Talk:Michael Phelps

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Another oversight?

The article says Phelps has a 12000 kcal diet. This should be 12000 calories (not kcal). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.138.208.145 (talk) 14:22, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Dude, 1000 cal = 1 kcal = 1 Cal (food calorie, with capital "C"). He consumes 12,000 food calories. Which is the equivalent of 12*10^6 cal, or 12,000 kcal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.253.180.127 (talk) 17:07, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Zodiac?!

What the hell was that?!, and why that revision is nowhere to be found?! It really shocked me —Preceding unsigned comment added by Naktion (talk • contribs) 01:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

This is the longest I've ever seen vandalism stay up. 72.215.137.31 (talk) 04:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

He vandalizes like this all the time on different pages... but I'm surprised to see it up this long too.

It was already gone from the history by the time I found it. But it was still weirdMech Aaron (talk) 04:07, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

His vandalism is weird... I don't understand how it works, but by simply deleting things from the article and then reinserting them back in, verbatim, it disappears. He must be exploiting some odd bugs. -Chinju (talk) 04:07, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

What the hell was that?!?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.61.12 (talk) 04:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Good job with reverting it. You know, if I were to vandalize a page, I wouldn't put something as stupid as "you cannot run from me for I am above mortal things." It's just nonsensical. 72.215.137.31 (talk) 04:12, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

wtf?

It was template vandalism. It wasn't actually caused or fixed by edits to the article itself. --Onorem♠Dil 04:14, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I've realized that now. Ah well; there goes my feeling special. Just coincidental timing with my do-nothing edit and the fix of the template. (Which has happened previously with The Zodiac, thus bolstering my confidence in my Fonz-like skills...) Incidentally, what template was affected? -Chinju (talk) 04:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Template:United States elections, 2008, Template:Querylink, Template:USLargestCities, Template:Infobox Swimmer, Template:Vgy, and Template:-w were all hit by the same IP. Not sure if there were any others. --Onorem♠Dil 12:32, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Locked?

I'm just curious, why is this locked? What kind of vandalism took place? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JibFlank (talk • contribs) 16:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

More than likely something of this nature would be semi-protected. --Zeta9009 (talk) 21:18, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

"Semi-protection should not be used as a pre-emptive measure against vandalism that has not yet occurred, nor should it be used solely to prevent editing by anonymous and newly registered users. In particular, it should not be used to settle content disputes." WP:SEMI, if there have not been incidents of vandalism, then the semi-protection should be removed immediately. --Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 18:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, if I can't edit it in myself, someone please fix the references to Jason Lezak that should be linked to his Wikipedia page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.77.64.250 (talk) 04:08, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Olympic gold medalists

I can't seem to edit the page even though I am logged in. How do I do it? I would like to ad that he is number 13 on the list of Olympic gold medalists could someone do it for me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clmw (talk • contribs) 15:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC) I can't edit the page either, as I'm a newly-registered user. Could someone spell out the word "eight" rather than using the numeral 8? Thanks Bro rick (talk) 04:46, 17 August 2008 (UTC)Rick

(AR)

In the table section detailing his achievements the term (AR) is used, what does it mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.140.208 (talk) 06:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

American Record, right? I'll add a key below the tables. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.140.208 (talk) 06:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

The Phelpeedo!!

Not sure who took my nickname for Phelps off his page but - The Phelpeedo - needs to be put back up! Please and Thank You! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laylen (talk • contribs) 18:44, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for that? JGHowes ^talk - 18:55, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, now that you put me on the spot...I have to admit, we (myself and a couple friends) are accomplished nicknamers! And I think "The Phelpeedo" is right up there with the best of we've come up with. I am sad to say I am not at the Olympics this year...but if I were you could bet I'd be representing with a sign for The Phelpeedo! Laylen (talk) 18:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)Laylen

Personal research, anecdotes, opinions, etc don't belong in Wikipedia. Sorry WildWikiGuy (talk) 17:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Dude, Phelps himself would approve of that nickname if he wasn't so busy winning gold! I know this because he is wearing a Speedo. Granted "The Phelpeedo" is actually comparing Phelps with a torpedo...I am pretty sure others would see the suttle brand placement as well! +++ Mad endorsement! 210.206.191.75 (talk · contribs) 14:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Too recently done and far better matched was Thorpedo for this to catch on in my opinion...

In any case, unless it's something that gets covered in multiple reliable sources, it's not going to belong in the article. --Onorem♠Dil 14:42, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I am absolutely ashamed that people are not generally aware of "The Phelpeedo" nickname. To think we even call this a page dedicated to Michael Phelps! 131.10.254.61 (talk · contribs) 14:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Look, right now the nickname is WP:OR, becuase it has no sources. Also, a quick gooogle search provides one result. RC-0722 ^361.0/1 14:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a blog or the place to coin a new nickname. It is an encyclopedia of previously published material only. That is, if this nickname were stated in Time magazine or Sports Illustrated, for example, then and only then could it be included in Wikipedia. JGHowes ^talk - 15:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

EXACTLY!! Wikipedia is SERIOUS business. Seriously. I mean really. You should bow when you say Wikipedia and respect its authoriTAY!! Get over yourselves you self important dweebs. Wikipedia is a JOKE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.69.81.2 (talk) 18:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't feed the troll. --Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 18:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

His title is Aquaman not the phelpedo. (Teh Moparman) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.113.142 (talk) 02:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

During an NBC highlight reel of Phelps, an announcer with a British accent dubbed Phelps "The Baltimore Bullet" which is the second time I've heard him referred to in that manner. Also, the commentators on NBC frequently refer to him as "Superman". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.130.136.206 (talk) 15:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Fred Phelps (father)

I've added a short note to the article stating that Michael Phelps' father, Fred Phelps, is not related to the hate-monger from Kansas who protests against gays and at the funerals of service members. Fred Phelps of KANSAS is such a reviled figure that I thought it important to clarify that we are not talking about the same person. Michaelh2001 (talk) 18:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

ADHD

There's an interesting article in today's NY Times about Phelps' ADHD issues in school, etc. 72.192.143.30 (talk) 07:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

200 Free Record Time

According to nbc (website and broadcast) the time is 1:42.96, not 1:42.93 as listed under "currently held records", "world records" below it is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.97.27 (talk) 02:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

4 X 100 freestyle relay

In the "2008 Beijing Summer Olympic Games" section of this article is the statement, "Phelps swam the 1st leg of the men's 4x100m freestyle relay in a time of 47.51 seconds (an American record for the 100m freestyle)..." This is repeated in the Currently Held Records table and Best Times and All-Time Event Rankings table. But how could this be an American record when teammates Jason Lezak and Garrett Weber-Gale had times of 46:06 and 47:02, respectively? Information on both the Swimming at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 4 x 100 metre freestyle relay and Jason Lezak pages seem to contradict this statement. I think the answer to my question might be that only the first leg of the relay counts as a record. Is that the correct explanation, or is there an error on these pages? Redhookesb (talk) 06:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, only the first legs of relays can be counted for records in their corresponding individual events because the later guys are not doing a stationary start, whereas the first guy is doing it in a stationary start as they would in a normal individual race. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Body shape

Phelps's body shape is contributing to his success: long arm reach, and a proportionally large upper body. This could be mentioned in the article. Another olympic recordholder Pieter van den Hoogenband has a similar build. --VanBurenen (talk) 07:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Find a source that also says that and it should be no problem. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 14:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

A picture of Phelps at a poolside would already be helpful. Maybe take a picture when they show him on TV. There should be plenty of opportunities. --VanBurenen (talk) 15:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Not quite. That doesn't demonstrate why his body shape contributes to his success nor does it constitute as a reliable source, and would probably be a copyright violation to boot. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 15:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gFplrVkFHMmZVeqU2EsPWGSytXNgD92GR8RG3 ("his body — perfectly suited for swimming with its long torso, large wingspan and big, flexible feet — re-emerged from the water.") 65.216.235.42 (talk) 20:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Another source for you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/olympics/2008/08/can_anyone_spoil_phelps_pool_p.html Not sure if that helps.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.40.46.101 (talk) 15:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Unsure if it can be used as a source, but at one point NBC did an analysis of why his body was perfectly suited for swimming... if you're still looking, you might try and find a video of that or a text version. Sorator (talk) 04:02, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

All-time Olympic Games individual medal count

We have All-time Olympic Games medal count. Given all the talk about Michael Phelps tying others in individual medal count, any chance in someone creating the article all-time Olympic Games individual medal count? Suntag (talk) 08:03, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

See Olympic Games#All-time Olympic Games individual medal count. Suntag (talk) 08:16, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I added the gold medal count info to the Michael Phelps article. Suntag (talk) 08:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Slightly Incorrect Date for 4x4 100M Relay

Under the section "2008 Beijing Summer Olympic Games" the final sentence of the 3rd paragraph reads "The top five teams in the final finished ahead of the world record of 3:12.23 set earlier in the day by the American B team in a preliminary heat."

Though it may be correct in some areas of the world, in the location of the event - China - the preliminary heat was ran the previous day. In Beijing all of the preliminary heats for swimming are scheduled for the evening sessions with the finals sessions being held the following morning. While it appears to be the same day for people who may live in the states, official record should show those races were actually held the previous day. Therefore instead of saying "earlier in the day," it would be more accurate to say "the previous evening" or even "15 1/2 hours earlier" for emphasis on the relatively short length of time between the two swims.

Here is a link to an article that references the local times of the swimming heats/finals.

http://swimming.about.com/od/olympicswimming/qt/oly08swimevents.htm

Brett —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcvaldez (talk • contribs) 19:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Error in overview?

Michael Fred Phelps (born June 30, 1985 in Baltimore, Maryland) is an American swimmer who holds world records in several events. Phelps has won thirteen medals overall, eight (six gold, two bronze) at the 2004 Summer Olympics in and five (all gold) at the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games,[2] which broke the record for the most medals obtained in a single Olympics, a record previously set by Alexander Dityatin in 1980.[3] Phelps' international titles, along with his various world records, have resulted in him being named World Swimmer of the Year in 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007 and American Swimmer of the Year in those years and in 2001 and 2002.

Phelps has qualified to compete in eight swimming events at the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, and beat Mark Spitz's record of seven gold medals at one Olympics. And as of August 16, 2008, Phelps has won eight gold medals in Beijing, all in world record time, giving him 11 career Olympic golds, more than any athlete in history.

Shouldn't the passage in bold be "which broke the record for the most gold medals obtained by a single athlete?" Somebody with an account please correct this.--76.117.61.1 (talk) 04:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, Spitz had seven golds, and no silver or bronze. I'll have to check if they mean most total medals.. sounds like they are counting all 8 medals.. but that wouldn't break Dityatin's record (spitz had seven, so Dityatin had to have at least 8). Let me look at this.. SirFozzie (talk) 04:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it was equalled and the Russian gymnast got 8 total also. It defeintely means the total. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

They mean total medals, the reference (ESPN) states that after his 11th medal overall he became the "most decorated Olympic athlete". I've fixed the text. -- Atama^chat 04:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it wasn't the total amount of medals, a Russian female gymnast has 18 medals, but most medals of any type in one Olympics. SirFozzie (talk) 04:30, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

SirFozzie, what's your source for that? That completely contradicts what ESPN is saying, it states that his 11th medal overall makes him the most decorate Olympic athlete ever. -- Atama^chat 04:34, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Never mind, you may be right. ESPN was also counting Phelps' 5 world records that he broke at Beijing so far. I changed it to state that ESPN named him "most decorated" and left it at that. -- Atama^chat 04:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Works for me :).. Just for future reference, the gymnast in question is Larissa Latynina SirFozzie (talk) 04:42, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

DUI

Wasn't Phelps charged with a DUI? Should this be mentioned? I don't care either way, I just thought it might be important.ShinyWatchGuy (talk) 04:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

It's already mentioned in the Early Life section. SirFozzie (talk) 04:52, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

It's actually in the Personal Life section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.28.155.226 (talk) 06:20, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Number of Golds at Beijing Olympics

The article says that as of Aug. 13, he's got 6 golds and world records, but I only count 5 so far, what's up?--Rweiss4 (talk) 05:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Where does it say that? SirFozzie (talk) 05:49, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

ah, I see it was fixed. Never mind. SirFozzie (talk) 05:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

athlete (?)

I would think a swimmer is not an athlete. athlete refers only to track and field events. Can anyone correct this? Thanks 193.28.155.226 (talk) 06:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Source that "athlete" refers only to track & field pls? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.146.16.131 (talk) 06:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Athlete can be used in a general sense to mean sportsperson or in a more specific sense to mean track and field athlete, so I think its use here is OK. --Pawnkingthree (talk) 08:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for both replies. I stand corrected. However, looking at http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/athletics I was surprised to see the definition "1  : exercises, sports, or games engaged in by athletes". So not only an athlete is a sportsperson, Athletics is sports in general. This is new to me (and a bit off-topic). Thanks 89.1.60.252 (talk) 18:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

changing references to cite web/news

Would anyone object to all of the related references being changed to {{cite web}} or {{cite news}}?--Rockfang (talk) 09:03, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't object, but yoou won't see me doing it, I'm horrible at templates :) SirFozzie (talk) 09:06, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll do it myself.  :) I just wanted to get consensus first. :) Rockfang (talk) 09:09, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

National Titles

I'm a bit confused about Phelps's national titles. The article says 38 titles plus 5 won in relays. On his USA Swimming profile are only listed 34 singles titles. I recognize that the titles won in the 2007 summer nationals competing in the 200 m freestyle, 200 m backstroke and 100 m butterfly are definitely missing in the profile, which would make it 37. The 38th single title would be the 50 m freestyle title listed in the article. I remember that this one appeared in the USA Swimming profile a few months ago but now it's off...and SCN meaning achieved in the short course nationals? I did not find any results varifying this. Another point being his 4th 100 m freesytle title, listed as won at '07 WIN: does this mean winter nationals? Never heard about something like that. And the last thing being the yard national titles listed in the article. They are not listed in the profile but these results appear in the profile on the right hand side as results in 2007 as "SCY nats". Do they count as proper national titles? Does anyone know about these facts? --FeinerMax (talk) 14:50, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

U.S. national titles - SCYN

I have searched for SCYN on Wikipedia - only this article contains any incidence of the word. I Googled SCYN - no luck in finding a swimming/sport link. What could it mean? I found out that SCN means SC Nationals but the disambig article SCN on Wikipedia doesn't list this. I think I tracked down SC from this Wikipedia article FINA World Championships - Short Course. There should definitely be a Key - as was done for AR (see on this discussion page). The Key should cover SPG and SUM and WIN - presumably spring, summer and winter - however obvious it may seem to those in the know. Also, what is the difference between AR and US?
You can see the considerable amount of work necessary to track down the meaning of these short forms and as Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and U.S. swimming and Michael Phelps have garnered world attention it would be a good thing to fill in the blanks for the lay man. More wikilinks would be nice too. Thanks somebody. --User:Brenont (talk) 17:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

To the AR/US topic: AR (American Record) is the fastest time set by an American (US) citizen anywhere in the world, and US/USO (US Open Record) is the fastest time set by anyone within the geographical territory of the US. --FeinerMax (talk) 21:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah! - I see the section above has information that tells me SCYN is short for Short Course Yard National - is that so? Whoever puts a key together should reference all the terms used in the U.S. national titles section as there are no wikilinks (yet). --User:Brenont (talk) 17:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Error on "2004-2008" section

In the "2004-2008" section, the table showing Phelps' medals at the 2007 World Championships is incorrect. In particular, the final row (showing "Disqualified" for the 4x100m medley relay) is incorrect. Phelps did not swim in that relay team (which was disqualified because the butterfly swimmer -- Ian Crocker -- left the platform 1/100th of a second too early). Rather, this team was Lochte, Usher, Crocker and Walker.

This link [1] is to the official summary for this race; the USA team is shown on page 4.

Deichmans (talk) 23:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

This is correct, but Phelps would have competed in the final. The disqualification took place in the preliminaries. As Phelps was planned for the team, the information is not really incorrect. --FeinerMax (talk) 05:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd argue that the row be removed entirely. He himself was not disqualified; in fact, he apparently did not even compete. 76.15.12.46 (talk) 02:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

USOC Drug Supertesting group

I have seen in an number of articles references to a small group of olympic athletes who voluntarily are part of a 'supertest' group that gets tested multiple times a week for a wider range of drugs. His participation in this group would be of interest to the article, if more information can be found on it.

The new drug-testing program, which is being administered by USADA, involving the 12 prominent athletes was created with the hope of escaping the cat-and-mouse cycle. It doesn't attempt to identify performance-enhancing drugs per se. Rather, it requires that the athletes submit to frequent blood and urine testing to establish personal norms in more than a dozen hormonal categories. If those numbers stay constant, it's compelling -- but not definitive -- evidence that no doping is taking place. If the numbers fluctuate, it could indicate, or at least raise suspicion, that an athlete is using drugs.

[2]

--24.130.39.186 (talk) 01:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

If you are suggesting that this be added to the article, I would agree. I'm sure we could find more sources. Blackngold29 01:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't they just "stay doped" throughout the study? Just asking. And why should it be added to this article in particular? --SVTCobra (talk) 01:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean "stay doped"? That's what they're testing for. And I think it should be added (only a sentence or two nothing major) because with all the steroid controversey in athletics today, some people will accuse the man of cheating. Therefore in the intrest of NPOV we should present his effort to "clear his name" from these accusations. Blackngold29 06:02, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

He means that where the article states "blood and urine testing to establish personal norms" it is not illogical, according to that particular phrase, that an athlete could stay on a perticular drug(s) in order to establish a "personal norm". The test probably accounts for this in some way, but that is not addressed in that bit of the article.204.17.31.126 (talk) 00:17, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

You are all speculating as to how both these tests work, and some hypothetical drugs could affect it. hard facts please. --24.130.39.186 (talk) 13:00, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Not quite the greatest Olympian ever

Eleven gold medals and all that. Well done. And now we're told that this "gives him the most gold medals of any Olympic athlete" and makes him "the most successful Olympian ever."

Now for some perspective. The modern Olympic Games have been going since 1896. That means there have been 28 (25 in fact, as Wars happened). The actual Olympics did, of course, start around 786 BC. The Ancient Olympics came to an end somewhere between 393 and 435 AD. 'Our' Olympics are just a small fraction of that total.

Which is where I bring us on to Leonidas of Rhodes. Born 188 BC, he was 24 when he competed in his first Olympics and won at the stadion (200 yard sprint), the diaulos (400 yard spring), and the hoplitodromos (a race in armour). Our hero Leonidas won again at these three events in 160 BC, 156 BC and 152 BC. Bringing us to a grand total of 12 Olympic crowns/golds/wins.

Chew on that, Mr. Phelps.

NoNameR (talk) 06:57, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

These types of posts are not appropriate. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a soapbox. —Lowellian (reply) 07:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

This is WP:OR unless you have a source. The statement, if accredited, should be left in. Blackngold29 07:02, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Found one. Let me decide on how to add it. SirFozzie (talk) 07:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm, when most people say "Olympics" nowadays I don't think they really mean the games from Ancient Greece, but rather the ones started from 1896. BalkanFever^{not a fan? say so!} 07:22, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I've posted a section in the article, take a look. SirFozzie (talk) 07:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Others feel like it shouldn't be in the article *shrug* at least I learned something interesting out of it. SirFozzie (talk) 07:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

How about you add it in a footnote?

In the intro it says: ...which gave him the most gold medals of any Olympic athlete of the modern Olympic era..

And after that you could add a footnote, that Leonidas of Rhodes was the most successful guy of all time winning 12 single events (or something like that). -- DanteRay (talk) 18:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

This is complete nonsense. Even if we disregard the fact that by "Olympics" people today usually mean "modern Olympics" (which started in 1894), and the fact that we couldn't really compare the results from ancient and modern Olympic games since events that athletes competed in were completely different, one thing is certain - Phelps is definitely the athlete with most gold medals ever, since competitors in the ancient Olympics didn't receive gold medals for wins - their prizes were olive wreaths, palm branches and woollen ribbons. :-) Timbouctou (talk) 22:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

The above argument of Timbouctou is sheer sophistry. Sure, Phelps has the most Olympic gold medals, but not (at the moment!) the most Olympic victories. That the Greeks used laurel wreaths instead of medals should not be used to denigrate the achievements of their athletes. The symbol of the victory does not nullify the achievement. Also, remember that the modern Olympics are meant to be a revival of the old. When Phelps beats the 12 Olympic victories of Leonidas of Rhodes (which will be soon), then he may be considered the greatest Olympian of all time.Catiline63 (talk) 17:19, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I personally believe that we should not be comparing Ancient Athletes to Modern Athletes. The ancients had no where near as much endurance as our athletes of today do. I mean after all Pheidippides ran 26 miles from Marathon to Athens and then dropped dead on the spot. While today's runners do it routinely and don't drop dead. Say what you will but I feel today's athletes have more endurance.--Subman758 (talk) 22:42, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

We should compare our modern athletes too ancient athletes.In ancient times the athletes did'nt have a treadmill to train they runners.The truth is ancient athletes had it much harder than we do today.Think about the runners in the hotter places. They don't drop dead because we have the technology to keep them alive.

This whole topic is now Irrelevant,as Phelps now has 13 Gold Medals he is OFFICIALLY THE GREATEST OLYMPIAN OF ALL TIME--Subman758 (talk) 02:32, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Hold on there. Mark Spitz was, and still remains, the only Olympian to win a gold medal in every event in which he competed, and to establish a new world record in each such event. Phelps, as phenomenal an athlete as he is, did not establish a world record in his seventh gold win, on 16 August 2008. In any case, my nominees for greatest Olympian remain Bob Beamon or Bruce Jenner. 69.203.13.82 (talk) 06:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC) Allen Roth

Number of gold medals is a poor criteria for 'greatest olympian'. Phelps is a swimmer - he is lucky to be in a sport where he can compete in eight different events in the same olympics. Competitors in Boxing or Archery or Badminton or, in fact, most of the other sports at the olympics, simply don't have that luxury. A better criteria is the number of golds in consecutive olympics. If Phelps is still winning in 2024, then he's the greatest, but until then, in my estimation, he is not as great as those athletes who have won golds in 5 or 6 consecutive olympics. 91.109.139.152 (talk) 13:11, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Well now the gold medal argument is irrelevant, as he just got his 8th gold. As for the consecutive thing... it's much harder to do that in some sports than others, so it's an unfair comparison as well. Don't believe me? There's a reason most of the female gymnasts are ages 16-26; beyond that it's incredibly hard to perform well as your body is not as resistant to injury and also doesn't recover as quickly. They definitely would have more trouble winning consecutive golds than someone would in, say, archery, where age plays less of a factor. Not to mention that gymnastics could be considered much harder because it is dependent on human and thusly includes human error, as opposed to something such as running races, which can be judged mechanically.

And as for not getting a world record for at least one of his swims... one could argue that he did surpass Mark Spitz's time on each of his swims, with the possible exception of the 100m freestyle (unsure if Phelps competed in that, but I suspect he did beat Spitz's time on his part of the 4x100m freestyle, on half of the 200m freestyle, and/or half of his part of the 4x200m freestyle relay; take your pick). He has tied Spitz's number of world records in a single Olympiad, and surpassed him in other ways, and also Spitz has said multiple times that he believes Phelps to be the greatest Olympic champion in history, so I think it's safe to say Spitz cannot be brought up as still being better than Phelps.

And so, I do believe it's safe to say Phelps is the greatest Olympic champion of all time, as best can be determined.

Consecutive golds would seem slightly fairer than total golds, although you're right, neither is ideal. In that case, I think if we were going to call someone the greatest, it would have to be someone with golds in multiple unrelated disciplines. I am adamant that swimmers have too many medal opportunities compared to athletes in other disciplines - it isn't realistically possible to beat Phelps' record without being a swimmer, and it probably wasn't realistically possible to beat Spitz's record without being a swimmer. I suppose this discussion goes to show what an empty title 'greatest olympian' really is. 91.109.139.152 (talk) 10:14, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorator (talk) 03:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC) It's not up to wiki to determine who the greatest olympian is, even with references. The criteria is subjective and besides, it's a mythical title.--66.122.76.19 (talk) 08:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it is indeed inappropriate for Wiki to make a judgment of any kind, since it is its job to report facts. But this is a TalkPage, so we're just having a friendly conversation (although that is not what TP's are for). Many writers make good points. One that is not valid is that "Spitz wasn't that fast," or "Phelps beat all of Spitz's times, even if he didn't break a world record." Please. One must judge an athlete by the times in his day, not in later days. That would be like suggesting that Jesse Owens (also a condidate for "greatest Olympian") was not "fast." Training methods develop and change and improve, etc. etc. But at any given time, the setting of a new world record ought to be treated as equivalent to doing the same thing 30 years later, even if the later time is faster. One of the few situations where this is arguably not the case is Bob Beamon's Long Jump, when he broke the world record by so much that it had to be re-measured because no one had expected anyone to jump that far. Foidehmoh, his record stood for over 25 years, I believe. I do not think that any world record in any event has ever stood for anything near that amount of time. 69.203.13.82 (talk) 17:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC) Allen Roth

Nickname for Fans of Michael Phelps

Avid fans of swimmer Michael Phelps often refer to themselves as a "Phelpsaphile". envisionfilmvideo —Preceding undated comment was added at 15:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a Reliable source? Blackngold29 15:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Um, avid fans of swimmer Michael Phelps often refer to themselves as "Phelps Phans". My reference is the NBC coverage of the t-shirt craze and the TV commercial. So yeah! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.212.114.226 (talk) 03:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

2004 Athens 4 x 100 medley

The article lists the winning team's time and world record as if Phelps had something to do with it, while in fact he didn't swim the finals. He swam in the preliminaries and on account of that he was given the gold medal, but since he didn't take part in the final race, that's one world record that shouldn't be accredited to him. Timbouctou (talk) 22:24, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Wiki Sucks

This is proof of how inaccurate wikipedia can be, someone has locked vandalism onto this page so tht it reads that he is a nigga. Amusing though

While you are entitled to your opinion, this page is for suggestions to improve the article. Not complain about its current state. Blackngold29 23:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Somebody is vandalizing the page right now. Ulaire (talk) 04:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Nicknames

as far as nicknames go this article is embarrassing, Where is the Human fish, golden fish, flying fish, and the American super fish, among others? wiki should be ashamed for this mess of an article. ~Anonymous *and there I signed the post*— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.137.208.196 (talk • contribs)

Provide reliable sources that verify that these are regular nicknames, and I don't see why more can't be added to the article. --Onorem♠Dil 16:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

The article is only as good as the contributions made to it. Perhaps you should try contributing? Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 16:18, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I did some legwork for you. Here's a source. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 16:21, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Work outs and Nutrition

Would it be relevant, given appropriate sources of information, to include the extreme amounts/level of training and caloric intake that Phelps has undergone? Rally Chipmunkey (talk) 20:31, 15 August 2008 (UTC) I think Phelps is taking in way to many calories/carbs.I mean he's just gonna get himself killed doing that.My breakfast is just 2 pancakes.His breakfast is 3 sandwiches with bacon,eggs,and ham and then he has a omelet and then 4 scrambled eggs.9:20,15 August 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.4.103.41 (talk) What do you know??? You have never raced in 8 olympic races and won every oneJakeH07 (talk) 04:07, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

4x100 Medley issue

Someone had taken out the 4x100m event from the 2008 Olympic section, stating that he was not in the official start list. The reason for that is that usually, different swimmers swim the qualifying heats, to save their top guys from having to swim another race. That's what happened previous events in these Olympics. Unless we have something that say he's definitively not going to swim AT ALL, we should leave it in, because he's QUALIFIED to swim in that event. SirFozzie (talk) 23:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree, every news report I've watched has him going for 8 medals and that would be the 8th race. Blackngold29 23:26, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

It's now been confirmed on NBC that he WILL swim the final, so that settles that. SirFozzie (talk) 03:06, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Public and TV appearances...

Would it be worth it to add a section for things like that goofy cellphone commercial Michael Phelps (indirectly) appears in, and for other non-sports-related appearances? --Nomad Of Norad (talk) 01:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I would think so, he's done a few commercials. Anyone remember the one for the '04 games where he swam from (I think) England to the Statue of Liberty, counts "1", and then started to head back? Joe D (talk) 03:05, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Review for the 100M Fly final.

It should me mentioned that the coach for the Silver Medal winner filed an official protest over the closeness of the result. The protest was denied. But it should be noted in the article. 24.215.217.241 (talk) 02:56, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Why should that be noted? The timing dispute was thrown out by the officials after review. Big deal. That isn't something about the man Michael Phelps. 65.212.114.226 (talk) 03:12, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

It should be added that the protest was denied only after FINA reviewed the video at one frame for every 10-thousandth of a second. At this speed, FINA referee Ben Ekumbo of Kenya says it is clear Phelps won. http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/swimming/news/story?id=3537831 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.123.181 (talk) 04:56, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Incomplete reference regarding Spitz's 7 golds

It should be mentioned in para 1 of the page that "Mark Andrew Spitz (born February 10, 1950) is a two-time American Olympic swimmer and the only Olympian to win a gold medal in each event he entered and to establish a new world record in each such event as well." This is a direct quote from Spitz's Wiki page. The second part of Spitz's accomplishment is missing from M. Phelps page - it is relevant since his 7th Beijing gold was only in OR and not WR time. 72.95.81.192 (talk) 09:14, 16 August 2008 (UTC)Hank

Let's leave that on Spitz' page... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.121.242.174 (talk) 03:27, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Source consolidation

Anyone know of a reliable source that lists all of his Olympic times? It seems like a waste to have a separate source for each one. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 13:48, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Marfan Syndrome

According to his book (http://books.google.com/books?id=Fd8Cwqz9-NAC&pg=PA66&dq=Michael+Phelps:+Beneath+the+Surface+marfans&ei=mS6kSLiXCITMigGu_cn6BA&sig=ACfU3U0zp2LMpjkgXzxfdkbH7p2YMCVm1w) Phelps has Marfan Syndrome, which would help explain his physique. As someone who has several relatives with the condition, I feel it should be mentioned.Juggertrout (talk) 00:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

He doesn't have Marfan's syndrome. Don't be ridiculous. We are an age of modern medicine; he is not diagnosed with this easy-to-diagnose condition. Gacggt (talk) 02:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Fred Phelps

Is this swimmer a close relative of Fred Phelps? 68.37.146.82 (talk) 03:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Duplicate wording in introductory paragraphs

First, we see this:

"...and 8 gold at Beijing in 2008, seven of those set world record times."

Then we see this:

"Phelps competed in eight swimming events at the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, winning gold medals in all of them and breaking seven world records."

Can someone fix by either adjusting the first quotation above or the second quotation, please? I have no particular preference, just that duplication be eliminated one way or another. Thanks! 64.209.16.204 (talk) 04:15, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect mouseover text

The alternate/mouse over text is incorrect on the table in the 2008 Olympics section. The "Olympic Record" icon in the table has a mouseover that says "World Record" instead of "Olympic Record" (for the 100m Butterfly). (Perhaps all icons in the acticle should be switched to use the {{WR}} and {{OlyR}} templates?) Thanks --151.203.71.92 (talk) 06:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Lead

I've cut the lead down a little to reduce duplication, and make the lead more representative of the article of the whole (as is advised in Wikipedia guidelines). While his performance in the last week is phenomenal, the article is about more than that his Beijing medal haul broke records. The article is in flux, so it's natural that things like that happen, but it needs to be kept under control. Mostlyharmless (talk) 06:20, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

WR

There is no WR of 4x100 of Medley Relay. The time is 3:29.34 [3] Rga (talk) 09:17, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Well according to other media sources (including NBC), it was a world record [4] --Slayergenxxx (talk) 12:02, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Energy Unit Error

1200 calories, should be 1200 kilocalories. Incorrect units. == —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swordth (talk • contribs) 09:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

According to the Calories article "kcal" is more common than "Calories". Though it has already been fixed in the article I'll just point out that 1200 kcal is about half the daily intake of an adult man. In the source (and now in the article too) the number is 12000. Teglsbo (talk) 11:54, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I slighty disagree with the edit by Wortschätzer. The source says six times so it's confusing to change it to five times more. Another thing is that according to [5] the recommended intake for men is 2550 kcal. So Phelps is "only" eating 4.7 times the recommended average (or 3.7 time more). To change that I would probably have to add another source for the average daily intake. Teglsbo (talk) 12:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)