Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

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The miscellaneous section of the village pump is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please post on the policy, technical, or proposals sections when appropriate, or at the help desk for assistance. For general knowledge questions, please use the reference desk.

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Global ban for Niveles and socks

Hello. I've started a "Request for Comment" (RfC) on Meta for globally banning Niveles and his socks. As at least one of the accounts has edited on this project, I had to notify you. The discussion will be held at m:Requests for comment/Global ban for Niveles and socks. Thank you. ~Styyx^{Talk? ^-^} 18:05, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Leadership Development Task Force: Your feedback is appreciated

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.

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The Community Development team at the Wikimedia Foundation is supporting the creation of a global, community-driven Leadership Development Task Force. The purpose of the task force is to advise leadership development work.

The team is looking for feedback about the responsibilities of the Leadership Development Task Force. This Meta page shares the proposal for a Leadership Development Task Force and how you can help. Feedback on the proposal will be collected from 7 to 25 February 2022.

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The team is also hosting Community Calls, including an introductory call on 23 February 2022 at 15:00 UTC where community members are invited to share their experiences. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 03:13, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Is the logo for Wikipedia:WikiProject Autism offensive to autistic people?

I stumbled onto Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Autism#Please update symbolism and language. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 18:21, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

That was just a discussion about the logo being used by that project, not about the logo for Wikipedia. Schazjmd (talk) 18:25, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

To editor Schazjmd: The project logo was File:WikiProject Autism logo, July 2014.png, and their problem is the puzzle logo itself, not its colors, so basically Wikipedia logo. —Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 18:34, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Est. 2021, the objection was to the logo being associated with WikiProject Autism, not to it being used as Wikipedia's logo. Schazjmd (talk) 19:31, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Let's remember that autistic people are just as diverse as neurotypicals, so the answer to the question posed is almost certainly that the logo is offensive to some autistic people but not to others. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:59, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

I consider myself to be on the autism spectrum. Agreed with Phil Bridger. I also think that those who participate in the WikiProject should be allowed to choose their own logo. It isn't important enough to involve the wider community. Federalism. MarshallKe (talk) 00:06, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

It's a pretty clear reference to the traditional puzzle-piece logo composed of those colours, for those unaware of the context. The uses of puzzle pieces in combination with those particular colours has a long history as being used as a symbol of autism. The reason why some people are not OK with that is they feel that the usage of a puzzle piece to represent autism presents autism as a metaphorical puzzle to be solved i.e. cured. The proposed alternate logo is that of the neurodiversity movement which considers autism to be a natural variation in the human mind and not something to be cured. This is an incredibly controversial still-ongoing debate. It would be ill-advised for us to wade into this discussion, but if we were to do so a forced compromise logo would have to be bland & inoffensive to all. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 14:26, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

(I was diagnosed young, for what it's worth) I find the coloration is an assault on the eyes, but that's simply an aesthetic preference, it's not at all offensive. And while I never much cared for the puzzle piece symbol, that has more to do with generally disliking using common items as symbols for... whatever; I have no compunction about telling people who are offended by it to lighten up, nothing bad is happening to us autistics because of a loose association with a puzzle piece. (As an aside, the neurodiversity symbol looks like some strange knockoff of a pride flag or something, it's not as garish but still runs into the using a common item as a symbol for something totally random) The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:19, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

MPEG-2 format not yet popular here?

The last patent for MPEG-2 format expired four years ago, yet not one such non-free file has been found. If everyone is already aware of the patent expiration, then why do I see mpg files stored in Commons and not Wikipedia? --George Ho (talk) 08:32, 10 February 2022 (UTC); edited, 08:34, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

MPEG2 file are acceptable on Commons. Ruslik_Zero 20:13, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Why RFA/RFB use a voting system?

Moved from WP:VPP

Hi, I am a Wikipedian from the Chinese Wikipedia. Chinese Wikipedia, when the community is just created, applied a lot of English Wikipedia policies. Nowadays, for some reasons, the Chinese Wikipedian Community is having a lot of differences from the English one, thus a lot of policies is no longer suit the Chinese Wikipedian Community. For example, some Wikipedians are thinking of "Why RFA/RFB uses a voting system while other roles (for example, Rollbackers) uses a simple consensus system?"

（没道理）管理等等要走連署和解任投票，巡查之類的按共識。
— Роу Уилсон Фредериск Холм, Chinese Wikipedia Telegram Group

However, Jimbo Wales said that sysop is just like normal Wikipedians:

Becoming a sysop is not a big deal.
— Jimbo Wales, [WikiEN-l] Sysop status

So, why does RFA/RFB use a voting system, that's different from the other roles? Wiki Emoji | [[User:Emojiwiki|_Talk~~ 11:26, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

@Emojiwiki: assuming that you aren't suggesting that en-wiki change its methodology, this probably isn't the right place. That said, firstly, despite Jimbo's words many (though by no means all) editors think that RfA is a big deal. Additionally, RfA/RfB are only mostly a vote - RfA has a threshold (65-75%) where it's far more consensus, and oppose !votes need reasoning to be counted. Nosebagbear (talk) 14:07, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

@Роу Уилсон Фредериск Холм: moved this to VPM, as it is not a discussion about changing enwiki's policy. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:13, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Note, your signature is broken, please fix in Special:Preferences (you may not use templates in signatures). — xaosflux ^Talk 14:14, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Whose sign is broken? IS it mine? Wiki Emoji | Emojiwiki _Talk~~ 05:01, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

• See WP:NOTAVOTE. in general, while we have thresholds, RfA is a consensus system here on the English Wikipeida, while most of our WP:PERM flags are actually discretionary grants. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:16, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
• The realistic answer is probably just because that's how the initial RFA process was setup a few decades ago, and there was never any consensus to move it to any other method, so the initial system stays as the status quo. AFAIK adminship and RfA also came before any of the unbundled groups, the first of which I assume was rollbacker (in 2008?), so it's probably more of a case that those groups diverged from the RfA-like process, rather than vice versa. It looks like the process for admins granting user groups was hashed out at Wikipedia:Non-administrator_rollback, possibly even before. Based on the links at that page, it seems earlier and less ambitious alternate methods of appointment were discussed at Wikipedia:Requests for rollback privileges, which propose a less-votey process. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 14:16, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

@Emojiwiki: People say it is "not a big deal" but this is a lie. Everyone knows it is a big deal now and that's why WP:RFA is so complicated. Other roles though are not a big deal, since they don't come with the "big three", the ability to WP:delete, WP:block, and WP:protect. Almost all other abilities are given out because they are not that important. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 14:35, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

New IP hitting the ground running

What, if anything, do you do when you notice an IP who is clearly not a newbie?

No particular "incident" for AN here, but clearly 94.252.4.105 (talk · contribs) has hit the ground running starting yesterday, and is familiar with categorization (1, 2, 3, 4, 5), finding and adding articles to "See also" (6, 7, 8, 9), retargeting redirects (10) and the details of Image syntax (11). It's safe to say they've edited before. (In addition, there is an active page block on range 94.252.0.0/17 placed on 6 February by Ohnoitsjamie.)

At first glance, their edits (at least at this IP) seem consistently beneficial. I left them a standard IP welcome message which includes an invitation to WP:REGISTER, but other than that, is there anything to do or note here? Mathglot (talk) 22:25, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

In my opinion, no. Only if they edit disruptively, and then it's most likely an ANI matter. I knew an admin once who sometimes edited as an IP for the purpose of researching how IPs are treated. (His results were fairly depressing.) Why not? Bishonen | tålk 22:32, 10 February 2022 (UTC).

It could be a registered editor, deliberately or accidentally logged out. They may also have edited from other IPs before either moving location or having their address randomly changed by their ISP. Either way, let's judge the edits themselves, and thank or warn them like any other editor if appropriate. Certes (talk) 22:55, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

There is no requirement that a user register for an account and many productive editors don't use accounts. Assume Good Faith and judge the edits on their merits not on if they are from an IP address. RudolfRed (talk) 00:31, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

experienced editors who use their IP to edit usually get changed semi-often due to the vagarities of ISPs. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 14:06, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

See also WP:LOGOUT (portion of the sockpuppetry policy). There is no policy against someone with an account editing the encyclopedia while logged out 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 04:00, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Terminology: "slaves" vs. "enslaved people"

Hello. I have started a Request for Comment about whether the "Confederate States of America" article should use the terms "slaves" / "African slaves" or should use the terms "enslaved people" / "enslaved Africans". This question also applies to other articles. Interested editors are encouraged to comment at Talk:Confederate States of America#Request for comment: "slaves" vs. "enslaved people" (and not here, to keep the discussion all in one place). Thanks. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 01:47, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

I raised this question a while back with Dlthewave who was making the change to a large number of pages even though I didn't see any of the sources actually supporting that terminology. My efforts to raise the issue on their talk page went no where but a discussion did occur on K.e.coffman's page[[1]]. I don't think there was any consensus and Dlthewave continued to make the edits. Springee (talk) 02:20, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Pretty sure we handle it the same way we handle the quotation punctuation issue (e.g. punctuation on the inside or outside of quotation marks, "word." "word".). As long as whichever version is consistent within the article (and in this case, also representative of the sources), then there doesn't need to be a WP-wide standard. Curbon7 (talk) 02:31, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Sometimes it is helpful to have a guide. I observed an editor making the change to many low traffic articles. It's not always practical to raise a talk page discussion on each one. Springee (talk) 02:43, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

@Curbon7: There is a Wikipedia-wide standard for positioning of quotation marks ... logical quotation. A better example is probably BC/BCE vs. AD/C. Graham87 04:26, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Yeah that lol. Curbon7 (talk) 15:56, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Analyse your contributions using Wikidata

Once you've created a lot of Wikipedia articles, it is useful to have some insights about them. How many biographies? How many articles about buildings? How many articles in the US? Using Wikidata and Xtools Created pages tool, I've build a small tool which analyse your list of created pages : https://observablehq.com/@pac02/look-at-your-list-of-created-articles-through-wikidata. I've a similar tool focused on gender : https://observablehq.com/@pac02/user-level-gender-statistics-for-wikipedia?collection=@pac02/pages-created. Your feedback is welcome. PAC2 (talk) 21:21, 14 February 2022 (UTC)