Talk:Union Pacific 4014

"reacquired"?

Does anyone know the exact circumstances of UP's "reacquisition" of Big Boy 4014? Was it a simple purchase? Or maybe UP donated other surplus equipment in trade? Elsquared (talk) 08:42, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I understand that it was a trade, UP apparently traded a caboose (one of the bay window kind if I recall correctly) and a emd locomotive in exchange for 4014. I think that was in the sources for the article, but I wouldn't swear to it. TomStar81 (Talk) 02:25, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Relocated content

Content relocated this date from Union Pacific Big Boy page. Anything not redundant here may be integrated at this page:

===Restoration of 4014===

In late 2012, Union Pacific announced that it was interested in acquiring a Big Boy to be restored and then operated in excursion service.

On July 23, 2013 Union Pacific announced that it has acquired 4014 from The Southern California Chapter of The Railway and Locomotive Historical Society in Pomona, California. Union Pacific began inspecting and preparing to move 4014 from Pomona to Union Pacific's Steam Shop in Cheyenne, Wyoming in August 2013. Movement commenced on 14 November.

As of November 12, 2013 U.P. Heritage Fleet Operations director Ed Dickens reported via his official YouTube channel that UP4014 was prepared for the move, and track laying was in progress. Several issues delayed the connection of the display track to the temporary rails. Crews used creative and classic methods, including plywood supports and "dutchman compromise joints" to solve uneven surfaces, a 1% grade, and several difficult curves.

On the morning of January 26, 2014, UPP 4014 (recently re-numbered on the U.P. active locomotive roster so as to avoid confusion with UP 4014, a diesel locomotive) was pulled out of the Los Angeles County Fairplex by a 4,300 horsepower Union Pacific diesel locomotive. The Big Boy left UP's West Colton yard on its journey to Cheyenne, Wyoming on April 28, 2014 and arrived in Cheyenne on May 8, 2014.

Now back in Cheyenne, Union Pacific's Heritage Fleet Operations team is restoring 4014 to operating condition, which is expected to take three to five years. As part of the restoration process, Union Pacific will convert 4014 from coal to more efficient No. 5 oil firing.

Wikiuser100 (talk) 21:25, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

References

I've recently did alot of adjustments made to the links, so there are no more redundancies at all. :)

Trains13 (talk) 22:05, 03 May 2019 (UTC)

'Currently'

Union Pacific 4014 is currently in Union Pacific's Steam Shop in Cheyenne, Wyoming, awaiting extensive restoration work which is intended to return the engine to operational status.

– Unless someone's updating daily, "currently" should not be used in an encyclopedia article, as the reference could become outdated at any time.

Apparently, this was the status of UP 4014 in May 2014. Has it changed since then? We don't know.

Sentence rewritten to remove time element. Sca (talk) 14:47, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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This can't be right

Hmm; this can't be right: "With the completion of the restoration, No. 4014 became the world's largest operational steam locomotive, displacing Union Pacific No. 3985, which was the largest operational steam locomotive in the world from 1981 to 2010." If No. 3985 lost its claim in 2010, then some other locomotive must have taken it — and therefore No. 4014 didn't displace 3985 but that other locomotive. Do we know what it was? PRRfan (talk) 16:59, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Don't know exactly what took its place. My best guess is that 844 might have took its place for some time because it was the largest 4-8-4 locomotive until Norfolk and Western 611 was restored. N&W 611 then became the largest 4-8-4, and possibly the largest. However, it wasn't ever announced which locomotive became the largest after 3985 was taken down, but I guess 3985 was technically still considered the largest until UP 4014 took over.--Davidng913 (talk) 21:04, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Presuming the source given in the 3985 article and in this article are one in the same then the author would be Union Pacific, in which case in the absence of 3985 due to maintenance issues and the prioritizing of 4014's restoration the phantom locomotive holding the record would be 844 since that's the only other steam engine operated by the Union Pacific 'Steam Engine Group' (such as it were). It's technically correct...if we assume that the other steam engines in use on the US are not being operated in any official interstate traffic role, but I do agree that the information could be tightened up some. TomStar81 (Talk) 01:10, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Time for Cleanup and Updating

Well, with the restoration of Union Pacific 4014 finally finished, this page is starting to become a mess, and a cleanup tahh jas finally been applied. This is the biggest problem, as read from the tag: Reads like fan page; Not the News; Introduction of trivia; non reliable refs.

All non-reliable references should be replaced with newer ones as soon as possibe. Trivia should be taken away, but I think trip descriptions should be kept. This also needs to be rewritten somehow as this is NOT a fan page. Don't ask me about the meaning of Not the News because that has really thrown me off: either it means that this is being written like the news, or the references are not from the news.

Also, if anyone can, PLEASE get pictures of 4014 under steam. Some dude tried to cheat his way into doing this by taking a screenshot of a YouTube video and uploading it onto Wikimedia Commons. I have since tagged it for deletion. The more pictures we have of the locomotive under steam, the better the quality on Commons will be. This would also be an opportunity to have a picture of the locomotive under steam to replace the current picture in the info box, which shows the locomotive on display.

Please edit accordingly, and TAKE YOUR OWN PICS! Unless the file on Flickr or elsewhere is freely licensed (I didn't spot any yet), do not trick Commons into thinking that a pic is yours when it is not because it will get deleted. A few YouTube videos that are freely licensed have already been uploaded, but I am still looking for pictures.

Thank you all.

--Davidng913 (talk) 21:12, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Your points about better references and photos are well-taken, and thanks. But as one of the folks who's done substantial editing recently, particularly *in response to* the cleanup tag, I confess I'm not sure what you mean by "this page is starting to become a mess". I don't think it reads like a fan page, nor do I think much trivia remains. Could you explain what you mean, perhaps with examples? PRRfan (talk) 16:08, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

You will have to ask GenQuest about that. I wasn’t the one who tagged it, and honestly I don’t understand the news part. It looks more like a proper article than a fan page for sure, and there is not that much trivia either. So you should ask him for clarification. --Davidng913 (talk) 19:36, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I wasn't asking about the tag, but about your "this page is starting to become a mess". In any case, it sounds like maybe you think the piece is in better shape now. I propose we remove the tag. PRRfan (talk) 21:21, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

We are in luck now, as it has since been removed after a major cleanup. As of now, I did find someone from Flickr who will be willing to allow me to upload their photo onto Wikimedia. I just need to ask him to change the license first. Hopefully, more pictures of the locomotive under steam will soon show up, whether from Flickr or uploaded onto Commons directly. --Davidng913 (talk) 22:07, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Removed: Design section

Bold edit: there's nothing in this article's Design section that's unique to No. 4014, and it's all covered at Union Pacific Big Boy. I've moved the text here in case anyone wants to argue for its partial or full restoration:

The Big Boy class was developed by Union Pacific (UP) and the American Locomotive Company (ALCO) to handle the 1.14% eastbound ruling grade of the Wasatch Range.[6] UP determined that its goals for the new class could be achieved by making several changes to the existing 4-6-6-4 Challenger design: enlarging the firebox to about 235 by 96 inches (5.97 m × 2.44 m) (about 155 sq ft or 14.4 m2), lengthening the boiler, adding four driving wheels, and reducing the diameter of the driving wheels from 69 to 68 in (1,753 to 1,727 mm).

The Big Boy was articulated like the Mallet locomotive design, although without compounding. It was designed for stability at 80 miles per hour (130 km/h), allowing for a wide margin of reliability and safety, as steam locomotives normally operated well below that speed in freight service. Peak horsepower was reached around 35 mph (56 km/h); optimal tractive effort was reached around 10 mph (16 km/h). It is longer than two city buses and weighs more than a Boeing 747.

PRRfan (talk) 20:35, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I feel like the section should stay. Even though it is mostly covered in the Big Boy page, it’s still a good a idea for readers on this page to also know about the design. Davidng913 (talk) 14:36, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Song

This might be considered trivia, but here's a RS article: https://journalstar.com/news/local/union-pacific-big-boy-locomotive-songs-success-surprises-lincoln-creator/article_aa2d1871-49a5-5ac4-8b67-3eadb73ec6c4.html (August 18, 2021) Mapsax (talk) 00:36, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Union Pacific 4014/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 03:53, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Very good work for a first GA, Trains13. 7-day hold to tidy up some things. Ping me when done. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:41, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

I've adjusted the info as you requested and I've also added one news article link about 4014 visiting the St. Paul Union Station. Trains13 (talk) 16:08, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Copy changes

Lead

• Link Union Pacific in the first sentence.
• The second lead paragraph suffers from proseline style; the sentences all start with "In (year)". More variety would be helpful. A couple of places in the body could use this.

History

• Consider disbanding this level-2 header and promoting the four level-3 headers to level 2, as this is the only level-2 content header.
• Several areas need GEOCOMMAs. e.g. ...between Ogden, Utah and Evanston, Wyoming with...
• On February 6, 2019, No. 4014's boiler passed a hydrostatic test and the locomotive was successfully test fired on April 9. This needs a comma after the first "test" (User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences), and I'd also use "test-fired" (hyphenated).
• No. 4014 subsequently made two tours on its own, the first through the Midwestern United States, including brief stops at Saint Paul Union Depot and the Lake Superior Railroad Museum, from July 8 to August 8; and the second through the Southwestern United States from September 27 to November 26. This shows as an unwieldy sentence if you strip away all those reference tags. Perhaps No. 4014 subsequently made two tours on its own. From July 8 to August 8, it visited the Midwestern United States, including brief stops at Saint Paul Union Depot and the Lake Superior Railroad Museum; it then toured the Southwestern United States from September 27 to November 26.

Sourcing and spot checks

Earwig turns up mostly organizational names and formulations like "RailGiants Train Museum in Pomona, California". No issues.

Nine references were chosen for spot checks. No issues were found.

• 2: A press release, used for some of the information in the infobox. This is basically ABOUTSELF.
• 3: Unsure what this is used for, maybe definitions? It's hard to discern because of the use case.
• 15: Trains story on locomotive renumbering for Big Boy to reassume 4014.
• 17: Trains story on UP looking to acquire a Big Boy for excursion service.
• 27: Wyoming Tribune Eagle story notes attention mostly diverted to 844. Also notes that cranes had to be brought in, which I guess verifies the claim in the article.
• 28: AP article. This should have "agency" set to "Associated Press" in the citation template but is fine otherwise.
• 39: No waiver needed to run 11,000 miles of steam, per Trains.
• 50: Donation of 3985 to RMHA. It's a press release, but it at least confirms the point.
• 66: Announcement of (canceled) steam tour. Again, ABOUTSELF.

Images and other items

• The images are freely licensed, but alt text is encouraged for all of them.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 02:49, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Union Pacific 4014

• ... that Union Pacific 4014 (pictured) is the only Big Boy locomotive operating in the United States since 2019? Source: https://www.up.com/cs/groups/public/@uprr/@newsinfo/documents/up_pdf_nativedocs/pdf_up_media_4014_fact_sheet.pdf
  • Reviewed:

Created by Trains13 (talk). Self-nominated at 02:39, 17 November 2022 (UTC).

• Comment I suggest the following alts:

• ALT1: ... that Union Pacific 4014 (pictured) is the world's largest operational steam locomotive?
• ALT2: ... that Union Pacific 4014 (pictured) was returned to operation in 2019, 60 years after it last ran? Trainsandotherthings (talk) 14:26, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: @Trains13: Good article. However, I can't seem to verify hooks 0 and 1. Could you provide a source to verify it? Onegreatjoke (talk) 14:19, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke: ALT1 is verified by [1] and [2]. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 14:25, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

@Trainsandotherthings: I am still not able to verify the first hook that the train is the only big boy locomotive in operation. Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:40, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Ping the nominator regarding that hook. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:27, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, that I didn't reply, here's the source that I've found suitable: [3] Trains13 (talk) 20:38, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Since I can verify that, approve. Onegreatjoke (talk) 16:40, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

power output

The infobox says power output of 7000 HP "at cylinder", which is a meaningless statement. Is this intended to be cylinder horsepower, which is a calculated value based on the cylinder dimensions, valve dimensions, and boiler pressure? Or indicated horsepower, which is a value obtained by measuring the pressures in the cylinder during the stroke? Either way, 7000 sounds too low - the Big Boy recorded 6290 drawbar horsepower with a dynomometer car, which would correspond to around 7500 indicated horsepower and a tad more cylinder horsepower. In general cylinder horsepower (and boiler horsepower) are only relevant to locomotive designers; in the steam era horsepower was almost always given as indicated or drawbar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:589:300:C7C0:99AF:B68:B4A6:4D79 (talk) 23:37, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

probably worth noting that the 6290 drawbar horsepower is from Huddlestone's book, which is a little shaky on technical details. Given that the Big Boys were known as poor steamers, it would be interesting to know how long that power output was maintained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.227.37 (talk) 19:12, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Should future excursion plans be in an encyclopedia?

"In April 2024, plans have been announced for No. 4014's first of two tours in 2024. The first tour will take place during the summer with stops in Roseville, California on July 12 and 13; Ogden, Utah on July 20 and 21, with No. 4014 scheduled to leave Cheyenne on June 30. The second tour is being planned for the fall with stops in the states of Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, and Illinois, among others. It has also been reported that siding improvements are being made in the state of Idaho, which should increase the chance of No. 4014 operating another tour in the Pacific Northwest, likely in Boise, Idaho and Portland, Oregon, sometime next year in 2025."

This is all well and good for an announcement board or 4014 fan site, but I think it's getting a bit ahead of its skis for an encyclopedia. What do others think? PRRfan (talk) 16:01, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree, not suitable. At most, maybe something like, as of 2024, future excursions are planned.--Dmol (talk) 20:41, 6 May 2024 (UTC)