List of Demi Lovato concert tours was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 07 August 2013 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Demi Lovato. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
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The current infobox image of Lovato "in 2020" is actually a reupload from this 2017 video. I suggest reverting to the legitimate 2020 image as it is newer, and maybe moving the 2017 image somewhere else in the article. Everyone needs to be careful with these Vogue Taiwan reuploads. I am also mad as one of my uploads from the channel was deleted but now others are being approved by reviewers! So much inconsistency over there... Heartfox (talk) 05:30, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No, it really shouldn't, but hey, we live at the stupidest time in history, so knock yourselves out, morons!
Using full name in lede
Since there's BLP concerns here, I've decided to be bold and remove Lovato's birth name "Demetria Devonne" from the lede. (Yes, I know I managed to fuck up the pronouns in that very edit summary. Sigh.) My rationale for this is simple: Normally when someone comes out as nonbinary and doesn't change their name, that doesn't implicate MOS:DEADNAME at all. However, in this case, we don't know whether they're comfortable being referred to as "Demetria". It's a name they have never gone by and almost never commented on even prior to coming out as nonbinary; and now that they have come out, the only name we can be sure they're okay with is the one they use: "Demi".
In light of this, I strongly feel that the article should not begin Demetria Devonne Lovato. What's not as clear is whether the name should appear at all in the lede. For now I've removed it entirely (while keeping it in the infobox and in § Early life), but the case could be made for Demi Lovato (born Demetria Devonne Lovato.... MOS:DEADNAME says A living transgender or non-binary person's former name should be included in the lead sentence of their main biographical article only if they were notable under it; introduce the name with "born" or "formerly" However, the examples given at MOS:DEADNAME are cases where the person was frequently referred to by the name in question. No one called pre-transition Elliot Page anything other than Ellen. This is a bit different. While it's reliably documented that "Demetria" is their birth name, they've never gone by it or been referred to by it in media. Thus my inclination is that it doesn't meet the standard of "if they were notable under it". Obviously someone who outwardly identified as a woman with the legal name Demetria Lovato was notable, but "Demetria Lovato" was never notable. Thus, I don't think there's a need to mention the name in the lede even in a "born Demetria" phrasing.-- Tamzin (she/they, no pref.) | o toki tawa mi.11:38, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
MOS:FULLNAME is clear that we should generally include full birthname in first sentence regardless of whether they were ever known by it. While we know this person is non-binary, I don't see evidence that they actually changed their name to be just "Demi" (vs being a reasonable short/nick form of "Demetria") or in some other way rejected the birthname as part of the gender change. We can't assume motive or opinion, so it might be harmful to force out their actual name that they may actually accept? That's unlike Page, who is now strictly Elliot instead of their different deadname. I don't object to removal in the lede (erring on the side of potential kindness and caution for BLP), but at least based on what we seem to know now, would oppose removal in other places. DMacks (talk) 17:13, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Samuel Frederick has had no problem with that. If Lovato wants to change their legal name to a neutral one, we will change it, but as of now, they (both) have not requested anyone to not use their legal names. (CC)Tbhotch™17:22, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I feel Tbhotch hit the nail right on the head (Sam Smith is indeed a similar case), and DMacks is correct that we can't simply assume Demi has changed their legal identity solely based on a change of pronouns and gender identity. Not sure I would've removed those details from the lead so quickly without confirmation of a name change, Tamzin, but I can see where you're coming from either way. It's definitely not as straightforward as Elliot Page's transition when it comes to names used (which was obviously intended to be used instead of a deadname and I hope this user doesn't mind how I boldly went ahead and changed their error out of consideration for Page). Unless we know for sure that Lovato has legally gone through a name change, I would certainly not remove any other mentions. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 18:03, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'd leave the birth name in the lede. I'm pretty sure it's possible, but rare, for someone to change their pronouns and gender identity without changing their name. As such, I think Sam Smith serves as precedent here. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK)18:12, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I don't see any indication that this is a former name. It is a strange thing to assume as a general principle, especially in this case where both "demi" and "demetria" are actually the same name – one is just a shortened version of the other – so it's not like we'd have a reason to believe their full legal name upsets them any more than their nickname/stage name does on principle or something. I'd be happy for it to be restored as per MOS:FULLNAME. (also, it's the lead). Edit: I've done just that. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 18:24, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I maintain my position, but respect the consensus. I do just want to note, though, that legally changing one's name is not mentioned at MOS:DEADNAME, so, if Lovato were to say, "My name is just 'Demi' now, not short for anything," that would as a matter of policy be sufficient to trigger MOS:DEADNAME. In fact, it's often not even possible to reliably tell whether someone has legally changed their name without looking through court records (which would violate WP:BLPPRIMARY).-- Tamzin (she/they, no pref.) | o toki tawa mi.00:06, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We of course wouldn't need Lovato to legally change their name for us to care (see: X González). It's just that "Demi" is still just short for "Demetria"; it's the same (traditionally girl's) name, so I don't think we really have any reason to believe it upsets them in a MOS:DEADNAME way in its full form vs. the shortened form unless they actually say so. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 07:14, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I was just making the point because two people had implied that a legal name change was required. (Also, "lede" forever! :P )-- Tamzin (she/they, no pref.) | o toki tawa mi.
Confusing sentence
In the Health section (perma-link), we have this line at the end, just before the following subsection: (emphasis mine, see ahead): In 2021, Lovato revealed they had been told by doctors that they believed their 2011 bipolar diagnosis was a misdiagnosis. They stated they came out with their initial diagnosis because it put reasoning behind their actions, but later realized they "had to grow the fuck up". Due to the pronoun changes, the use of "they" in these sentences is now ambiguous. Trying to rewrite this sentence is a pain, but maybe I'm just not good at it. Based on an earlier revision, I added emphasis to tell who's who: bold for Lovato and italic for the doctors. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK)18:33, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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Fixed. Thanks! -- Tamzin (she/they, no pref.) | o toki tawa mi. 11:13, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
Not done. If this is in-universe lore or something, please provide a citation to a reliable source saying so. -- Tamzin (she/they, no pref.) | o toki tawa mi. 07:23, 22 May 2021 (UTC)