Talk:Bring Me the Horizon

Use of 'whom'.

Under the 'YouTube video with Architects' section, there is the statement: ". . . causing many to send hate mail towards Carter, whom later made it clear in an interview with Kerrang! that the whole thing was a joke, as did Sykes." This in fact should be 'who', not whom. Please edit this (I cannot, as the article is semi-protected). Thanks. 146.87.52.50 (talk) 02:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done --KЯĀŽΨÇÉV13 01:21, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

It's back. It says "whom". I too believe this is an incorrect use of 'whom'. 46.126.101.121 (talk) 09:19, 16 April 2012 (UTC) (lKj)

Should Oli Sykes get his own article?

He has done guest vocals for notable groups like Deez Nuts and You Me At Six along with being BMTH's frontman, so does he qualify for a Wiki article? 99.153.87.193 (talk) 08:55, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Well if Matt Tuck can get one.... VampireKilla (Talk) 20:46, June 29 2011 (BST) —Preceding undated comment added 19:46, 29 June 2011 (UTC).

also try the redirect discussion page here to request it. If you dont' do it today, though, change the date to the date in which you make the request.VampireKilla (talk) 18:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request submitted. Jonjonjohny (talk) 18:55, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

This article needs assistance and has been spiraling downwards

It's pretty depressing how much of this article got delete for not being well written, origonal reaserch, not source and all those kinds of problems but the real shame is in how little of this article remains since they deleted the majority of the articles work and never replaced it with better written work. This article needs a significant rewrite in order to be good again, it needs sources and to be better written. Here is the idea of what to do: The History secion needs a significant re-write. split it back into its three sections. To save time for some I have put the last version of the article before being cropped down here. And I'm not saying just copy and paste the old version. I mean take the old information, the old sources and add extra pieces. I look forward to seeing if anybody shares my anticipation to improve this article. and besides it's summer now, you have plenty of time to do this guys. Jonjonjohny (talk) 10:30, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

• Yeah, take it back to that one but include parts of the current page that have been added (members appearing on other albums (e.g. YM@6, Admiral's Arms, Deez Nuts) etc.) and I also think the other projects (Purple Curto, Womb 2 da Tomb, Olisaurus (Oli Has a Deathwish)) should get a mention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VampireKilla (talk • contribs) 18:36, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Previous Sykes projects

Oli Sykes has been drummer singer for a band called Purple Curto and a member of rap group Womb 2 Da Tomb with his brother Tom and Matt Nicholls. All I can find though is Last.FM stuff and Myspace profiles (http://www.myspace.com/purplecurto and http://www.myspace.com/womb2datomb) but the vocals are pretty distinguishable. Also it already gets mentioned in the Discography page with its own side projects section, why can't it be put in the main article? VampireKilla (talk) 19:19, 29 June 2011 (BST)

I know it's oli voice but if you look nothing has been added in four years, five years for the hip-hop stuff. its just a bunch of guys screwing about and hit is a waste of information on myspace let alone wikipedia. they never had any success other than with their fanbase when count your blessings came out. Purple Curto was between oli and his ex girlfriends brother, i repeat EX. meaning they havent done anything for a reason. if for some mirical you find a source that is their own pages it would make sense but even then they have no point being on this page. And also they're crap anyway.Jonjonjohny (talk) 18:36, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Just because they're crap doesn't mean they don't deserve a mention. It happened, even you acknowledge it. Therefore I feel it should get a mention, even if it's just one short sentence in the "Early years"/"Background" section. Anyway Purple Curto is probably one of (if not the only one of) Oli's first ventures into performing metal.VampireKilla (talk) 19:42, 29 June 2011 (BST)

If you were to create a Oliver Sykes article "Purple Curto" and "Womb 2 Da Tomb" and the other side projects would proberbly deserve a more in depth mention in there these projects dont affect the band as a whole. This Last.fm article give some of his story but DO NOT source last.fm; fact check all of it. Jonjonjohny (talk) 13:31, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

achieved

achieved, not acheived — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.167.54.37 (talk) 00:54, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out, I fixed it. Jer ^{Hit me up} 03:21, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

s/there/their/

"There" should be "their" in this sentence: "and there earlier work is noted" 94.171.245.148 (talk) 04:14, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

 Done cheers for pointing it out. Jonjonjohny (talk) 11:35, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Objectivity

his article does not come across as being particularly objective. For a good example of an objective band related article look at napalm death Fredmest (talk) 15:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Is there a reason you started a talk page section for this? Jonjonjohny (talk) 16:33, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

ALBUM NOT MENTIONED

Where is Bring Me The Horizon's ACTUAL first Album: 'This is What the Edge of Your Seat Was Made For?" ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? DannyMahoney (talk) 01:00, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

'This Is What the Edge of Your Seat Was Made For' is generally considered an extended as it is only four tracks. It has it's own paragraph in the early history section and there is a link in the discography section. Jonjonjohny (talk) 10:04, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Deathcore in the musical style section

So there is a clash over the use of deathcore in being described as a genre Bring Me The Horizon actively played by the band. There are two, reliable sources that use deathcore in a general description of the band's style. This has been contested by me and Gunmetal Angel for a small period and it's best to take it to the talk page. Personally I find that even if a genre is controversial or redundant it's important to include it anyway then elaborate in the text at what point they were playing that style of music in that period of history. So this is to gain consensus. Here are the two opening statements for the musical style section:

My edit: "Bring Me the Horizon is universally recognized as a metalcore band, as well as being acknowledged as deathcore. The band's debut album Count Your Blessings, was regarded as mainly deathcore album as the band started to adopt a more eclectic style afterwards."

Gunmetal Angel's edit: "Bring Me the Horizon is universally recognized as a metalcore band. Aside from this, the band's debut album Count Your Blessings was regarded as a deathcore release." Jonjonjohny (talk) 18:06, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

They don't play deathcore anymore and there's even a source that says so. I just don't get why the most sensible thing can't be put on this page because you're against it. • GunMetal Angel 04:02, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

How is it not sensible to take into account all the genres this band has played as? You can read a musical style section for articles like blink-182 where punk rock is sourced despite being not representative of their style now. Can you produce this source that says they don't play deathcore anymore? Because saying there is a source means nothing. I also know of a source from November 2010 publication of Metal Hammer describing their third album has having influences from deathcore and dubstep. But I'm not going to create a citation for it because the issue is long gone and I cannot quote it. Also I found a biography from MusicMight that calls them deathcore. Jonjonjohny (talk) 10:58, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Obviously that's why I'm saying my version of the page that I wrote in which actually brings clarity that they don't play deathcore anymore is much better than the confusing, sloppy run-on that it has (and for some reason you want to keep) that says "however the band started to adopt a more eclectic style afterwards." Like I said; everybody knows they don't play deathcore anymore and thus I see no reason why it can't say just that on the article. Also, keep in mind the source that says so was found here where Oli Sykes said "deathcore is on its last leg" when interviewed about the recording process for Suicide Season. • GunMetal Angel 04:56, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

That "source" you have produced is a dead link, and I don't think that in the tedious hunt through the Bring Me tag on metal hammer for sources did I ever see an article of Oli saying that (but you know, I may well be wrong). I've posted on the talk pages of a few other editors as clearly this needs more than two opinions. And to say "they don't play deathcore any more" is unsourced opinion, just like "everybody knows they don't play deathcore any more". Deathcore is metalcore with death metal influences right? well they are said to be diversely influenced by death metal, grindcore, and emo and Jona has personally cited At The Gates as an influence. There are three reliable sources which highlight this band as a deathcore band (including the two sourcing the genre and the music might source as shown above). Jonjonjohny (talk) 17:32, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I was invited to partake in this discussion. While I don't particularly care what genre this band is eventually described as, I can say it's very incorrect to say what a band is "universally" described as. This implies every person on the planet believes Bring Me the Horizon is a metalcore band. Even if you found a source that said they're universally described as metalcore, I would find this an impossible claim as musical genres are completely subjective traits. You probably shouldn't be using blink-182 as an example of what should be done in this section. That article is only a B-class and likely hasn't been very well peer-reviewed. A better example of how to write a musical style section would be featured-class articles like: Nine Inch Nails#Musical characteristics and lyrics, Nirvana (band)#Musical style, Meshuggah#Musical style or Radiohead#Style and songwriting. Note that few featured articles (if any at all) straight up say "this band plays this genre." They give a more comprehensive approach that examine musical influences, show how a band's style has changed over time, and bring in the opinions of reviewers while also making it clear that these is are simply opinions (generally opening with John Doe of That Publication said...). It's also horribly flawed to say "everybody knows they don't play deathcore anymore". Readers come to Wikipedia because they generally don't know something about a given subject and want to learn more. Fezmar9 (talk) 19:07, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I was asked by Jonjonjohny to comment on this discussion, so I will give my thoughts. Fezmar already made my first point, but that was when I was in the middle of composing this and got an edit conflict. Anyway, this is what I think. First, I don't like the "universal" claim, as it appears unsourced unless mentioned in the Kerrang! article, which I do not have access to. Unless the Kerrang! article says that the metalcore label is universal, that claim should be removed. Second, while deadlinks can be acceptable, usually first-party sources should be avoided when describing a band's genre, as often genre is used as a marketing and/or promotional tool. It would be okay to mention that Oli Syke's said that he considers the band to be moving away from deathcore, if that is what he actually said, or that the band opposes that label all together. As far as I can see, both metalcore and deathcore should be mentioned, though the sentence structure could use some major improvement. If Oli Sykes said that the band no longer considers itself deathcore, than that is worth mentioning. But extreme caution should be used to not apply original research to what he said, so it would be best to just use an exact quote.--¿3family6 _contribs 19:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

influences

Influences cited for Bring Me The Horizon come from genres like hardcore punk, death metal, grindcore, metalcore, some extreme metal and gothic metal and even some thrash metal and a little bit of nu metal. Bands include Slipknot, In Flames, Carcass, Killswitch Engage, hatebreed, converge, napalm death, and cradle of filth. TheMetallican (Talk)

I undid you edit of adding these bands as influences and quoted content from an interview. The issue with the influenced section of AllMusic is that they never go into detail in how those bands influence said artist. Not only that but the band themselves don't say who has influenced them. It's like sourcing the genres they put in the side heavy metal, death metal & grindcore don't exactly pinpoint this band because AllMusic doesn't use a lot of tags like metalcore. This band hasn't personally cited bands as influences for each album, just styles and aesthetics. And that Ultimate guitar interview as a source is useful, but needs to be incorporated a bit better. And also please sign you posts with the four tildes (~) Jonjonjohny (talk) 23:21, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 9 July 2012

Oliver Sykes belongs to Celeste

Cumtwat (talk) 06:53, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Ryan Vesey Review me! 15:37, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Jordan Fish

I think we should say he joined in 2012. Even now there's been no official announcement of his joining, just a "by the way he's definitely in the band for those who were wondering" when Jona left. If he appears credited as a full member in the liner notes for Sempiternal then it's definite that he's been a member since 2012 as the album's been done for a while. VampireKilla (talk) 10:07, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

We all know that Jona left in 2012. Using your logic then are you saying Jona left in 2012? As the album was done at 2012 and he has contributed to it, but no he left this year.

Plus even though Jordan contributed to the album it can be seen as he was a touring / session member. A example of another band doing this that I can think of is Green Day. Their trilogy albums, ¡Uno!, ¡Dos! and ¡Tré! with the joining of fourth member Jason White. He has contributed to those albums but he was only claimed as official member after the albums were done. --121.216.15.125 (talk) 10:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC)