Talk:Jon Moxley

Changing active status / departure

Please do not change Dean Ambrose's active status with World Wrestling Entertainment until his name is removed from wwe.com, their official site. Until his name is officially removed, his status is to be considered part of a storyline. All official accounts of WWE still have him as an active member of the roster. CoopDEtat19 (talk) 22:57, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

On WWE.com's Superstars page, he has no longer listed with the active roster and has been moved to the alumni section. --Daboyle250 (talk) 19:23, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Due to that new information, I have changed the article accordingly. WWE said he had his last match with them, he is now removed from the roster page, not sure what else would be needed. StaticVapor message me! 19:39, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2019

Change article from 'Dean Ambrose' to 'Jon Moxley' 174.80.204.118 (talk) 05:45, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: page move requests should be made at Wikipedia:Requested moves. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 13:36, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Also see WP:COMMONNAME. StaticVapor message me! 01:44, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

New Japan Pro-Wrestling announcement

Moxley revealed in a video package on Twitter (https://twitter.com/JonMoxley/status/1132868564132741120) that he'll be debuting for NJPW on June 6th 2019. This should be noted in the article.

It's June 5th. You could have easily have found a reliable source for this as well. I will add it to the article. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 06:44, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 27 May 2019

Dean Ambrose → Jon Moxley – He is now wrestling full time under this name, and wrestling media has switched over to using this name for him as per [1], [2], [3], and [4] Winter's Tulpa (talk) 23:14, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME; see a similar discussion at Talk:Emma (wrestler)#Requested move 15 February 2018. 8 years in WWE as Dean Ambrose outweighs 3 weeks on the indies as Jon Moxley. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:53, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

  3 weeks is inaccurate, NotTheFakeJTP. From 2004 to 2011 he wrestled as Jon Moxley. starship.paint (talk) 03:10, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

  So are you saying that because he was in WWE he should only be known by his WWE name?Nhajivandi (talk) 03:28, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

To both Starship.paint and Nhajivandi. He's best known as his time in WWE as Dean Ambrose, He wasn't well known as Moxley before joining WWE to become Dean Ambrose. He hasn't done anything since changing his name back to Moxley and leaving WWE except joining AEW. TheDeviantPro (talk) 03:31, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

@TheDeviantPro: - I get what you’re saying and I mostly agree - you haven’t said he also joined NJPW. I was just pointing out the factual inaccuracy in your first comment - you neglected to mention his first 7-8 years as a wrestler. starship.paint (talk) 04:51, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

@Starship.paint: - I did mention his first 7-8 years as a wrestler by saying he wasn't well known as Moxley during that time period, he's most known by his time in the WWE as Dean Ambrose. On AEW and NJPW, he hasn't really done anything in those promotions since leaving WWE. People like Bubba Ray Dudley and John Morrison have been using other ring names such as Bully Ray and Johnny Impact in ROH, Impact, ect since leaving WWE. But use their articles names uses their common names based on majority of sources in their articles. You haven't given any solid argument in going against WP:COMMONNAME, which says we name the article based what majority sources calls the subject or person, which majority of sources in the article refers him as Dean Ambrose not Jon Moxley. Also I'm not NotTheFakeJTP. TheDeviantPro (talk) 05:49, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

@TheDeviantPro: - Really sorry for the identity mix-up - so I have struck my comment. Now, I didn't argue for a name change - you can see my other comment below. I was just pointing out a factual inaccuracy. starship.paint (talk) 06:55, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

I understand that he used the name prior, but my point remains: 8 years in the world's most popular promotion ousts 8 years elsewhere. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:41, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose as per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:TOOSOON; he hasn't really done anything since changing his ringname back to Jon Moxley other than debuting in AEW. TheDeviantPro (talk) 00:06, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose per COMMONNAME. StaticVapor message me! 00:54, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support per starshp.paint If he has wrestled before from 2004-11 as Moxley, and he is going back to his old name, Then I say Change it. I think by a few months time, people will forget the name Dean Ambrose and just say Moxley. Nhajivandi (talk) 03:23, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

  To be honest Nhajivandi, I think Ambrose is still his WP:COMMONNAME right now, and that's a good reason to keep the article as it is. We can maybe come back in six months or a year and see if that's changed. starship.paint (talk) 05:39, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• Support He isn't known as Dean Ambrose anymore and wont be for the foreseeable future. Why keep him as Dean Ambrose when he is about to debut in NJPW as Jon Moxley and has already debuted in AEW as Jon Moxley Mrbill0327 (talk) 23:45, 27 May 2019

People already gave a reason why we should keep the article title as Dean Ambrose as per WP:COMMONNAME. Bubba Ray Dudley is known as Bully Ray in Ring of Honor, Impact and the independent circuit but he still commonly referred as Bubba Ray Dudley. The same reason is applied here, he's now performing as Jon Moxley but he's still being commonly referred as Dean Ambrose. TheDeviantPro (talk) 04:02, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose - Clear WP:COMMONNAME. This happens almost every time a wrestler changes their in-ring name. The current title is still the most common name. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:07, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose - Simply too soon. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 13:08, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose - 3 of the 4 sourced mentioned in the proposal are by sources that fail WP:RS. There are plenty of WP:RS that still refer to him as Dean Ambrose. - Galatz גאליץ^{שיחה Talk} 17:21, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
  • While I guess I can see the objection to WhatCulture, I'm mystified how two out of CBS News, Turner's Bleacher Report, or Vox's Cageside Seats could possibly be argued to be unreliable; these are mainstream media outlets. Winter's Tulpa (talk) 20:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
• I'm genuinely mystified how WP:COMMONNAME can be argued to support leaving the article at its current title. To quote the policy, "If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well." An even cursory scan of news articles since his name change make it clear that the dominant trend in headline writing is to use Jon Moxley. Winter's Tulpa (talk) 20:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME also states that we name a article based the name that is most commonly used by majority of sources in article ("it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)"). The majority of sources refer him as Dean Ambrose not Jon Moxley, so WP:COMMONNAME is a valid argument. WP:NAMECHANGES only applies if sources after his name change only refer him by Jon Molxey. The policy also says "If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well". Majority of sources in article added after his name change also mentions his former ring name. TheDeviantPro (talk) 04:02, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

The fact that they are saying that it's his former name seems not to fulfill "commonly used" or "prevalence." Once the fact that Moxley was formerly known as Ambrose is established, the articles are using Moxley. This seems like a straightforward application of WP:COMMONNAME and I'm baffled that there's any dispute here. The policy is as straightforward as it gets in this case: if media changes over following someone's name change, so should we. Winter's Tulpa (talk) 12:17, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Support: You're gonna do it in 2 months anyways. Just do it now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:203:0:2563:34C6:A6CD:ED49:7BAD (talk) 04:46, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

• Support - Jon Moxley is his name now, it's been his name for years in the past, and it's by far the most common name I've seen used for him since he left WWE. Wicka wicka (talk) 13:04, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose – as per WP:COMMONNAME and other reasons above. Movies Time (talk) 13:20, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support "Dean Ambrose" is a character in WWE which is now retired, the man who played the character no longer uses the name, there's no indication he will use it again in the future, he uses "Jon Moxley" now, that's what he's referred to as and there's every indication he'll continue to use it and be referred to as it in the future. Rambo Apocalypse (talk) 14:28, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

In that case, we would have to change the article's name every time a wrestler changes his ringname. It's not about his current stage name/gimmick, it's about which stage name/gimmick is more known. Several other wrestlers have previous ringnames, like Chris Masters, Rockstar Spud, Hanson and Ray Rowe... --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:56, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

• Support - As per above. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 16:04, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose - As per WP:COMMONNAME. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:47, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support (Bes2224 (talk) 17:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC))

@Bes2224: Your reason being...? This is WP:NOTAVOTE, but a consensus. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:31, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

@NotTheFakeJTP: Haha, look at you getting all upset about Wikipedia.WP:Search engine test is my reason. Happy? (Bes2224 (talk) 21:18, 30 May 2019 (UTC))

@Bes2224: Who said I was getting upset? There are multiple different viewpoints, and I was just making sure you knew that saying "Support" without reasoning is not constructive in a discussion like this. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:41, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose - Sounds like bias from Indy fans to me. Unless he becomes SUPER successful in AEW or other promotions, he will always be known as Dean Ambrose purely because WWE will forever be the biggest wrestling company in the world. --Solitude6nv5 (talk) 20:45, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

@Solitude6nv5:, complaining about people who like independent wrestling is not a valid reason to not change it. Let's ignore that he is getting a shot at the IWGP United States Championship in New Japan under his current ring name. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 22:14, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

• Support - Opposition sounds like bias from WWE fans to me. He is now performing under the ring-name Jon Moxley, and that is the ring-name he has used for half of his career. Wikipedia shouldn't ignore the current situation just to play to the myopia of WWE fans. -AnOrdinaryBoy (talk) 9:42, 30 May 2019 (JST)

Yep, because any who disagree with the move is automatically a WWE fan; not because they are giving actual valid arguments against the move. Do you have any actual valid argument other than "bias from WWE fans"?. TheDeviantPro (talk) 03:59, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

First off, he clearly states a valid argument: Jon Moxley is his current ring name, and he used it for his entire pre-WWE career. It's childish to ignore this. And secondly, read the comment immediately above his. That's CLEARLY written by a WWE fan who doesn't want to acknowledge the world of wrestling outside of WWE. Wicka wicka (talk) 16:05, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

This is not a WWE Fan vs Indy fan. It's not about WWE or independent circuit, it's about wikipedia policies. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 21:01, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

@HHH Pedrigree: Dude, look five god damn lines up. Wicka wicka (talk) 12:46, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

So intelligent. That first sentence totally hasn't already been said above. Totally. Solitude6nv5 (talk) 07:51, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

• Support Jonathan Good's current ring name is Jon Moxley, i can understand the argument of this ring name being farily new but i disagree entirely that he should be referred to and searched as Dean Ambrose. He has signed a multi year deal with both New Japan Pro Wrestling and All Elite Wrestling, meaning that for the forseeable future he will be referred to and known as Jon Moxley. It would be unfair and disrespectful to refer to this man as anything other than Jon Moxley, just because he's "Best Known As", Dean Ambrose is a charachter and a named trademarked and owned by WWE that is no longer in active use. His twitter handle and profiling all refer to his current ring name as Jon Moxley. This is not an off the cusp ring name that will change several times within the coming months, this all makes his profiling as Dean Ambrose completely inaccurate and outdated. I am in Support of his profiling to be listed and refered to as Jon Moxley. JohnDelvally1 (talk) 00:51, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
  • In that case, the article would be rename when he gain worldwide fame as Moxley, no CRYSTALBALL. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:56, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

@JohnDelvally1: It is actually not new. He used Jon Moxley before signing with the WWE when he was working the independents and made appearances in other bigger promotions. Just because you may not know any of his work before WWE doesn't mean "Jon Moxley" is new. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 16:17, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

• Support - He gained a majority of his notoriety as Jon Moxley, tho true he gained a following in WWE as Dean Ambrose nothing could compare to the time spent using the Moxley name. He worked many promotions as Jon Moxley traveled the world as and worked for well respected promotions like ROH, CZW, TNA and many others as Jon Moxley. He made a name for himself as Jon Moxley which caught the attention of the WWE who quickly forced a name change but also a mention back in his early career he worked as Jon Moxley for the WWE on shows Velocity and Sunday Night Heat. Now once again wrestling as Jon Moxley he will gain even more years using the name surpassing the amount of time he spent as Dean Ambrose. Eerie Holiday (talk) 05:26, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Are you comparing time? You have to compare impact. As Moxley, before WWE he was just a indy wrestler. As Ambrose, he became a worldwide superstar. No matter if he spent 10 years as Moxley, 4 years as WWE superstars is much more. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:56, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
• Strong oppose Common name and too soon. Maybe in a few years, Moxley is the common name for Jonathan. Right now, after his run with WWE, (part of The Shield, Grand Slam champion, Money in the Bank winner) he is known worldwide and outside the wrestling world as Dean Ambrose. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:56, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose I strongly agree to what HHH Pedrigree said. Barca (talk) 13:15, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support He should be known as Jon Moxley as that’s his current wrestling name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.108.67 (talk) 14:09, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose Most know him as Dean Ambrose right now, so I'd say keep it as that. If things keep on going where his John Moxley name really gets rolling and that name sticks in the mainstream, then I'd consider a change. LancasterMCFCfan (talk) 02:54, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support Moxley was originally his indie name before WWE and he is using it in AEW and New Japan Pro-Wrestling which are 2 of the 5 biggest pro-wrestling companies in the world. Media sources Such as ESPN refer to him as Jon Moxley now.Froo (talk) 08:14, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support He was Dean Ambrose and has only been Dean Ambrose in WWE. Before WWE he was Jon Moxley. After WWE, he is Jon Moxley. Unless something changes, he is Jon Moxley wherever else he goes in the foreseeable future.SkylerLovefist (talk) 10:54, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support Every piece of media refers to the wrestler Jon Moxley. 65.205.231.250 (talk) 14:31, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support He is now actively performing as Jon Moxley, and he has spent a great deal of his wrestling career under this name; I would maybe be of a different opinion were this a new name he has debuted for AEW, but it's more of a reversion than an outright change. I feel the article should reflect that he is more commonly known as Dean Ambrose however. Connelly90 15:17, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support Wrestling and sports media is now widely referring to him as Moxley. Ambrose is effectively a retired character.The Kip (talk) 16:24, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support Per WP:COMMONNAME -"Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match." Numerous sources (e.g. NYPost, ESPN ) are now using Jon Moxley in their headlines. Capnchicken (talk) 16:29, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support I support this change, only because we can redirect the "Dean Ambrose" page to the "Jon Moxley" page. He went by the Jon Moxley name for nearly 7 years before he joined WWE, and while he's probably more known for his time in WWE to the mainstream, having the search "Dean Ambrose" redirect to "Jon Moxley" should be more than sufficient to the average Wikipedia user to see that a change in his character occurred. --GusterPosey (talk) 17:57, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support - Lets not be purposely behind the times here in order to support a policy I'm not sure applies. Dean Ambrose is a stage name held for a certain portion of his career, and I think it is common sense that he won't be referred to that very much in the near future. He's also an actual real person, not just an article. If he no longer goes by the prior name, and is still notable under his current name, then it's just plain weird to argue to ignore the reality of how this person is referred to in real life. Or call him Good and be done with it. Isingness (talk) 07:26, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately the whole point of wiki policy is to create a framework for ignoring common sense. Wicka wicka (talk) 12:47, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose Half the people supporting a move are just AEW fanboys who don't know how COMMONNAME applies. There's about 3 million google results for Jon Moxley [5] and about 11 million for Dean Ambrose. [6] We know which one is more common. The fact he used the name Jon Moxley before Dean Ambrose doesn't mean anything, because he was virtually unknown. He only became known because of the name Dean Ambrose. Now that he uses the name Jon Moxley, he'll have to do something notable other than debut for AEW, which isn't anything. — Moe Epsilon 14:20, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Insulting the opposing side is not a good way to get your point across. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:13, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

If you're a regular editor of Wikipedia you wouldn't be insulted. You can tell half the people commenting here are new accounts who come from outside the website (fans of AEW), don't try to tell me otherwise. — Moe Epsilon 16:30, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

If it helps, there is a post in Reddit informing about the discussion. I suppose some people just created the account for this topic. [7] --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:45, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Was anything he said actually incorrect, though? GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 15:36, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

• Stong oppose There is no evidence that AEW will ever be on the level of WWE. We all want it to happen, but as of now they are just like ROH and Impact in the "glorified indie" boat, while CZW is an indie GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 14:55, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

@HHH Pedrigree: Hey look! Two more comments that are clearly WWE fans trying to turn this into an us vs them situation. Wicka wicka (talk) 15:38, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

If you're referring to me, I expect a retraction and an apology. I came to the article and noticed the discussion after editing Kenny Omega, thank you very much. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 16:19, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

And since I know you're referring to me, you need to read what I wrote and then use comprehension. I didn't mention WWE. It's about the name of the article and what's the most common and I provided stats based on Google. — Moe Epsilon 16:30, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Both of you are lazy concern trolls. Grow up. Wicka wicka (talk) 19:54, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Article titles are determined by what the common name is, it's been Wikipedia policy. But, instead of having any intelligent response to how it's determined, you just call it a troll. You're not doing your fan base any favors. — Moe Epsilon 23:54, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

1. You ARE a troll. 2. The fact that you are talking about my supposed "fan base" is exactly why you are a troll and should be ignored. This discussion has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with different promotions and their different fan bases. YOU made it that. YOU are a bad faith actor trying to start a fanboy war in a simple discussion about which name is more relevant. Stop doing this immediately, and please don't send a sealion reply where you pretend to cry about me "attacking" you. Wicka wicka (talk) 12:10, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

I read this entire response as "I get to attack you and if you say I am, then it means you're trolling". I've been on this website for fifteen years and that's one of the more absurd things I've heard. I agree it has nothing to do with other promotions, I've said that already, if you had reading comprehension. This is about the article title. He's only used this name for a few weeks, and the years he used it previously he was not notable before coming to WWE. You haven't really argued against that and only shown that you can't because it's actually you obsessed with WWE fans, and not the other way around. If you think I'm a bad faith editor, then you can do something about it or piss off. — Moe Epsilon 14:58, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

• Support It's more current. It's not a matter of AEW vs WWE. MattBinYYC (talk) 22:45, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Please, read WP:Recentism and WP:COMMONNAME. Thanks --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:47, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

• Support His official verified Twitter account with followers more than 700k has the name Jon Moxley. I think that is enough to change the title to Jon Moxley.— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|JonFkinMoxley (talk) 10:13, 4 June 2019 (UTC)]] comment added by JonFkinMoxley (talk • contribs) 10:05, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

• Jon Moxley is a brand, like when a commercial product's name is changed or the product is discontinued, the formerly used name is not used anywhere so, how many google results are associated with Dean Ambrose doesn't matter, what matters is what is it called presently, so change the name to Jon Moxley as he is known by this name now. And when we search Jon Moxley, his Wikipedia page is shown under the title Dean Ambrose, so it is highly absurd to not update the title of this page. It only makes sense if WWE is somehow involved in opposing this change to not let Jon Moxley brand grow further. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JonFkinMoxley (talk • contribs) 11:07, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

As Moe Episol said, Dean Ambrose in Goggle has 11 million results. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 10:39, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME specifically cautions against using a Google search in this manner. Wicka wicka (talk) 12:12, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Since, again, we have someone outside Wikipedia making duplicate 'votes', I have combined their statements. — Moe Epsilon 11:15, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

According to WP:ADMINGUIDE/P the page should be protected only for a short time, and not forever. And secondly going by the discussion on this name change i can say the opposers are clearly more motivated than the supporters, I don't know why they are biased on a simple thing like updating the title of the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JonFkinMoxley (talk • contribs) 11:40, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

@Wicka wicka: you have given really good support points for updating the title of this page to Jon Moxley, and opposers should put extra focus on my usage of word Updating. The title of the page is 'outdated' and it needs to be updated to Jon Moxley. When every news company, wrestling journalists, podcaster, the man himself is using his name to be Jon Moxley, why should wikipedia be not updated. Wikipedia is the topmost source for knowing correct information regarding anything on internet, the name of this page needs to be changed to Jon Moxley immediately.

You really need to be signing your comments, and no offense, but User:JonFkinMoxley speaking up strongly in favor of renaming the article to Jon Moxley is not a good look. Maybe pump the brakes a bit.

And no, the page does not need to be renamed immediately. It's important to get the name right but Jon Moxley still redirects here. There's no problem with leaving it as it is for now. Wicka wicka (talk) 12:32, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

@Wicka wicka: I don't get it, when every other media source of information is updated, one of the most reliable source wikipedia isn't updated. it will be updated sooner than later, so fine by me. User:JonFkinMoxley

• Comment I already supported the move above, but I'd just like to quote this line from WP:COMMONNAME as I think it's especially relevant:

Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match.

It's quite clear that the overwhelming majority of sources written after his departure from WWE refer to him as Jon Moxley. Wicka wicka (talk) 13:27, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

• Comment Yes when you even search on google Dean Ambrose there are many sources including Forbes that come up and they use Jon Moxley as the name, and when one searches Jon Moxley on google all the results show articles using Jon Moxley as the name, only wikipedia stands out as an 'outdated' source of information as it is still using Dean Ambrose. User:FkinJonMoxley21 —Preceding undated comment added 13:46, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
• Comment I'll wait for someone to argue this, again. The article title should be what most people know him as. Obviously no one knows him as his real name so the options are Jon Moxley and Dean Ambrose and when you look at a timeline of when he used both names:

• Jon Moxley (2004 - 2011): Was not a notable wrestler until about the last year prior to him signing with WWE.
• Dean Ambrose (2011 - 2019): Notable wrestler who accomplished a lot during his time with the largest wrestling organization in the world.
• Jon Moxley (2019 - present): It's been a few weeks since changing his name.

Unless you are seriously arguing his last three weeks have been more notable than the last eight years, then you not understanding Wikipedia conventions on naming articles. — Moe Epsilon 15:11, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

"Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match."

Any response to this, the part of WP:COMMONNAME that actually applies to this situation? Are you going to openly admit to being wrong, slink away quietly, or continue to argue in bad faith? Wicka wicka (talk) 16:51, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Right, well the project that maintains professional wrestling articles doesn't typically follow suit with every gimmick change for professional wrestlers. It's been three weeks and he hasn't done anything. Literally, hasn't done anything, but change his name and walk out onto a PPV. Were not changing Goldust to Dustin Rhodes for the same reason. It's not about whether he actually uses the name now, we know he does, but he hasn't done anything. If John Cena changed his gimmick to something else, we wouldn't change the article title. That's not how the encyclopedia works, and for obvious reasons. For wrestlers we stick with the most established name i.e John Morrison (wrestler), not Johnny Impact, Johnny Mundo, etc. So again, are you telling me besides changing his name on Twitter and walking out on an AEW show, that negates the fact he established his notability the last eight years elsewhere? It doesn't, but you know that. — Moe Epsilon 17:35, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

And to further drive this point home:

• Wikipedia was established in 2001.
• Ambrose started wrestling in 2004 as Moxley.
• The article on Ambrose wasn't created until 2010, a year before he started wrestling for WWE.

So really, this further establishes the point that most of what he did under the name Jon Moxley wasn't notable until now, and the most notable thing he's done is debut for AEW. Big whoop. — Moe Epsilon 17:48, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

"Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match."

"Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match."

"Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match."

"Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match."

"Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match."

"Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match."

Are you capable of reading this sentence yet? Wicka wicka (talk) 19:07, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

You need to calm the fuck down and not have a heart attack. I'm telling you how every wrestling article is typically named and for what reason, and I provided a couple of examples (Goldust, John Morrison), and you're telling me I am fabricating it. Did you want more examples? Ethan Carter III, who had a more established career in TNA than WWE thus far, Raymond Rowe, who currently wrestles as Erik, Máscara Dorada, not Gran Metalik. I can keep going. How about you learn how naming conventions work before you just randomly recite policy like you know what you're talking about to back up your bias? — Moe Epsilon 19:14, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

The existence of other articles that conflict with our naming guidelines does not change the fact that we should follow our guidelines here. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The other wrestlers you list are all arguably much less notable than Jon Moxley, thus there are far less reliable sources that refer to them by their new names. Wicka wicka (talk) 19:21, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

p.s. I know how naming conventions work, I'm the person who keeps telling you what our naming conventions are. Ironically, you can't seem to grasp them, despite my repeated efforts. One day we will overcome this. Wicka wicka (talk) 19:24, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

1) No, otherstuff is a reference to how other stuff exists during AFD/CFD/etc discussions, and has absolutely nothing to do with article naming conventions. So, nice try? 2) No, they have plenty of references to their new name, just as much as Jon Moxley. It's not a matter of references or reliable sources, it's a matter of how we name articles on Wikipedia. It's also not about their current name, it's about their most established names, like with the examples I provided. You can not predict how notable they will be with their new name. He may end up resigning with WWE tomorrow, reverting back to Dean Ambrose, he may wrestle as Jon Moxley for a year before retiring, and in which case Dean Ambrose would be the best article title. He may end up wrestling 15 more years as Moxley, in which case sometime during that, Moxley would be the better title. He may fall and break his neck and never wrestle again. The point being, is YOU don't know. We base the article title based on what has occurred and how most people know him as. Right now, that's Ambrose. — Moe Epsilon 19:31, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Do I need to post the guideline again? None of what you are saying is relevant to this decision making process. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a person's most notable name. YOU MADE THIS UP. IT IS NOT A REAL STANDARD. Wicka wicka (talk) 19:51, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

• Comment Most people who follow him and his whereabouts know that he was named Jon Moxley before and 'NOW' he is again named as Jon Moxley, so updating his name is a sane choice. When the person himself is using Jon Moxley as his name, how can the people decide for this. Updating the name is the sane choice, as various reliable sources have updated his name. -User:FkinJonMoxley21

Change the picture with some recent one.

Change Jon Moxley's picture, it is very outdated. The picture is from 2016. So updating a picture with something from late 2018 to 2019 would be a good choice FkinJonMoxley21 (talk) 16:08, 4 June 2019 (UTC)