User talk:FormalDude

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Stranger things

Following MollyPollyRolly's SPI and realising that I wasn't the only one who thinks that there is something suspicious about that account, I kept an eye on their edits until I discovered that they were in fact caught socking, but were later unblocked and asked to disclose on their user pages that they operate both of accounts. Not only they didn't disclose the accounts, but they are editing the same articles[1][2][3] with both accounts (MollyPollyRolly and Filmomusico). I hope you won't mind if I ping Bbb23 since they have expressed some concerns regarding the account's activity. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 22:12, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for looking out, @M.Bitton, very diligent of you. ––FormalDude talk 22:31, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

This was handled by Oshwah. It would seem best for him to follow up to determine if any action is needed.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:13, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Oshwah, shouldn't this user have declared their operations of multiple accounts on their userpages? ––FormalDude talk 22:15, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Jacky Liew (Si Gongzi)

Hi, I would like to ask that why the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jacky_Liew_(Si_Gongzi) need more for reliable resource. The biography also proven by the newspapers and books but it is in Chinese version. May you tell you what other things or which part of references need more sources or any thing that should improve to make the page done? Arrisontan (talk) 06:32, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Arrisontan!

The main part that needs more sources is the Life section. It names eight magazines that the subject supposedly worked for, but there are only two sources for the entire section. See WP:VERIFY. ––FormalDude talk 06:49, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply, if then, can I just add the reference like update the columns that the writer wrote to archive and cite back to the page, or i just removed? Furthermore, the eight magazines has been written in the reference 1 and 5 to prove that he had been wrote for these magazines, it still not enough right? Arrisontan (talk) 06:55, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

If he has written for all of those magazine it should be easy to get a source for each one, shouldn't it? ––FormalDude talk 07:12, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, so now it is allowed me to get a copy from the magazine's column and upload it to the archive and cite it right? Any other i need to improve? Arrisontan (talk) 07:16, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

That would be the main thing to improve. The article needs some general copy editing as well. ––FormalDude talk 07:26, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much, i am editing to it right now. Perhaps later may you help me to check for the work? Arrisontan (talk) 07:32, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Absolutely. Feel free to leave me a message when you resubmit the article, or if you want me to double check your work before. ––FormalDude talk 07:34, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

I really appreciate that. Arrisontan (talk) 07:39, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I have done the references, may you double check for my works? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jacky_Liew_(Si_Gongzi) Arrisontan (talk) 08:29, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Arrisontan: Great, it looks much better! I did some formatting of the sources and other copyediting to make sure it follows the manual of style.

Now, is the pen name "Si Gongzi" or "Shi Gongzi"? The title says the former, the lead says the latter. ––FormalDude talk 09:16, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Great!!! Thank you for you so much. It should be the shigongzi but sometimes people write about sigongzi. if need to do the amendment, how to do it? So can i resubmit it for you to get it approve? Arrisontan (talk) 09:35, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

I've resubmitted the article for you but I'm still reviewing it. My main concern now is that it may not meet notability guidelines, specifically WP:WRITER. ––FormalDude talk 09:49, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

The notability is that can be proven by the his books found in some national library and also the universities library?Arrisontan (talk) 10:20, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Criteria four of WP:WRITER says The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument, (b) been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) won significant critical attention, or (d) been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums. So being featured in a national library or university library would likely not count, unless it was somehow also a part of one of those four criteria. ––FormalDude talk 10:24, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

how about if he had been discussed in a master thesis? Arrisontan (talk) 10:27, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, the criteria is pretty specific. It either has to meet WP:GNG or WP:WRITER. The easiest way to do that is through significant coverage in reliable sources. I do not see any secondary sources much less any significant coverage in them. Being discussed in a master thesis would count as one source, but that does not inherently give notability, it only makes it somewhat stronger. At least two, preferably three significant reliable secondary sources are typically needed to pass WP:GNG. ––FormalDude talk 10:32, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

if there is some newspapers that reported about him but in paper version, so i need to update to archive, is that proves notability? Arrisontan (talk) 10:41, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Furthermore, the criteria is different with the Chinese version of notability right, as the person has in the Chinese wikipedia. Arrisontan (talk) 10:42, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

sorry, i need to mention that there was a book at reference 15 has covered up all of the information of the wiki content, it is the book recorded down celebrities in Chinese society of Malaysia, the archive uploaded one of the page related about Jacky liew only, as the other pages is the others famous person. Is it enough for the significant coverage? Arrisontan (talk) 10:56, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

I have added for references 2 and 3 which the reference 2 talks about he is a food critic and the reference 3 talks is a short interview about Jacky. Arrisontan (talk) 11:38, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Arrisontan are you sure that reference 3 is independent coverage? From my slightly limited Chinese ability, the source looks like a announcement that he got hired by the newspaper that is the source, if the newspaper and the subject are connected it is probably not considered independent coverage (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here).

Reference 15's reliability looks questionable to me, the author listed is "黄福安" on internet archive, which I really can't find anywhere else on the internet. What two sources seem the strongest to you in the article? Justiyaya 12:58, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Justiyaya: 黄福安 i think you can found that, he belongs to Malaysia Chinese Association which a parties in Malaysia and in charge the Chinese affairs in Malaysia. He is the editor of the book. But he is dead. https://www.google.com/search?q=%E9%BB%84%E7%A6%8F%E5%AE%89&sxsrf=AOaemvKaSu-HwuOlcYtbTsomflb8T6c36A:1631110801189&ei=kcY4YZvtCuzF4-EP5fC10Ak&start=20&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwjb-ZKfye_yAhXs4jgGHWV4DZoQ8tMDegQIARA9&biw=1920&bih=969 Arrisontan (talk) 14:23, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Oh thanks, I really can't find anything using my preferred search engine, guess google is just better sometimes.

Anyways, what do you think is your two strongest sources?

(Btw use {{re|Justiyaya}} to ping, and also pings only go through if you sign the edit containing the ping, pinging but signing in a different edit will not work) Justiyaya 14:50, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Justiyaya: Currently, the two strongest sources will be 黄福安 in reference 16 and the reference 2,3,4 which are three different newspapers reported him as the food critic Malaysia, is that enough? I think that those should can regard as the secondary sources and idependent and also covered up the wiki-content to establish he is a food critic in Malaysia. Arrisontan (talk) 15:05, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Arrisontan My personal analysis of the sources:

• 南洋商报 (Nanyang Siang Pau)

The source basically contains what is essentially an announcement that the subject got hired by the newspaper, likely not independent

• 中国报 (China Press)

Mentions name once, in one minor paragraph, I don't think this is significant coverage.

• sin chew daily

I only saw the subject mentioned once while skimming through it, I don't think this is significant coverage...

Anyways, personally, I would think that it would be best if you added two more reliable sources in order to ensure the article meets GNG. Feel free, if you think any of my analysis is incorrect, to respond to this message telling me to take another look at any of the sources, thanks. Justiyaya 23:52, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Justiyaya's comment. ––FormalDude talk 23:56, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Justiyaya:@FormalDude:Thank you for your reviews, really appreciate it. However, the content only focus on his identity as the writer and food critic only and no other informations reveals, so i thought that the reported from the newspapers written that he is the food critic malaysia would be enough for it. Writer can be proven by all of the columns things. It is rare for Malaysia to archive their newspapers so will be hard to get his information and he himself seems does not accept interviews much. But I would attach here what currently I found,

• 东方日报 (Oriental Daily News)
• Coco 大马站:大馬食神食公子 廖城蘭 你認識他嗎 (archive of a website in 2017)
• 365道名厨家常菜美食大众口味 One day one dish: 365 selected home-cooked recipes (A book that collected well-known celebrity chefs' recipes in Malaysia, Taiwan and Singapore written his introduction on page9)
• Food Digest Magazine I think I need to corrected that this is reported about him but not his column.

Kindly review for me. Thank you very much!!! Arrisontan (talk) 01:30, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@Arrisontan: At this point we're not really trying to verify anything specifically about him, we are trying to see if he is notable by Wikipedia's standard. Does the subject see significant and independent coverage in existing reliable sources? ––FormalDude talk 01:52, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@FormalDude: Yes dear. I think that for the latest 4 references and also the 黄福安 book is independent and significant coverage and also reliable for him. You may also sees that if searching for internet he has widely talked by the people, but most of them are the blogger so i did not cite it 廖城兰 and 食公子. Arrisontan (talk) 01:56, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@FormalDude: Another updates, This is his most recent news, I got it from China, http://talk.cri.cn/n/20210924/1a5d4084-42fe-8eb4-61b8-2b117359bf20.html from China Radio International— Preceding unsigned comment added by Arrisontan (talk • contribs)

@Arrisontan: Thanks for the update, please be patient with the review, it might take a while, also I would strongly suggest some copyediting Justiyaya 18:55, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

@Justiyaya:Thanks, I will do it. Arrisontan (talk) 19:27, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Pauline_Curnier_Jardin

Dear FormalDude, could you specify which types of sources in my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Pauline_Curnier_Jardin are not reliable? In the filmography section for example, I have added links to instututional websites that proof the existence and publicity of each of Curnier Jardin's films. What could I do more? Many thanks for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Artgreenpink22 (talk • contribs) 11:43, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

@Artgreenpink22 I added some additional feedback to the article. ––FormalDude talk 17:21, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Checking in

Hello, FormalDude. Hope all is well with you. As you might have noticed, shortly after you and I had discussed the possibility of my being the primary author on revised notability guidelines for the Church and for the policies about Wikipedia articles related thereunto. In between continuing to recuperate from my surgery, there are other personal circumstances I've been dealing with (nothing too concerning or out of the ordinary) that have to varying degrees limited my ability to be active here on Wikipedia. That being said, as I'm sure you saw, I have been able to exchange comments with Rachel Helps (BYU) about the updates that need to be made. I am hoping that over the next couple of weeks, I will be able to resume more of a focus on crafting those guidelines. Anyways, I know it's been a while since I touched bases with you, so I just wanted to check in. And although I have not been able thus far to contribute much to the guidelines, I am grateful that the process of crafting those seems to be going well. So I wanted to thank you again as well for your willingness to help me work around the long-standing issues we've been having when it comes to covering subjects about or leaders of the Church. I believe we have established the beginnings of good framework to resolve some of these long-standing issues, which would not have been possible if you had not been so open-minded in terms of understanding the problems and the associated frustrations. Thanks again, and keep up the great work! --Jgstokes (talk) 02:17, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

I am doing good, thanks. I appreciate the update. I hope everything goes well with your recuperation and personal life.

I did see your conversations with Rachel Helps (BYU), and I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with! No thanks required for my willingness to help–collaboration is what Wikipedia's all about. Nevertheless I am grateful for your words.

I have not progressed much with the draft myself, as I've also been busy in real life and in other areas of Wikipedia. I will continue to add to it whenever I can though and always be available for brainstorming. ––FormalDude talk 04:18, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Hey, FormalDude, thanks for the reply. I have a few obligations to take care of outside of Wikipedia this week, but hopefully within the next couple of weeks, I'll be contributing more fully to the guidelines. I did have a follow-up question or two to ask you personally, given your expertise with Notability guidelines. The main reasons that Church Presidents, their counselors, and/or any other apostles are significant is because their decisions affect the worldwide Church, and that, with few exceptions, the call of any individuals as apostles is expected to be for life. As I've mentioned in the recent reply to Rachel Helps (BYU), by contrast, any general authority seventy, member of the Presidency of the Seventy, or member of the Presiding Bishopric would generally be the top individuals under consideration to be the next apostles. And while a fair number of previous non-apostolic general authorities who have been released have passed away, there are others currently living. And their service keeps them in the world's spotlight at least till their releases at age 70. For General Officers of the Church, most would not merit an article of their own due to a lack of significant coverage from sources not affiliated with the Church, and due to the fact that the service of these General Officers is of a temporary duration (no more than 5 years, in general). Is there a way to establish standarad relevance of apostles, the Presidents and Acting Presidents of the Quorum of the Twelve, the First Presiency members, and the Presidents of the Church? Would you have any suggestions about the possibility of creating a temporary set of criteria for those whose active Church service makes them relevant for a temporary period of time? Would there be a way to establish different criteria for current General Authorities (including the Presidency of the Seventy, GA Seventies, and the Presiding Bishopric)? These questions are a reminder of the kinds of issues we've experienced in being able to retain such articles on Wikipedia in the past, so any specific suggestions which you might have would be something I'd welcome taking under advisement. I'm hoping with your administrative experience, you have the know-how about the nuances involved to provide some adive on this. Thanks again. --Jgstokes (talk) 21:30, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

@Jgstokes: Sorry for the delayed response, I've been pretty busy myself. I'd say there certainly is a way to establish standard notability guidelines for various church officials/figures. Basically, we would list anything that likely signifies a subject is notable. I think the People section of the draft is already a good start for this. ––FormalDude talk 07:19, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Recent move discussion

I am quite happy with the outcome of the page move discussion (Tiananmen square), my objections were technical not emotional. Although I am very surprised it happened. I thought many of these pages were tied up by politics and the status quo was unmovable. I know these discussions are not meant to be votes, even though they so often are, to that extent I admire the administrator for being bold. What is your take, is there something as a newbie I am missing? Dushan Jugum (talk) 00:52, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Dushan Jugum. First off, I wouldn't consider you a newbie. It looks like you've been here since 2004 (wow!) and have a few thousand more edits than me. So I don't think there's anything you're missing, but I'm happy to share my thoughts.

As the nominator I am also pleased with the result. I came into this knowing that it has been tied up by politics for a while–there have been eight requested moves for the article since 2011. So I wanted to propose something that was both realistic and hadn't been proposed before. I think the dam of people opposing "massacre" in the title finally broke when a good comprise was offered. I think the closer did a great job evaluating the discussion and I believe the close accurately reflects the current consensus. ––FormalDude talk 05:59, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Please explain

Please explain specifically why you tagged this article as you did. I can't locate the issue. — Epipelagic (talk) 21:03, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

@Epipelagic: I explained in my edit summary, but I'll go into further detail.

1. Copyright violation of text from http://vro.agriculture.vic.gov.au/dpi/vro/vrosite.nsf/pages/soilhealth_toolbox_organic_forms. Reason: not properly attributed under given license.

2. Copyright violation of text from https://doi.org/10.3389/fmars.2020.00518 which is likely of not under an acceptable copyright license for use on Wikipedia.

The first issue can be fixed by attributing the source as they declare necessary. The second issue can be resolved by rewording and paraphrasing the text instead of copying it verbatim. ––FormalDude talk 21:08, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. But neither of these are copyright violations. If you look at how these sources are cited in the article, you will find it says for each of them: Text was copied from this source, which is available under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. And you can check online yourself that these are indeed the licenses the sources were published under. — Epipelagic (talk) 21:19, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

My mistake, sorry for the inconvenience. ––FormalDude talk 21:23, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

“Links To Nazism” on Ace of Base’s page

My removal of that section was completely neutral. Two reasons:

1. A BAND MEMBER’S PAST, BEFORE HE MET THE BAND, IS IRRELEVANT INFO ON THE BAND PAGE. One member of the band was briefly in a skinhead gang in the early 80s. He left that gang years BEFORE joining Ace of Base. Ace of Base itself has zero ties to Naz*sm or any hate groups. That band member has vocally condemned his past since news articles in 1993. Attributing his past, which he condemns, to the band and its other members is the opposite of neutral. Anything that happened before Ace of Base and doesn’t have anything to do with Ace of Base doesn’t belong on Ace of Base’s wiki. Having a section on the band’s wiki saying “Links To Naz*sm” is NOT neutral. Ace of Base has NO “links to Naz*sm”. This isn’t 10 degrees of Kevin Bacon.

2. THE OTHER RUMORS ABOUT SECRET NAZ* MESSAGES IN THEIR SONGS HAVE BEEN DISCREDITED AND DISPROVEN. The “source” of alleged secret Naz* messages in Ace of Base’s lyrics and videos is a self described conspiracy theorist, and none of those claims are based in reality. I could make an article about how I think Tom Cruise has been making secret hand signals to convey that he enjoys eating children - that doesn’t mean it belongs on his wiki page.

LoveinDecember (talk) 02:33, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

@LoveinDecember Hello, if you are referring to this edit, it is in my opinion that the section that you are trying to remove does contain useful information, and personally, I don't think that the section is a WP:NPOV violation and the section seems to be supported by reputable sources. Assuming that your claims above are true, it would be useful for the article to contain such information, however, the information should not be added without citations supporting your claims, also, I would not suggest editing the article directly. You should leave suggestions on the article's talk page instead, you seem to be particularly passionate about the topic, and while it could definitely be a positive trait while writing articles, might lead to minor incivility while having a conflict with others, thanks! Justiyaya 06:12, 21 September 2021 (UTC) (talk page watcher)

@Justiyaya “useful information”? It’s fake news, which I posted proof of in the Ace of Base page’s talk section. I’ve cited printed news articles that directly contradict the Vice and Cracked articles. This is easily findable information that the conspiracy theorists would have found out by doing basic research. LoveinDecember (talk) 09:51, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Answered on Talk:Ace of Base#Request for wider feedback on Nazi claims, would appreciate it if you (Formal Dude) gave your opinion on the suggestion that I made there. Justiyaya 15:32, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Your submission at Articles for creation: HotNewHipHop.com (September 21)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by TheBirdsShedTears was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:HotNewHipHop.com and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:HotNewHipHop.com, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
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TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 15:56, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

@TheBirdsShedTears This was not my draft. ––FormalDude talk 16:30, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello, FormalDude! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 15:56, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Manson close

I am challenging your close of Talk:Marilyn_Manson#RfC_(allegations_in_lead) ([4]), per WP:CLOSECHALLENGE. Firstly, you say "The supporters' argument that impacts to Manson's career have already been significant is clearly evidenced and stronger than the opposing argument. Recentism and the fact that the allegations are unconfirmed were also both dissenting arguments, but those are not strong enough reasons to not include this reliably sourced significant content in the lead." You say one side of inclusion's arguments are stronger than exclusion without actually explaining why as both sides are equally policy based. Secondly you say the explict consensus was 'along the lines of' ""In 2021, multiple women accused Manson of psychologically and sexually abusing them." when only person who voted yes explictly supported that wording. Hardly any specific wording was discussed in the RfC, so saying that is really out of the blue. And the 'along the lines of' in this essentially means the consensus version [5] considering this first revert. Please revert and let someone else close or reclose this as no consensus. Regards  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 01:26, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

To your first issue: They are policy based arguments, but the discussion deemed them not persuasive enough. For recentism, it is not enough because of the significance of the impacts that the event had on Manson. For the allegations being unconfirmed, that doesn't matter, what matters is if they presented in reliable sources, which they are. It was rebutted in the discussion because the mere fact that the allegations are unconfirmed is not enough to omit such an occurrence from the lead section of Manson's article.

To your second issue: This is a fair point, there was some digression about the specific wording. But there was still a consensus to mention the allegations of sexual abuse against Manson in one sentence in the lead. I have adjusted the wording of my closure accordingly. ––FormalDude talk 01:44, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

I would also like to take this opportunity to challenge your close here. Per the template at Closure Requests, I would like to discuss your closure of Talk:Marilyn_Manson#RfC_(allegations_in_lead), which I found perplexing. I do not disagree that the allegations should be included in the lead, but wholeheartedly disagree with your interpretation of the discussion, and how it was immediately interpreted by Sdbk to continue edit warring the article. There was no consensus that I can see which supported Sdbk's misinterpretation of MANDY--an essay that flies in the face of genuine Wikipedia policies like WP:BALANCE and WP:NPOV. Your closing statement that "Updates to the sentence should come from a talk page discussion." is in effect a furtherance of that misinterpretation, considering that editor's behavior. I would appreciate your feedback on these specific issues before I take this further. Thanks. Homeostasis07 (talk/contributions) 01:46, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@Homeostasis07: I updated my consensus slightly, I believe it addresses your concerns. I also reverted Sdbk's edit. Please let me know if you have any other questions. ––FormalDude talk 01:59, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. What, in your opinion, is the appropriate venue for having an essay removed from Wikipedia? I've never before in my 15 years on this site felt the need to nominate an essay for deletion, but genuinely do now and have no idea where to begin. Since this particular essay actively misinterprets policies in order to come to a conclusion that is in direct opposition to several of the WP:5PILLARS, I feel I have no choice but to... lest this be introduced by other users in future discussions or RfCs. I believe this would be of huge benefit to the community in general. Homeostasis07 (talk/contributions) 02:08, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@Homeostasis07: Appropriate venue would be Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion. Although I might suggest talking about it at the essay's talk page first. Right now I personally don't share your belief that the essay needs to be deleted, but I guess I could be convinced if the reasoning was laid out well enough. ––FormalDude talk 02:17, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Deletion review for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timothy J. Edens (3rd nomination)

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timothy J. Edens (3rd nomination). Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Mztourist (talk) 05:56, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

This is getting very messy as User:Thewolfchild reinstated your close and then User:GraemeLeggett undid that. Then User:Thewolfchild complained that the AFD and the review both remain open. So please revert your undo of my deletion of the deletion review. Mztourist (talk) 08:02, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@Mztourist: Deleting the deletion review is not the proper procedure, it should be archived. And I believe it should not be closed prematurely, we need to allow someone who is experienced with deletion review to weigh in. They can then do the archiving as well. ––FormalDude talk 08:06, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

An admin has just closed the deletion review for us. Problem solved. ––FormalDude talk 08:08, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

I wanted to say it there but I was pulled away, and it was closed by the time I got back again. I have not done AFD uncloses myself but I would think you need to unarchive discussions from the deletion sorting lists where the bot has already archived them. Regards! Usedtobecool ☎️ 10:08, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Um? You okay?

Hey, saw this edit what's up? You okay? Sadads (talk) 12:44, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@Sadads: That is an embarrassing accident of me trying to test the edit filter. Sorry for causing any concern. ––FormalDude talk 14:28, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

No worries, I just wanted to make sure that wasn't a hijacked account issue ;) Or your system not cooperating :D -- Hope you are having a good day :) Sadads (talk) 15:06, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

You've been whacked with a WikiMinnow.. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you might have done something silly.

Firefangledfeathers (talk) 14:49, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

I deserve that :p ––FormalDude talk 05:23, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. - wolf 20:21, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Can you explain...

...what's so unconstructive about my edit on the Lewis (given name) page? What I removed violates WP:OVERLINK. --2A01:36D:1200:4530:B031:9D3D:4BB2:639C (talk) 10:06, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Also, the manual of style for DAB pages specifically says that Include exactly one navigable (blue) link to efficiently guide readers to the most relevant article for that use of the ambiguous term. Do not wikilink any other words in the line. So anything apart from the link being disambiguated should not be linked i.e. words like American, Michigan shouldn't be linked in that article. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:32, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Why was Yiannis Laouris page deleted

Hi FormalDude

I happen to be the person portrayed in the above page, which was created by American students and faculty almost 20 years ago when they met me as key figure in citizens' driven peace reconciliation and conflict resolution initiatives in Cyprus (between Greek and Turkish Cypriots) and in the Middle East (between Israelis and Palestinians).

I myself know almost nothing of how wikipedia works and I have created an account in order to find out why an almost 20 year old page can suddenly be deleted. After its original creation, I noticed many times in its history that lots of people kept adding or editing or changing things; sometimes in ways that I personally did not approve, including their choice of my picture (taken by a student during an event).

I would appreciate your advice and/or intervention for the restoration of the above page. I could provide you myself with any 3rd party references to add to that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yiannislaouris (talk • contribs) 18:06, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Yiannislaouris, essentially, the article was deleted for not not meeting the inclusion policy (WP:GNG) for Wikipedia, which is having atleast 2 reliable, independent sources that provides significant coverage on the subject, the deletion method used is WP:AFD and the relevant deletion discussion is located on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yiannis Laouris.

If you think there are sources that would justify notability for the subject, post links here and we'll review them and give our opinion on if they would satisfy WP:GNG

Do not attempt to recreate the page or engage in editing in areas which you have a conflict of interest, that would most likely result in the page being deleted again or the edit being reverted. Justiyaya 18:45, 24 September 2021 (UTC) (talk page watcher)

 Courtesy link: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Yiannis_Laouris ––FormalDude talk 20:18, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi FormalDude, I appreciate that you have responded to my message. For me to be able to provide with links of sources that would hopefully justify notability for the subject, I would need to be able to "view" what was written in the deleted article. Is there a way to get a copy of that article?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Yiannislaouris (talk • contribs)

@Yiannislaouris Requested refund at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion#Yiannis Laouris (permalink), might take a while Justiyaya 05:20, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi FormalDude, a page that I referred to from several others has disappeared. I found this discussion here and understood that the article was deleted because it did not have at least two verifiable sources. I, therefore, decided to engage here and provide some, but if you want me, I can do more research:

1. ONLIFE Manifesto

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This scientist was one of 12 scientists/philosophers chosen by the European Commission (Digital Task Force)to author a Manifesto with guidelines on how to remain human in the digital era. Four or five of them have subsequently presented it in the European Parliament: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/events/being-human-hyperconnected-era https://epthinktank.eu/2014/12/08/what-makes-us-human-in-a-hyper-connected-era/ has a section of each presenter. Event is available as video at European parliament site https://multimedia.europarl.europa.eu/en/science-and-technology-options-assessment_20141202-1700-SPECIAL-UNKN_vd His talk starts on min 18:31:30 Book is open access by Springer https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-319-04093-6

2. This individual is a key figure in the Cyprus Peace Process

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His name appears in at least 4-5 key initiatives such as: 2.1 Technology for Peace https://web.archive.org/web/20131017084742/http://www.tech4peace.org/nqcontent234c.html?a_id=1 https://web.archive.org/web/20110724203325/http://mirror.undp.org/cyprus/projects/project_details.asp?ProjectID=105 The UN document in the second one the organization Cyprus Neuroscience and Technology Institute, where this individual was the president of the Board at the time. 2.2 Youth Promoting Peace https://www.futureworlds.eu/wiki/Youth_Promoting_Peace 2.3 Also published many scientific articles (>10) about the conflict and attempts for reconciliation and a book: https://www.amazon.com/Masks-Demons-Discovering-Breaking-Stereotypes/dp/1461083206/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1305577052&sr=1-2 His name appears in many authors' books/journals, eg RECONCILIATION AND PEACEEDUCATION IN CYPRUS: WHAT WILL IT TAKE? Laurie Johnson https://cyprusreview.org/index.php/cr/article/view/280/243

2.4 First Bicommunal Radio https://www.coe.int/t/dg4/cultureheritage/mars/source/resources/references/others/11%20-%20Media%20Working%20Together%20-%20CCMC%202012.pdf COE: is Council of Europe Originally supported by Washington DC-based organization: https://hasna.org/tuning-in-to-peace-bilingual-radio-program-in-cyprus-initiated-by-hasna-wins-award/

3. PhD simultaneously with first degree; rare distinction in Germany

---

This person was the first foreign student (in 45 years) to receive PhD in parallel to graduation; also scored: suma cum laude I recall several newspaper links in the deleted article, which were probably in Greek and maybe not linked to newspapers archives, but other archives, so I found one in Germany https://www.nd-archiv.de/artikel/1044065.am-ende-des-studiums-bereits-promoviert.html?sstr=ende%7Cdes%7Cstudiums%7Cbereits%7Cpromoviert Cypriot newspapers covered this widely at the time (1985!) If this helps, I could do more research in Cypriot sources, etc (since I speak Greek) to discover more reliable sources.

A word of thanks

... for this !vote at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Russell Surasky. We all make errors of judgement (I'm a world champion!), but not all of us so generously admit to them. I hope that nothing I said in the various discussions came across as criticism of you or your actions, but if it did then please excuse me – it was not so intended. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:35, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Justlettersandnumbers, that's very nice of you to say. I always try my best to admit my mistakes, I think it is a vital part of encyclopedic collaboration. You kept all your discussion focused on the content, so I didn't take anything you said personally. Best wishes! ––FormalDude talk 20:25, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

RE: Draft:Rolf Engen

Hi User: FormalDude - first, thank you for working on this - I am relatively new to Wikipedia, and I just wanted to connect to determine to which areas you're specifically referring re: copyrighted content issues. I've been working on this one article for several months, and prior versions were denied on account of tone questions, but this is the first instance in which copyrighted material arose. But I am more than happy simply to remove it to move the ball forward. To which sections are you referring, that I may remove them? Thank you again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopheraweed (talk • contribs) 07:05, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

See https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&title=Draft%3ARolf_Engen&oldid=&action=search&use_engine=1&use_links=1 ––FormalDude talk 07:14, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

NuWave

You removed my reference to another product on this manufacturer's page citing that it was promotional naming a product. Did you read the article??? It ALREADY SAYS "The company also makes various other culinary products, including the NuWave Precision Induction Cooktop, the NuWave Brio Digital Air Fryer, NuWave Flavor-Lockers, NuWave Nutri-Pot Digital Pressure Cooker and Duralon Non-Stick Cookware." How is my add of a newer product any different? Please reverse your change - thanks SanVeneto (talk) 20:19, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

@SanVeneto: I've submitted the article for deletion. ––FormalDude talk 07:53, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Smart LOL SanVeneto (talk) 13:41, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

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Wikidata weekly summary #487

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

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  • Open request for adminship: BrokenSegue (RfP scheduled to end after 27 September 2021 14:36 UTC)

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• Tool of the week
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• Development
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You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

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Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Mohammed Sadat (WMDE) 13:45, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Red Bull

Hello! You were kind enough to update the Red Bull entry based on a couple edit requests I submitted on the article's talk page. I've submitted a few more similarly straightforward requests on the talk page, if you're willing to help out again. I don't think any of the three requested updates would take too long to review, and I'm happy to address any questions or concerns. Thanks for your consideration! Inkian Jason (talk) 14:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Certainly happy to help out again, @Inkian Jason, I'll start reviewing now. ––FormalDude talk 21:37, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks so much, once again! I've shared overviews of products and sports sponsorships, which I'd like to think are significant improvements over the article's existing content, if you're willing to revisit. Much appreciated, Inkian Jason (talk) 15:34, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Help with tables

Hello!! Thank you for replying to my message on Oshwah's page! On the Dogfish Head Brewery Page, there are a couple of new year round selections that came out recently, and I've never added sections to a table/layout before, as I'm still learning how to edit certain formats. I have references to support the additions, just want to make sure I do it correctly. I greatly appreciate you offering to help, and thank you so much for the page on editing my home page, I appreciate it! On a side note, Oshwah has been inactive for a while, I hope he's ok! Spf121188 (talk) 21:13, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

@Spf121188: No problem, it's pretty easy once you know what to look for. This is an example of a row from the table:

|-

| Burton Baton || <span style="display:none">00</span> Nov 2004 || Year Round || English [[Old Ale]] mixed with the 90 Minute [[India Pale Ale|IPA]] || 10.0 || 70

|-

The first line and the last line identify the start and end of the row. The middle line defines the row parameters. All you have to do to add a new row to the table is copy the following three lines of code, replacing the *parameters* in the middle line with your own:

|-

| *NAME* || <span style="display:none">00</span> *DATE (Mon YYYY)* || *Availability* || *Description* || *ABV* || *IBU*

|-

Paste it where ever you want the row to appear on the table. If you need additional help, let me know. If you'd like I can always add a row for you if you give me the information, so that you have an example edit to go off of.

P.S. I hope Oshwah is okay as well; I think they are just taking a well-deserved break. ––FormalDude talk 21:32, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello again! Thank you so much for the help! I was able to add a row to the table, and it looks like it worked out, but can I get you to check it out for me to make sure it looks ok and is cited correctly? Again, I really appreciate your help! Spf121188 (talk) 21:59, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Good job, @Spf121188, looks great! ––FormalDude talk 23:47, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you again! If it’s okay I’ll reach back out if I need help with anything. I appreciate it! Spf121188 (talk) 00:36, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Of course, anytime! ––FormalDude talk 00:38, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

no more abandoned

i hate dublin metrolink being abandoned — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.204.129.5 (talk) 07:33, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

1. Add four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment, or
2. With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button located above the edit window.

This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.

Thank you. ––FormalDude talk 07:36, 29 September 2021 (UTC) ––FormalDude talk 07:36, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Untitled comment

How to add a source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Studio52group (talk • contribs) 07:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Studio52group! You should check out referencing for beginners. What are the sources that you want to add? ––FormalDude talk 07:42, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Copyvio in Draft:Rolf Engen

Hello. I noticed you declined the submission of Draft:Rolf Engen due to a copyright violation. Earwig's report does not detect a copyvio in the draft. Most all of the detection is from direct quotes. Is there another detector you used to find a copyvio? Thanks. — Pbrks (talk) 21:02, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

@Pbrks: My mistake, I've reverted my decline. ––FormalDude talk 21:29, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) FormalDude, I don't think you were wrong at all – there was excessive taking from a large number of sources. Some has been removed, but I've (re-)declined the submission as a copyvio. I was right on the edge of blanking it and listing at WP:CP, and am still not sure that that wouldn't be the best option. Pbrks, "most all" isn't really good enough for us. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:57, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Justlettersandnumbers, appreciate it. ––FormalDude talk 04:00, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

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Administrators' newsletter – October 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2021).

Administrator changes

Blablubbs

Alvestrand • Black Falcon • Deathphoenix • Dppowell • Mark Arsten • JGHowes (deceased)

Oversighter changes

Callanecc

Mkdw

Interface administrator changes

Galobtter

Guideline and policy news

• Following an RfC, extended confirmed protection may be used preemptively on certain high-risk templates.
• Following a discussion at the Village Pump, there is consensus to treat discord logs the same as IRC logs. This means that discord logs will be oversighted if posted onwiki.

Technical news

• DiscussionTools has superseded Enterprisey's reply-link script. Editors may switch using the "Discussion tools" checkbox under Preferences → Beta features.

Arbitration

• A motion has standardised the 500/30 (extended confirmed) restrictions placed by the Arbitration Committee. The standardised restriction is now listed in the Arbitration Committee's procedures.
• Following the closure of the Iranian politics case, standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all edits about, and all pages related to, post-1978 Iranian politics, broadly construed.
• The Arbitration Committee encourages uninvolved administrators to use the discretionary sanctions procedure in topic areas where it is authorised to facilitate consensus in RfCs. This includes, but is not limited to, enforcing sectioned comments, word/diff limits and moratoriums on a particular topic from being brought in an RfC for up to a year.

Miscellaneous

• Editors have approved expanding the trial of Growth Features from 2% of new accounts to 25%, and the share of newcomers getting mentorship from 2% to 5%. Experienced editors are invited to add themselves to the mentor list.
• The community consultation phase of the 2021 CheckUser and Oversight appointments process is open for editors to provide comments and ask questions to candidates.

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