warrant information cites this Fox News article, which merely states that Wright had an arrest warrant "related to an aggravated armed robbery attempt" (the article does not explicitly mention this is a felony). The Fox News article goes on to clarify that "Police then tried to arrest him on an outstanding warrant after failing to appear in court on charges that he fled from officers and possessed a gun without a permit during an encounter with Minneapolis police in June". It is therefore not clear to me whether the police officers arresting Wright were even aware of the felony arrest warrant at the time. I'm going to edit the article shortly to make this clear. The current lead wording is also problematic even if the officers knew about the felony warrant, because it implies multiple felony warrants. Mz7 (talk) 07:05, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I submitted this edit to help clarify things. I'm aware that in doing so I removed all mention of the aggravated robbery charge—I was hesitant to add it back, e.g. in the "Participants" section, because I also found this conflicting Snopes fact check which states that "No evidence showed Wright was 'on the run' and attempting to evade law enforcement in the days, weeks, or months before his death." It is getting late in the night for me, so I'll leave this to another editor to sort out. Mz7 (talk) 07:28, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

thanks @Mz7:. The article seems to be in better shape now. I think there has indeed been a fair amount of confusion recently about the precise nature of the warrant that prompted the arrest attempt. In addition to the clarifying Snopes article you mentioned, another helpful explication, posted yesterday, is at https://www.insider.com/daunte-wright-details-of-charges-warrants-before-killed-by-police-2021-4 Biblib (talk) 20:40, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not certain we should be whitewashing the article to portray Daunte Wright as some poor innocent victim of excessive police force by censoring his criminal past. This person was known for committing violent felonies (1st degree aggravated robbery) and the article should reflect that and I concede that we should also follow WP:BDP as far as what we can write about. The similarity between these person and George Floyd is quite amazing. In this case as in Floyd's case, both individuals had extensive criminal records for violent felonies and behavior. We don't really know from the sources and articles if the police were aware of the felony charges against him, but it's pretty obvious that most modern police have access to the nationwide warrant system online, and it's highly likely his pending cases and a standing bench warrant were available to the officers. It's pretty simple if you resist police officers making an arrest, then get into your vehicle and flee there is a possibility they may just shoot you. A car can be used as a dangerous weapon and police need to control that kind of situation. I agree with @Mz7: that information about the police stop and arrest needs to rigorously follow sources, but I think we can also write about his pending charges for aggravated robbery and the underlying facts. Wikipedia should not be a platform for suppressing unflattering content that is relevant to the matter and the article. For the article to be complete and accurate we should include all relevant and notable information from the sources. I don't think we should participate in painting Daunte Wright as some poor innocent black person who was the victim of racial profiling. It's clear from the record this individual was a violent felon who resisted arrest then jumped into a speeding car and tried to escape the officers. Octoberwoodland (talk) 22:33, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and been bold and added the content to the section dedicated to Daunte Wright. Octoberwoodland (talk) 00:13, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Octoberwoodland: you raise some points that are interesting and over which reasonable people could disagree. I'm troubled though by the multiple misstatements of fact and speculation that ground much of your statement above. First, two quick factual points, at least as far as I understand what's been reported so far: regarding your last assertion ("it's clear from the record..."), Wright got into a *stationary* car -- it was not in motion, much less speeding. This *may* be a relatively minor point, but I hope you will agree that while precision is always important on Wikipedia, that is never more true than in articles about contentious, rapidly-evolving issues with national implications. Second, you repeatedly refer to Wright as a violent felon, or having committed violent felonies. From what I understand of the late-2019 incident in his past, the allegation of aggravated robbery is indeed a serious one -- but *emphasis* on the *allegation* part. You seem to be attuned to legal and/or law enforcement matters, and so I urge you to remember that Wright, just like any other person in the United States, enjoys the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise. Lastly, I hope you'll also agree that however it's sliced, what happened was a tragedy for all concerned, and everyone is trying to understand how on earth it happened. Since only selected fragments of information have emerged publicly so far, there's still a lot we don't know, and it's important to resist the (natural) urge to speculate. Specifically, you reasonably speculate that during the traffic stop Potter and her then colleagues *may* have been aware of the felony charges against Wright -- but we don't know that, and in the absence of that information it's not reasonable to make conclusions about Potter's behavior based on that speculation. Biblib (talk) 02:25, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:BLPCRIME does not apply to dead people. See WP:BDP. Also, Wikipedia is not a criminal court, it does not adjudicate cases, there is no "right" to due process on Wikipedia, we just report what reliable sources state based on relevance and accuracy of content and Wikipedia policies. Reliable sources (several) discuss the charges against him. I state in the section the charges are "alleged". The article and sources state Wright got into his car and sped away -- the car was not motionless. It's very hard for a police officer to know for certain what to do in a situation like the one described in the article, and hindsight is always 20/20. They were dealing with a suspect wanted on firearms violations, bail violations, and outstanding felony charges (sources or not, the NCIC is available to all police -- they knew he had charges pending). Also Wikipedia is not to be used as a memorial for Daunte Wright to promote "Black Lives Matter" riots and protests, or any other political or social movement, or foster any bias for or against the police. I do agree that it's tragic that a 20 year old man died because 1) He liked to play with guns 2) he failed to comply with the laws regarding guns 3) He resisted police then evaded them (twice based on the sources, he was previously wanted for illegal firearms possession for an previous incident where he fled and successfully evaded the police) 4) He allegedly robbed a woman after assaulting and choking her. It is sad when someone loses their life but this person did it to themselves. It's never good idea to resist police then flee. None of what I typed here is "speculation" it's all based on the sources in that article. I suggest you read through these sources. Octoberwoodland (talk) 02:53, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
BLPCRIME does indeed apply to recently dead people. Alleged crimes are tangentially related to the topic of this article; remember this is not a biography page. Do not use this talk page to tell us your opinion on "why he died" beyond what RS say happened about his killing. Don't try to paint the victim as a "bad person" (or an angel for that matter). EvergreenFir (talk) 19:35, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Obama

The statement from Obama is repeated ~2 sentences after it is initially stated. The article should pick one place and cover it there; since Obama is no longer an official, I'd suggest the statement in the celebrities and public figures section be retained.71.32.136.237 (talk) 16:12, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the first instance and left the one in the Celebrities and Public Figures section. Doctormatt (talk) 19:01, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm here because of the google search I made. When I googled the killing of Daunte Wright, I noticed that Google infobox contained details the infobox refrenced in this Wikipedia article instead of the head information. Whoa, Holy Smokes. Xfhxzf (talk) April 15, 2021, 19:55 (MST)

I noticed that too when I searched the article. May have something to do with the headers in the page source. I will review the page and try to correct it. Octoberwoodland (talk) 02:20, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation of Daunte's name?

Given this page is going to end up pretty high on search engines when people look for information on Daunte Wright, could we include a pronunciation for his name? It's not exactly intuitive if you haven't heard it spoken out loud. 2A02:C7F:6C58:7A00:25A5:B4FC:A322:5169 (talk) 13:13, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2021

Daunte is bi-racial and to discount his white heritage is not only irresponsible but reprehensible. I believe the mis representation of his proper heritage is an attempt to stoke racial hatred. Do better be better 70.21.183.78 (talk) 11:29, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. Reliable sources identify Wright as Black, therefore so do we. WWGB (talk) 11:32, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you are half-black, you are black. That's the Obama rule.
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