Talk:Saint Patrick

St. Patrick's Birthplace, Place of Burial and Shrines

There is absolutely no definitive, provable birthplace or place of burial for Patrick. Surely it makes sense to use the term "possibly" along with suggestions of various, debated places of origin? E.g. "Possibly Roman Britain", "Possibly Roman France". On the subject of major shrines, surely major Irish shrines should be listed? (Croagh Patrick, for example?) Thanks.

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2019

Can you please check this: St. Patrick died about 460/461 as the article says but the date of his death given on the top says 385- 431.

Thank you. 109.255.91.39 (talk) 19:21, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting that! Those incorrect years had been recently added and had been overlooked. – Þjarkur (talk) 20:39, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Germanus and Catocus

In tracing the mission of Germanus of Auxerre to Britain in 429, I've come across 19thc. scholarship that refers to Cattug/Catocus/Catwg as a member of that mission along with Patrick, with a suggestion that Catocus also turned up in Ireland. I can't find the sources for these assertions, and am wondering if there's any substance to them. Shtove 00:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

What 19th century sources are you getting this from? It's very likely that Palladius was an associate of Germanus, as according to Prosper Germanus was sent to Britain by Celestine on the recommendation of a deacon called Palladius, and the same pope then appointed Palladius, presumably the same one, as the first bishop to the Irish. Perhaps your source thought Palladius and Patrick were the same person? --Nicknack009 (talk) 11:44, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Here's one discussing Patrick in Germanus's mission - the lengthy note a at the foot of p.21: https://archive.org/details/councilsecclesia01hadduoft/page/21/mode/1up

It does cover your suggestion of mistaking one for the other. I have somewhere another source that accepts the possible mistake at face value, but can't find it just now - and it's likely that source hasn't considered the possibility.

Any inklings about Cattug/Catocus/Catwg in respect of that mission? Shtove 16:31, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Now I see where you're coming from. There is a tradition, found in Fiacc's Hymn and many of the medieval lives of Patrick, that after he escaped from slavery, he went to the continent and studied with Germanus and others. Victorian scholars tended to regard these medieval Irish texts as historical sources. Most modern scholars don't. The only authentic sources on Patrick are his Confession and Letter, which make no reference to Germanus. The later sources are all unreliable and unverifiable. In particular, the traditions associating him with Germanus, as your link points out, most likely derive from a confusion between Patrick and Palladius.

No idea about Catocus. The only person of that name I'm aware of is St. Cadoc, who is supposed to have lived the following century. --Nicknack009 (talk) 19:15, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Cheers! And I've reached the same conclusion on Catocus. The query arose from the stone carvings at Lady St Mary's in Wareham, which seemed to stir up some aboriginal Wessex sentiment back in the day. Shtove 22:28, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2020

Please change X to Y, because the page seems to lack specific links to other places - especially within Somerset. Glastonbury has a rich link with both Irish pilgrims of the faith and St. Patrick to this day and I think linking it in wiki will only enrich and add further interest to the amazing knowledge that is here thus far. It will also add context to the mention of Glastonbury within the list of "major shrines" section. Thank you.

For reference - X reads:

"Patrick was born in Roman Britain. His birthplace is not known with any certainty; some traditions place it in England—one identifying it as Glannoventa (modern Ravenglass in Cumbria)[31]—but claims have also been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland [32] and Wales.[33]"

Edit request to change it to Y:

"Patrick was born in Roman Britain. His birthplace is not known with any certainty; some traditions place it in England—one identifying it as Glannoventa (modern Ravenglass in Cumbria)[31], with one historian claiming it to be Banwell in Somerset [Source 1] ,due it's location (access to the Bristol Channel) and is also close to Glastonbury - a place that has been commonly associated with his final resting place.[Source 2] Claims have also been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland (Kilpatrick) [32] and Wales.[33]"

[Source 1] http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artgue/guestjelley.htm & https://www.irishcatholic.com/new-light-on-st-patricks-birthplace/ [Source 2] 1 See H. P. R. Finberg. I.E.R. June 1967 "“pilgrims of Irish race, like many others of the faithful, frequented Glastonbury with great devotion, especially in honour of blessed Patrick, who is said to have ended his life happily 'there in the Lord”" Glaaaastonbury88 (talk) 08:12, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 09:44, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Questionable "Abduction Reinterpreted" Section

This section rests on the assertions of one scholar, whose argument on this subject has not been accepted in mainstream scholarship on Late Antiquity or St. Patrick. See the review by Diarmaid MacCulloch. https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n15/diarmaid-macculloch/who-kicked-them-out

I would propose eliminating the section outright, or, at least, adding a clear disclaimer that the opinion is not generally accepted.