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:::::{{tq|"It's the same as Welshman calling themselves a country (in Texas' case a Republic which was infinitely more autonomous) or people within the UK calling each other separate countries."}} No it's not the same. It's very different, both in history and in law. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 10:23, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::{{tq|"It's the same as Welshman calling themselves a country (in Texas' case a Republic which was infinitely more autonomous) or people within the UK calling each other separate countries."}} No it's not the same. It's very different, both in history and in law. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 10:23, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
::::::Martinevans, really? How so? Can Wales raise it's own military force? Can Wales have a standing army? Does Wales have international relations with any other actual country other than the UK? I think you're missing the point here. If Wales or the UK pass a law saying that they're a country, that doesn't necessarily make them a country at least in the way the rest of the world uses the word... <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:FratGrad|FratGrad]] ([[User talk:FratGrad#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/FratGrad|contribs]]) 10:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::::::Martinevans, really? How so? Can Wales raise it's own military force? Can Wales have a standing army? Does Wales have international relations with any other actual country other than the UK? I think you're missing the point here. If Wales or the UK pass a law saying that they're a country, that doesn't necessarily make them a country at least in the way the rest of the world uses the word... <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:FratGrad|FratGrad]] ([[User talk:FratGrad#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/FratGrad|contribs]]) 10:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Even more to my point, it appears we have a very nationalist Welshman, in Griffith, here using expletives. Note that Welshman like him will probably fight to the death on this page to keep Wales a country due to the predisposition to feel separate and special as a people that this terminology promotes but also paying homage to a romantic and very glorious past. But alas, I think he even realizes that it's not the same definition that the rest of the world uses. [[User:FratGrad|FratGrad]] ([[User talk:FratGrad|talk]]) 10:35, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Revision as of 10:36, 14 February 2018

Good articleWales has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 2, 2010Good article nomineeNot listed
December 1, 2010Good article nomineeListed
November 22, 2011Good article reassessmentKept
Current status: Good article
The issue of whether Wales is a country or not has been repeatedly raised.
The result of all these debates is that Wales is indeed a country. This has been confirmed in formal mediation.

The discussion is summarised in this archive here. Further information on the countries within the UK can be found at Countries of the United Kingdom, and a table of reliable sources can be found at Talk:Countries of the United Kingdom/refs.

Template:Outline of knowledge coverage Template:Vital article

Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2015

Average rain fall.........53 inches

Average summer temperature..........48-63

Average winter temperature...........35-45

Capital city.................Cardiff

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2017

nobody really knows us — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaUser,User (talk • contribs) 20:42, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No-one is going to edit this request as you have not explained what change you'd want to make. Iggy (talk) 21:07, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Plaid Cymru Seats

Following the 2017 General Election, I am sure that Plaid Cymru hold 4 Welsh seats in Westminster, not 3, having won Ceredigion from the Liberal Democrats, which leaves the Liberal Democrats with 0. Could somebody with editing privileges please alter this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Draig ap Dafydd (talk • contribs) 13:43, 19 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done, with a source. Verbcatcher (talk) 20:27, 19 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Wales is not a country...

I know a lot of British and Welsh people refer to Wales as a country but it is not. Wikipedia's own page on "country" starts by saying "distinct national entity." Then there's a bunch of what some Welshman probably put on the "country" page about how a country can be occupied by a another sovereign state but that's simply not true. Does anyone refer to Scotland as a "country?" Does anyone refer to "Northern Ireland" as a country? Both have more autonomy than Wales. So if you're going to call Wales a "country," then you need to change the "Scotland" and "Northern Ireland" pages to list them as countries. Why don't we go by the UN's definition of "country" and say that it requires UN representation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 05:34, 14 February 2018 (UTC) FratGrad (talk) 05:57, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We have been here so many times before. Please read through all the archives; this argument surfaces in probably every one of them. If you have a new justication supported by authoratative sources that has not already been discussed, then please post it here. However arguments along the lines presented above are most unlikely to get any traction here.  Velella  Velella Talk   05:51, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK so I read through the comments on the previous article. How many of those "75 reputable and independent sources" are sources from within the UK? I bet the vast majority of them are sources from within the UK and the only reason people from different regions refer to themselves as "countries" is because of FIFA. So any source from within the UK is going to be biassed that way. Nobody outside of the UK, maybe (and that's a big maybe) some "sources" in commonwealths refer to them as countries or in reference to FIFA but that's going to be it. Otherwise, in the legal, diplomatic, definition of country, they are not countries. Texas even has more autonomy than Wales. Texas, unlike Wales, can operate and manage its own military force. So are the moderators going to change the Texas page to "country?" Let's be honest, every aspect of the word "constituent countries" as the moderator defined them and now the wiki definition for "country" would apply to Texas; and any other US state for that matter. FratGrad (talk) 06:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, I tried following the "links" on a lot of those "sources" and several appear to be dead links. The ones that appear to be still active are all British domains (containing ".co.uk"). And the Welsh one? Seriously? Of course they're going to call themselves countries. The whole reason they never send a soccer team to the Olympics is because they would have to go as the UK and they could potentially lose their statuses as "countries" in FIFA. They made an exception for the London Olympics because they had assurances from FIFA that they wouldn't lose their status as "countries." If you don't believe me I can try and go find an article on that but I would think it's recent enough most here would remember. FratGrad (talk) 06:42, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You are arguing a case not referencing sources, which include EU and British Government designation. A brand new editor, jumping straight into a old controversy reusing old arguments.... -----Snowded TALK 07:54, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I just told you I can cite sources if you want. Which source said that Wales was recognized as an independent country in the EU? Are you saying that if the UK parliament votes "leave" for a "hard brexit" that Wales would automatically remain in the EU since Wales, as a "country," would not have invoked Article 50? Here's a credible source for you. And it says "Glenn has said: "The big fear in the past was that if we did it [enter into the Olympics] we would jeopardise our independent country status. But that was sorted out under [former FIFA president Sepp] Blatter actually and [new president] Gianni Infantino has reinforced it." (http://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/17560425/gb-football-team-gets-fifa-go-ahead-2020-olympics) This supports everything I've been saying but nice try. You do realize there are documents that say Texas is a Republic? Namely the Republic of Texas Constitution passed in 1836? Who outside of the UK recognizes Wales as a country? The UK government did not recognize Rhodesia as a country yet they were recognized by South Africa and still most people regarded Rhodesia as a country; so the UK saying something is or isn't a country is not a necessary and sufficient condition. FratGrad (talk) 08:49, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Back to your opening line, FratGrad, in what way is Wales not "a distinct national entity"? Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:43, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm really not sure how Texas calling itself a Republic is relevant here. Nor Rhodesia. Nor South Africa. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:49, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oh! For the ***** **** of *****! Not this yet again, surely? ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 09:53, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Roger, distinct from the UK. Wales is no more distinct from the UK than Texas is from the United States as an entity. Therefore, you'd have to say Texas is a country also. And we know that isn't true. Martinevans, It's the same as Welshman calling themselves a country (in Texas' case a Republic which was infinitely more autonomous) or people within the UK calling each other separate countries. Rhodesia is definitely relevant here because it shows that just because the UK classifies something as a country or not is not necessary or sufficient for whether that something is universally recognized as a "country." The British use the term "country" parochially because of their sports clubs, notably FIFA and rugby, have domestic regional teams but also play internationally so they refer to each of them as countries; their sports are rooted in and have fomented a lot of nationalist tendencies hence the intensity with which Welshman, Scotsman, and Northern Ireland residents are so competitive and often refer to themselves as if they were independent of the UK. But regardless, the rest of the world does not use that definition of "country." It usually refers to fully autonomous states. And if you want to get really technical, they have to be recognized by the UN. Hence why Taiwan is disputed as a country but even Taiwan is at least sovereign. FratGrad (talk) 10:10, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"It's the same as Welshman calling themselves a country (in Texas' case a Republic which was infinitely more autonomous) or people within the UK calling each other separate countries." No it's not the same. It's very different, both in history and in law. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:23, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Martinevans, really? How so? Can Wales raise it's own military force? Can Wales have a standing army? Does Wales have international relations with any other actual country other than the UK? I think you're missing the point here. If Wales or the UK pass a law saying that they're a country, that doesn't necessarily make them a country at least in the way the rest of the world uses the word... — Preceding unsigned comment added by FratGrad (talk • contribs) 10:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Even more to my point, it appears we have a very nationalist Welshman, in Griffith, here using expletives. Note that Welshman like him will probably fight to the death on this page to keep Wales a country due to the predisposition to feel separate and special as a people that this terminology promotes but also paying homage to a romantic and very glorious past. But alas, I think he even realizes that it's not the same definition that the rest of the world uses. FratGrad (talk) 10:35, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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