Talk:Bruce Lee

Bruce Lee - His series stolen from him by Warner Bros

As a student of the martial arts, and in particular Bruce Lee, So please I ask you to allow us talk together as the reasonable people we are, I am not without good faith in you, I trust the reverse is true with myself in an edit before anyone goe's willy nilly and reverts an edit or changes such, the cited material came from Bruce Lee's wife/widow in her book, "Bruce Lee, The man I only knew", I ask, what better source could one want?, however there are numerous films and documentary which also agree with this point regarding Warner Bros and their "old thinking" ways, actually prejudice, which I did not mention as this could be open to Non NPOV, and hurt peoples feels unprofessionally.

The George Takei narrated documentary made by Fred Weintraub, "Bruce Lee: The curse of the Dragon", and John Little's feature length biography "Bruce Lee: A Warrior's Journey" both document the fact that Warner Bros stole the Bruce Lee Kung-Fu series concept from him and put David Carridine in it out of fear of how a then very "white" American audience would take to a REAL Asian-American playing an Asian in a weekly series in the LEAD role.

Please wiki friend, In Mandarin I am called "Bei Kai Tuo", and as a female being a student of Lee's "Jeet Kune Do" is not always easy to be sure, but the rewards are beyond measure. Though Bruce Lee had a short life measured in years, his were many thousand in Wisdom, He was a true Master, his philosophy continues to help make many who are unfocused into better and more productive persons worldwide, are there really any other proofs you think Wiki needs to back up what I have said?, it is not research by myself, it is the words of the friends, and loved ones, and colleges of Bruce Lee himself who are saying these things not I. --cathytreks (talk) 22:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I see that you have duplicated this on my own talk page (I wish I knew how to do that, other than typing up the whole thing twice, once on each page, but I don't), but this is the more appropriate venue. I have seen the two documentaries you cite, and recall no claim in either that Kung Fu was actually created by Lee. It is one thing to deny him the role, but the credit he is allegedly due as creator is something else. If this is true, he would seem to have had ample grounds for a lawsuit, yet he didn't file one. Indeed, I first encountered this claim in the fictionalized biographical film, Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story, made twenty years after Bruce's death, and which depicted him developing it under the actual series' name (rather than as The Warrior, which we know was the name of a TV series he was trying to sell to US networks) and in collaboration with The Green Hornet executive producer William Dozier (although they changed his name to "Krieger" here). If he had actually been involved and Warner Bros. did steal it, you can bet there would have been legal action. I haven't read the widow's book, but strongly suspect that once I do, I'll find it less than conclusive on this. Hence, I—under Wiki regs—called for a citation. I hope that in the future you also remember this incident and look out for work other than that which you wish to revert when you are tempted to use the "undo" function here. Thank you for understanding that in the end. Let me make perfectly clear that I did indeed assume good faith on your part. This is why I did not merely revert and replace my (yes, they were mine) qualifiers, "allegedly...purportedly...if," but merely added cite requests to your version. I do know that many people believe this claim, but I am not one of them. As you now have added proper reference citations, we are settled here, at least until and if evidence to the contrary comes along. --Ted Watson (talk) 22:02, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for the kindly reply, in the Bruce Lee book [[1]] about martial arts legend Bruce Lee, written by his widow, Linda Lee Cadwell it is declared that Warner Brothers took away the part of "The Warrior" and turned it into "Kung-Fu" for the above reason's already mentioned.

It is agreed that the movie with Jason Scott Lee that took "some" dramatic licence or elements of course for some of the dramatic purposes only, however the movie was actually based on the book by Bruce's widow Linda, and written shortly after his death also that it was Linda herself, Mrs. Bruce Lee herself who did the final narration at the films end.

The George Takei narrated video is also a worthy review wiki friend, as it does in fact state what was cited in regard to the Studio taking his idea of "The Warrior" in that it was giving a new name and another actor for the earlier reason's specified in my careful edit you helped me realise on the page.

很佩服你 很佩服你 祝你过一个好天

cathytreks (talk) 19:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal

If there is no objection, Bruce Lee statue in Hong Kong will be merged into this article. --Kannie | talk 03:00, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that woulb be OK. But the Bruce Lee page is so big WP:size, as well their is a page for the Statue of Bruce Lee in Mostar so maybe we could merge both to one "Bruce Lee statue Page" as their is another one I could also put into that page.--Duchamps_comb 05:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there also a statue of Bruce Lee in Bosnia and Herzegovina? Either that, or, merge all Bruce Lee statues in 1 article. There might be other Bruce Lee statues on the planet not mentioned. Neal (talk) 05:32, 4 January 2008 (UTC).

Reports of students of University of Washington planning a Bruce Lee-statue on campus, have been seen. --87.63.229.10 (talk) 18:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I would propose that we create a Statues of Bruce Lee article. We know of at least two existing statues and one that's being planned right now. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:10, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I support merging all the statues into 1 article. I do not support merging the statue into this article however. Benjwong (talk) 02:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Time of birth

The hour of the Dragon is actually 7-9 and not 6-8 as stated in the wiki. Please update this according to his hour of birth. --70.89.75.76 (talk) 13:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I find it interesting you make the effort to point out an error than to actually fix an error. Neal (talk) 21:43, 22 February 2008 (UTC).

Looks to me that this IP did not know which part was correct, the specified time or that indicated by the term "Hour of the Dragon," and was asking for someone who does know to do the job. --Ted Watson (talk) 19:31, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

New cause of death?

According to a Japanese article, The Apple Daily is reporting that Bruce died because he was shot + sent into a coma. Also mentions something about a Japanese oscillation machine & hormones. Hill of Beans (talk) 19:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

So which do you believe, the Japanese article? Or the rest of the consensus sources? Or is it not up to what you believe. Neal (talk) 21:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC).

Newer cause of death

I think this article might be more appropriate in updating the cause of death:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2006/02/26/2003294744 The doctors interviewed in this article state that it is very likely that Bruce Died of something called Sudden Unexpected Death in Epilepsy (SUDEP). This isn't written in the official explanation back when he died, because SUDEP wasn't known back then. It's a condition which has only become known in 1995, well after his death.

Anyway, read that article for more information, and if it seems reliable to you, I strongly encourage making the changes. 114.76.23.247 (talk) 16:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)pactio_kiss

When

No date given for announcement (let alone production or completion target) of Stanley Kwan film mentioned in Bruce Lee#Pending biographical films.
--Jerzy•t 05:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Human Weapon

The 2007 produced documentary Human Weapon by The History Channel mentioned Lee in episode Nr. 10 (China and Kung Fu). It calls: "...that made Lee arguably the greatest martial artist of his time, or any other". Human Weapon is a very serious documentary about martial arts. In any episode the hosts, Jason Chambers and Bill Duff, travel across the world studying the unique martial arts, or styles of fighting, that have origins in the region, from Karate to Judo, Muay Thai, Krav Maga, MMA, Marine Corps to Pankreas. To consider Lee as "arguably the greatest martial artist of his time, or any other" is a great honour to him because this documentary is very serious and shows many differnet styles. Maybe it could be mentioned on this wikipedia page. If yes, perhaps in the section "awards an honours", or the opening section? Your choice Wiki-Team. ;-) Take Care —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.28.175 (talk) 23:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree to adding that description to his awards, or even his summary. That statement has been repeated several times from various sources (Time's Greatest 100, UFC's Dana White, Arnold Schwarzeneger, etc.). If that honor were to be coveted by anyone in that field, it would go to him. Chexmix53 (talk) 19:44, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

So, do you now agree or disagree to adding it? And what do you mean with "anyone in that field"? Human Weapon is a documentary about martial art and Lee was a martial artist. Dana White is the UFC boss, and UFC is combative sport, not martial arts. Schwarzenegger is a former bodybuilding champion, actionstar and current gouverneur of California. His statement about Lee was about his physical attributes (weight training, body type and such stuff), not about his martial art. Finally: Dana White -> the boss of a combative sport institution (MMA); Schwarzenegger -> Bodybuilding/Acting/Gouverneur; Human Weapon -> documentary about martial arts. I think a comment in a martial arts documentary about a martial artist has more value "in that field" like comments from a bodybuilding/actionstar legend or a boss from a combative sport (UFC). Again, Human Weapon is a production of The History Channel, and a product of a channel like this should be taken serious. And if you don´t believe me, you can see and hear this comment on youtube, here yo go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APlXmpnvvhQ (watch from 2.27 min to 2.38 min). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.59.7.6 (talk) 15:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I am surprised that agreeing with someone would bring such brash, ill-constructed sentences of discontent. "Field" is a relative term, and in this case, it can be used to describe people in a martial arts field (White) or in a action movie field (arnold). For your information, Dana White is the president of a mixed martial arts organization, and Bruce Lee has also been termed, "The Father of Mixed Martial Arts." Schwarzenegger was in an interview talking about Bruce Lee I saw a few years ago, and you are wrong, he stated the same thing. I don't need your reference to the you tube video as it is unreferenced and unnecessary to your point. I think that the title "...that made Lee arguably the greatest martial artist of his time, or any other" is appropriate to include in the summary of this article because it is something that has been repeated in multiple mediums (not just your you tube video), for decades. Chexmix53 (talk) 22:00, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I find the idea of Lee as "The Greatest MAist of his time or any other" a bit of a joke. There are recorded warriors from a number of cultures and time periods who led campaigns and fought face to face with enemies in hand to hand combat day in day out for years. Granted they didn't make any films but I would imagine they'd be better candiates for the title.(79.190.69.142 (talk) 22:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC))

Drama Major?????????

Are you sure he took drama for university. i thought it was just philosophy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.60.203 (talk) 12:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Elsewhere in reliable sources, it is said he was a philosophy major. I'll look these sources up and report back with references. --RisingSunWiki 20:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

John Little says on pg. 32 of Bruce Lee: Artist of Life that Bruce Lee "majored in philosophy." Bruce Thomas says on pg. 42 of Bruce Lee: Fighting Spirit that Lee "signed up for classes in theater speech and speech improvement" and "took courses in drawing, composition, social dancing, Chinese philosophy...general psychology...." Instead of saying he "majored" in something, I think it would be best to say simply that he studied philosophy, drama, psychology, and other subjects. Any disagreements? --RisingSunWiki 20:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

As a proud UW grad it is my duty to put these rumors to rest: [2]

Lee was a DRAMA MAJOR. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.202.32.90 (talk) 18:08, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Awards and Honors

This doesn't quite seem applicable as an award or honor, more of a critique, should it be removed from the list?: "The 1993 film Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story claims to be a slightly fictionalized biographical film about Lee. However, few scenes are based on reality." Intel352 (talk) 09:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree, should it not be moved to the "Biographical Movies" section? 66.93.38.177 (talk) 20:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Is this an advert??

This article is a total joke it reads like an advert for the Lee Foundation.About a year ago i did some editing to this pae to include the fact that most of Bruce lees martial arts ricks were just that..tricks.But it now seems that the 'fans' have managed to slowly edit all this out over time.As there is a total lack of any real scientific data on bruces abilities one persons opion on his skills is as good as any other but you have choosen to present the views of fans. Im sure this benefit the ee Foundation a lot but it goes a long way to harming Wiki's reputation as being a factual repository of information.

Most of the quotes sited are by people who hae a vested intrest in keeping the 'Bruce Lee' myth involved! All of these people make money one way or another from the bruce lee myth. Just because some can site something in a book does not make it true. Im sure the stories sund convincing but then they would coming from a bunch of Actors. doesnt anyone check to see if sources sited are credible around here? If you are going to state facts and figure shouldnt they have to e based on something a little bit accurate than the opinions of ex-friends of Bruce Lee? ow me the scientific data on anything that is claimed here.

Show me the film of Bruce doing all the stuff you claim to be truthfull. Show me the film of him holding his legs in an extended position for 30mins. Or him catching rich in the air with chop sticks. Yes e can punch at 500th of a second but this is VERY slow. Why is it made out like its something its not? Im an ex Martial Arts instructor and i can tell you that EVERYONE in my class could do pressups on ther thumbs and 2 finger 1 handed pressups. Ths is nothing special at all yet t seems to be misrepresented here as being some kind of superhuman feat. This entire article seems to have been put together by a 'fan'.

Bruce lee was an actor and a dancer who acted in martial arts films. He didnt have ave a single professional fight in his entire career so it is incorrect to call him any sort of fighter at all. Its all misrepresented facts here... yes we would all like bruce to be the best fighter in the world because he looks kinda cool while he does it. but that is no reason for only telling one side of a story or to be editing out anything the misguided fans dont agree with.

Bruce Lee instructed all his ex students to stopteachig JKD just before he died. Why is this not mentioned? He revoked the licences for the 3 or 4 people who had a 3rd grade pass. So what people are training these days isnt Bruce Lee's JKD its something the students put together 'based' on what Bruce was supposed to have been teaching. But who knows? as he didnt write any of it down we only have thier word for it thats it is jkd. The fact that this is not mentioned is wrong. Bruces family went to court to stop his ex students from using the name JKD and won. Why is this nt mentioned? who has to gain by not presenting all the facts??

the real reson they had to slow use faster film is because the stupid producer had only bought one speed of film.. the wrong speed for fighting films. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with bruces prentend super human abilities.This page is a joke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.143.185 (talk) 13:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

"This is nothing special at all yet it seems to be misrepresented here as being some kind of superhuman feat." -- actually, if similar criticism can be found on a reliable published source, it can be added to this article. Shawnc (talk) 03:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

New Footage of Lee in Madison Square Garden

He gave a demonstration in Madison Squara Garden which was recorded. The footage was vanished for long time, now it´s on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOJTMIQrz5Q —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.58.252.8 (talk) 23:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Tommy Carruthers

Tommy Carruthers is not a student of Bruce Lee. He is a second generation student who has trained with some of Bruce's original students.

The article states that Tommy Carruthers is a "Known students in Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jeet Kune Do". It does not say he is a "Known Student of Bruce Lee". So in essence, this is a true statement. Carruthers is, in fact, a known student in Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jeet Kune Do. One could technically argue that there are thousands of people who could fall into this category, however, Carruthers has a level of notability. Leave him in there, take him out. Does not matter to me, but I thought I'd add this here. Amnion (talk) 07:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Tommy Carruthers is a stud, no doubt, but if an exception is made for Tommy Carruthers, then it opens the door for any notable JKD student, regardless of lineage. It would belong in JKD not Bruce Lee, IMO. MoodyGroove (talk) 14:48, 25 July 2008 (UTC)MoodyGroove

Agreed. If you leave it in there it will be the catalyst to a whole new can of worms. I think the wording should be changed though, to reflect that it's for known studens of Bruce Lee.Amnion (talk) 14:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Fights section

No source has been added for over a month. Unless one is added, the table should be deleted. Shawnc (talk) 03:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Education - error

This is how it posted on the site: "At age 12, Lee entered La Salle College and later he attended St. Francis Xavier's College. In 1959, at the age of 18, Lee got into a fight and badly beat his opponent, getting into trouble with the police.[10] His father became concerned about young Bruce's safety, and as a result, he and his wife decided to send Bruce to the United States to live with an old friend of his father's."

I cannot verify the truth of the statement but it would be reasonable to assume that the ages 12 - 18 should be reversed. I don't believe that he entered college at the age of "12". 70.9.141.215 (talk) 20:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I think they are called "colleges" in Hong Kong, even though they are secondary schools by U.S. terminology. The word means something different there. You can verify this in Bruce Thomas' book Bruce Lee: Fighting Spirit. --RisingSunWiki 01:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Opening Passage

The opening passage describes Bruce Lee as a philosopher...since when was this the case?! I would remove this, but the article is locked... Reidlophile (talk) 22:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

As the article points out in the education section, the philosophy section, and the article on JKD as a philosophy, Bruce Lee studied philosophy as a student at the University of Washington, and actually all throughout his life. This is well-known, and needs no further argument. --RisingSunWiki 23:50, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Instruction verification

Just browsing this article and I have come across several innacuracies:

1) Ted Wong was given a 2nd Rank in JKD directly from Bruce Lee, not Dan Inosanto. The certificate is signed by Bruce Lee.

2) Taky Kimura was given a 5th Rank in 1969 - shortly before Bruce stopped giving out certificates. Although this certificate was a JFGFI cert, Bruce referred to Taky as the senior most instructor of his arts (Dan accepts this). Taky was also privy to all the ramifications of JKD, as Bruce continued to teach him, and gave him a detailed JKD lesson plan in 1969.

3) The LA, Oakland and Seattle schools were formally shut down in 1970 on Bruce's request. They were told to "keep a small group" for training. James was still alive (you have him deceased at that time).

As a Lee historian, I have spent considerable time researching the lineage and verification of Lee's Students. All of the above have been verified.

All the Best D

JKDoug (talk) 22:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

another one

Sorry to come up with more:

At the time Mike Stone, Joe Lewis and Chuck Norris trained with Bruce (late 1967- 1968) - all three men were already established Karate champions and Mike Stone had retired from Karate competitions already, having been champion for some years. Joe Lewis' championship career had been on track for over 2 years BEFORE agreeing to train with him. Chuck Norris had also been on the national championship level for several years. In fact - the first time Chuck met Bruce, was at the All American Karate Championship in New York, where Chuck Norris was fighting Joe Lewis for the Grand Championship Title (late 1967).

The suggestion that Lee's instruction made them champions is baseless. They were all current or former champions when Bruce started teaching them. These facts are verifiable. In addition, Bruce was fond of boasting to anyone who would listen, that he was teaching the 3 biggest WORLD Champions of Karate. This is found in several news articles and also in letters from bruce himself to students (Letters of the Dragon).

JKDoug (talk) 22:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Fanboy article

This is a total fanboy article -- too much inane crap about the vitamins he took, a poorly written incomprehensible history which contradicts itself, and sanitized aspects of his life such as that he died at the home of his mistress. I'd try to make corrections, but the article's locked, apparently to keep it in its current sad form. 68.73.114.58 (talk) 16:02, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Feats

Folks, we really need to be careful with the feats that are being attributed. I absolutely love Bruce Lee but seriously some of these feats are just over the top. I removed the thrusting fingers through unopened steel cans of Coca-Cola and one finger to leave dramatic indentations on pine wood because they were attributed to the book "Tao of Bruce Lee" p. 141. There was absolutely no mention of this. The other was the holding of a 125 lb (57 kg) barbell straight out. This feat is not only insane; I'm seriously questioning website article "WARM MARBLE" The Lethal Physique of Bruce Lee". I have all of Mr. Little's books and nowhere does he make mention of these claims from the web site. Also web sites are extremely unreliable and should be taken with a grain of salt unless well referenced. The wiki encyclopedia is only as good as its source materials. No sense in using unreliable or unsupported documentation. Just because something exist on a web site doesn't make it true. Journalist usually require at at least two sources before publshing, I think we need to do the same. The other thing is I belong to a pretty big Gym and out of curiousity I asked all the strongest people to attempt this feat and not a single one could even come close; really preposterous. I think we are serously degrading Wiki by allowing such uncollaborated information. FrankWilliams (talk) 03:14, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I would agree with the Coca Cola thing, also never heard about it. There is also a feat (witnessed by Joe Lewis (martial arts)) Lee was able to hold a 75 lb. (34 kg) barbell straight out for a time of 20 seconds. Maybe someone change it to 125 lb. (57 kg)...

Well 75 lbs is a much more believable feat then 125 lbs. I would have no objections to adding the 75 lb feat if properly referenced. FrankWilliams (talk) 18:56, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, there are some statements which were VERY referenced and not mentioned on this page. Just some of them (including source):

• In a dictionary, you say "greatest", you say "Bruce Lee", that´s the way it is. He is second to no one.
  • Sugar Ray Leonard (from minute 3.46 to 3.57)
• I wouldn't have put a dime on anyone to beat Bruce Lee in a real confrontation. Bruce Lee was the best street fighter I ever saw, even to this very day, and not just pound for pound — but against anyone in a real fight.
  • James Demile in a Temple of the Unknown interview (10 April 2001)
• When Bruce Lee kicked, you shouldn´t blink with your eyes, because if you do, you don´t see his kick, it´s so fast! Human beings can´t move like colibris, so that´s the fastest you can be. Even Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson, their punches are fast, but you still can see.
  • Jackie Chan (from minute 0.45 to 1.14)]
• Bruce Lee is the leading candidate for being the greatest martial artist of all time.
  • Joe Lewis, quoted at Temple of the Unknown
• ...that made Lee arguably the greatest martial artist of his time, or any other.
  • Bill Duff in the martial arts and fighting sport documentary Human Weapon by The History Channel, episode 10: "China and Kung Fu", aired November 2, 2007. (from minute 2.20 to 2.30)

Just some examples. You can actually hear the original voice of Leonard, Chan und Duff. And you can read the statements of Lewis and DeMile (if you have more time, just read the whole interviews, some points are interesting). Even if all of those 5 quotes have credible source, not one of them is mentioned on this page. And with all respect, Leonard is one of the greatest Boxers ever, like Lewis was voted twice as the greatest fighter of all time in the sport karate. DeMile was an undefeated Boxer at the US Air Force with 128 victories, became one of Lee´s first students in the USA, later in 1985 and 1986 he was a teacher for some soldiers in unarmed combat, and finally he was a Sheriff until 2005. Chan is a movie legend with knowledge about martial arts, and Human Weapon is a 16-part documentary about martial arts and combat sport, produced by on of the best and most serious channels about documentary films, The History Channel. You can read all of those comments on Wikiquote, but not anyone has time to check out Wikiquote. Finally it´s on you and the other Wikipedians to make the decision about it. But i think some of those quotes should be readable on Lee´s Wikipedia page as well, not just on Wikiquote. Take Care —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.58.248.72 (talk) 17:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Nunchaku

I'm surprised that there is no mention at all about Bruce Lee's signature weapon. He single-handedly immortalised this particular martial arts weapon. Do you think it's worth a mention somewhere? Or is it too trivial? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.76.23.247 (talk) 16:25, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

HE IS CHINESE

HE IS CHINESE , HONG KONG CHINESE FOR GOD SAKE!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.246.159.110 (talk • contribs)

He is a quarter German, and Three quarters Chinese, by origin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.242.212 (talk) 02:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, he was an American. Of Chinese ancestry, to be sure. But he was an American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.26.82 (talk) 15:25, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Not at all. He was born to Chinese (Hong Kong native) parents who were VISITING the United States at the time that his mother went into labor, and soon after his birth they returned to their home, where he was raised. They had him invoke the US citizenship, which was a legal technicality resulting from that accident of birth, in his maturity to get away from the street gangs with whom he was getting into trouble. I repeat, he was a Chinese (of partial German ancestry? I've never heard that outside Wiki) who legally claimed American citizenship, possible due to absolutely nothing more than the geographic location of his birth, in adulthood. --Ted Watson (talk) 20:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)