Talk:Ron Paul

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Length

This article is just way too long for the subject. Ron Paul is still a relative fringe candidate, with minimal chances of winning the Republican nomination, and was only truly relevant on such a scale recently. This page reeks of recentism, among other things. I'm going to go through the article and try and remove as much useless information as I can, in order to trim down the article to a size more appropriate for the subject. Yes, I know a lot of the Ron Paul fanboys will be offended by this, but ultimately that's the problem in the first place. 24.83.107.213 (talk) 04:56, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with your statement. Article length should not be determined by relative importance of the article's subject. Less popular candidates should not be held to a different standard in the length of their articles than other candidates. Especially since this article is well written and researched, extraordinarily well sourced, organized, etc...obviously because there are many people who care about providing this information. Please refrain from removing information in an effort to "downsize" the article so it is "proportionate with the candidate's importance" unless a consensus can be established first. --smileyborg (talk) 18:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with the article's length. Even though Paul's chances of winning the nomination are extremely slim, he's become more than a fringe candidate. He clearly has represented and energized a segment of the electorate, somewhat similar to what primary campaigns of George Wallace, Jesse Jackson, Pat Robertson, Pat Buchanan and others have done in the past. Wasted Time R (talk) 19:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Would you mind telling us under what username you intend to edit this semiprotected article, so we can connect the two and amicably discuss changes toward consensus? Thanks. BTW I am on the verge of a major compression of the Campaign and Legislation sections, as I've adverted here before. John J. Bulten (talk) 22:39, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I forgot to login before writing that comment. I apologize for arrogantly declaring I would drastically change the article without first achieving some kind of consensus here. Also, I intend to add a brief sentence or two about Don Black (of stormfront.org infamy) and his donations to Ron Paul. I think being supported by the white nationalist/neo-nazi community bears some relevance.CloutierFan02 (talk) 06:00, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Ron Paul's chance of winning the election or even a nomination may be incredibly low, but I don't understand why a person's Wikipedia article length should be proportional to that person's probability of winning an election. If this was true, then logically, we should delete the Wikipedia article on Issac Newton because he has zero probability of winning a government election. --Armaetin (talk) 21:15, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

If you are going to mention that Don Black donated $500, be sure to mention the names of the people who donated the other 99.9975% of the $20M raised last year, along with brief biographical descriptions, and the reasons for their donations. --The Four Deuces (talk) 07:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

So much for neutral point of view?

I challenge anyone here to find a Psalm in the Bible as worshipful of God as this entry is of Ron Paul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hosiah (talk • contribs) 22:54, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

An article on Wikipedia with a conservative bias? Not likely, pal. Your problem is that any article that isn't as heavily biased towards liberalism as most on this "encyclopedia" (hardy har har) strikes you as being conservative. LOL! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.0.43 (talk) 00:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Dude...anything on the internet that's not Ron Paul biased? Not likely —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.151.42.134 (talk) 09:11, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't biased towards liberalism, conservatives are simply wrong. Whent eh global warming page says global warming is real, it's not being biased, that's jsut the fucking fact —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.149.9 (talk) 13:02, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

This article is completely worshipful, horribly biased pap. I'm only in favour of it because anything that helps Ron Paul win the nomination for the Republicans is good for America - by giving the Democrats a pro-militias John Bircher to run against. If they can't beat one of those, they don't deserve to be a US politcal party. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 20:52, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't kid yourself, Glory; that's what some of us thought in 1980. --Orange Mike | Talk 21:03, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

To Hosiah and anyone else who feels this article is biased: If you feel like this article is biased, why not introduce a "Criticism" section? After all, Ron Paul's positions are highly controversial, and both the right and left wings should find plenty to criticize about in his ideology. You could even put in the fact that Ron Paul has requested earmarks for his congressional district despite his opposition to federal spending. That bit of information tarnishes his record as Dr. No, but don't forget to include his defense: although he requested the earmarks, he voted against them in the end. That makes me wonder what kind of logic Ron Paul operates on (is he crazy or does he have hidden agendas?), but Wikipedia must be as NPOV as possible. And Ron Paul also justified the request for earmarks by saying that he was only his congressional district their fair share of the federal tax money. Of course, if Ron Paul enjoys his share of the pork, what gives Ron Paul supporters the moral right to criticize other politicians for doing the same? Anyway, I'm not going to write a Criticism section because I'm too biased against Ron Paul (I find his ideology illogical and nonsensical), but you believe this article is biased, take steps to correct this NPOV. --Armaetin (talk) 20:58, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

The article is locked. Only certain people are allowed to edit it. This further confirms the bias of the article and the bias of Wikipaedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.212.34.244 (talk) 02:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

That's nonsense. The article has been heavily vandalized; semi-protection just means that we know which editor makes changes. No bias is involved. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

To Armaetin-Congress is given the right to divy up funds. If he didn't ask for those funds they would have been given to the executive branch. They take their money and he feels that it is part of his responsibility as a representative from that district to ask for the money back. He is against tax breaks, but he will take them if they are given to him. Just wanted to clear that up. Tynews2001 (talk) 00:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

since we're getting technical, please note that congress has been granted the power to divy up funds; congress and the government in general does not have rights. Anastrophe (talk) 00:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

100 yard Dash

Re: "He ran the 100-yard dash in 9.7 seconds".

Wow, that's a truly amazing time. A world record by some distance, in fact. (The world record for 100m is 9.74 seconds, and 100 yards is a significantly longer distance.)--82.6.32.109 (talk) 18:38, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, my mistake. 100 metres is longer than a 100 yards after all. Stupid imperial measurements. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.6.32.109 (talk) 18:40, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I am going to call BS on this: In the 1952 Olympics Lindy Remigino of the US won the 100M dash with a time of 10.4. The typical conversion from meters to yards in the 100M dash is to deduct 0.9 seconds. Therefore, one would argue that the Olympic champ, the year before, was capable of a 9.5 second 100 yd dash, or a time 2/10ths of a second faster then Ron Paul? Sorry. This is a big false. Further, the footnote is questionable at best - who in fact wrote the article? The fact that it is in the Seattle Times does not equate with being true. Unless this can be verified, independently, I would strongly suggest it and the rest of Ron Paul's athletic achievements be looked at with a jaundiced eye.

Hilarious. Does any one here know the real time Ron Paul can run a 100-yard dash? --Armaetin (talk) 21:09, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

From 1933 (when the legendary Jesse Owens did it) through 1954 [1] through at least 1961 [2], the U.S. high school national record for the 100 yard dash was 9.4 seconds. The source says Paul was Pennsylvania state champion at 220 yards, so obviously he was top high school runner. Was he so good that he came within 0.3 seconds of the national H.S. record? It's certainly possible. The other thing to remember is that these races were all hand-timed back then, with a good deal of honest human error involved once you're into the tenths of seconds. So maybe his real time wasn't quite that good, but that's what it got recorded as. In any case, I don't see grounds to take it out of the article, unless further research comes up with a more definitive source. Wasted Time R (talk) 05:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, here is a Gettysburg College page that shows Ron Paul ran a 100 yard dash in 9.9 seconds in 1957 for them, their third-fastest result ever at the time. He's also listed for a 21.64 time in the 200 meter run in 1957, still their T-5 best time ever today in that event. I don't see any reason to doubt his sprinter bona fides. Wasted Time R (talk) 05:29, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I've now updated the article itself with the most precise times and cites I can find on the issue, with further explications in footnotes. Wasted Time R (talk) 16:24, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Wasted, I did my best to respect your hard work by moving content to 100 m, 100-yard dash, and 200 m. It seemed just a hair too many sentences on this topic for this article. His time is not controversial and the additional sourcing here and in the linked articles is sufficient to address ordinary confusion. IMHO, extraordinary confusion does not need extraordinary controversy resolution procedures, it just needs people to be referred (repeatedly) to the talk discussions. John J. Bulten (talk) 01:57, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I think some of your edits to the track articles are misguided, but I'll let the athletics editors sort that out. I restored one point to this article, the comparison to the national high school record for the 100 yard dash at the time. This kind of comparison is commonly done with junior athletes and high school sports to indicate how good someone really is, and has nothing to do with whether someone was questioning the 9.7 time or not. Wasted Time R (talk) 04:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Ron Paul doesn't accept evolution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4af9Q0Fa4Q

At about 2:36 in: "Well, first I thought it was a very inappropriate question for you know, the presidency to be decided on a scientific matter and I think it's a theory, a theory of evolution... and I don't accept it. You know, as a theory. But I think it probably doesn't bother me... it's not the most important issue for me to make the difference in my life to understand the exact origin. I think the creator that I know... created us, each and every one of else, and created the universe... and the precise time and manner and you know... I just don't think we're at a point where anybody has absolute proof on either side, so I just don't... if that were the only issue quite frankly, I would think it's an interesting discussion, I think it's a theological discussion, and I think it's fine and we can have our own- if that were the issue of the day, I wouldn't be running for public office."

Can we mention this somewhere in the article? A presidential candidate that doesn't accept evolution is very relevant.

It's not very relevant at all, actually, especially if he has no intentions of forming policy based on those beliefs. ~ UBeR (talk) 21:06, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Statements about Ron Paul's beliefs do not have to pertain to policies he might make as president to be included in this article. That said, and without having viewed it yet, I think using a YouTube clip as the sole source might be a bit sketchy.--Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 22:50, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

The inability to accept overwhelming evidence that contradicts one's unsupported beliefs is absolutely relevant. We saw the dangers of "I know what the evidence says, I choose to ignore it" with President Bush. 74.74.227.114 (talk) 20:13, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

It's relevant, as a president does have to decide on scientific issues, and it matters whether a president has trust in overwhelming scientific consensuses or not. That said, what Paul said in the above transcription is pretty incoherent. Evolution doesn't attempt to explain the creation of the universe or even the origin of life, just how life progresses once it does exist. So while we may not be able to conclude whether he accepts evolution, I think we can conclude it's been a long time since med school for him. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:26, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

It's relevant. Remember, Ron Paul is a person first and a presidential candidate second (or third or fourth or whatever number... the point is that he is a person and any information about his is relevant, aside from what would be deemed as belonging in a "Trivia Section.") --Armaetin (talk) 21:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I restored this entire section after it was deleted, but I can sympathize with the deleters somewhat. Would it be possible to limit our comments on this subject to discussions of relevant Wikipedia policy and the most effective ways to improve this article? Our personal feelings about Paul's views on evolution are probably not appropriate here. --Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 18:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I added it to the political positions article, but I won't be suprised if some Ron Paul fanboy removies it the next minute. We have it stated on every other candidate, why not on Ron Paul?--The monkeyhate (talk) 22:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

imo it certainly belongs on his political positions pae and i'll revert anyone who takes it away without discussion. i don't feel it belongs on his general biography. SJMNY (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 02:05, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

BTP

I think having an entire section of the Boston Tea Party reenactment is rather unnecessary in relationship to his campaign. I'm sensing WP:WEIGHT issues. ~ UBeR (talk) 04:33, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

The Tea Party gets more coverage in the main article than it does in the Ron Paul presidential campaign, 2008 article; that's an inversion of how it should be. Wasted Time R (talk) 15:22, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Now we also have separate sections on the Ron Paul Blimp and the Ron Paul Revolution (he hired Prince's band?). The latter sets a new mark for the worst-written Paulite propaganda yet. Wasted Time R (talk) 21:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

imo the campaign page, not the biography page, is the right place for campaign stunts like the reenactmentSJMNY (talk) 00:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I moved the BTP & Ron Paul Blimp events to the campaign page as suggested. I additionally truncated the '08 presidential campaign section with the exception of the Ron Paul Revolution section, acquiescing to a protest due to that page's potential future deletion. Ultimately, it also might be best moved to the campaign page. - CheshireKatz (talk) 21:12, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

You truncated about 20K. I trust you verified that everything notable appeared in the subarticle, my friend? When the 4 or 5 Paul deletion arguments run their course, I think major cleanup of the campaign article, and/or ensuring the campaign section here meets proper summary style, will be indicated and may require consulting the text you truncated. John J. Bulten (talk) 02:07, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

"affirms states' rights to determine the legality of abortion"

Even after creating an account, I can not edit this article, so I will ask someone else to...

When it says, "affirms states' rights to determine the legality of abortion" that doesn't really make sense.

I think it should say, "believes states should determine the legality of abortion" instead. Anyone agree? Paulin08 (talk) 07:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I made the change. Paulin08 (talk) 22:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I think this sentence should clarify the connection between overturning Roe v. Wade and supporting states' rights to determine the legality of abortion. This can be achieved with minor changes to the sentence structure and wording. Terjen (talk) 22:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

It is misleading when the intro labels Paul as "strongly pro-life", even if the candidate has described himself this way. Paul opposes a Federal ban on abortion[3], hardly a "strong pro-life" position. In addition, he has several times voted against legally restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions and against making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime. I suggest we drop the adjective/adverb and leave the label to just "pro-life". Terjen (talk) 16:05, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Ronpaulsignature.png

Image Copyright problem

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As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Non-free content, use a tag such as {{non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

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grass roots support section

Regarding this section:

The Ron Paul Revolution (also known as the Ron Paul: R[evol]ution, R-love-ution, and R-evol-ution) is a term coined to represent the grass roots supporters of 2008 presidential candidate Ron Paul. When Dr. Paul delivers a speech, the audience members are often seen wearing "RON PAUL REVOLUTION" t-shirts.[111] "Paulites tend to be tech-savvy, tired of traditional politics and suspicious of their government and the mainstream media. Consisting of Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and Constitution Party followers uniting behind some or all of the Paul libertarian agenda -- ending the war in Iraq, abolishing gun control laws, legalizing marijuana and dismantling big hunks of the U.S. government, especially the IRS and Federal Reserve system."[112] His supporters, comprising of over 100,000 friends on MySpace.com and over 82,000 supporters on Meetup.com, have collectively have planned or held nearly 21,000 offline events to rally support (and raise money) for their candidate.[113] When asked about the "Revolution" Ron Paul answered, "It’s an ideological revolution," that he opposed violence and esteemed the teachings of Dr. Martin Luther King and Gandhi that civil disobedience should be used to bring about social change. On December 16th, 2007, the 234th anniversary of the Boston Tea Party, Ron Paul supporters made history by raising 6 million dollars in a 24 hour period- more money than any candidate has raised in a single day in U.S. political history.

I think this can be dealt with in the article without requiring its own subsection, but I was reverted when I tried to delete it. Personally, I feel that it is poorly written, uses quotes in odd ways (is the quote about MLK and Gandhi necessary? this would seem to imply that some people feel that the "Ron Paul Revolution" is a putsch of some sort, which I don't think is the case), and repeats information that appears elsewhere (Ron Paul has MySpace friends). --Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 00:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I reverted you AGAIN. I feel you have a hard time dealing with this (as you tagged my page Ron Paul Revolution page for deletion), now this section. Also I guess it is hard to deal with since almost all of it is a direct quote from mainstream media... And YES some of the media (Glenn Beck) have brought up issues with the "Revolution" being violent or domestic terrorists, so it is perfect valid to have Dr. Paul’s response to such allegations. Please do not delete again with out others views, as yours are all to apparent.--Duchamps_comb MFA 16:24, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, please note that this topic is dealt with in the Ron Paul presidential campaign, 2008‎ article (though that, like pretty much every other article connected to Ron Paul could use some trimming as well). There is little reason to keep this particular passage in an article about Ron Paul, the person. --Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 16:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I moved the section to RP 2008, took out the redundancy about myspace and meetup. Put in social networking, which I think is a better fit.--Duchamps_comb MFA 18:06, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

This is part of the Ron Paul interview with Glenn Beck.[4]

BECK: OK. Dr. Paul, I`m going to take a break. And in the break, I`m going to feed something down to your location that I`m not going to show on the air. My life has been threatened. I`ve had to wear a vest and have securities. I`ve had an S.W.A.T. team watch my family because of people who say they support you. I want to show you something that is out on the Internet about me and from people that say they support you. And I want to get your thoughts on this, and let`s set to rest some things when we come back. Shall we?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: We`re back with Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, who is joining us tonight for a full hour. I want to make this very clear. I believe that Ron Paul, in general, the group of supporters, some of whom I`ve met while I was on the road, are amazing people. Without any help from the official campaign, Ron Paul supporters have coined the term "The Ron Paul Revolution." They developed the concept for the Guy Fawkes Day money bomb back on November 5th which raised over $4 million. They hired a blimp to fly over New Hampshire to promote the Ron Paul campaign. Last Sunday, they held a tea party, where they broke John Kerry`s single day primary fundraising record by collecting another $6 million. But the downside is, when you have rabid supporters, some of them believe they can speak to their own agendas using the candidate`s name. And I just in the break showed Dr. Paul just a clip, a very small part of a five- minute video that is on the Internet where I am named a traitor and traitors should be executed. Can you -- would you like to address that at all, sir?

---So YES, Newsroom hierarchies I'd say that my quotes about the Revolution being violen are valid. And yes You feel you can just do anything with section You want. With out coming to a Consensus, so STOP... Untill others voice their thoughts.--Duchamps_comb MFA 20:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

A discussion of this text is ongoing over here. --Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 20:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Winners of caucus

Okay so since he came in 5th... does that mean he doesn't get to move on or does it mean he's just not as popular in that state and better luck in the next... Forgive my ignorance, i'm kinda new to this who politics thing >_< —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.174.135.188 (talk) 04:53, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

It means he better hope for a good run in New Hampshire. ~ UBeR (talk) 04:57, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The RP articles should stay clear of whether his 10%, 5 out of 7 finish in Iowa is good or bad ... that's up to the pundits and spinners. The average such politico would probably say he did better in Iowa than you might expect, given the makeup of the Iowa Republicans, but given all the money he has, needs to do better than this in New Hampshire, home of the Free State Project. Wasted Time R (talk) 05:01, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

citation needed

Anyone got a source for the "opposes birthright citizenship and amnesty" bit in the political positions section? i'm putting a cite needed tag on it, as that seems to be a pretty big position to list without a source. Grandmartin11 (talk) 06:28, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Good article reassessment

I'm submitting this article for reassessment, as it is neither neutral nor stable. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I would have to agree. Perhaps it's just because I'm tired but parts of this article seem to be a little too glowing to me, as if this is a PR rather then an encylopaedia. Of particular concern is the relationship with district section. Nil Einne (talk) 10:29, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

imo you're never going to have a "stable" article about a candidate in an ongoing presidential election. Why not assess where things are when this all dies down? SJMNY (talk) 11:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I disagree about this claim in general; Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton have both been stable during the election, for example, and are FA and GA respectively. They are biographical articles, of which the presidential campaign material is a small portion. It doesn't speak well of Wikipedia if its articles on political figures involved in campaigns cannot by definition be considered excellent or good. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree with Orange Mike. However, SJMNY has a point - maybe the Iowa caucus results will fizzle out the activity on this page. Anyway, I think the "good article" label was a sad joke. (Watch the army come and vandalize my page come Monday, again.) AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 15:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I think this article should be delisted because of POV issues. Right now, it reads like a press release.

• "Paul is strongly pro-life, but opposes a Federal ban on abortion, advocating overturning Roe v. Wade to let states determine the legality of abortion." — We should avoid loaded and controversial terms like "pro-life," unless they are part of a direct quote or a discussion of the term itself. "Anti-abortion" is more neutral.
• "On August 15, 1971, when President Richard Nixon closed the "gold window" by implementing the U.S. dollar's complete departure from the gold standard, he says he realized what the Austrian School economists wrote was coming true." — Replace this with a direct quote. Otherwise, it sounds like Wikipedia is agreeing with his claim that "what the Austrian School economists wrote was coming true."
• "In 1974, alarmed at the turmoil he saw predicted by the Austrian school, Vietnam War funding, rampant inflation, and wholesale welfare[...]" — Again, this should be put as a quote. Say "what he described as..." and then recount it in his own words.
• "In 1980, when a majority of Republicans favored President Jimmy Carter's proposal to reinstate draft registration, he pointed out their views as inconsistent, stating they were more interested in registering their children than they were their guns." — "Pointed out" is POV; it implies Paul was correct.
• "On the House Banking Committee, Paul blamed the Federal Reserve for inflation,[34] and spoke against banking deregulation that allowed for the 1980s savings and loan crisis." — POV and original research.
• "Paul entered the race hopeful that his Constitutionalist goals of tax cuts, closing agencies, and curbing the UN would have more influence" — describing his goals as Constitutionalist is POV.

This article is salvageable, but it needs work. It also needs a bigger criticism section, since Paul is really a fringe figure and this makes him look much more mainstream and popular than he really is. *** Crotalus *** 05:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

What makes him more "frindge" and less "mainstream"? I think that thepast couple of months has moved him from fringe to mainstream. Saying that it needs more critisism BECAUSE he is a frindge candidate is a bias issue. It should be constructed as any other candidate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.100.80 (talk) 08:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think Crotalus has pointed out some genuine flaws -- I don't agree with the second bullet point, because an indirect quote doesn't imply he's correct any more than a direct one, but the others have some validity. However. As far as I can tell all the candidate articles have a generally positive tone. It's not WP's function to decide who's "fringe" in an ongoing race. I think Crotalus's comments suggest that he himself may not be coming at this from an entirely neutral position. --Trovatore (talk) 00:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Media bias?

Why is the media bias not mentioned on this wiki page? Most major media sources (Fox specifically) have ignored Ron Paul regarding the 2008 elections as much as possible. One only needs to google something like this http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=media+ignoring+ron+paul to find a large number of sources to prove it.

Yet I find that the wiki page hasn't had edits to clarify a possible conspiracy against the candidate. As a supposedly unbiased internet encyclopedia, wikipedia should have a section about this.

Also, in case some of you are refusing to click on a few links yourselves, CNN even criticized other media outlets for ignoring Ron Paul. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/016716.html

71.215.220.196 (talk) 20:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Bias is very difficult to prove. Hunter beat Paul in Wyoming, do you see a lot of coverage on Hunter? They pretty much ignored Tancredo, Biden and Dodd too. Bottom line is that they are covering candidates they believe have a chance and unless he starts placing in the top 4 consistently, they probably won't cover him. Niteshift36 (talk) 20:41, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Clarification of Paul's Views in summary

Here is my revision to the opening paragraph. Please, suggest changes or clarify if or why you believe it is not NPOV to note the connection between Paul's beliefs and those of Washington. I can cite sources if you don't believe me about that link. He himself can be quoted in agreement.

And again, someone takes out my "the privacy violations codified in" the patriot act. Paul is against those. How is that fact not NPOV? Please enlighten me. 65.54.154.145 (talk) 06:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)Dragonnas 01/06/2008 11:00pm PST

Paul has been described as conservative, Constitutionalist, and libertarian. He advocates a non-interventionist foreign policy, having voted against actions such as the Iraq War Resolution, but in favor of force against terrorists in Afghanistan. He is against partisan politics and favors withdrawal from NATO and the United Nations, instead supporting the idea of strong national sovereignty citing the dangers of "foreign entanglements" as expressed in the wishes of George Washington's farewell address. Having pledged never to raise taxes, he has long advocated ending the federal income tax and reducing government spending by abolishing most federal agencies; he favors hard money and opposes the Federal Reserve. He also opposes the violations of privacy codified in the Patriot Act, the federal War on Drugs, and gun control. Paul is pro-life, but opposes a Federal ban on abortion, advocating overturning Roe v. Wade to let states determine the legality of abortion. 65.54.154.145 (talk) 06:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)dragonnas

Improper Editing

I'm noticing that someone is going about deleting past comments that are substantiative and noteworthy for whatever reason. Unless there is something outright unethical, NOTHING should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.191.124.3 (talk) 08:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Is someone deleting all the controversial stuff?

I like Ron Paul as much as everyone else, but this article seem to purposefully overlook certain controversial (divisive) aspects of Ron Paul. It's very long, but overlooks the fact that he does not believe in evolution (as he stated on several occasions), claims the constitution is full of referencs to God (is he really a constitutionalist then, as the article claims), believes that the Fed is a conspiracy. The whole article reads like an ad. See the language it uses "alarmed by what he saw...". Why not "misinformed by ..." or "confused by information outside his field of expertise". I'm just saying. This needs to be more informative and more NPOV.