Talk:Ted Cruz: Difference between revisions
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::::This is what Shopes has to say on the topic. https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/10/28/ted-cruz-defend-nazi-salutes/ It's obvious that even if Cruz wasn't defending nazism itself, just the use of the nazi salute to draw equivalence between a school requiring people to wear masks for health reasons and Nazi Germany trivializes the holocaust, and this wouldn't be the first time he defended inappropriate nazi comparisons made by right-wingers. He also defended [[Gina Carano]]. There seems to be a pattern of behavior, defending statements and gestures that have been condemned as trivializing the holocaust. Is mentioning that undue? [[Special:Contributions/46.97.170.79|46.97.170.79]] ([[User talk:46.97.170.79|talk]]) 10:31, 3 November 2021 (UTC) |
::::This is what Shopes has to say on the topic. https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/10/28/ted-cruz-defend-nazi-salutes/ It's obvious that even if Cruz wasn't defending nazism itself, just the use of the nazi salute to draw equivalence between a school requiring people to wear masks for health reasons and Nazi Germany trivializes the holocaust, and this wouldn't be the first time he defended inappropriate nazi comparisons made by right-wingers. He also defended [[Gina Carano]]. There seems to be a pattern of behavior, defending statements and gestures that have been condemned as trivializing the holocaust. Is mentioning that undue? [[Special:Contributions/46.97.170.79|46.97.170.79]] ([[User talk:46.97.170.79|talk]]) 10:31, 3 November 2021 (UTC) |
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:::::All the other sources don't contradict it. All it takes is watching the video and understanding the parents were delivering commentary on the schoolboard to see what is going on here. Look at the original incident. Are the parents actually Neo-Nazis or are they parents who are expressing frustration with their school board? It wasn't Cruz who said this was parents expressing their dislike of the school board. Cruz simply asked if such expressions are protected by the 1stA. The answer was yes. Regardless of how some wish to cast this it ultimately isn't DUE in the Cruz article and the easy solution here is to leave this out. Side note, IP editor, your vendetta against Gina Carano is not relevant here. [[User:Springee|Springee]] ([[User talk:Springee|talk]]) 12:34, 3 November 2021 (UTC) |
:::::All the other sources don't contradict it. All it takes is watching the video and understanding the parents were delivering commentary on the schoolboard to see what is going on here. Look at the original incident. Are the parents actually Neo-Nazis or are they parents who are expressing frustration with their school board? It wasn't Cruz who said this was parents expressing their dislike of the school board. Cruz simply asked if such expressions are protected by the 1stA. The answer was yes. Regardless of how some wish to cast this it ultimately isn't DUE in the Cruz article and the easy solution here is to leave this out. Side note, IP editor, your vendetta against Gina Carano is not relevant here. [[User:Springee|Springee]] ([[User talk:Springee|talk]]) 12:34, 3 November 2021 (UTC) |
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::::::This has nothing to do with any supposed vendettas I may or may not have though. I brought it up because if Ted Cruz's interpretation of what the parents were doing is correct, then this is a similar case. What we have here is Ted Cruz once again jumping to the defense of someone on the right who makes an inappropriate comparison to Nazi Germany and getting condemned for trivializing the holocaust (which is odd, because these are the same folks who usually oppose nazi comparisons that are somewhat more grounded in reality than this one). The Snopes article I linked to covered the criticism of Ted Cruz for this by members of the jewish community. I don't believe this is something that can just be ignored. [[Special:Contributions/46.97.170.79|46.97.170.79]] ([[User talk:46.97.170.79|talk]]) 15:24, 3 November 2021 (UTC) |
Revision as of 15:25, 3 November 2021
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Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2021
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add Category:Law clerks of J. Michael Luttig 204.80.86.96 (talk) 16:15, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
- Fixed format of this request so it is a little clearer. Not sure if category does not exist or is misspelled. RudolfRed (talk) 16:43, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
- Not done for now: Category does not exist. Per MOS:CATORDER, articles should not be left with redlink categories. Once the category page has been created, please feel free to reopen this request. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 17:07, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Ted Cruz's elementary school
This Dallas Morning News article stated Cruz attended a "West Briar School"
- "Senate candidate Ted Cruz aims to pick up mantle of Reagan". The Dallas Morning News. 2012-04-29. Retrieved 2021-09-18.
And in Houstonia Magazine it was stated Cruz identified it as a private elementary school. However Scott Vogel of Houstonia could not determine which "West Briar School" it was, and the only school with a similar name is a public middle school in Houston ISD, West Briar Middle School (since it opened in 2002 it is not possible for Ted Cruz to have gone there, as Cruz was born in 1970).
- Vogel, Scott (2015-09-01). "Vetting Ted Cruz's Presidential Resumé". Houstonia Magazine. Retrieved 2021-09-18.
Due to concerns with WP:UNDUE I omitted the elementary school question entirely as it's relatively insignificant related to Cruz's biography, but I have a note here for editors who want to identify where Cruz went to school before Awty. (There seems to be no dispute at all that Cruz went to Awty, and both Houstonia and DMN stated he went to Awty, with the former stating it was for junior high specifically) WhisperToMe (talk) 17:00, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
Ted Cruz comment on Donald Trump’s extensive tweeting
Reverted quote:
He said of Donald Trump: "I wake up every day and laugh at the latest thing Donald has tweeted, because he’s losing it. We need a commander in chief, not a Twitterer in chief. We need someone with judgment and the temperament to keep this country safe."
My revision was reverted for the following reason : « Significant POV issue, because his comment from February 2016 does not show how he fell in line behind Trump after losing the nomination »
The quote has its place to help define the relationship he once had with Donald Trump and just needs to be pushed back in its chronological place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madouvit (talk • contribs) 20:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
- Cherrypicking one comment that he made in February 2016 is not neutral because of all that it omits. It does not "define the relationship" that they've had. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:11, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Defending the Nazi salute
Ted Cruz has been under fire recently for coming out in defense of certain individuals doing the Nazi salute at the right wing rallies in Loudoun county. Is this notable, or is it too recent? 46.97.170.79 (talk) 10:09, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Per this Mr Cruz merely asked a question and the reply was yes. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 18:07, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Peter Gulutzan, WP:FOXNEWS is not a reliable source for political news, as you can see from their headline defending Cruz. This coverage is out of line with how other outlets covered his remarks.[1][2][3] – Muboshgu (talk) 18:19, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- I pointed to Fox and that's okay, you pointed to two opinion columns and a headline and that's okay, Mr Cruz merely asked a question and the reply was yes and that's okay. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 18:50, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Peter GulutzanThat's your interpretation. Wikipedia goes by reliable secondary sources. If three reliable sources say Ted Cruz defended the use of the Nazi salute, while Fox News says he did not, then he was defending the nazi salute. This is not up for debate. 46.97.170.79 (talk) 08:35, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Got 3 RSs and a policy saying debate's not allowed? Peter Gulutzan (talk) 12:47, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- No. Three reliable sources, and a policy saying we go by reliable sources. Nobody says debate is not allowed. Find a reliable source that says your interpretation is the correct one, and we'll have something to debate. Right now though, there's nothing to debate because there's only one position. 46.97.170.79 (talk) 13:40, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Got 3 RSs and a policy saying debate's not allowed? Peter Gulutzan (talk) 12:47, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Peter GulutzanThat's your interpretation. Wikipedia goes by reliable secondary sources. If three reliable sources say Ted Cruz defended the use of the Nazi salute, while Fox News says he did not, then he was defending the nazi salute. This is not up for debate. 46.97.170.79 (talk) 08:35, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Muboshgu, Fox News is listed as no consensus, use with caution with respect to political reporting. It this case it is very clear that Cruz is defending freedom of speech/expression and the freedom of parents to, in effect, accuse their school board of acting like preverbal Nazis.[[4]]. So why would this be in his BLP? Is the intent to show he supports free speech/expression? I suspect we can do that without this example. Is it to show parts of the media misrepresented or are unable to understand the question? Well that's not really about Cruz at that point. It seems UNDUE either way. Springee (talk) 00:57, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
- I don't know why there would be no consensus on the reliability of Fox News, especially on political topics and science, but it's safe to say that if Fox News says one thing and all reliable sources contradict it, then the Fox version is not the incorrect one. Same for Reason. While it's listed as reliable on WP:RSP the three noticeboard discussions on it paint a completely different picture. I personally trust user:JzG's judgement on reliability, over a majority vote anyway.
Hyper-partisan sources are not reliable for unattributed statements of fact. This includes the likes of The Intercept, Mother Jones, HuffPos, Slate, National Review, Reason, Weekly Standard. These sources are always open to challenge and should be removed if challenged and only reintroduced if there is consensus.
The nazi salute being a statement comparing the school board to nazis is a claim Ted Cruz made. Him defending freedom of expression is how Fox and Reason report the incident. Two sources that are known to be ideologically biased in Ted Cruz's favor. Is this what reliable sources like CNN say? So why would this be in his BLP? Is the intent to show he supports free speech/expression? I suspect we can do that without this example.
Positive contentious claims that aren't supported by reliable sources aren't any more in line with WP:BLP than negative ones. This is not a neutral statement about a BLP subject.Is it to show parts of the media misrepresented or are unable to understand the question?
Misrepresented? That's not on wikipedia to decide? If reliable sources say Ted Cruz defended the nazi salute, it takes something better than Fox, Reason or original research to overrule that.- This is what Shopes has to say on the topic. https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/10/28/ted-cruz-defend-nazi-salutes/ It's obvious that even if Cruz wasn't defending nazism itself, just the use of the nazi salute to draw equivalence between a school requiring people to wear masks for health reasons and Nazi Germany trivializes the holocaust, and this wouldn't be the first time he defended inappropriate nazi comparisons made by right-wingers. He also defended Gina Carano. There seems to be a pattern of behavior, defending statements and gestures that have been condemned as trivializing the holocaust. Is mentioning that undue? 46.97.170.79 (talk) 10:31, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
- All the other sources don't contradict it. All it takes is watching the video and understanding the parents were delivering commentary on the schoolboard to see what is going on here. Look at the original incident. Are the parents actually Neo-Nazis or are they parents who are expressing frustration with their school board? It wasn't Cruz who said this was parents expressing their dislike of the school board. Cruz simply asked if such expressions are protected by the 1stA. The answer was yes. Regardless of how some wish to cast this it ultimately isn't DUE in the Cruz article and the easy solution here is to leave this out. Side note, IP editor, your vendetta against Gina Carano is not relevant here. Springee (talk) 12:34, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
- This has nothing to do with any supposed vendettas I may or may not have though. I brought it up because if Ted Cruz's interpretation of what the parents were doing is correct, then this is a similar case. What we have here is Ted Cruz once again jumping to the defense of someone on the right who makes an inappropriate comparison to Nazi Germany and getting condemned for trivializing the holocaust (which is odd, because these are the same folks who usually oppose nazi comparisons that are somewhat more grounded in reality than this one). The Snopes article I linked to covered the criticism of Ted Cruz for this by members of the jewish community. I don't believe this is something that can just be ignored. 46.97.170.79 (talk) 15:24, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
- All the other sources don't contradict it. All it takes is watching the video and understanding the parents were delivering commentary on the schoolboard to see what is going on here. Look at the original incident. Are the parents actually Neo-Nazis or are they parents who are expressing frustration with their school board? It wasn't Cruz who said this was parents expressing their dislike of the school board. Cruz simply asked if such expressions are protected by the 1stA. The answer was yes. Regardless of how some wish to cast this it ultimately isn't DUE in the Cruz article and the easy solution here is to leave this out. Side note, IP editor, your vendetta against Gina Carano is not relevant here. Springee (talk) 12:34, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
- I don't know why there would be no consensus on the reliability of Fox News, especially on political topics and science, but it's safe to say that if Fox News says one thing and all reliable sources contradict it, then the Fox version is not the incorrect one. Same for Reason. While it's listed as reliable on WP:RSP the three noticeboard discussions on it paint a completely different picture. I personally trust user:JzG's judgement on reliability, over a majority vote anyway.
- I pointed to Fox and that's okay, you pointed to two opinion columns and a headline and that's okay, Mr Cruz merely asked a question and the reply was yes and that's okay. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 18:50, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Peter Gulutzan, WP:FOXNEWS is not a reliable source for political news, as you can see from their headline defending Cruz. This coverage is out of line with how other outlets covered his remarks.[1][2][3] – Muboshgu (talk) 18:19, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
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