Talk:George Carlin: Difference between revisions
Line 307: | Line 307: | ||
== Gary Trudeau? == |
== Gary Trudeau? == |
||
Do we really need to know that Gary Trudeau paid tribute to him in a comic strip and on July 27th? Come on people. Shut down your computers and |
Do we really need to know that Gary Trudeau paid tribute to him in a comic strip and on July 27th? Come on people. Shut down your computers and get outside and start helping fellow working class families and individuals who are suffering under the boot Capitalism! |
Revision as of 22:49, 19 February 2016
George Carlin was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
|
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the George Carlin article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page is not a forum for general discussion about George Carlin. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about George Carlin at the Reference desk. |
Untitled
Definitely should include his children's work. He voiced Thomas the Tank Engine and I'm unsure of this but I think he was on Sesame Street as well. The reason I came to the discussion page was because of the last sentence of the Summary, "He was the recipient of the Mark Twain prize in 2008." Well, he died in 2008, and he died before he received the award, so I think that sentence deserves a well-placed 'posthumously.' Dave 04:55, 17 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davesilvan (talk • contribs) ... I SIGNED THESE THINGS... 4 TILDES, RIGHT? Dave 05:03, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
How bout something about Carlin's appearence on children's television?
He was on Thomas Tank Engine as the Conductor (Ringo Starr also) maybe 1 english 1 american version?
Nothing in article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.123.108.213 (talk) 18:32, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
The second paragraph of "1980s and 1990s" addresses that. By the way, there were multiple seasons of that 25 year old show with Carling following years after Starr had departed. Trackinfo (talk) 20:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
I think philosopher should be added to his titles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.14.45 (talk) 01:15, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
- Source it. CTJF83 11:34, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Thomas template
Another editor added the Thomas template. After seeing where that redirected, it certainly seems like an appropriate addition to the article. As noted above, Carlin was the host, the human star, of that institution for 5 seasons. Yes, its covered in the article, there is no dispute to the fact. I think it would seem logical to include the template as support. Note the other user who had completely missed the mention in the article months ago. At that time, I had to point out to the other user that it was in fact covered. I suggest that serves as evidence that it is not covered sufficiently in the article, certainly for that one IP user, maybe others. One line as the footer to the article does not make undue coverage. Trackinfo (talk) 08:38, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
- The Thomas template is a good example of exactly the kind of information not to include in a biography - except the one about the author of the books (and maybe the producer of the TV series). The template is all about the Thomas series. When one clicks "show" there is nothing about Carlin until one gets down to the bottom and clicks on the "show" button for the TV series. Then, with all three screens of the template open, one has a total of seventeen lines of information, sixteen of which contain no info about Carlin and one that contains the word: "Narrators" and his name (along with the five other narrators). This seems to me to be an absurdly complicated way to get the information that Carlin narrated the series. Moreover: That info is already in the article in two places previously. I say leave the template out. Sunray (talk) 09:09, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Bibliography
In Last Words, Tony Hendra writes, in regard to a genre for the book, "We also tossed the narcissistic Gallicism "memoir", which we decided was a linguistic mongrel of "me" and "moi"". Him and Carlin came up with the genre "sortabiography" for the book. The article refers to the book as a memoir. I don't know if it would be god form to list the book as a sortabiography, but I think the fact that the authors didn't write it as a memoir should be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.161.82 (talk) 13:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
2d Marriage
Sally Wade claims they were married "in spirit" but never legally. 66.3.106.2 (talk) 06:28, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
Locked?
Why isnt this article locked?? Carlin is a significant and influential figure alive today. SoAuthentic 20:15, 2 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SoAuthentic (talk • contribs)
- Wikipedia doesn't regularly lock pages, unless there's an immediate danger of vandalism, or an ongoing edit war. It's the encyclopedia everyone can edit, so policy is to make sure everyone can do that. Dayewalker (talk) 20:30, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
- Well, first, he's not "alive today", as I'm sure you know.
- Second, significance and influence are not, per se, grounds for protecting an article; and there isn't an sufficient amount of vandalism (at least since I've been following it) that would warrant protection. If you think it should be locked, by all means, make your case. DoctorJoeE (talk) 20:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
George Carlin didn't consider himself to be an atheist.
Carlin is listed in the category 'American atheists'. I can see how he's considered to be an atheist in the traditional sense (didn't believe in god), but he very clearly stated that he did not think of himself as an atheist. So, should he really be in that category? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.157.198.45 (talk) 20:41, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Somebody please respond to this person, Carlin spent most of his career mocking God but he claimed that he was neither agnostic or atheast, but acrostic. Scorpion583 (talk) 18:06, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
Even though he was against the traditional God, he was open to other concepts of God which he mentioned during an interveiw with the Onion.
In the September 6, 2000 edition of The Onion A.V. Club titled "Is There A God?", celebrities were asked the question. Carlin was among those asked.
The Onion is complete satire and is not creditable in any way, even their using his name on their site does NOT guarantee that he actually said it. In fact, if you go to his own website, he decries 'all the stuff online attributed to him,' and he says 'if [he] said it, it would be on [his] site.' He *did* say "*IF* I'm going to worship anything it would be the sun, because at least the sun is there, I can see it." Label him 'acrostic' since that's the word he used himself, across between 'agnostic' and 'atheist(ic).' And, being acrostic, due to his high intelligence, he should be listed in BOTH the 'atheist' and 'agnostic' pages. He also talks, jokingly, about worshiping Joe Pesci, since he can see Joe Pesci, and he talks about how Joe Pesci can produce results, but that's just an his accolade to Joe Pesci. Dave 05:00, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
The Onion: Is there a God?
George Carlin: No. No, there's no God, but there might be some sort of an organizing intelligence, and I think to understand it is way beyond our ability. It's certainly not a judgmental entity. It's certainly not paternalistic and all these qualities that have been attributed to God. It's probably a dispassionate... That's why I say, "Suppose He doesn't give a shit? Suppose there is a God but He just doesn't give a shit?" That's the kind of thing that might be at work.
See the feature at http://avclub.theonion.com/avclub3631/avfeature_3631.html.
- You seriously think the onion is accurate and not a satire publication? CTJF83 01:42, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
If the man himself claimed that he wasn't an atheist then we should not consider him to be one either, he wasn't an atheist, he was an acrostic. Scorpion583 (talk) 16:55, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, find a reliable source where he says he isn't an atheist. CTJF83 17:02, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
"When it comes to God's existence, I'm not an atheist and I'm not an agnostic. I' m an acrostic. The whole thing puzzles me." -George Carlin Scorpion583 (talk) 17:15, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- Link it! You saying he said it is hardly reliable...and again, the Onion is not reliable. CTJF83 17:18, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
It comes from the Atheism Theism Debate, you can't prove that this information is false simply because it isn't. Scorpion583 (talk) 17:31, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- Again, you saying something hardly makes it true. Source it, or leave it alone. CTJF83 17:34, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- Regarding reliable sources, the quotation doesn't come from The Onion but rather The Onion A.V. Club. As the Wikipedia page says, "Unlike its parent publication, The A.V. Club is not satirical". They do serious (non-satirical) interviews, and they did several with George Carlin. One of his interviews was even published in print in the 2002 compilation book "The Tenacity of the Cockroach: Conversations with Entertainment's Most Enduring Outsiders" (which I own). Regardless, the quotation still doesn't automatically exempt him from being an atheist; see my paragraph below. WillieBlues (talk) 20:16, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
- Getting back to the original question here, personally rejecting a word as a label doesn't automatically exempt that person from fitting the term. For example, the band Audioslave tried to reject the descriptive term "supergroup" even though they fit the definition, and no cult ever calls itself a "cult". Carlin made the very clear assertion on several occasions that God doesn't exist. He may have mentioned not ruling out the possible existence of other supernatural concepts (e.g., "The Big Electron"), but nothing that was a deity. His position fits all of Wikipedia's own opening paragraph definitions of atheism. WillieBlues (talk) 20:16, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
It wasn't me who said this, don't be foolish! The words came from the mouth of George Carlin himself, you're just being stubborn. Scorpion583 (talk) 17:39, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
From the long quote above, he seems to fit the category of Agnostics (when he exclaims that there might be an intelligence, but we can never understand g), or borderline Atheist. In any case worshiping the Sun means Sun worshiper, and the guy he prays to means Humanist.153.18.28.30 (talk) 20:59, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- He became progressively less and less religious until he was an atheist by the time of his final three shows. A source is needed obv but anyone who saw his last three shows knows he is an atheist. He made it abundantly clear. AaronY (talk) 15:46, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
There might be some perceived baggage associated with certain uses of the term to which Carlin objected, but the loose sense which is conveyed by putting someone in the atheist category here definitely applies to him, as is made abundantly evident in his Religion is Bullshit performance. --Born2cycle (talk) 19:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Carlin was an atheist. Sorry it doesn't agree with you if you think he was religious in any sort. One of his skits begins with "I was raised Catholic, until i reached... the age of reason." Listen to his 'sanctity of life' skit. Just an excerpt: "'Sanctity of life,' makes you feel special, doesn't it? To think that somehow, life is sacred? But look at what we kill: Flies and mosquitoes? Because they're pests! Chickens and pigs. Because we're hungry. Lions and tigers? Because it's fun! And people! We kill people! Why? Because... they're pests! And... it's fun!"
He was also cremated, was he not? That's another reason I came here, to verify that he was cremated. Dave 05:11, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Carlin did not consider himself an atheist. Someone above demands a credible source? Here it is, with George himself stating live not only that he wasn't an atheist, but WHY he wasn't an atheist (&, importantly it must be added, these aren't the words from during one of his sketches - a milieu where all artists will lie for a laugh - but in a serious tete-a-tete w/Larry King): Starting 2:35 into this vid - Bill Maher remembers George Carlin (Part 1) - King gives a quick preamble which leads to George's owns words.203.79.96.4 (talk) 04:14, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
I guess you didn't watch the whole clip as at 8:26 in the video he says " I don't buy the whole humanity thing, don't buy the species, I don't believe in my species, don't believe in my country, I don't believe in religion, I don't believe in government, or big business, I think it is a game, I think it is a racquet, a game and a con, and I enjoy not caring about things, it gives me a deatachment, a separation..." Mylittlezach (talk) 22:41, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Carlin has said that he believes in a universal consciousness. He also claims that he doesn't believe in a big man in the sky, but he does believe in a god. When he says he doesn't believe in a God, he means he doesn't believe in what humans have manifested him as. Check the video about 5 minutes in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_bYnvR_fRg&feature=relmfuComatmebro ~Come at me~ 22:51, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
What has " I don't buy the whole humanity thing, [...] it gives me a detachment, a separation..." got to do with somehow repudiating his clear statement that he didn't consider himself an atheist? If the words "I don't believe in religion" are the ones that are meant to underline the whole point of your *AHA, GOTCHA* post (I guess you didn't blah blah), then the simple observation is someone doesn't have to buy into any specifc religion in order to believe in the infinite. If, on the other hand, the whole tenor of his statement is your point (he doesn't believe in this, OR this, OR this, OR this...), then that simply reads as someone with a healthy misanthropic take on numerous human activities, something which in itself indicates nothing about said person's take on/belief in any potential afterlife (& the principle which might govern/underpin it).203.79.96.4 (talk) 07:31, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
- Right! We cannot assert Carlin was an atheist from him saying or writing that he was not religious. Irreligion is very different from atheism. Binksternet (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Graffiti with a quotation of Carlin in Germany
I admit that I have never heard of Carlin before I saw this graffiti at a German railroad station near Munich. Obviously the quotation is correct - it can be found in Wikiquote. All images with part of the quote can be found here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Carlin_Graffiti - perhaps this can be used in the article. Plehn (talk) 18:58, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
- How? What do you suggest? CTJF83 19:14, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Agnostic not Atheist
During an interview with Kevin Smith, Kelly Carlin stated that people said he was so grounded, and that he was an atheist, but that she was clearing it that he was an agnostic not an atheist.
Could the page be corrected?
Link to the podcast, at about 1:50:00 to 1:55:00, somewhere in there. http://smodcast.com/episodes/wednesday-august-31-2011/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.50.80.147 (talk) 06:21, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Big nothing
Collapsing section initiated by sock of blocked editor |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Just to clarify things IP, this talk page is for a discussion of the article, not of the subject. I think we all started on the right foot but have gotten a bit off-topic here, this isn't the place for a debate on his style. As for your suggestions, if you want something added to the article please look it up yourself. I'm not going to bother, as Carlin is almost universally thought of as one of the three best and most influential comedians of all time. Feel free to disagree and find reliable sources saying so, but I'm just saying that I wouldn't count on anyone else doing the work for you. Dayewalker (talk) 14:43, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
|
Introduction should be generic not specific?
The following may be far too specific:
Carlin was noted for his black humor as well as his thoughts on politics, the English language, psychology, religion, and various taboo subjects. Carlin and his "Seven Dirty Words" comedy routine were central to the 1978 U.S. Supreme Court case F.C.C. v. Pacifica Foundation, in which a narrow 5–4 decision by the justices affirmed the government's power to regulate indecent material on the public airwaves.
Consider:
Carlin was noted for his black humor as well as his thoughts on politics, the English language, psychology, religion, and various taboo subjects. Carlin and his "Seven Dirty Words" comedy routine were central to a U.S. Supreme Court case which affirmed the government's power to regulate indecent material on the public airwaves.
Candy (talk) 13:02, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
- . . . to effectively bury the specifics of the case and the links to find out the specifics? Why is this important to hide? Trackinfo (talk) 16:52, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
Cars section
That entire section about Cars Fillmore seems a little unencyclopedia-ish. Should it be removed? The evacipated (talk) 03:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Whatever the official verification rules are around here...
The caption on the photo that's up there now needs to be fixed. Anybody who has the slightest familiarity with the man knows that is from nowhere near 1972. My guess is early 80s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.132.254.140 (talk) 01:30, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
- I tend to agree. I have added a cite tag (not sure if that's proper in an infobox). I also found this at Commons, George Carlin 1969, if this is in fact Carlin then the '72 claim is even harder to swallow.
Mlpearc (powwow) 01:55, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
- I'm going to be bold and put back the less controversial photo. Carlin went through a lot of various looks over a long and very public life. Unless someone has an alternative, I don't think there is any one look or any one moment he is known best for. In other words, there is no pressure to make THIS our primary picture. When the proponents of the autographed photo come to a consensus as to what it is, then we can consider putting it at the forefront of the article. Trackinfo (talk) 04:50, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
- FWIW, I changed the approximated date on the earlier image to circa 1980. I also came across this one from 1975 and another from 1981. In any case, feel free to change the date if you get a more precise estimate. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 06:50, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Influenced -- Bill Cosby
The article lists Bill Cosby as a comedian influenced by Carlin, but the supporting source ("Funny, that was my joke") footnoted in the references does not say that. As far as I can tell, Carlin isn't even mentioned in the LA Times piece. As Cosby and Carlin were contemporaries, it doesn't seem one can claim either was influenced by the other, more than successful artists working in any art form tend to influence one another. Moreover, Cosby is famous for being a "clean" comedian and almost entirely eschewing bad language, whereas Carlin is infamous for making such language the focus of several routines. Other than the chronological concurrency of their careers, therefore, I don't think they had a lot in common. 98.65.193.34 (talk) 04:12, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
- Good points. I'll remove the connection. Binksternet (talk) 13:47, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Carlin's values changed to ??
George Carlin said that psychedelics and marijuana are "values changers" and maintained that his own values changed as a result of using these. However, I'm not sure what they changed to. True, he did say that after he used the hallucinogens he accepted himself as a rebel, and as someone who had never had any hope of conforming to society's norms.
Other than that, have any of his biographers attempted to delineate what Carlin's values changed to? Or was he only a critic and nihilist?
The Wikipedia article as it's now written mentions his satirical barbs towards both conservatism and liberalism. Fair enough, but did he express any views that divulged his essential values or personal ethics? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.2.59.54 (talk) 20:55, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not totally sure what you mean. If you're talking about what he said in his interview with Jon Stewart, I think he meant that drugs opened up different ways of seeing the world, and your values kind of change along with that.
I completely disagree with the claim that he's a nihilist. He didn't agree with the religious approach to the meaning of life, I think he just accepted that he didn't know.
I'm confused, are you suggesting a change to the article?Comatmebro ~Come at me~ 21:28, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Courts Martial
"During his time in the Air Force he was court martialed three times, and also received many disciplinary punishments." I also peeked at the citation source and Carlin's own Web site. I expect that Carlin or his biographers did not consider those early events Earth shattering so the Air Force events likely did not receive in-depth attention. Based upon my own military experience and frequent visits to non-judicial punishment (a step down from the far more serious courts martial) I suspect that Carlin did not experience even one let alone three courts martial; based upon his discharge level. There is some disagreement among various sources whether the proper term is "court" or "courts" martial. Not a biggie though when I was harassing the military higher-ups in the 1970s the proper term at that time was "courts martial." It may be nigh-on impossible to ascertain what form of legal troubles Carlin experienced within the military but I felt compelled to mention that the negatives usually associated with a courts martial may not be applicable to George Carlin since he may not have actually undergone that ordeal. I suspect that rather than explain the intricacies of military law and rituals the biographers and even Mr. Carlin himself may have simplified things by just using the "court martial" term.Obbop (talk) 21:25, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
- The George Carlin website says "1954-1956 - Receives three court-martial and numerous Article Fifteens (form of punishment just below court-martial). Attitude toward military service can be discerned by noting history of changes in rank: A/B, A/3c, A/2c, A/3c, A/2c, A/3c, A/B, A/3c."
- Carlin's book Last Words on page 197 says "But it was too late. I'd said 'Fuck you.' I had defied authority. And I got an Article 15, a punishment just short of a court-martial." On the next page he talks about being hauled in front of authorities for deserting his post during a simulated combat exercise, which resulted in a "court martial" with only one guy in the room... not a panel of field officers.
- You might be right about Carlin not ever experiencing the real thing, the big and painful court-martial process. It seems like he only got the junior version. However, we do not have any published sources to say differently. We go by published sources, not common sense personal analysis. I have not found any book or magazine or newspaper article saying that Carlin exaggerated his brushes with USAF authority. Binksternet (talk) 03:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
- Amen -- and regarding any "disagreement" about the plural of "court martial" -- if there is any I'd like to see it -- because every reference I've ever consulted agrees that the plural is "courts martial." DoctorJoeE talk to me! 17:10, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
- Plural should always be "courts martial", no other choice. Binksternet (talk) 17:46, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
IRS
May want to mention how his drug habits led him to ignore his IRS taxes, which he had to work to pay off for nearly 20 years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.207.162.156 (talk) 20:11, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
- I've located the article reporting that (with a good quote), and will add it. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 20:41, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
Let's get this article to "Featured"!
What do we need to do to get this article to "Good" and finally to "Featured"? I am willing to help in anything necessary! Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 23:24, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Possible redirect
There is currently an AfD being held on George's brother. Deletion if not redirecting to this page has been suggested due to lack of reliable third-party sources. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 06:20, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on George Carlin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130910135116/http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=EhPZdhW,SwMerM5tkcE9WhmSc0w_2967720197_1:134:839&bq=author%3Dgeorge%2520carlin%26title%3Dwatch%2520my%2520language to http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=EhPZdhW,SwMerM5tkcE9WhmSc0w_2967720197_1:134:839&bq=author%3Dgeorge%2520carlin%26title%3Dwatch%2520my%2520language
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
- If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
- If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 03:35, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Gary Trudeau?
Do we really need to know that Gary Trudeau paid tribute to him in a comic strip and on July 27th? Come on people. Shut down your computers and get outside and start helping fellow working class families and individuals who are suffering under the boot Capitalism!
- Former good article nominees
- B-Class biography articles
- B-Class biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
- Mid-importance biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
- Actors and filmmakers work group articles
- WikiProject Biography articles
- B-Class United States articles
- Low-importance United States articles
- B-Class United States articles of Low-importance
- WikiProject United States articles
- B-Class Comedy articles
- Top-importance Comedy articles
- WikiProject Comedy articles
- B-Class Atheism articles
- Mid-importance Atheism articles
- B-Class Religion articles
- Low-importance Religion articles
- WikiProject Religion articles