Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 November 30

November 30

Category:Arabian people of Persian descent

Propose renaming Category:Arabian people of Persian descent to Category:Arab people of Iranian descent

Nominator's rationale: Rename. The main categories are Category:Arab people and Category:People of Iranian descent. TM 14:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Rename per nom, to match head article. It is also clear from contents of the category and its sub-categories that it relates to Arab people generally, not just Arabian people (those pertaining to the Arabian peninsula). JackJud (talk) 15:00, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
• Possibly delete We do have an article on Iranian Arabs but if I follow it correctly it's actually about Arabs who happen to live in Iran, making the category perhaps "Iranian people of Arabic descent". I also note that judging from some of the entries there is confusion about exactly who ought be in this category. Mangoe (talk) 15:10, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:University of Alaska alumni

Propose merging Category:University of Alaska alumni to Category:University of Alaska Fairbanks alumni

Nominator's rationale: merge - Parent article redirects to University of Alaska System, an administrative unit. Diplomas pre-1975 may state "University of Alaska," but it's the same institution as the University of Alaska Fairbanks.RadioKAOS (talk) 11:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Keep unless the nom can explain what is to be done with Category:University of Alaska Anchorage alumni. Occuli (talk) 11:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

For whatever reason, I was limited from posting a longer explanation. Now that I think about it, this category can be useful as a catch-all. However, it's mostly being used by "lazy" editors for persons who graduated from the University of Alaska Fairbanks pre-1975, before the creation of the University of Alaska Anchorage and University of Alaska Juneau (now Southeast), when the same institution was known as (and the diplomas read) the "University of Alaska." The page "University of Alaska" redirects to University of Alaska System, an adminstrative bureacracy which (to the very best of my knowledge) awards no diplomas. They carry out the administration of statewide public higher education as "ordained" under Sections 2 and 3, Article 7 of the Alaska Constitution.

Not only is UAS not covered by a separate category, but neither is Prince William Sound Community College in Valdez, which is an actual community college and not a branch campus of one of the three main campuses, and enjoys a degree of autonomy as a result. Some graduates could also conceivably not fit in a specific campus category, despite attending those campuses. To keep from you having to take all day to read this, some housekeeping would probably work, though some of it borders on doing other people's jobs for them.RadioKAOS (talk) 13:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:Alaska State Senators

Propose renaming Category:Alaska State Senators to Category:Members of the Alaska Senate

Nominator's rationale: rename - Parent article changed from Alaska State Senate to Alaska Senate; in line with Category:Members of the Alaska Legislature and Category:Members of the Alaska House of Representatives.RadioKAOS (talk) 11:27, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:French-language operettas

Category:French-language operettas - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete. This cat was created on 17 October. (Prior to that the articles were in Category:French-language operas.) Operetta is a genre of opera, both as published generally, and as organized on WP.

For French opera, we have a number of specific, creator-defined genre cats (many of them associated with Offenbach's designations, see here). In the case of Category:French-language operettas it's not clear what is included in the cat and what isn't. Are early forms in, or only later works (Hahn/Messager etc)? Is a 'French-language operetta' equivalent to an opérette or applied more widely?

I recommend restoring this particular set of articles to Category:French-language operas and deleting Category:French-language operettas. (An alternative would be to rename it as Category:Opérettes, a cat which might have been created anyway.) Kleinzach 09:53, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose unless someone is willing to go into operetta and remove all references to Jacques Offenbach. We at present more or less define French operetta according to his works, so I have a hard time understanding why Orpheus in the Underworld for instance is by exclusion being claimed not to be an operetta. Mangoe (talk) 15:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:British Whigs

Propose renaming Category:British Whigs to Category:Whig (British political party)

Nominator's rationale: Rename. Suggest renaming to match main article Whig (British political party). Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 08:24, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:Pseudoalcippe

Category:Pseudoalcippe - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: This category is a genus of birds. The genus has only one species, so the cat will only have one article. Article can be moved to family cat. Just one of many useless cats automatically created by a bot that started a bunch of species articles. IceCreamAntisocial (talk) 06:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:People from Washington, Maine

Propose merging Category:People from Washington, Maine to Category:People from Knox County, Maine

Nominator's rationale: Merge. category for people from a very small town (1,345 people in 2000) with extremely limited potential to grow. TM 06:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Keep Actually three is a lot from what I have experienced in my rather interesting hobby of late (creating these darned categories). What is there to say that we don't have a few others out there who are from the town but no one has made the connection to either add the brand new category or just place them on the page? There is no harm in letting this category sit there for a few months and come back then and see what arises. Also, for that many people that is quite a lot. I know of a town with over five hundred more and they only produced one famous person. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 06:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Three may be a lot for a small town, but it is not useful for Wikipedia. See WP:SMALLCAT.--TM 14:47, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:Cycle types

Propose renaming Category:Cycle types to Category:Cycles

Nominator's rationale: Why we have a category for cycle types but not on cycles is a mystery to me. And, say, why don't we have an article on cycles? I might have to write it. Marcus Qwertyus 05:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Actually Category:Cycles is not a good name since it is ambiguous. Motor cycles? Solar cycles? Financial cycles? Category names need to be unambiguous. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:13, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• (e/c)Keep - "Cycles" is ambiguous. Additionally there is already Category:Cycling with an extensive sub-category tree and matching article. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:SDLP

Propose renaming Category:SDLP to Category:Social Democratic and Labour Party

Nominator's rationale: Rename. Suggest renaming to avoid abbreviation and to match main article Social Democratic and Labour Party. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. JackJud (talk) 15:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Eponymous political party categories

Nominator's rationale: Delete. Each of these eponymous categories for political parties contains exactly one article and one subcategory. In each case, the article is the main articles of the same name and the subcategory is the category for politicians (or in some cases, members) of the party. I've monitored all of these for a number of months now and as far as I can tell nothing else has been added to or taken out of the categories. There are some good reasons to have an eponymous category for a political party; in general have no problem with them existing, but if this is all they include, they act only as a barrier—rather than an aid—to navigation. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:31, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Sam Blacketer (talk) 10:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
• Keep Union of the Democratic Centre (Spain), aka UCD, Delete the rest. In the case of the UCD, I've added 5 articles to the cat. The party itself was an alliance of convenience formed in the immediate post Franco period. It brought together some 15 to 20 parties and when it splintered 6 years later a similar number of parties where created. If any of the articles on those parties get created they can be added there. Valenciano (talk) 13:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
• Keep I don't see how this hinders navigation, since you can navigate the political party category tree with these, if they are removed, you'd have to navigate the politicians category tree. 76.66.202.72 (talk) 15:33, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:Russian language operettas

Category:Russian language operettas - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete. Similar entries are hyphenated, so this one needs changing, however on reflection I wonder whether it is needed at all. There is only one item in the cat. The genre is really 'operetta' not 'Russian operetta'. Kleinzach 04:10, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Keep and add hypen. This is simply a matter of a typo in the category name -- it needs a hyphen to conform to the other subcategories in Category:Operettas. There are numerous operettas in the Russian language (they merely currently lack English Wiki articles), so the category should remain. Softlavender (talk) 05:54, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:Hungarian-language operettas

Propose renaming Category:Hungarian-language operettas to Category:Hungarian operettas

Nominator's rationale: Rename. Hungarian operettas (i.e. operettas by Hungarians) are not necessarily in Hungarian. Many of them were in German (e.g. Das Veilchen vom Montmartre), and there were also numerous English adaptations. (I was minded to recommend deletion as the recognized genre per se is the 'operetta' irrespective of language. IMO this subject is overcategorized.). Kleinzach 04:03, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Keep. This category is for operettas in the Hungarian language. It follows the conventions of the other subcategories of Category:Operettas. Operettas written by Hungarians in other languages are listed in the appropriate language subcategory. It is common for persons of one nationality to compose or write operettas or operas in another language, and as composer and lyricist are often of two different nationalities, language is the only logical way to categorize. Any miscategorization (the one noted was miscategorized by User:Nrswanson in September 2008) can be removed from the category. Softlavender (talk) 05:54, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Keep. "Operettas by Hungarians" is inconsistent with the opera categories, as well as being to my mind much less interesting than a category for Hungarian-language works. Sparafucil (talk) 06:24, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:2011 singles

Category:2011 singles - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale. Category does not belong yet as it contains no songs and will not untill at least another month. Anything added there before 2011 is WP:CRYSTAL and probably fails WP:NSONGS. STATic message me! 03:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Keep. What's the point in deleting it when in a few weeks it will have loads of articles in it? This seems absolutely pointless as in a couple of weeks it will definitely be created again and will be exactly the same! Mhiji (talk) 04:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
• Comment Then it should have been created then. There are no deadlines here STATic message me! 04:44, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps it shouldn't have been created yet. But nominating it for deletion does just seem to be a waste of everyone's time... Mhiji (talk) 04:47, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:Indian reservations in Montana

Category:Indian reservations in Montana - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale. As a sub-category of Category:American Indian reservations in Montana this category is redundant. Its two entries easily fit into the parent category and there is no distinquishing characteristic between this category (.. Indian reservations in...) and its parent (...American Indian reservations in ...).--Mike Cline (talk) 02:52, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Upmerge and delete per nom. - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 03:44, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:2011 songs

Category:2011 songs - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale. Category does not belong yet as it contains no songs and will not untill at least another month. STATic message me! 00:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Keep – au contraire, it already contains 3 songs. Besides it will be vast in a few weeks so deletion would be but a fleeting achievement. And it's not tagged. Occuli (talk) 01:03, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Those songs were all either non-noteable or did not belong in the category. Anything added there before 2011 is WP:CRYSTAL STATic message me! 03:52, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Keep. What's the point in deleting it when in a few weeks it will have loads of articles in it? This seems absolutely pointless as in a couple of weeks it will definitely be created again and will be exactly the same! Mhiji (talk) 04:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
• Comment Then it should have been created then. There are no deadlines here STATic message me! 04:44, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps it shouldn't have been created yet. But nominating it for deletion does just seem to be a waste of everyone's time... Mhiji (talk) 04:47, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Category:Transport disasters by country

Category:Transport disasters by country - Template:Lc1

Move to "Transport incidents by country."

Nominator's rationale. The category suffers from media-like promotion as one moves up from the lowest level. For example, CSX 8888 incident is listed under two Railway Accident categories. The Category:Maritime incidents, along with the previous "Accident" categories are both rolled up into this disaster category. The category far overstates the nature of the reports that are included, resulting in, essentially, "category by media hype." Student7 (talk) 19:59, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

• Comment. None of the country-specific subcategories are tagged or included in this CFR, nor is this category's parent, Category:Transport disasters, or its siblings, Category:Transport disasters by continent or Category:Transport disasters by year. That aside, Category:Aviation accidents and incidents by country might provide a good example to follow if "disaster" is considered hyberbolic, but this is also part of a Category:Disasters by country scheme, so I don't know. postdlf (talk) 20:32, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Rename to Category:Transportation accidents and incidents by country, and possibly re-establish a - rather more selective - Category:Transport disasters by country for those that are actually, y'know, disasters as opposed to oh **** moments. - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 00:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

• Keep – this is a subcat scheme for Category:Transport disasters and it makes no sense whatever to rename it. (Nothing is tagged.) Renaming Category:Transport disasters (followed by all subcats and subcat schemes) would make sense. Occuli (talk) 18:35, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

• The parent category is problematic because some of the subcats are "disasterous" (as it were) but many are not. There's no differentiation in the marine or aircraft category trees, for instance, even between fatal incidents and averted catastrophes. Mangoe (talk) 20:19, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

• Comment. I've gone back and redefined about 30 categories I was aware of so they wouldn't be upgraded from "incidents" to "disasters." There are perhaps several hundred others that are just beyond my energy level and interest. Someone should have caught this a lot sooner. At least in the aviation categories they had the collective "accidents and incidents" but they, too were "upgraded" to disasters further up in the chain of categorization. Hmph. Student7 (talk) 13:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

---

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — ξ^xplicit 00:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Relisting note. Category was not properly tagged; done now. — ξ^xplicit 00:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• keep as is The parent categories are Transportation and Country, and all their subcats, none of which are being renamed. 'Disaster' is the proper word here; 'incidents' is the public relations/coverup word. Hmains (talk) 03:10, 30 November 2010 (UTC)