User talk:Sumatro

August 2013

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. I'm Jingiby. I wanted to let you know that I undid your recent contributions because they didn't appear constructive. If you believe the info you have added was an improvement, please discuss the changes on the article's talk page before making them again. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 17:51, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Your recent editing history on Bulgarians shows that you tend currently to be engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. Jingiby (talk) 18:17, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

1. Add four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment; or
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This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.

Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 16:42, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Sumatro, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi Sumatro! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Technical 13 (I'm a Teahouse host) Visit the Teahouse This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

1. Add four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment; or
2. With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button ( or ) located above the edit window.

This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.

Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 05:28, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Please read WP:OVERLINK and stop linking to well-known words such as "Canada" and "English". If you continue to do so your edits will be seen as disruptive and you will be blocked from editing. Also, read WP:3RR which states you will be blocked for edit warring. Also read WP:OPENPARA which specifically states we are not to put the place of birth in the opening paragraph. Continuing to add that information will also be seen as being disruptive and can lead to you being blocked. I have left the article in a neutral state of compromise without any nationalistic claims. Do not revert again. Either add reliable sources or participate in the discussion on the talk page and achieve a new consensus. SQGibbon (talk) 21:26, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Now that I read WP:OPENPARA again it does not require her to be a citizen of Canada but a permanent resident (which is amply sourced throughout the rest of the article) and where she was located when she became notable. If you think more information should be added then discuss it on the talk page first. SQGibbon (talk) 21:31, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:59, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Middle Ages

Your recent editing history at Middle Ages shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. Graham Colm (talk) 00:00, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

You could present your version in a user page and discuss it. Changes to a featured article during discussion on the talk is not a good idea, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:31, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Hchc2009 (talk) 13:48, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  only (talk) 14:29, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Notice of discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Edit Warring..

From your last edit, I note that you've continued the pattern of edit-warring behaviour from yesterday at the Middle Ages. Please stop, and gain consensus on the talk page first. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:21, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

OK, let's see your arguments!--Sumatro (talk) 16:30, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Look at the talk page. You've been given plenty of advice there but you don't seem to be listening. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 16:36, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you.

December 2013

You have been blocked from editing for a period of one week for resumption of edit warring after expiration of last block, as you did at Middle Ages. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.  Bbb23 (talk) 17:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Middle Ages

Hi there. I see you have been in trouble before regarding your editing behaviour at this article. Can I implore you to discuss and achieve consensus at the article's talk page for your proposal that there should be a longer coverage of Bulgarian matters? Can I also ask you not to add tags to a Featured Article unless there is real reason to do so? Thanks a lot. --John (talk) 19:25, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm here to back up what John has said. The article has already received FA status, and is an important article. It is not good to add a banner like that, because, in general, it is an excellent article. The bias, which is clear to you, is to be expected in an English language article on an English encyclopedia.

• Keep discussing it on the talk page. Don't give up and go away.
• It is best not to make the changes yourself, because if they are not written in perfect English expression, they will be deleted on those grounds.
• Adding four images that are regionally specific is not a good approach.
• When adding an image to any article, the first rule is to look. If every image on the page (except the lede image and the maps) is thumbnail size, then do not make your image the biggest on the page.
• Understand, as I have said to you already, this is not about a specific, directed "prejudice". It is about "insularity", a restricted point of view. It is about unwillingness to change or compromise. When a person/people have worked hard on an article, then they don't want to be told that something is lacking, or wrong. I have had a very long argument (which is in the archives of the talk page) in order to get something changed that was about a very well-known (to the English-speaking world) Anglo-Saxon object in the British Museum. So the length of the argument had nothing to do with prejudice or discrimination.

• Suggestion:

1. Start a new discussion
2. Write two brief summaries of the first and second Bulgarian empires. About three lines each, two/three sentences each.
3. Provide references, including page numbers.
4. Put the summaries onto the discussion page.
5. Request that they should be added at two specific sections of the article (in keeping with what is there. You might suggest a change to the present wording in the article.)
6. Leave a request: "Could one of the regular editors please correct this contribution for grammar and style before adding to the article?"

Amandajm (talk) 01:45, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello , I am writing you regarding the page ' Middle Ages ', which I see that you edited. I notice that most of the editors there are too sensitive about " Bulgaria " . I am a historian by education, and I lived in Sofia for a while. I see you found more than 30 sources , and all of the sources are serious and academic . I think that the editors there, are ignorant on the subject of history. Their problem is that they rely on biased sources , mostly British and American ( Davies, Collins, Wickhnam ) . These authors describe only the history of Western Europe and generally lead to stereotypes of the Cold War. Many of them say nothing about Bulgaria, because it is uncomfortable topic. I have taught at universities in Germany and the Netherlands , and I know what is it . The problem for the West is that Bulgaria have a too great history . And this is not a some conspiracy. It seems strange, but this is the truth . I see that the editors there are quite aggressive, otherwise why they make a so big problem of the inclusion of Bulgaria in the " Middle Ages" ? I see that words not working there. My advice is to find historical maps of Bulgaria and Bulgarian cultural influence and to get them to comment that. At the time of Simeon the Great, Bulgaria is the largest country in Europe. Cultural influence of Bulgaria affects over 60% of the area of ​​Europe ( Russia, Belarus , Poland, Ukraine , Serbia ... ) . Let's see how these editors will comment this maps ! After you proposed a maps, asking them "Which other state in Europe in Middle Ages was influence 60 % of Europe's area?". There are countless atlases by the topic. Use the atlases of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences. This is the highest source that nobody of this haters can to challenge.--195.24.37.106 (talk) 18:03, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

I added a three maps in Talk page, but I do not see any comments about them. Only one editor commented the Bulgarian toponyms in present-day's Italy. This, what you say is quite sharp, but it's true. I still can not explain why the editors of this page delete any information related to Bulgaria. Even added a short information about the Boyana Church and the Tarnovo school, for which I use a reliable high-academic sources, they immediately delete all. Without any arguments. They constantly cite three world encyclopedias, but all of the three are British, which is doubtful. I'm not saying that it is a bad thing, but I have a distrust towards British and American historians, because they are often dependent on the political stereotypes. One of the obstacles that they share is the language. Many of the sources are on Bulgarian, which is normal because we are talking about the Bulgarian history. I studied History in Sofia, Berlin and Amsterdam, and I know that if I write about Poland in a pan-European history I must meet theories of Polish historians, because the foreign sources are often biased. Before to write my dissertations about Rzeczpospolita in universities in Berlin and Sofia, I know only some things about the Polish history (Vladislav Varnenchik, Jan Sobiesky, Knyaz Mieszko, and some other things :) ), but now I know that this was the most powerfuul state in Europe in 16 - 17th century, and even fluent Polish language. "Middle ages" is article about European Medieval history and Bulgarian Empire is one of the most powerful and influence medieval states and is normal to added a information by this state. --Sumatro (talk) 16:49, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

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February 2014

Your recent editing history at Middle Ages shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
You were just blocked for edit warring on the same article in December. You may not agree with the objections but you cannot just wave them off. Please see WP:DR for further steps you can take. NeilN ^{talk to me} 05:38, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

In this article has a violation of NPOV (look at Talk page). I just want to add a important information, which is missing now. And I do not understand, why, after I proposed over 40 high-academic reliable sources, which confirm adding of that information, the editors there always delete that. No one of their argument have academic maturity and I think that the reason they to delete this is political. Please, look this article and Talk page carefuly! Some of the sources, used in article, are not reliable.--Sumatro (talk) 06:43, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Middle Ages

Your recent editing history at Middle Ages shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. Hchc2009 (talk) 08:30, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Your Eastern European Bias

I think you have Eastern European (orthodox-slavic) bias on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Middle_Ages talkpage. You forget, that the population of medieval russia or balkan orthodox countries were not significant in a comparison with HR.Empire or medieval France. The social economical development of the orthodox slavic countries are negligable by Western standards. Their cultural technological and scientific development also negligable. They have semi-asian Orthodox (as S. Huntington said) or Eurasian culture.

They were not part of western (catholic and later protestant) civilization.

It is not a secret in history, that countries civilizations are/were not in the same level of development.

It is well-known that Western and Central Europe, ( the so-called Western civilization) was always more developed than Orthodox Slavic or Eastern European civilization.

The cultural the societal-system and the economical civilizational (technological) differences between Orthodox countries and Western Christian (Catholic-Protestant) countries were similar great, as the differences between Northern America (USA Canada) and Southern- (Latino) America.

MEMENTO: Western things which were not existed in orthodox world:

1.Medieval appearance of parliaments (a legislative body(!), DO NOT CONFUSE with the "councils of monarchs" which existed since the beginning of human history),

2. Knights, the knight-culture and the technological effects of crusades from the Holy Land,

3.The self-government status of big royal/imperial cities, (local government systems of cities), which is the direct ancestor of modern self/local governmental systems.

4. The appearance of stone / brick castle defense system and fortified cities. (In Orthodox world only Byzantine empire had such an extensive system in Greek territories)

5. The medieval appearance of banking systems and social effects and status of urban bourgeoisie,

6.The medieval appearance of universities and the medieval appearance of secular intellectuals,

7.Philosophy: Scholasticism and humanist philosophy,

8.The medieval usage of Latin alphabet and medieval spread of movable type printing,

9.The medieval western theater: Mystery or cycle plays and morality passion plays,

10.The architecture, sculpture paintings and fine-arts: Romanesque Gothic and Renaissance styles.

The renaissance & humanism , the reformation and the enlightenment did not influenced/affected the Orthodox (Eastern European) countries.

Before 1870, the industrialization that had developed in Western and Central Europe and the United States did not extend in any significant way to the rest of the world. In Eastern (aka. Orthodox) Europe, industrialization lagged far behind, and started only in the 20th century.--Werbeln (talk) 13:48, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Werbeln, you have Western Eauropean bias, my friend! Look, I'm historian and I'm explore the period of Middle Ages. The most of your points are absolutely wrong and are not needed by comments, but I'm a good man, who believe in the science and education.

1. You say: "The social economical development of the orthodox slavic countries are negligable by Western standards. Their cultural technological and scientific development also negligable. They have semi-asian Orthodox (as S. Huntington said) or Eurasian culture. They were not part of western (catholic and later protestant) civilization.". Wrong. And not only wrong - this is one racist theory, which is created by political reasons. Be careful with sources! In Eastern Europe also exist a books, which says that "Western Europe is too backward and there doesn't exist a culture, because everything western is created in Greece". Don't believe in similar books! The concepts "East" and "West" are created during the time of Cold War. Eastern, Western and Central Europe are one - the civilization of Christian Europe.

2. You say: "the population of medieval russia or balkan orthodox countries were not significant in a comparison with HR.Empire or medieval France.". Wrong. In Ancient times "the father of History" Herodothus said that the Thracians in modern Bulgaria are "the second largest nation, after the Indians (Herodothus, History). In 10th century the Bulgarian capital Veliki Preslav has a population of 150 000 - 200 000, which make it the socond largest city in Europe after Constantinople. In 1376 the turkish conquistador Lala Shahin say "The Bulgarians are the most numerous people to the West" (by diaries of Lala Shahin in National Library of Sofia). The Ottoman conquest of Bulgaria continued 70 years (1352 - 1422), filled with bloody battles and casualities on both sides. Many historians believe that the Bulgarian and Serbian resistance stop the Ottoman invasion of Europe in the 14th century. The archeologist Nikolay Ovcharov say that in 14th century on the territories of Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania has a triple more castles than Central Europe and 5X than Western Europe. The historian Peter Konstantinov say that during the reign of Ivan Alexander Bulgaria has a population of 5 - 6 milion, much more than France for example. Evidence of this is the large number of castles and tax lists from the time of Second Bulgarian Empire. The Ottoman rule is a demographic catastrophe by Balkan states, because they lose many people in wars, slavery and Devshirme.

3. You say: The appearance of stone / brick castle defense system and fortified cities. (In Orthodox world only Byzantine empire had such an extensive system in Greek territories). Wrong. Typical case are the Bulgarian cities, which is centres of komitats in First Bulgarian Empire. Stoyan Popov in his book "The Castle in Europe during the Middle Ages" say that Pliska and Preslav are the only cities built of stone in medieval Europe, without Byzantium. The castles in Western Europe are created in the 11th century, in the High Middle Ages. Pliska is created in 681 and during the reign of Omurtag and Boris I is a very large city. The same argument still maintain the archaeologist Nikolay Ovcharov and many other historians and experts by urban planning. The Great Basilica of Pliska is the largest cathedral in Europe during the Early Middle ages. The area of the central cathedral is 2920 square metres, the all Pliska complex is 27 000 sq. metres. And as always - nothing about it in the article. During the reign of Simeon the Great the Bulgarian capital Preslav was said to rival Constantinople.

4. You say: The renaissance & humanism , the reformation and the enlightenment did not influenced/affected the Orthodox (Eastern European) countries. I'm not agree. Look at "O pismeneh" on Chernorizets Hrabar. It is typical Reformation tractate 600 years before Luther and Ersam.

• In 870 the Bulgarian church became the first independent church in Europe. In 927 became Patriarchy. The British historian Norman Davies say: (Quote - "More importantly, they both created their own Orthodox Churches with their own Patriarchs - Bulgaria - in 1235, Serbia - in 1346... It was a step, which none of the countries of Latin Christendom could take until the Reformation, and which Moscovite Russia did not take until 1589", Europe. A History, p.381). On Preslav Council in 893 the Old Bulgarian language is stated by official liturgical and literary language. The Bible was translate to Bulgarian in 893. The German historian Otto Kronsteier says: "The Old Bulgarian language became a cultural language of all Slavs. It is the first literary language in medieval Europe, long before the emergence of European literary languages ​​- German , French, Italian , English, Russian". The historian Peter Konstantinov say: 6 centuries before the Reformation in Western Europe, Bulgaria has an independent church where the liturgy is reading on Bulgarian language and the God's words are understood by all people in the state. Moreover - in 927 The Bulgarian church rise to the rank of "Patriarchy". Thus, the Bulgarian Patriarch became equal to the Roman Catholic Pope and the Constantinople Patriarch (Konstantinov, History of Bulgaria, Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, Sofia, 1992).
• By Enlightenment you wrong again. The Balkan Enlightenment is happen in the same time like in Western Europe - 18th century - with Vuk Karadjic in Serbia and Paisiy Hilendarski and Sofroniy Vrachanski in Bulgaria. In Bulgarian literature this period is called "Възраждане" (Vazrazhdane), which mean Enligtenment on Bulgarian :)
• The first steps of the Renaissance are making in the Balkans - in Byzantium (Paleologue Renaissance) and Bulgaria (Tarnovo Artistic School). After the falling of Balkan states under Ottoman rule many ideas of Balkan Proto-Renaissance are spreding in Italy, where is developed.

5. You say: "Knights, the knight-culture and the technological effects of crusades from the Holy Land". Myths, Myths, Myths... And Romantic! Wow! In Battle of Adrianople (1205) the Bulgarian army crushed the western knights. That is the result after the meeting "East - West". Latin Empire exist too short time on Balkans (1205 - 1261).

6. You say: "The medieval usage of Latin alphabet". Yes, in 9th century Bulgaria was created own alphabet - The Cyrillic, which later is spreading in Serbia, Russia, Ukraine and others. Actually Bulgaria is the only state, which created own alphalet. The Western states just take the alphabet of Ancient Romans. This is the only one script, created in medieval Europe. The Cyrillic script is major element of Bulgarian cultural influence, which is the reason acad. Dmitriy Likhachov to called Bulgarian Empire "The Third Roman Empire".

7. You say: "The medieval appearance of universities and the medieval appearance of secular intellectuals". Wrong. Preslav school, Tarnovo Literary School and Tarnovo Artistic School. Cyril and Methodius, Chernorizets Hrabar, Konstantin Preslavski, Evtimiy of Tarnovo, Grogory Tsamblak, Cyprian... It no need by comments.

Summary: Please, read before to write!. And be more polite! Thank you in advance!--Sumatro (talk) 23:25, 18 February 2014 (UTC)