Talk:Kapampangan language

As correct as almost all the entries are

As correct as (almost) all the entries are, I feel it was rather careless of the author to have overlooked that the Latin letter Kk does not exist in Capampangan. C (as in English cat, not cease) and Qu take the /k/ sound--the earlier is used when the /k/ sound is used before the vowels /a/, /o/, and /u/ and the latter on /e/ and /i/; e.g. Ke is spelled Que; Kanaku, Canacu; Kekatamu, Quecatamu.

K does exist. I have seen many Kapampangans use it; the Qu/C is the traditional way. --Chris S. 12:11, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

!
I am very tempted to say "Just because 'many Kapampangans use it' does not mean it is correct." Though I must admit I was rather overbearing to say that it does not exist. It would have been better to say "Kk is not traditional." Perhaps a heavy influence from Tagalog.
I wonder, though, what the authentic capampangan alphabet dictates--does it include Kk ?

That's just the thing - there is no "official" way of writing Kapampangan. Using Qu/C is just as correct as using K. The K is used more and more as I have seen in publications like Ing Susi and Magaral Tang Kapampangan. Before Kapampangan adopted the Latin alphabet, it used Baybayin - and it had one symbol, K. Also, I plan on writing more about the alphabet. The article is far from finished - It's that I have been busy with school and work. --Chris S. 20:28, 27 October 2005 (UTC) 20:26, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

All this squabbling over orthography is frustrating for me as a learner and as a Kapampangan. First I have to find out whether the text I'm dealing with is written using Spanish or Philippine orthography. Then, if it's written using Spanish rules, I have to figure out whether there are glottal stops between vowels or not, and whether NG is pronounced as in sing or as in finger (because Spanish-spelling advocates themselves often omit the tilde, causing ambiguity). Given that the language itself is hard to learn (compared to a Filipino-speaker learning Cebuano and vice versa), teachers of Kapampangan (or capampañgan) could at least make it not harder for us, may we be Kapampangan or not. Ginoo.

Help with translation

I'm currently working on a script intended to create short articles on political parties on a variety of wikipedias simultaneously. However, in order for the technique to work I need help with translations to various languages. If you know any of the languages listed at User:Soman/Lang-Help, then please help by filling in the blanks. For example I need help with Kapampangam. Thanks, --Soman 15:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Philippine-type focus

Hi Y'all,

I have been meaning for a while to get around to looking at this page... and probably will be too busy for a long while to devote time to it (sigh).

There is quite a bit of discussion of "focus" on this page. The correct link is [[Austronesian alignment|Philippine-type focus]] system..

I'm thinking focus should have its own section, but that would involve re-arranging the entire discussion of verbs, and would require time...

Thanks --Ling.Nut 23:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

References to Malay?

A great article... congrats to all involved!

One thing that strikes me as missing though is that there is no mention of the very strong Malay roots in the Kapampangan language. There are so many words taken one for one from Malay with other words having undergone some transformation.

As to the K versus C debate... well of course its worth mentioning the fact that there is some debate over the use of K or C.... From what I've seen it seems to be more an issue to those who would rally against what they see as the growing influence of Tagalog culture and language.... Ironically modern Malay/Indonesian settled on using K, but all this is a relatively recent innovation anyway especially given the original Malay was written in its own Sanskrit style script and/or Arabic script. Examples still exist today with Javanese and Balinese still having their own Sanskrit style alphabets... Does anyone know if Kapampangan also had such a Sanskrit script or was it always just a spoken language? Mark P 60.240.93.67 19:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I cannot be 100% sure, but I don't think Malay is more closely related to Kapampangan than to other Austronesian languages of the Philipines. Is there any research that you know of? --Lgriot 08:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

We had a written language, it was called Kulitan, and had several other names that I just updated this article with, it was also an alphasyllabary, but had it's own calligraphy system as well.--70.134.77.134 (talk) 12:12, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Filipinas or Pilipinas?

I am confused about Filipinas and Pilipinas. In the Kapampangan wikipedia, it is 'Filipinas' but is there even an 'f' sound in Kapampangan? Vlag (talk) 00:35, 31 May 2008 (UTC)Vlag

Pilipinas is the correct term, However the Kapampangan Wikipedia is for the Kapampangans (natives) like me are used to "Filipinas" most of words in are our dialect (Kapampangan or Amanung Sisuan ) is influcence by Spaniards during Spanish Colonization. The Kapampangan Dialect have 3 version. SÚLAT BACÚLUD (Bacolor Script), commonly known as C&Q orthography with F, is the first Romanised orthography introduced by the Spaniards , SÚLAT WÁWÂ (Guagua Script), commonly known as K orthography. and ÁMUNG SAMSON'S HYBRID ORTHOGRAPHY which is being used. --Kixzer Franz710 ^(talk) 18:16, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

"using it lively"

...the Kapampangan people are now using it lively... This is not a native English expression. Possibly something like "actively using it" or "making an effort to use it" is what is meant? Koro Neil (talk) 07:43, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Chinese Loan Words Section

Unless you know how to write them in their original Chinese script, please don't add them. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Siuala (talk • contribs) 20:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Etymology of the names of certain towns

What does these names mean in Kapampangan?
-Morong
-Taytay
-Binangonan
-Angono
-Caloocan
-Tanay
-Balintawak
-Norzagaray
-Gapan
-Antipolo
-Balanga
-Marikina
-Cainta
Kasumi-genx (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:22, 1 August 2009 (UTC).

Kasumi-genx - As far as I know, only Morong and Balanga are place-names that are Kapampangan or of Kapampangan origin. All of the rest are Tagalog place-names (obviously Caloocan, which means innermost area). I am not skilled in Kapampangan, but I've given enough info, that's all. - Aki (talk; contributions) October 13, 2016, 04:42 P.M. (PST).

Someone is making wrong references to our writing system

Someone had linked the "Matuang Kudlitan" on the article, in reference to our writing system, but it was linking to baybayin, which is sulat tagalog, and a diiferent writing system. I had fixed this error, but now I feel that Kulitan, our writing system, should have an entire article of it's own, infact im surprised nobody has made one yet.--70.134.77.134 (talk) 12:21, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Translations

I updated some of the translations. "Midnight" was translated before as "galingaldo" which is incorrect, since the correct word for it is "kapitangan bengi" and "galingaldo" is translated as the hour/s before daybreak. I also added "sisilim" which is dusk. Does anybody know the kapampangan word for dawn?Tsinitoboy (talk) 08:56, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Name

ISO has Pampanga, with Kapampangan added in 2007. Ethn. has Pampangan, with alts Kapampangan, Pampango, Pampangueño. Pampanga is the province. Which name is used for the people? — kwami (talk) 18:54, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Goodday kwami (talk) I am a native in from Pampanga. We are called Kapampangans. --Kixzer Franz710 ^(talk) 16:01, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Is it Kapampángan or Capampáñgan? Help us somehow discover a means to resolve it.

For the past sixty years, there exists an ongoing debate on what orthographic system should be used to properly represent the Kapampángan Language.Up to the present, the debate has become an emotional issue and not an intellectual one. Open and present the issue to outside experts (nonKapampángans)so as to receive suggestions on a possible resolution at an intellectual and not an emotional level.

http://www.silinternational.org/asia/philippines/ical/papers/pangilinan-Dispute%20on%20Orthography.pdf#search=%22siuala%22/

You can click the link to understand current status of the Kapampángan Language and Literature we have four sets of ROMANIZED ATTITUDINAL PROCEDURES in the Kapampángan writing system.

a. the Spanish style orthography, also known as TUTÛNG KAPAMPÁNGAN ‘genuine Kapampángan’, SÚLAT BACÚLUD ‘Bacolor Script’, OLD ORTHOGRAPHY,or simply Q AMPÓNG C ‘Q and C’.

b. the ABAKADA, also known as SÚLAT WÁWÂ ‘Guagua Script’, NEW ORTHOGRAPHY, the Akademyang Kapampángan’s ORIGINAL KAPAMPANGAN ORTHOGRAPHY, or AKADEMYA.

c. Venancio Samson’s HYBRID ORTHOGRAPHY or ÁMUNG SAMSON.

d. The Batiáuan Revised Orthography, also known as SÚLAT WÁWÂ A ALÂNG WA ‘Guagua Script without the W’, or simply BATIÁUAN.

Any Comments --Kixzer Franz710 ^(talk) 20:12, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Not sure what you're asking. It's not our place to decide which form the Kapampangan should use. — kwami (talk) 20:46, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry as a native Kapampangan, I myself is still not certain which one to use. If i will choose it will be based on emotional preference as well, just like other natives, (my mom is from Guagua). just asking comments on non Kapampángans on intellectual basis to get suggestions on orthography can be used more effectively. Just gathering suggestions. I am working on a online Kapampangan dictionary this one issue that I can't seem to choose which use because of this unresolved issue on orthography. We don't have a standard orthography.--Kixzer Franz710 ^(talk) 01:10, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't remember ever seeing "Capampañgan" in English, but that is probably irrelevant to your concern. — kwami (talk) 09:00, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

The so called themselves "Purist Capampangan" insist on using C and Q up to this date since they believe that this is the original. ( original is the Kulitan ) You can google the word "Capampangan" there are alot of sites insist on this. I myself is used to using HYBRID ORTHOGRAPHY and dont use K and but use W. Any comments is welcome since I see your opinion as non bias. --Kixzer Franz710 ^(talk) 14:55, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Vocabulario Pampango-Tagalog-Inglés (Kapampangan, Tagalog, and English Vocabulary)

Vocabulario Pampango-Tagalog-Inglés [microform] (1910)

https://archive.org/details/aqh7543.0001.001.umich.edu

Vocabulario Pampango-Tagalog-Inglés : compendio del Tagalog-Castellano-Inglés (1914)

https://archive.org/details/aaw9129.0001.001.umich.edu

Rajmaan (talk) 20:24, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Relates languages

It is interesting, that Bahasa Indonesia, the official Indonesian language is closer to Kapampangan than any other Filipino language. 05 2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.191.40.139 (talk) 14:20, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Visayan languages which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:44, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 2 September 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: NO CONSENSUS even after relisting.Tiggerjay (talk) Tiggerjay (talk) 20:45, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

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(non-admin closure)

Kapampangan language → Pampango language – WP:COMMONNAME. Pampango language is the common name in English reliable sources. See Ngram where "Kapampangan language" doesn't even appear in the graph. I know Kapampangan is the local term for the people and its language, but since this is the English Wikipedia, we use the English common name. Hence Cebuano language not Sugbuanon language and Ilocano language not Ilokano language. RioHondo (talk) 04:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 05:33, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

• Comment Languages are very often referred to as "Xyz" not just "Xyz language". For example, "in Kapampangan" is slightly more common than "in Pampango" in recent years, though the reverse is true for older books [1]. (The first several pages of Google Books results for "in Kapampangan" are all about the language [2], suggesting that the Ngrams results aren't just mishits for non-language-related phrases like "in Kapampangan culture"). So in fact both names are well-used in English (and the usage of the latter has actually declined since 1990). 58.176.246.42 (talk) 05:30, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Here's the real test for identifying which between Kapampangan and Pampango is more commonly used in English. Since indigenous Philippine languages are named after their ethnic groups, see Kapampangans vs. Pampangos. (which will be up for RM next).--RioHondo (talk) 05:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

• Strong oppose WP:COMMONNAME. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 20:33, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Common name in Filipino and most local languages, I know, including Taglish, but this barely pronouncable word "Kapampangan" appears to be not as common as simply "Pampango" in English based on the links above.--RioHondo (talk) 01:33, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
• Comment @RioHondo: This is a name I have wondered about for years and never resolved. Could you explain the etymologies and uses of the two forms? It seems that it's pampang plus the locative circumfix ka- -an. Thus it is not specifically a language or ethnic name. In my small experience, the ka- -an form has been more common for the language, but that's a highly skewed impression. The OED also has "Pampangan". Is Pampango the Spanish form?

Added the English pronunciation. — kwami (talk) 01:38, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

• • Well, first, like all indigenous languages in the Philippines, the language is named after the people using it, the Pampangos or in Pampango/Filipino language, the Kapampangan. Both terms equally apply to both the language and people so that it is perfectly normal to say I am Pampango/Kapampangan and I speak Pampango/Kapampangan. Etymology-wise, this is similar to Tagalog (people and language) in that it also has something to do with an ethnic group's river location ("Pampang" means "river bank" while "Ilog" in Taga-iLog means simply "river"). And just like the Tagalog word Katagalugan, Kapampangan is no more than a localized term for it. And yes, Pampango is also the original Spanish term which, like all other local terms and names of places and peoples in the Philippines (e.g, Filipino, Cebuano, Ilocano, Cordilleran, Moro, etc), were adopted by the Americans when they took over, and made English. So again, since this is the English WP, we should use English names. e.g, Tagalog Republic not Republika ng Katagalugan. Tagalog not Katagalugan. Pampango not Kapampangan. Hope that helps.--RioHondo (talk) 02:03, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Re: Pampangan — see Cebuan. May be English, but certainly not widely heard nor used compared to the Spanish form which American writers preferred using for most of their territories acquired from the Spanish, and which was also adopted by Philippine English writers eventually.--RioHondo (talk) 02:37, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Haven't decided. Left an announcement at WP:LANG. — kwami (talk) 02:41, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I have also requested moving the people article at Talk:Kapampangan people#Requested move 3 September 2015 if you're interested. Cheers!--RioHondo (talk) 02:56, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

• Support, though perhaps to Pampanga or Pampangan (with the English rather than the Tagalog -an). The ISO code is pam, Kapampangan and Pampanga are both ISO names, with Kapampangan added as an "additional name" in 2007. The Ethnologue name is Pampangan. The Glottolog name is Pampanga. A rather extensive general language bibliography I checked has the following titles that include the name:

Bergaño, Diego. (1916 [1729]) Arte de la lengua Pampanga. 3rd edn. Manila: Colegio de Santo Tomás.

Clardy, Catherine Jane. (1958) Pampango phonology. University of Texas at Austin doctoral dissertation.

Forman, Michael L. (1971) Kapampangan Grammar Notes (Pali Language Texts: Philippines). Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press.

Gonzales, Andrew. (1981) Pampangan: Towards a Meaning-based Description (Pacific Linguistics: Series C 48). Canberra: Research School of Pacific and Asian Studies, Australian National University.

Gonzalez, Andrew. (1971) Outline of a generative semantic description of Pampangan. University of California at Berkeley doctoral dissertation.

Mirikitani, Leatrice T. (1972) Kapampangan Syntax (Oceanic Linguistics Special Publications 10). Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press.

Richards, Charles M. (1971) A case grammar of Pampangan. University of California at Los Angeles doctoral dissertation.

Both forms are commonly used, but Pampangan has both a longer history and is approximately equally common today. Kitano, who wrote the article in ELL2, uses Kampampangan and gives Pampangan rather than Pampango as the alt. Etymology and perhaps WP:CONCISE favor Pampango/Pampanga/Pampangan. — kwami (talk) 02:58, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Comment. "Pampangan language" and "Pampanga language" are recognizable and decent English alternative names to "Pampango language" which is still more common.1. Pampango is not only common, but is also more identifiable to speakers of that language which are spread across multiple provinces and locations, and which may view the term "Pampangan" as either neologism or something that relates to the modern province of Pampanga. It is also a deviation from the standard lowland Philippine ethnonyms and language names in English: Filipino, Cebuano, Ilocano, Boholano, etc. But anyway, "Kapampangan language" stays as the local language translation as it should be.--RioHondo (talk) 04:48, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, "Pampango" is more WP:CONSISTENT. I would support any of the three. — kwami (talk) 05:10, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

• • Strong oppose Redirect variations to the native name. --Filipinayzd (talk) 18:30, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Based on what policy or guideline? — kwami (talk) 21:31, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME Google search engine has 954,000 results for "kapampangan" over 214,000 results for "Pampango" or 331,000 results for "Pampangan". --Filipinayzd (talk) 04:54, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Comment. The native name stays as the native name, here and especially in your own language project. But this is English WP and we have to use common English names and translations for your native name.--RioHondo (talk) 06:24, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

And as I said in the other RM, what we're dealing with here is an academic topic, so I used Google Books in determining which between the two forms, the native Kapampangan or the English Pampango is more used by scholarly sources to refer to this language. IMO, Using Google Books is more reliable as it searches for the use of the terms in formal and academic English, and weeds out results for popular but Taglish, colloquial or pure local language uses like Pinoy or Pilipino for Filipino, Sugbuanon or Bisaya for Cebuano or Visayan, Boricua for Puerto Ricans or Magyarok for Hungarians. I am a Filipino btw, but I know my English from my Tagalog. (I don't do code-switch in English like Taglish). I know when to use Kapampangan or Katagalugan and when to use Pampango or Tagalog.--RioHondo (talk) 06:24, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

• • Strong oppose

If "Kapampangan" is to be replaced, what should replace it? "Kapampangan" has become widely accepted, even among those using the "c/q" orthography. And if another term is to replace it, why not "Pampangan," which is used by Ethnologue: https://www.ethnologue.com/language/pam "Pampangan A language of the Philippines" And if we are to be consistent, and "Kapampangan" is to be replaced by "Pampango," I move that "Tagalog" is also to be replaced by "Tagalo," the Spanish-derived equivalent of "Pampango," or "Tagal," it's English-derivation, which was used in the early American period. Katimawan2005 (talk) 05:14, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

• Err we are not changing the name of this language. You are free to continue calling your language by any name, but as much as people from France wants to call their language Français language, it is still French in English. Again, this is the English WP where we use English common names, not Taglish or whatever you think is English, it just isn't. 1--RioHondo (talk) 06:36, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose As noted, "Kapampangan" has now become widely accepted even in English. Holy Angels University's Center for Kapampangan Studies uses "Kapampangan" in its English name and not "Center for Pampangan Studies" or "Center for Pampango Studies". Also, the use of English names in the Wikipedia is not absolute, there are cases where the native name is used even when an English counterpart exists -- like for example the articles on Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, Patriarch Alexy I of Moscow, and Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow all of which use the Russian forms "Kirill" and "Alexy" instead of the English forms "Cyril" and "Alexius". Or the Maronite Patriarchs Sfeir and al-Rahi which use Nasrallah Boutros Sfeir and Bechara Boutros al-Rahi instead of "Nasrallah Peter Sfeir" or "Bechara Peter al-Rahi". Or the Coptic Orthodox Pope Tawadros II of Alexandria which uses "Tawadros" instead of "Pope Theodore II of Alexandria" --Harvzsf (talk) 11:21, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree that many native names have become common in English but I believe this is not one of them, especially if the term only became widespread in Philippine English in recent years, and specifically becoming WP:OFFICIAL with its ISO registration only in 2007? An internal WP search for the term also yields many good results suggesting that it is really commonly used even here. English writers have been referring to this language as Pampango for centuries as the Ngram viewer shows.--RioHondo (talk) 11:46, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

See also English common name for speakers of this language: 1.--RioHondo (talk) 11:58, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

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kumaen kana

kumaen kana 124.105.205.232 (talk) 06:19, 3 June 2022 (UTC)