Talk:Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory: Difference between revisions
Acroterion (talk | contribs) Reverted 1 edit by 2600:1014:B130:ECC2:3C24:4E7:B5BB:1210 (talk): Not a forum for partisan gripes |
|||
Line 69: | Line 69: | ||
:::[[WP:AGF]] [[WP:CIV]] You need to stop personal attacks against editors with whom you disagree. Comment on content -- not on editors. [[User:Objective3000|O3000, Ret.]] ([[User talk:Objective3000|talk]]) 00:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC) |
:::[[WP:AGF]] [[WP:CIV]] You need to stop personal attacks against editors with whom you disagree. Comment on content -- not on editors. [[User:Objective3000|O3000, Ret.]] ([[User talk:Objective3000|talk]]) 00:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC) |
||
::: Those words are accurate descriptions from RS. We do not censor RS or whitewash content. Your gripe is with reliable sources, not with the myriad editors of all political persuasions who worked together, and discussed those words, to create this article. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) ('''''[[Help:Notifications|<span style="color:#0bf">PING me</span>]]''''') 00:52, 19 June 2024 (UTC) |
::: Those words are accurate descriptions from RS. We do not censor RS or whitewash content. Your gripe is with reliable sources, not with the myriad editors of all political persuasions who worked together, and discussed those words, to create this article. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) ('''''[[Help:Notifications|<span style="color:#0bf">PING me</span>]]''''') 00:52, 19 June 2024 (UTC) |
||
::You are biased and should recuse yourself from this subject. [[Special:Contributions/209.54.4.42|209.54.4.42]] ([[User talk:209.54.4.42|talk]]) 06:27, 10 July 2024 (UTC) |
|||
* '''Oppose'''. Not when RS say it. We document the facts. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) ('''''[[Help:Notifications|<span style="color:#0bf">PING me</span>]]''''') 01:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC) |
* '''Oppose'''. Not when RS say it. We document the facts. -- [[User:Valjean|Valjean]] ([[User talk:Valjean|talk]]) ('''''[[Help:Notifications|<span style="color:#0bf">PING me</span>]]''''') 01:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC) |
||
*'''Oppose''', we follow what the reliable sources have to say. What your mate feels about having reality shown to them is highly irrelevant. ''[[User:TarnishedPath|<b style="color:#ff0000;">Tar</b><b style="color:#ff7070;">nis</b><b style="color:#ffa0a0;">hed</b><b style="color:#420000;">Path</b>]]''<sup>[[User talk:TarnishedPath|<b style="color:#bd4004;">talk</b>]]</sup> 07:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC) |
*'''Oppose''', we follow what the reliable sources have to say. What your mate feels about having reality shown to them is highly irrelevant. ''[[User:TarnishedPath|<b style="color:#ff0000;">Tar</b><b style="color:#ff7070;">nis</b><b style="color:#ffa0a0;">hed</b><b style="color:#420000;">Path</b>]]''<sup>[[User talk:TarnishedPath|<b style="color:#bd4004;">talk</b>]]</sup> 07:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC) |
Revision as of 06:27, 10 July 2024
Before requesting any edits to this protected article, please familiarise yourself with reliable sourcing requirements. Before posting an edit request on this talk page, please read the reliable sourcing and original research policies. These policies require that information in Wikipedia articles be supported by citations from reliable independent sources, and disallow your personal views, observations, interpretations, analyses, or anecdotes from being used. Only content verified by subject experts and other reliable sources may be included, and uncited material may be removed without notice. If your complaint is about an assertion made in the article, check first to see if your proposed change is supported by reliable sources. If it is not, it is highly unlikely that your request will be granted. Checking the archives for previous discussions may provide more information. Requests which do not provide citations from reliable sources, or rely on unreliable sources, may be subject to closure without any other response. |
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Template:WikiProject Donald Trump
Template:WikiProject Joe Biden
|
On 14 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Joe Biden–Viktor Shokin–Burisma conspiracy theory. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Lev Parnas testimony
It's about time to update this article and those mentioned here (sources below). Lev Parnas has named multiple parties who knowingly peddled Russian lies about Joe Biden: The GOP, Fox News and a few other right-wing media groups, Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Devin Nunes, Pete Sessions, Ron Johnson, John Solomon, and Sean Hannity.
Some sources, with properly formatted refs, ready for use:
- Lev Parnas, ex-Giuliani associate, testified allegations against Bidens are false and 'spread by the Kremlin'[1]
- Comer Keeps Stepping In It as Impeachment Witness Dishes Dirt on Giuliani[2]
- Written Statement of Lev Parnas, March 19, 2024[3]
Political strategist Rachel Bitecofer wrote: "House Republicans knew their source was a Russian asset, the same House Republicans did the same thing during the Ukraine blackmail impeachment where intel told them their info was Russian disinformation but they used it anyway." She described Republicans as "a national security risk".
Pings: Soibangla, Muboshgu, Zaathras, Victorgrigas, KiharaNoukan, Darknipples -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- His testimony was relevant to this page. What do you propose to add? – Muboshgu (talk) 16:40, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- I now see that Soibangla has already added something good to the Parnas article, and that might be good here. I'll let Soibangla do it. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:22, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Here is that addition to the Lev Parnas article (I have tweaked the ref format and added a wikilink):
At the invitation of committee Democrats, on March 20, 2024, Lev Parnas testified before the House Oversight Committee investigation into the Biden family that was pursuing the impeachment of President Joe Biden. Parnas testified, in part:[4]
The American people have been lied to, by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and various cohorts of individuals in government and media positions. They created falsehoods to serve their own interests knowing it would undermine the strength of our nation ... Congressman Pete Sessions, then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson and many others understood they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity and media personnel, particularly with Fox News, who used this narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 elections. Sadly, they are still doing this today as we approach the 2024 elections ... The only information ever pushed on the Bidens and Ukraine has come from one source and one source only: Russia and Russian agents.
This might be good here. I'll install it. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
With added references it looks like this:
At the invitation of committee Democrats, on March 20, 2024, Lev Parnas testified before the House Oversight Committee investigation into the Biden family that was pursuing the impeachment of President Joe Biden.[1][2][3] Parnas testified, in part:[4]
The American people have been lied to, by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and various cohorts of individuals in government and media positions. They created falsehoods to serve their own interests knowing it would undermine the strength of our nation ... Congressman Pete Sessions, then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson and many others understood they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity and media personnel, particularly with Fox News, who used this narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 elections. Sadly, they are still doing this today as we approach the 2024 elections ... The only information ever pushed on the Bidens and Ukraine has come from one source and one source only: Russia and Russian agents.
Valjean (talk) (PING me) 06:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ a b Fitzpatrick, Sarah; Concepcion, Summer (March 20, 2024). "Lev Parnas, ex-Giuliani associate, testified allegations against Bidens are false and 'spread by the Kremlin'". NBC News. Retrieved March 21, 2024.
- ^ a b Rohrlich, Justin (March 20, 2024). "Comer Keeps Stepping In It as Impeachment Witness Dishes Dirt on Giuliani". The Daily Beast. Retrieved March 21, 2024.
- ^ a b Parnas, Lev (March 19, 2024). "Written Statement of Lev Parnas, March 19, 2024" (PDF). House Oversight Committee. Retrieved March 21, 2024.
- ^ a b Walsh, Sheri (March 20, 2024). "At House impeachment inquiry hearing, key witness Lev Parnas blasts Republicans for pushing 'falsehoods'". UPI. Retrieved March 22, 2024.
Suggest removing “false” from opening sentence
I referred a friend of mine who supports Trump to this article. He noted that the first sentence says “false accusations”. He sees this as revealing bias in the article. I think removing the word “false” from the first sentence would reduce any resistance to accepting the rest of the article (which clearly documents that the allegations are false). 98.97.92.82 (talk) 14:59, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
- The first paragraph of any article on Wikipedia is a summary of the sourced content of the remainder of the article. So if the body of the sourced content emphatically says something is false, as supported in reliable sources, then the lead should reflect that. Whether somebody wishes to disbelieve the article isn't Wikipedia's problem. Acroterion (talk) 18:30, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
- Support. The problem is the political bias. The words "false" and "conspiracy theory", both in the lead, show such bias and should be removed. Fx6893 (talk) 01:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- No we will not be making changes, as the Wikipedia follows reliable sources. Also, consider widening your friend circle. Zaathras (talk) 01:51, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- The term "conspiracy theory" is defined as having a derogatory connotation (see Wiktionary, for example). Employing derogatory terms in the lead reveals the bias of the editors and their attempts to disparage those with differing views, similar to your personal remarks about the commenter's friends. It's politically motivated bullying, and erodes the credibility of the encyclopedia. Fx6893 (talk) 00:29, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- WP:AGF WP:CIV You need to stop personal attacks against editors with whom you disagree. Comment on content -- not on editors. O3000, Ret. (talk) 00:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Those words are accurate descriptions from RS. We do not censor RS or whitewash content. Your gripe is with reliable sources, not with the myriad editors of all political persuasions who worked together, and discussed those words, to create this article. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 00:52, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- You are biased and should recuse yourself from this subject. 209.54.4.42 (talk) 06:27, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- The term "conspiracy theory" is defined as having a derogatory connotation (see Wiktionary, for example). Employing derogatory terms in the lead reveals the bias of the editors and their attempts to disparage those with differing views, similar to your personal remarks about the commenter's friends. It's politically motivated bullying, and erodes the credibility of the encyclopedia. Fx6893 (talk) 00:29, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Not when RS say it. We document the facts. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, we follow what the reliable sources have to say. What your mate feels about having reality shown to them is highly irrelevant. TarnishedPathtalk 07:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- C-Class Ukraine articles
- Low-importance Ukraine articles
- WikiProject Ukraine articles
- C-Class politics articles
- Low-importance politics articles
- C-Class American politics articles
- Mid-importance American politics articles
- American politics task force articles
- WikiProject Politics articles
- C-Class Skepticism articles
- Low-importance Skepticism articles
- WikiProject Skepticism articles
- C-Class Alternative Views articles
- Low-importance Alternative Views articles
- WikiProject Alternative Views articles
- C-Class United States articles
- Low-importance United States articles
- C-Class United States articles of Low-importance
- C-Class U.S. Presidents articles
- Low-importance U.S. Presidents articles
- WikiProject U.S. Presidents articles
- C-Class United States Government articles
- Low-importance United States Government articles
- WikiProject United States Government articles
- WikiProject United States articles
- C-Class International relations articles
- Low-importance International relations articles
- WikiProject International relations articles
- Wikipedia articles that use American English