Talk:Israelites

Lead

Why is the lead 5-paragraphs long, while the main text only has four sections? Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section: "The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies."

It is not supposed to be overly long and disconnected from the main body of the article.

And part of the lead currently goes at length about the definition of the term "Jews" (with 11 references!), which is related but far from synonymous to the term "Israelites". Dimadick (talk) 08:42, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Obviously all that junk sourcing is inappropriate, since no one is contesting that the Jews were defined by heirs of the Israelites who lived in the southern kingdom of Judah. It should go out because whoever plunked it there has had evidently an enxiety fit, and had to reassure himself by overegging the pud. One could justify such oversourcing only if the claim is endlessly controverted (and several of the sources do not state what they are claimed to state. None of them to my knowledge make the distinction northern and southern Israelitic kingdoms, associating Jews with the latter, a source for which is available but which was removed, and replaced by junk by non-historians like Ostrer.Nishidani (talk) 10:51, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

ediconflict

Would you care to either remove irrelevant information, or move some things to the article proper?

And to answer your question. One of the reasons the lead is so ling is because some editors prefer to add their information to the lead, where their contributions will be seen, instead of first improving the article and then add a summary to the lead, as they should per WP:LEAD. Debresser (talk) 10:53, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

The lead is very simple to write. It should consist of

(1)*a Definition of Israelites

(2)*The biblical and the archaeological account of their earliest presence in Palestine. Meaning the narrative of wanderings, the promised land, conquest vs. the archaeological-historical argument they arose from the Canaanites themselves

(3)*The biblical account of their establishing a united monarchy under David and Solomon, and its dissolution, and the archaeological statement re same.

• The descendants of the Israelites, into a northern branch, the Samaritans, and a Judean branch, the Jews

(4)*The biblical-rabbinical tradition of the split, based on deportation and the Cushites, according to Josephus et al. and the Samaritan tradition of the split, affirming they are heirs of the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh and that the southern Israelites follow Eli.

That is 4 short paragraphs, with the essential outlines of Israelites, before their traditions came into conflict, and crystalized into 2 different populations.Nishidani (talk) 12:10, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Twelve Tribes of Israel

As an FYI, the page Twelve Tribes of Israel, and a number of other related redirects, used to redirect here. It is now a separate article.--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:59, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Those are individuals. This article is about the group called Israelites. Debresser (talk) 16:11, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Israelites in Quran and Islam

The children of Israel are mentioned extensively in the Quran. I'm not an expert on the subject, but that should definitely be in the article. The story of Moses, David, Joseph, Jacob, Isaac, and many more are mentioned. It's also in List of characters and names mentioned in the Quran#Mentioned 4. Someone with good sources should expand the article and this information. —Hexafluoride ^{Ping me if you need help, or post on my talk} 19:20, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

The Quran was written some 2,000 years after the Israelites were established in Canaan. It is irrelevant to this article in the way that the Bible itself is not. If the Quran is to be utilized because it mentions Israelites, why not also mention the Oahspe or the Urantia Book? Hmm? 72.92.86.26 (talk) 19:42, 2 April 2017 (UTC)