Talk:Kiwifruit

Chinese Gooseberries

"To avoid associating the fruit with China after WWII, it was internationaly marketed under the name "Melonette" first, and finally under the name "kiwifruit".[10]"

I followed the citation link and it made no mention of disassociation with China. Rather, it implied that American importers wanted to avoid using the word "berry" which might result in higher tariffs. Does anyone have another citation for that claim? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.10.70 (talk) 05:34, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Further reading

Books

• Neubauer, H. / Vorbeck, W. (2008). Kiwifruit: from the seed to your plate. NZVP Books. ISBN 978-1-877339-11-0
• Qian, M.C. / Rimando, A.M. (eds. 2010). Flavor and Health Benefits of Small Fruits. American Chemical Society. ISBN 978-0-8412-2549-7

--Zefr (talk) 18:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Golden kiwifruit

Well it cannot be both " a new species " and a "distinct cultivar ". If this variety was just invented recently, then a "cultivar" it should be, not a "species".Eregli bob (talk) 07:44, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

In the botanical world species and cultivars are two different things. It can be a new species and cultivar at the same time. Cultivar in botany simply means a plant variety that has been produced in cultivation by selective breeding as opposed to in the wild. No wild plant is ever designated a cultivar for obvious reasons. It's species... I take it you don't need me to tell you what a species is. Whether it is factualy correct that it is a new species and cultivar is something I don't know. 212.250.138.33 (talk) 04:21, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Just did a quick check for you and as far as I can tell, it's been designated as a new species, the rule I've been told is if presented in latin as two names such "Actinidia chinensis" (Golden Kiwi) then it's genus followed by species, if the second name is in single quotation marks then that is the cultivar, it seems that it is considered a new speices, it's cultivars name is apprently "Hort 16a" so in a 3 name format it would appear as Actinidia chinensis 'Hort 16a' (Genus, Species, Cultivar). 212.250.138.33 (talk) 04:36, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm looking into Hort 16A, which is the major commercial variety of A. chinensis currently. This article describes it as a hybrid of deliciosa and chinesis. But this is not supported by the reference given (which only mentions chinensis) The patent ([1]) says the parents were both A. chinensis, but as they were collected in 1978 and 1981, one or both may have been deliciosas. I've heard (and can't find a reference now) that the commercially produced golden kiwi is chinensis grafted onto deliciosa rootstock. Perhaps grafting was confused with hybridization. Actinidia chinensis says chinensis was formerly cultivated in NZ but was displaced by deliciosa. This may be the case, or may be due to confusion from the change in name.Plantdrew (talk) 18:13, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Definition of Kiwifruit

I see many articles referring to kiwifruit Hayward only, as Actinidia deliciosa only, and others referring to all varieties of Actinidia fruit as kiwifruit. In fact most of the time I see the term kiwifruit being used with multiple definitions in the same article. Then I go to the dictionary, and it gets worse. Some say all Actinidia fruit, some say only deliciosa, some say only chinensis and some say chinensis or deliciosa. Obviously these dictionaries have not been updated since deliciosa and chinensis became separate species. Current usage suggests that all varieties grown outside Asia are kiwifruit, and the rest are not. This seems to be a eurocentric view. 12.168.6.143 (talk) 20:11, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

You've been doing some fantastic work with this article. I agree that dictionaries are likely to be outdated. I think the proper approach, as you've been doing is to have a section in this article on the 3 species grown on a commercial scale (deliciosa, chinensis and arguta), and to mention the other cultivated species in passing (kolomikta, polygama). As kiwifruit is a fairly recent neologism (and a failed attempt at a trademark), usage is still evolving. "Golden kiwifruit" and "Baby kiwi" got their common names from their shared membership with the "Fuzzy kiwifruit" in the genus Actinidia. "Kiwi" had no association with any Actinidia until the trademark attempt. Kiwifruit seems to currently be used as a common name for all the fruits produced by plants in Actinidia, although when it was first coined, only one species (but see below) was grown on a commercial scale.

Thanks for the compliment. The cultivar section of the old article seemed like a pitch for the above mentioned gold kiwi stressing how average the other varieties are. I included melanandra because people kept referencing the red ringed verity of chinensis as a red kiwi. I am sorry to say that I have exhausted my knowledge on the subject. The one last change i would like to make would be to replace the initial image with a image displaying a large variety of kiwifruit, but know of no pictures that display this without license. Please make any changes you feel necessary.(12.168.6.143 (talk) 18:20, 11 October 2012 (UTC))

Use of taxonomy in the article

There is a potential issue with the taxonomic identities of Actinidia chinensis and A. deliciosa. "A. chinensis and A. deliciosa were classified together until about 15 years ago, in one species" is potentially misleading. I read it as (in the context of the article's focus on deliciosa) "a new species, A. chinensis was recently recognized as distinct from the long recognized species A. deliciosa". This is incorrect, although A. chinensis has recently become more widely cultivated. The reverse is true. Actinidia chinensis was first described in 1847 [2]. Fuzzy kiwi wasn't even named as a distinct variety (Actinidia chinensis var. deliciosa) until the 1940s [3], and finally recognized as a species, Actinidia deliciosa in 1984 [4]. Botanists still tend to recognize fuzzy kiwi as a variety (A. chinensis var. deliciosa) rather than a separate species (A. deliciosa), but agricultural literature has tended to increasingly recognize it as a separate species. The taxonomic issue is, of course, more appropriately discussed at Actinidia deliciosa and Actinidia chinensis. Plantdrew (talk) 18:13, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Point taken. The history of the separation of the species chinensis and deliciosa have been removed from this article. Care must be taken to ensure that the audience of this article is kept in mind (someone exploring the fruit and the production of the fruit, not the plant it self).(12.168.6.143 (talk) 19:31, 11 October 2012 (UTC))

Warning on Use of A. chinensis

The taxonomy does affect have a major bearing on the references used in this article. Until 1984, fuzzy kiwi was known as A. chinensis var. deliciosa or just A. chinensis. It took some years for A. deliciosa to take hold. References from the 1960s (when intensive cultivation of deliciosa cultivars took off) until 1984 (or later) are likely to use A. chinensis to refer to what is now A. deliciosa. Use extreme caution when a reference talks about chinensis. Even today, chinensis is still widely used when deliciosa is intended. Google results for: "Actinidia deliciosa Hayward" (22k), "Actinidia chinensis Hayward" (39k), "Actinidia chinensis var. deliciosa"+Hayward (4k), "Actinidia Hayward" (5k). The Hayward cultivar is certainly a deliciosa species/variety, but there are a large number of results for "Actinidia chinensis Hayward" because the botanical variety is often left off when a cultivar name is given (and the even the species may be left off as in "Actinidia Hayward"). Plantdrew (talk) 18:13, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Yang Tao

In the history section of the article, it mentions that the Chinese name of this fruit is Yang Tao. But Yang Tao is the name of a different fruit, see http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/楊桃 I suspect that the source it quoted from was in error. I would suggest people who worked with this fruit in China so clarify this confusion. Kowloonese (talk) 05:16, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

From the 楊桃 (Yang Tao) page on Wikipedia there is a disambiguation link that states:

本文介紹的是Star fruit。關於獼猴桃的別名，詳見「奇異果

Translation "This article describes the Star fruit. About the kiwi an alias, see "kiwi""

Therefore, to this day the word is used to describe both fruits. PLEASE STOP CHANGING THIS IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW CHINESE AUSTRALIANS REFERRED TO THIS FRUIT12.168.6.143 (talk) 19:00, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

When does "楊桃" mean "Strawberry peach" literally? "楊" means willow or aspen or Chinese bayberry as in "楊梅". But I don't believe it can ever mean "strawberry". I understand we have a reliable resource here, but I'd like to know whether other Wikipedians agree to this explanation. If most of us consider it wrong, should we remove this "literal" translation? --Ahyangyi (talk) 05:40, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

You are right, with my limited research it seems to mean a peach like fruit that grows on a plant with fluttering branches.144.188.128.3 (talk) 18:02, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

According to Google Translate, mei hau tou means monkey (macaque) peach. --31.150.209.230 (talk) 21:45, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

All hail google translate :) Seriously if you want to refute somthing you need to do a bit more reserch. 楊 is assocated with trees with fluttering branches, but that is just one interpritation and it is kinda subjuctive for me as i am not a native speaker. 2602:304:415C:5EE9:2C40:7E88:E22D:B772 (talk) 23:29, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

In Chinese, 杨桃 is the starfruit while 羊桃 is the kiwi fruit. Both are pronounced as yang tao. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gcjdavid (talk • contribs) 07:09, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

I think this is a regional variation. As a native Mandarin speaker, in mainland China, 杨桃 refers to the starfruit and it has other varied orthography i.e. 阳桃 in the Flora Reipublicae Popularis Sinicae. But if you look this up on Google, as in 羊桃, the Taiwanese websites refer it to the kiwifruit. According to the Flora Reipublicae Popularis Sinicae, Yang Tao (written as 阳桃, with the scientific name Averrhoa carambola L.）is the starfruit. While according to the 16th century Chinese medicine encyclopedia, the Compendium of Materia Medica, mi hou tao/mei hau tou (written as 猕猴桃 in the book）is the kiwifruit, whose scientific name is Actinide chinensis. If you look up 猕猴桃 (the kiwifruit)in Baidu Baike, it shows that it has other names alias such as 阳桃、羊桃、奇异果. The first two alias are contradicted with other sources online. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.69.161.10 (talk) 11:09, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Evolutionary biology

There seems to be a total absence of genetics and evolutionary biology on the wikipedia articles for fruits. Which fruits are genetically related? What genes are evolutionarily (is that a word?) preserved among related plants? I came to this article to try to familiarize myself with the topic but have found that none of the fruit articles have good sections on genetics. I think it would greatly improve this article (and all fruit articles) to include a section on genetics/molecular biology. I realize that the history of cultivation and the known cross-breeding is often discussed, but this does not address the information that I am alluding to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.82.215.201 (talk) 18:34, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

That is a good idea, but it seems that should be in the article about the plant, insted of the articla about the fruit of the plant 12.168.6.143 (talk) 23:28, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Clean up Citations

Although otherwise this is an Ok article, the lack of citations to cover the citation needed comments are probably lending to less credibility. Also, there are a tun of citations, most likely all is needed to look through the existing citations to find a good source.

Please help cover these gaps208.90.40.114 (talk) 22:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Animal consumption

I have removed the section entitled Animal consumption which was added on 7 January this year by User:Preppergardens. Apart from being dubious information, the ref given was to a spam plant catalogue. User:Preppergardens was spam blocked indefinitely by User:De728631 on 11 March. Moriori (talk) 00:57, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Dead link

http://food.oregonstate.edu/faq/kiwi/faq_kiwi4.html "What is the history of the kiwifruit?". Oregon State University

This link no longer works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.157.3 (talk) 02:52, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Allergies

'silver birch allergy' redirects to this page but then there is no mention of it in the text as fas as I can tell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.210.58 (talk) 11:14, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Development

There is no real mention of the post-war development of the kiwifruit. There is a reason it is not called the Chinese gooseberry - the fruit as grown today, including in China, is very different from the old Chinese gooseberries. It was heavily modified by selective breeding, which effectively resulted in a different fruit.Royalcourtier (talk) 00:59, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Red kiwifruit image

I have reverted the caption on the image in the Cultivars section to read "Red kiwifruit slices". The file was created 10 years ago and it shows an image of red kiwifruit at that time. The name of the file correctly says "File:Red kiwi fruit slices.jpg". To see how our image compares with an image on an authoritative site, see "Enza red kiwifruit image" Moriori (talk) 02:45, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Fascinating new kiwifruit. Would be interesting to have some breeding information about how this fruit evolved, its phytochemistry, and any organoleptic properties. --Zefr (talk) 03:18, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

red kiwifruit= A. melanandra the fruit you had is a hybrid golden kiwi and green kiwi. Please stop changing2600:1008:B124:3D1A:49D3:182F:F346:237 (talk) 14:20, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

From the Wikipedia kiwifruit page

One of the most attractive varieties has a red 'iris' around the center of the fruit and yellow flesh outside. The yellow fruit fetches a higher market price and, being less hairy than the fuzzy kiwifruit, is more palatable for consumption without peeling.[14]
A commercially viable[18] variety of this red-ringed kiwifruit, patented as the EnzaRed™, is a cultivar of the Chinese hong yang variety.[12][13]

A little research before complaining about someone else being wrong would be helpful and waste less time. 2600:1008:B124:3D1A:49D3:182F:F346:237 (talk) 14:24, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Nutrition discussion

I checked and edited the "Full reports" for green and gold kiwifruit as presented in the USDA Nutrient Database for entries 09148 and 09520, respectively, found here and here. The amounts used are 100 grams, a standard amount allowing comparison between different kiwifruit cultivars and among other foods, as used standardly across WP nutrition tables. Green kiwi has significant content only of vitamins C and K, and gold kiwi is rich only in vitamin C. The tables speak for themselves regarding other nutrients, indicating a relatively low nutritional value overall. --Zefr (talk) 21:32, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks 2602:304:415C:56C9:3C2A:160B:C0AD:17DA (talk) 18:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

History?

A Chinese poem written in the 8th to 7th century mentions the kiwifruit. In a translation by James Legge (http://ctext.org/book-of-poetry/xi-you-chang-chu), the plant is translated as the carambola because both the Chinese names of the kiwi fruit and the carambola sound similar. However, the general consensus is that the chang chu is the kiwi fruit. The corresponding page of "chang chu" on Baidu Baike (https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%8B%8C%E6%A5%9A) mentions the ancient poem. Therefore, the research referenced on this page could be in error? Gcjdavid (talk) 09:55, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Some needed updates

In researching a presentation about kiwifruit / vines, I am finding quite a bit of newer info missing here that will lead to some updates. I will work on this, but am giving some advance notice as this page seems to have some ugly editwarring around recent revisions. Some info may more properly reside on specific pages about species but those pages are woefully out of date, inadequate, and even wrong. The article on Actinidia arguta is more complete than for A. deliciosa and A. chinensis, but it has some dissonances from this article. The sub-section here on A. chinensis is more detailed than the separate article.

= Pests and diseases Needed updates includes pests and diseases for Actinidia deliciosa and A. chinensis.

Five varieties of Pseudomonas syringae disease (Psa), three highly virulent. Italy (and vicinity) and Korea especially hard-hit by two strains not yet in New Zealand. A. deliciosa 'Hayward' being replaced by some growers, with successfully top-grafting [of ?] onto existing Bruno rootstock. A. chinensis 'Hort16A' (highly susceptible) being replaced with A. chinesis 'Gold3' . This is described in section on fruit but not under diseases. Am considering best approach.

Also (convincingly) identified as major insect pests are Brown Marmorated Stink Bug and different fruit flies such as Spotted winged drosophilla. Need to finish lining up my sources (simultaneous with my talk). Here is one:

http://www.kvh.org.nz/most_unwanted -- and related PDF http://www.kvh.org.nz/vdb/document/100681

= Hardy kiwi / kiwiberry Hardy kiwi varieties are exploding, are seeing a big uptick in the commercial and home-grown market. I notice far more variation for selection of A. arguta in fruit catalogs than of A. deliciosa and A. chinensis -- though perhaps my catalog pool is unbalanced. Here is a good photo of hardy kiwi varieties: http://www.kiwiberry.com/picts/12forKEJ2b.jpg

GeeBee60 (talk) 17:28, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Although the topics are worthy of updates, please use high-quality secondary sources per WP:SCIRS. While KVH has a role in industry and can be used as a source, better secondary sources would take a broader view and incorporate other information unrelated to KVH's biosecurity focus. --Zefr (talk) 17:46, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. And this is why ideas for updates are first appearing here. Talk can be (ought to be) a good way to start a discussion that can lead to article improvements. I stated that I need to line up more sources -- and any help that you want to offer is welcome. In the meantime I will argue that even commerce oriented organizations can and do produce credible valuable documents, even if some of their publications are shameless pieces of P.R. New Zealand has the advantage of being isolated and ought to focus on potential hazards. Yes, Zespri and KVH puts their concerns in the best possible light -- so do you and I. PSA obviously is a global problem, SWD is a nasty pest in other parts or the world including where I live (Puget Sound USA), and just the other day I caught a BMSB in our home (winter season). GeeBee60 (talk) 17:20, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR should be New Zealand English

This page is in the WikiProject of New Zealand but no other country. There is no specific WP:ENGVAR defined for this page. Recent edits have replaced "flavour" with "flavor", "colour" with "color" and "centre" with "center". However, in its early years (2002 until about 2010, based on browsing the edit history) this article appears to have used NZ English such as "flavour". Somewhere along the line, US spellings have crept in and not been reverted properly.

Can I propose formally adopting New Zealand English for this page? Tayste (edits) 22:42, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I totally agree.

Morgan Leigh | Talk 08:54, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Disagree. Currently this article uses British English (if you want to tag it, tag it thusly), I would not be opposed to switching it to American English, but would be strongly opposed to switching it to New Zealand English.

• RANT AGAINST WikiProject of New Zealand
  • Maybe we should use Chinese English as more is grown in China. In all seriousness this is a waste of time. I requested a re-review of this page over 4 years ago on the WikiProject of New Zealand page, and no one responded yet. This is the first thing anyone from the project wants to do? It seems kind of like a man getting a wife and not seeing her after. What’s the point of claiming something as yours if you don’t maintain it. Hell, maintance is most of the fun.

Morgan Leigh's changes illustrate why it must not be CHANGED to New Zealand English. Leigh twice tried to modify the heading section to indicate that Kiwis don't call kiwis kiwis (at least I crack myself up because I know no one else is laughing). This info is already found in the article why keep adding it to the heading (as if this is the most important thing about kiwis). Besides the vast majority of the English speaking world calls them kiwis.

• MAIN POINT
  • Kiwi is a valid name, it is in the dictionary as the preferred usage. New Zealand is a small nation its usage of this word is at best trivia. What am I to do, find new common names for all the varieties of small kiwi berries because they are called kiwis not kiwifruit, names that are less common less recognizable and may or not come up in a google search? Zefr, Moriori, Plantdrew, and I (all the major editors for this page) have been fighting the zeal of these New Zealanders (look at that another pun) for years in their attempt to convert this article to New Zealand English by removing the usage of the most common name for the fruit. 2600:1000:B116:E43D:F40D:1703:4A7E:8AC1 (talk) 18:53, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

"The vast majority" doing / not doing something is hardly a persuasive reason against using NZEnglish -- we well know that the majority has been wrong more than a few times. Whether or not the article uses NZEnglish, the article and we need to adopt Kiwifruit and Kiwiberry as preferred terms and reduce the use of Kiwi for Actinidia fruits and vines. KIWI is the Maori name for a unique flightless bird native only to New Zealand, the name long predating European colonization. Yes, adopting distinct terms for kiwi, kiwifruit, and kiwiberry is a bit awkward at first, but all but the most intractable will accept these changes without much difficulty or hesitancy. Obviously the grocer is not going to be confused and check the stockroom for a squat long-billed bird when someone asks for kiwis. But conversely, the public will be minimally confused by labels that include "fruit" or "berry" in the signage. BTW, I have never been to NZ, am born and based in NW USA.GeeBee60 (talk) 06:27, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Except in languages, common usage is exactly what makes things correct or incorrect. As a second note before the poster of this comment changed the article they were only three or four usages of the British spellings. The article was converted from something that was essentially an American English for over 7 years. That being said please point out any inconsistencies in the article or change them yourself.2600:1008:B005:4C51:8944:7174:26CF:6085 (talk) 17:55, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Greek version?

I hope someone whose Modern Greek is better than mine can create a Greek version of this article, as Greek is one of the few European languages that doesn't call the fruit by some name with 'kiwi' (or 'kivi') in it - instead, the word is ακτινίδιο ('aktinídhio'), which is surely derived from the Latin genus name 'Actinidia', but that in turn must be related to the Greek ακτίνα ('aktína'), 'ray' (as in a ray of the sun, or X-rays - evidently a reference to the ray-like pattern in the flesh). Greece now also exports the fruit.