User talk:Benjiboi

Current date and time is: 30 June 2008 - 07:43

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“ They are preserving the sanctity of marriage, so that two gay men who've been together for twenty-five years can't get married, but a guy can still get drunk in Vegas and marry a hooker at the Elvis chapel! The sanctity of marriage is saved! ”

—Lea DeLaria

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Demonstration against "don't ask, don't tell", Times Square

2006 demonstration against the United States military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, in front of the Armed Forces Recruiting Center in New York City's Times Square.

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Contents

Formatting refs

click edit to see...

Note - access date format 2008-06-16

Living Memory LGBT History Timeline from Trans perspective

LGBT Random Picture

Starting draft page

User:Benjiboi/LGBT image quest for current pile.

LGBT Random Picture for user pages

Use {{Portal:LGBT/Pics}} or alternatively <center>{{Portal:LGBT/Pics}}</center> if you want it centered on userspace.Benjiboi

Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence

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operation Spanner link refs date of benefit event Benjiboi Kellan Kellan event in 2007[5]Benjiboi Sisters controversy section ideas ...because Catholicism and American politics has a vast influence on American culture or history of (discrimination, ?,?) or even the more unique and universal appearance of dress the Sisters ... Need to find refs of criticism from within LGBT community. Benjiboi verbiage James Martin, S.J. the U.S. entertainment industry is of "two minds" about the Catholic Church. He argues that, On the one hand, film and television producers seem to find Catholicism irresistible. There are a number of reasons for this. First, more than any other Christian denomination, the Catholic Church is supremely visual, and therefore attractive to producers and directors concerned with the visual image. Vestments, monstrances, statues, crucifixes - to say nothing of the symbols of the sacraments - are all things that more "word oriented" Christian denominations have foregone. The Catholic Church, therefore, lends itself perfectly to the visual media of film and television. You can be sure that any movie about the Second Coming or Satan or demonic possession or, for that matter, any sort of irruption of the transcendent into everyday life, will choose the Catholic Church as its venue.Benjiboi

William A. Donohue

review mass deletions by Mamaljulo (sp?) and restore as appropriate if no one else has. Benjiboi

Media Matters refs all have sources listed, source originals as well. Benjiboi

"Chicken and Bulls" Extortion Scam

See this. Seems worthy of an article but loads of research, possibly userfy and build. Benjiboi

User:Benjiboi/Dykes On Bikes

Compare to current and clean-off what is used already. Benjiboi

Bear (gay slang)

Maybe you can do something with this. I looked at it and tried to figure out how to incorporate it but it was too confusing for me. Of note is that the line is manufactured by American Apparel. ALLSTARecho

Gold mine! I'm digging through a bio right now but we'll deal with that soonly. Benjiboi

Chris Crocker (Internet celebrity) - Gays and YouTube

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Coalition Building in Advocate. “ The biggest breakthrough came when gay folks volunteered in droves to help organize and register people for the CNN/YouTube debate held last July at the Citadel in Charleston. "I bet 75% of the people who were manning (the registration) process were members of the community," says Warren Redman-Gress, the current executive director of AFFA. ” Benjiboi Drama, intrigue, and fighting. Now this is reality TV.: Hillary, Mitt, Barack, and a unique cast of others battle it out on the campaign trail By Joanna Weiss, Boston Globe Staff / January 22, 2008. “ November's CNN/YouTube Republican debate drew 4.5 million viewers, making it the top-rated debate in cable history. ” A One-Way Ticket to Disaster DAVE ITZKOFF, New York Times, December 30, 2007. “ 'We live in a society where there are virtually no repercussions,' said Ms. Min of Us Weekly. The repeat offenders who most often populate our gossip, she said, know full well they can 'get arrested one day, walk a red carpet the next, and still have as many photographers shouting their names and wanting their pictures.' Still, some celebrity journalists believe that while the explosion of instantaneous news media outlets has made these personalities more accountable for their transgressions, the offenses themselves haven’t necessarily grown more offensive over time. ” Benjiboi Internet Sensation From Kentucky WSAZ News Dec 29, 2007, Reporter: Amanda Barren. About Sledd. Benjiboi Chris Crocker (Internet celebrity) new article here Benjiboi There's an interview on there somewhere as well. Benjiboi New Crocker article. Banjiboi

James Kilfedder

Closeted homophobe or severely misunderstood?

See also: Peter Tatchell § OutRage.21

• Belfast Telegraph

• this one sums his homosexuality as open secret
• this editorial in ScotsGay - "Nevertheless, Outrage has been far too kind to those gay clerics and MPs like Kilfedder who have used their power to oppress us." (ties in age of consent campaign)

• Kilfedder gets letter etc. Benjiboi

police raid

I though this existed already. build one. Banjiboi

Possible ref for transgender history in the Polk

The original queer district: A brief history of the Polk's queer cred by J. PLASTER; August 29, 2007 Bay Guardian]. Banjeboi

Brandon Pereyda

start BLP? Banjeboi

twink

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PU from here. and now from here. and now from here Banjeboi Also: Google scholar Previous AfD may also have some items sources the trans connection A twink's guide to dressing a daddy a Circuit (film) connection popular London twink-haven G.A.Y. 104 stories to filter through 18 articles to filter through twink porn rolling stone mention Bel Ami as specialist Brent Corrigan twink deets and overview 56 here to sort through

Fantastic Easter Special

About 12-15 refs needed to address OR concerns. Banjeboi

Robert Mapplethorpe

Add infobox, image and start cleaning up. Banjeboi

Fudgie Frottage

add infobox. Banjeboi

for ball culture and Willi Ninja

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Deep in Vogue, a song released by Malcolm McLaren one year before the documentary film by Jennie Livingston Paris Is Burning. Madonna's "Vogue" came one year later, bringing this subculture to the mainstream audience, but it was far from the real thing. research this. Banjeboi Benny Ninja create article, part of the House - see Willi Ninja. -- Banjeboi

Start Adelante

• Adelante, a bilingual gay Latino magazine. Banjeboi

Siegfried & Roy clean-up

[6] content dropped, I think, from this large edit, re-add infoboxes and other material as appropriate. Banjeboi

Allen Schindler

source and gravestone image

story has been in film [7] Banjeboi

Design Industries Foundation Fighting AIDS

build stub. and hatnote for diffa. Banjeboi

transgendered --> trangender

All WP (portals, categories, etc. ) done except 100-250 links in articles. Start here. Banjeboi

update link [8] Banjeboi

Terminology of homosexuality

more items to be reffed. Banjeboi

new source for talkpage resources

daily voice w/Keith Boykin as editor. Banjeboi

Trikone

add infobox. Banjeboi

R Family Vacations

add logo. Banjeboi

Lesbian Avengers

add infobox. Banjeboi

GA quest - look at rewrites, barnstars and DYKs for possible GA candidates

semi-protected articles have to wait until protection and vandalism ebbs. -- Banjeboi

Andrew Furco

Research and write. -- Banjeboi

Renée Richards

Add infobox. -- Banjeboi

Duly noted

This could possibly be helpful toward explaining on-wiki trans and homo -phobias. -- Banjeboi

User:Tony1/Know your Manual of Style

worth a read. -- Banjeboi

Judicial system of Iran

review edits on Judicial system of Iran. -- Banjeboi

Jerome Caja

create. -- Banjeboi

Non-heterosexual

Nom for GA. -- Banjeboi

Fruit (slang)

Nom for GA. -- Banjeboi

The Denver Principles

recreate stealth and DYK. -- Banjeboi

Images help - for talkpage resources

• Reviewing free images
• Reviewing non-free images -- Banjeboi

ARS - add to rescued list?

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Precambrian rabbit. -- Banjeboi

another source that you might not think of

Christian Science monitor - seems conservative but in-depth. -- Banjeboi

National Immigration Law Center

Create DYK stubby. -- Banjeboi

Bear template?

see here. -- Banjeboi

Underground

Stubbyfy, ref and relaunch. User:Benjiboi/Underground culture. -- Banjeboi

"Prop 8 - The Musical"

Revive and launch. -- Banjeboi

Twirlin'

Confirm article title is most accurate (spelling, usage), clean-up lede, add refs. -- Banjeboi

Bored? Category:LGBT studies articles needing expert attention

Category:LGBT studies articles needing expert attention is always entertaining. -- Banjeboi

LGBT DYK for portal

Portal:LGBT/Did you know; convert past DYKs to the randomizer archive. -- Banjeboi

sorting out shemale, 2nd round

Butterfly metaphor [9],[10], [11], [12], [13], [14] -- Banjeboi

Good source

For politicos on a variety of issues Ontheissues.org. -- Banjeboi

Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikify

Create project banner? -- Banjeboi

Anderson Cooper

Rewrite his sexuality section, again,

• speculation prevalent, bundle the notable blogs
• called gay ..., current note is fine
• response to that speculation, - our summary of the explanation is better that the quote, attribute the interview
• criticism to that response - bundle Naff's 3? relevant articles; bundle Olberman's with where that was repeated
• follow up why Cooper avoids addressing the speculation. - Elle has a good section on this -- Banjeboi

for ARS

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Wikipedia:Article development Wikipedia:ANP#How do I get others to notice the page I just created.3F Wikipedia:Your first article, then Wikipedia:Starting an article Wikipedia:Translators available for non-English languages Template:Resources for collaboration -- Banjeboi Rescue template TBD possible NPOV one? -- Banjeboi for ARS tagging bot User talk:Wikiven#An article you created maybe deleted soon: Tools which can help you -- Banjeboi Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual For Ars. -- Banjeboi {{Findsources3}} {{Findsources3}}

Paris Hilton's new album

Draft is at User:Benjiboi/Platinum Blonde (Paris Hilton album) for when more sources appear. -- Banjeboi

{{LGBT rights in United States}}

50 state project, standardize intro with refs, state map and LGBT rights template. See also section and footer templates. Then do talkpages with project tag and proposed section outline. -- Banjeboi

See also

• Defense of Marriage Act
• Domestic partnerships in the United States
• Federal Marriage Amendment
• Freedom to Marry Coalition
• History of civil marriage in the U.S.
• List of benefits of marriage in the United States
• Marriage Protection Act
• Same-sex marriage in the United States
• Same-sex marriage legislation in the United States
• Same-sex marriage in the United States by state
• Same-sex marriage in the United States public opinion
• Same-sex marriage status in the United States by state

LGBT cat banner and project subpage

"LGBT category" mainspace banner of sorts so that those who actually look at any of the LGBT cat pages can follow a link to page that gives a simplified rationale and direction for adding people to cats. "Per _____ policy 'cats should be clearly supported by content' and per ____ policy 'content about sexual minorities must be reliably sourced'. Below are some guidelines to help determine which if any categories are appropriate and how they are organized." Create and install. -- Banjeboi

San Francisco Sex Information

Restore deleted content, refs abound. -- Banjeboi

fix my mess

add "subst" to these (less than 100). -- Banjeboi

50 left. -- Banjeboi

User:Giano/A fool's guide to writing a featured article

User:Giano/A fool's guide to writing a featured article -- Banjeboi

BFrank

[15] when the noise ebbs. -- Banjeboi

bright, articulate and productive, effective etc.

Sex reassignment surgery

Rewrite, source and restore 31 March and 1 April removals. -- Banjeboi

talk:Intersexuality

Address EL issue. -- Banjeboi

Category:Cant languages

Template? -- Banjeboi

slut night

research, refix, rewrite. -- Banjeboi

I notes possible leads

User:Benjiboi/Intersex. -- Banjeboi

Fruit (slang) talkpage

find "strange fruit" song referring to LGBT people refs. -- Banjeboi

Transgender health

Transgender health could be a lovely article overviewing issues addressing mental and physical health issues. It could overview general mental health challenges for all intersex, trans (pre-, post- and non-op) folks and summarize the various articles we already have thus exposing some of our gaps in coverage of these issues. In the physical health issues could share the challenges with finding adequate healthcare and summarize our current coverage for these various areas - again suggesting any gaps we have, etc etc; also a spiritual health vectroing off to LGBT and religion articles. -- Banjeboi

I cannot find a location for LGBT health. Am I missing something, and would it make sense to situate this there? Mish (talk) 18:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

You're so right! There is LGBT issues in medicine which can cover most of this. -- Banjeboi 19:03, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

How do we set up a redirect for 'LGBT health' to LGBT issues in medicine? Just so I know... Mish (talk) 20:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Redirect has the ... long version. The easy version is add the wikilink brackets and click on that article name. Then add #REDIRECT [[LGBT issues in medicine]] and save. -- Banjeboi 20:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

That was pretty straightforward then. Mish (talk) 23:50, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Gene Robinson BLP name dispute - recruit FA opinions asap

Per Talk:Gene_Robinson#V._Gene_Robinson.27s_birth_name. -- Banjeboi

Refer Robinson to Wikipedia:Contact us/Article problem/Factual error (from subject). -- Banjeboi

Start Rescue 101 and then link to it on new ARS template

Per this start a new "so you tagged an article" template compacted with show/hide sections:

• Is this worth keeping, appropriate, duplicated; merge might make more sense, etc
• Is this notable, verifiable
• Are these fix it issues
• If you do think it's worth keeping identify appropriate wikiprojects that may be able to find sourcing, clarity

etc. -- Banjeboi

Susan Stryker

ZOMG, she needs an article, write for DYK. -- Banjeboi

List_of_lesbian_periodicals_in_the_United_States#Year Unknown

basic ref formatting, a few sections a day ... -- Banjeboi

Done through 1991. -- Banjeboi

Year Unknown section and clean-up refs. -- Banjeboi

Julie Bindel

I've noticed that you've been drafting an entirely new Bindel article in your userspace, and seemingly ignoring the discussion page at the same time.

I think this is a bad idea - you're going to run smack into some fairly vigorous criticism when you've finished your draft if you do that, and I suspect you're going to wind up wasting a fair bit of effort, since you're just not going to get a consensus for a lot of the changes you want to make. However, if you actually work with the other editors on the talk page, I'm convinced we can come up with something that's acceptable to everyone.

For starters, I have no issue with any of your proposed extensions up until the beginning of her time at The Guardian. I also think that your summary of her most recent article is close to being acceptable, with a few minor changes. In turn, MishMich has come up with a source on the talk page that deals with a good many of my concerns about the response to Bindel's columns. If you're willing to come to the table, we can deal with the issues of weight within the section on her Guardian columns, and I'm fairly amenable to compromising so we can come up with something that works, is neutral, and acceptable to all editors concerned.

However, I can basically guarantee that your proposed Guardian section is not going to be acceptable, and you're going to have a big fight on your hands if you think you're going to try and blast it through without consensus support. If other pro-Bindel editors have seen fit to work towards a consensus solution, how about working with us all? Rebecca (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for more of the same assumptions about what I'm doing and why. Let me tell you so you don't have to guess anymore. She's apparently had 160+ articles published yet her article focusses rather heavily on one. I'm looking to review - since there are only a handful - her articles that concern her published statements on trans issues. Looks to be only a handful and dispassionately look to them from chronological and theoretical perspectives. That is, she said ___ in 2004 but later apologized however in 2007 she said ____, this hopefully will give a more accurate portrayal of her veiws. Intwertwined with that should be the nomination protest and her response to it since we have that. Someone posted a link to the protest photos and at least some of those protesters had signs having nothing to with Bindel but instead against Stonewall for being LGB rather than LGBT - which was one of her points. So it's not only in a reliable source (verifiable) but also seems to be true. Just because I haven't been engaging in blow-by-blow quibbling war of words with every statement made, as seems to be the case against what I post there by a group of determined editors, doesn't mean I'm not "at the table". Thoughtful editing, IMHO, entailing digging through reliable sources to let them speak for themselves. Cheers for the heads up though that a big fight awaits me. Regardless the article will improve, POV mud-slinging removed and unreliable sourcing stripped away. That it has been done in battle style is disappointing but at least we have that former consensus and those involved on record. That will likely come in handy as well. -- Banjeboi 20:38, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

As I've said repeatedly, I believe the article needs to be expanded so that there are no issues of undue weight, and I support any edits to that extent. My two concerns with your edits to the article thusfar has been a) your apparent tendency to veer away from neutral point of view and towards sympathetic point of view, and b) your refusal to respond to any concerns posted on the talk page, including suggestions whereby your own work could be adopted with consensus support with a few minor changes.

There also seems to be a problem that your perspective on this is not supported by the available sources. Firstly, this is not a matter of one article which she later apologised for; even the most strictest sources, and those supported by the other pro-Bindel editors on the talk page, do not support that conclusion. Secondly, for someone who has been so strong on quoting people in context, you've totally taken one quote of a Stonewall protest organiser out of context. While the protest was airing grievances with Stonewall, the catalyst for that protest was their nomination of a figure heavily associated with transphobia in Britain for an award. The two are fundamentally intertwined, and the sources make this clear. While this distinction should be mentioned in the article, it is important that the sources aren't misrepresented to try and slant the article.

I have no problem with thoughtful editing, digging through reliable sources, or letting them speak for themselves. I do, however, have a problem with the way this has worked out in practice; specifically, as I noted above, what I feel is your tendency to use sympathetic point of view instead of neutral point of view. I also believe, however, that quite a bit of your writing on the disputed sections could be adopted with consensus support with a few changes, should you be so willing. This can only occur if you will actually discuss such changes, however; you have so far shown a tendency to try and ram your drafts unchanged through without consensus. I would like to see a draft of this article that everyone involved - you included - is happy with. Unfortunately, this is simply not possible unless you take a less belligerent stance towards the other editors of the article. Rebecca (talk) 16:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Oy vey. We'll have to agree to disagree a bit here. I've been correcting some rather unbalanced negative content to be more NPOV - it's still undue but that can be fixed to an extent. You apparent see me as sympathetic or even "pro-Bindel", which I'm not. I've also responded to every question and concern ften repeating myself but I will continue there despite these negative characterizing of my work and intentions. My nly concern is follwing BLP policies, I had never even heard of Bindel until i looked at the article - this is surprising because the article suggests she's enemy #1 which doesn't seem to be true. Instead her views on some trans issues are seen as offensive by sometrans activists. It's fine that we state this but we shouldn't conflate something t be what it isn't - either positive or negative to a subject, especially negative and contentious material on a BLP. This has been the core issue from moment one and seems unlikely to change from being the core issue. -- Banjeboi 17:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I have relocated the draft to my own user area to work on. It is mostly formating citations, following up refs, wrapping text around them, and accommodating sugegstions from the discussion page. Ironically, although the rest of the article has expanded to reflect her wider corpus of writing and work, the trans section appears to have expanded as well.Mish (talk) 17:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Cheers, wonderful work so far. I'd rather not interupt things but let me know if/when I can trim a bit. I think you have extra section titles but thse may just be for organizing efforts - duh! wish I'd thought of that. I'm having a low drama tolerance lately but piles of wikignoning don't scare me. If you want all the refs converted or anything let me know. -- Banjeboi 18:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm working through the citations as I pull the sections together, it isn't that onerous, just takes time. Yes, I'm pulling the core sections together from the different sections, and it leaves us with about 5 or 6 main themes. I think the trans section works better within an LGBT section, because that way the feminist, lesbian, gay and trans 'issue' kind of lead you through to the more recent rejection of the LGBT movement and retrenchment into traditional radical lesbian feminism that came out of it all. Not entirely surprising considering her proximity to Jeffries & Dworkin. Fascinating stuff. it's in the same place in my user area as you had it in yours. Mish (talk) 22:38, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I have done most of it, and formated the citations I have put in, as well as a few others. Needs a bit of work checking they are formated properly, as well as some of the others, and not duplicated but with consistent ref names throughout where duplicated. No doubt can be slimmed. It is under Julie Bindel in my area, feel free to copy back to your area to edit, then it can go back to the discussion page. Thanks, Mish (talk) 11:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Had to break, will look there in a bit. -- Banjeboi 01:28, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Tks. Let me know if there's stuff I need to attend to, & when you've finished, & I'll post it up on the talk page. Mish (talk) 23:50, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

WP:ARS

• move cat to items
• update template(s)
• update bot
• create rescue 101 page with section just on templates
• modify ((tl|Rescue)) with template-specific parameters so displays template info rather than article info
• update project page to reflect changes, etc. -- Banjeboi

Violence against LGBT people

Hi Benjiboi. I was doing a thorough, item-by-item edit of this article a while back but never got all the way through, so it's nice to have some good help. One of your edits inserted the word "promimally"; I'm not sure what you meant. (Proximally? Proximately? Prominently? Nominally? It was fun guessing but none of them made especially good sense!) Btw, there's a thread on the talk page about splitting the list off into a separate article. I think this makes some sense, and now that Homosexuality is in reasonably tolerable shape, I might have time to work on it. Your help would be much appreciated, especially in trying to flesh out the main article, which would be pretty short after a split. Rivertorch (talk) 16:36, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Fixed and replied. -- Banjeboi 01:35, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

"Proximally close" sounds a little strange, don't you think? Rivertorch (talk) 04:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, perhaps. It's technically accurate - situated close to : proximate - but any better wording that means the same? -- Banjeboi 17:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I generally think of proximal as a technical term in anatomy, although I see that AHD does show it as a synonym of proximate. Then again, AHD defines proximate as "very near or next," and that doesn't quite work for Mauritania or perhaps Nigeria, either. In any case, "proximally close" is redundant. Do you think it's critical to note that the countries are all in the Middle East or northern Africa? I'm not sure, but if so, we might say just that. Rivertorch (talk) 19:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Seems relevant, so "clustered in the Middle East and northern Africa"? -- Banjeboi 20:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd skip "clustered," since some of them aren't really, but otherwise that sounds fine. Sorry if I seem to be nitpicking, but let's get it as precise as we can now while things are still relatively serene. It has been a lovely calm before the storm, but I fear the skirmishes are beginning again. Rivertorch (talk) 21:43, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Bring it on! Lol! Yes, the dramahz do seem to be consistently predictable but at the end of it - one by one - our articles improve! -- Banjeboi 21:47, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Somewhat related, read Scjessey (talk · contribs)'s section called Wikipedia and bias. That's the best I have seen anyone explain how nutjobs game the system. They claim the moral high ground, yet they employ cheating and lying as normal tactics to achieve their goals. <--So true. - ALLST✰R▼^echo _{wuz here @} 21:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

And oh yeah, I'm famous! Jody = Me! - ALLST✰R▼^echo _{wuz here @} 22:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Lol! I recall reading how "you are the change the world needs" and "change the world by changing yourself" infuriated old-school social conservatives who adhere to patriarchal top-down leadership. "Hippie Crap Saves The World: Can better orgasms and upping your personal vibe really thwart BushCo idiocy?" is quite a gem. -- Banjeboi 22:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

You gay boys - always the chicken! -- Banjeboi 22:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Topic ban

As I mentioned before, do you think a straw poll over a topic banning certain disruptive editors is in order? Please respond here. Thanks. Ikip (talk) 09:48, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Straw poll won't help much. If you want to invest energy into it perhaps start a subpage regarding the chief one's disruptions showing a pattern of disruption. I suggest chronological and sticking more minor "called all ARS inclusionists" and "accuses people of canvassing" in subsections. -- Banjeboi 01:42, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

that is a great idea. thanks. I never thought about doing this way. Once I have that list what would I do with it? Do you ever check you know what? :) I don't think you do. :( Ikip (talk) 02:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Then we invite a few neutral editors to see what their take on it is. It should be prefaced with a generalized although criticisms have always been embraced and many improvements to ARS have been made from constructive comments... and some concerns are reasonable and worth due consideration ... there is, however, a pattern which has been evident that goes beyond the patience of any Wikiproject whether directed at a few editors or generalized at an entire project. Harrassment and incivility is generally toxic and counters consensus-building and long-term problem solving. No one should have to try to maintain productive and stressful editing - the majority of all ARS work concerns XfD activity with tight deadlines - while being disparaged and vilified across multiple forums especially over a longterm when concerns have been raised and answered repeatedly. Would anyone want to be continually asked "When will you stop beating your dog?" when it was reponded to in full the first time. ARS is not interested in being the battleground or referee in the ongoing inclusionist/deletionist battles. Take it elsewhere, we have better things to do. Just some thoughts. -- Banjeboi 09:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

That sentence

Grrr . . . you've restored the sentence—"Same sex couples are not capable of sexual reproduction"—that finally went away. Rivertorch (talk) 00:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Well remove it until consensus is to add it; the rest of that edit was fixing multiple issues. I'm not terribly bothered if it's there - kinda don't see the need personally - but if it has to be then it should be contextualized and integrated. Take it away of you want. I won't fight it. -- Banjeboi 00:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Possible solution to the continued harrassment

How about we have a straw poll on the ARS talk page proposing that any editor at anytime can delete any accusations of canvassing, and that the role of ARS is not x. What do you think? Ikip (talk) 05:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I think that's just as problematic. Personally I'd rather have it on record rather than deleted. Sadly, it looks like we'll eventually have a history of ARS which is dovetailed with a history f ARS being accused of ____. If it's short and punchy it may be a good read. -- Banjeboi 09:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Its in the edit history. :( So the only solution is a more direct one, with me finding edit histories, etc.? See my question above. What do we do with the edit histories once we have them? Ikip (talk) 09:48, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Add Hollie Steel to the list. AMIB has been edit-warring to remove rescue tag. (sigh). Once we build a timeline I think next steps will lead us toward a logicl route. -- Banjeboi 12:53, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Empty feeling in my stomache, followed by deep gratitude

In stressful times like these, I cringe when I see "you have a message". I was so pleasantly surprised when I recieved this barnstar Ben, thank you. It means so much from you, especially now. I think this is the moment when our differences of the past are finally behind us, and although we are both stubborn and have many fierce differences of opinion, we are truly working together as a team now. Thanks a million, I am glad you waited so long to do this. You picked the absolute best time you possibly could have given me this barnstar. Thank you.Ikip (talk) 12:31, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

You're very welcome, for what it's worth I don't really remember us being adversarial. Very few editors cut so deep they make a negative impression like that. -- Banjeboi 12:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

3RR

Benjiboi and A Man in Black, you are both edit warring over a tag on Hollie Steel, and (if my count is correct) are both at three reverts during the last 24 hours (plus some before that as well). Please stop it, both of you, and seek some other form of dispute resolution. Fram (talk) 12:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Fram, I stopped already and went to AMIB's talkpage. FWIW I intend to help AMIB just as we clarified that TfD's can use the rescue template. -- Banjeboi 12:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Benjiboi, I explicitly posted to both pages at the same time. It is hard to judge if people have stopped when the last reverts were only twenty minutes ago in an editwar that started days before. And I don't disparage "all things ARS", I disparage the use of the ARS by some people to gather keep votes for everything they like. And your statements two sections up '"Possible solution to the continued harrassment") don't give the impression that you are trying to help AMiB: you don't need to help it, that's not the point, but to claiml that that is your intention seems rather bizarre. Fram (talk) 13:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough on 3rr. I really don't see AMIB as an adversary as much as someone whose style I feel is counter-intuitive to consensus building and cooperative projects. They easily may feel the same about my style. And they may or may not accept consensus, I guess I should clarify that I intend to help clarify the use of the rescue tag on DrV. I was something that I was also initially opposed to but in actually doing rescue work saw the needs for it. No matter, the work continues and I'm in no rush. -- Banjeboi 13:48, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

The specific article issue is moot, as I currently find Banje's argument more convincing than the one I had. I was too focused on the weakened reasons to tag the article that I missed the dramatically weakened reasons not to. I have some thoughts on criteria for using {{rescue}}, but they're not fully-formed enough at the moment to share. I'm not even sure that they're necessary. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 14:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad some agrement has been reached and no more edit warring is happening. I would be pleased to announce that my intervention has helped, if only it hadn't come after the end of the edit war and the beginning of the discussion. In the end, it was an unnecessary distraction. Such is life, I suppose :-) Fram (talk) 14:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Chillax

moved from user talk ikip:

You have some very valid points but so do those who disagree with you. May I suggest just taking a big ol breather for a bit? Things are getting over-heated and we want ARS to be a healthy stress of rescuing articles under timeline pressure as opposed to locked positions with one another. It's likely to be messy for a week or so but I think in a day or two we should have some forward movement to bring some calmness and clarity. Meanwhile I don't want to see anyone bruised or stressed out. We need you, we want you, blah blah blah. -- Banjeboi 16:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

where can we talk privately? Ikip (talk) 16:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)