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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 90.254.6.237 (talk) at 16:13, 22 June 2023 (→‎Splitting proposal: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Misinformation, misunderstanding of source articles

The section on titan limitations says "In addition, there is no on-board navigation system", but this is not supported by the referenced article and is somewhat contradicted by the fact that the vehicle has on-board DVL and INS per their spec sheets. It appears to be a complete extrapolation misunderstanding of the statements about no GPS underwater and being guided toward the destination by the support ship during transit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:4040:7EE1:3B00:AD72:1FD6:348B:7E3C (talk) 15:49, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lost of Titan Submersible

There are reports in the media that the vessel Titan (4000 metres) has went missing during a dive to the Titanic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872 82.152.97.18 (talk) 16:01, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I created the start of a draft article at Draft:OceanGate Titanic Expedition feel free to edit it, or move it to article-space as a stub. -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 20:12, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tethered?

Is the Titan u-boat tethered? --Alex42 (talk) 11:57, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, it isn't thethered. It's free floating trough the water collum.Yeti-Hunter (talk) 13:52, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Copy Violation

The sentences between ref mark 8 and the mark that a citation is needed, seem to be quite similar to this article:

https://web.archive.org/web/20230530032330/https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-ceo-pilots-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive

I think a different wording should be found. It's also unclear whether the cylindrical part of the hull is made of 660 layers of fiber as given in the unsourced text passage or whether it's made of more than 800 layers of fiber. But this is actually a minor detail on the submersible itself.Yeti-Hunter (talk) 13:52, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Possible source about the origin of the submersible

Hi at all, I found another article about OceanGates Submersible developments in the July 2017 issue of the CW Composites World magazine, which covers plenty of details of the production of the hull of Ocean Gates Cyclop 2 submersible which seems to be quite similar to Titan.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210804224656/http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters Yeti-Hunter (talk) 14:10, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 June 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. (closed by non-admin page mover) Schierbecker (talk) 00:48, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OceanGate, Inc. → OceanGate Expeditions – Per WP:NCCORP. Schierbecker (talk) 20:32, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OceanGate is actually a redirect to OceanGate, Inc. Schierbecker (talk) 00:47, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Rounded up" absurdity

"Calculations showed the cylinder that forms the center section of the crew compartment should be 114 mm (4.5 in) thick, which OceanGate rounded up to 127 mm (5.0 in)"

If you must include the notion of "rounding up" in reference to a life-critical engineering calculation, then please give inches as the primary measurement.

Nobody has ever rounded up 114mm to 127mm. 2A00:23EE:2658:8721:1122:4FD:855C:AEEC (talk) 22:02, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

checkY Resolved Wikentromere (talk) 18:09, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Saftey problems rooted weird corporate philosophy

Here is Stockton Rush expressing his corporate philosophy. He decries the involvement of "50 yr old white guys" rather prefers "inspirational" "25 year olds" https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ecz5wmanMxAo/ He does not put highly trained nuclear submarine professionals ahead of diveristy. It got him, and 4 other people killed, and likely will result in more oversight, stricter controls, lawsuits and tighter safety measure, ie more "50 yr old white guys". Reality bites.

Hello, I know this is not the right reply area, but this above topic has no reply button, nor signature, and I felt alarmed by this topic subject as well as the content linked. I do not believe this talk topic is useful to the discussion and clicking on the link that the unsigned person included leads you to a website that is rife with racist content. Can we please have this removed? Thanks. Parameci (talk) 14:18, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A policy of Wikipedia is that it generally isn’t censored , and also not a forum, but I’d say that the original reply is pretty antagonistic and is reading too far into it. Multiple sources, some of which are mentioned in the article, mention and describe the company’s corporate philosophy. And I believe the company’s repeated statements and actions regarding regulations, safety, and commercial innovation, etc. are bigger factors that helped lead to this tragic situation than what the original reply said about “diversity.” If you’re curious you can check this talk page history to see who added that section. I’m not sure why there’s no signature, maybe it’s a PC bug or something. Justanotherguy54 (talk) 04:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Units

We should probably choose either SI or US units as primary, and change the order of units in the text to match, per MOS:UNIT. If we decide this is a non-scientific article, that would be US. If it is a scientific article, then SI. GA-RT-22 (talk) 00:44, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 June 2023 (OceanGate)

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. I'm doing this as a speedy close instead of waiting the full week because of the prominence of the article in the news and the clarity of the consensus (WP:NOTBURO). In addition to a comfortable near-unanimous majority, arguments in favor of the move are consistent with longstanding guidelines, and arguments against the move are not backed by disambiguation guidelines. If there is any further need for disambiguation it can be proposed in a guideline-compliant fashion. signed, Rosguill talk 01:48, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OceanGate, Inc. → OceanGate – OceanGate currently redirects here and is unambiguous. Only one other Oceangate: Ocean Gate, New Jersey. Oceangate Tower redirects to a tower in Wales for reasons I don't understand. We should avoid legal status suffixes per WP:NCCORP. Schierbecker (talk) 00:57, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose : According to the disambiguation page, there are already 5 other U.S. properties with the name “Ocean Gate.” I think keeping the “Inc.” is what should be done. Wikentromere (talk) 17:13, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We should keep the inc otherwise it may be confused with the other OceanGates your correct A Guy Learning and Knowing (talk) 19:47, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I count three other American properties. Where did you get five? Schierbecker (talk) 21:33, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Within the disambiguation page, all other articles are slight variations (ex: Ocean Gate), and are often schools or other organisations. No current article about a similar company could reasonably be confused with this one. Double Plus Ungood (talk) 20:09, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Ocean gate school
    2. Ocean Gate District
    3. Ocean Gate (this ocean gate that we are discussisng about)
    4. Ocean gate villas
    there are so many more too
    but those arent in the disambiguation page (not all of them) so even within or not within the disambiguation page we should keep the inc A Guy Learning and Knowing (talk) 00:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is a good reason Oceangate Villas is not listed there: It is not notable. Disambiguation pages are not exhaustive. Schierbecker (talk) 00:44, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support and speedy close if possible. Killuminator (talk) 01:05, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Lawsuit over safety

There needs to be a section about the 2018 lawsuit and counterlawsuit filed by a former employee who claims he was fired. Per the lawsuit the vessel was not built to dive to the depths needed to see Titanic. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/titanic-submarine-oceangate-hull-safety-lawsuit/ https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/oceangate-company-behind-missing-titanic-tourist-sub-once-subject-lawsuit-safety-complaints 2604:2D80:A48F:300:F462:B2B3:3612:5DDA (talk) 01:04, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

the info was given recently, we have no idea what the court case was about or anything. we just know they were sued and then the court case was settled outside of court with the guy. That should not be in itself a article. If you add it to the Ocean gate website it would be unnessary because again not enough info about this. We should wait, if we get more info then we should include it. A Guy Learning and Knowing (talk) 00:29, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorr i mistakened your addition to saying for a new article please ignore my above comment lol my bad A Guy Learning and Knowing (talk) 00:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

15 million people went underwater??

Don't like to add to the the current kerfuffle, but Rush stated a few years ago (in the corporate mission section) that 15 million people went underwater in the last 35 years. A very puzzling statement, how does he define underwater, and I can't envision 15 million people in submersibles in that time frame. Can someone smarter/moreintheloop than I look into this? Maybe we should just put a (sic) after it for now because we don'tbelieve/don'tunderstand ?? Dr.gregory.retzlaff (talk) 03:14, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would actually believe it. Atlantis Submarines carry 40–60 passengers, make 30 trips a week, and there are (or have been) nine of them. If filled to capacity on every trip that's 700,000 passengers per year, or 25 million in 35 years. My assumptions are generous, but I think 15 million is possible. GA-RT-22 (talk) 14:38, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And by the way, the quote is pretty misleading. Going down 12,000 feet is way more dangerous than going down 100 feet. The risks are not at all comparable and Rush is being deceptive when he implies that they are. GA-RT-22 (talk) 14:41, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, I did not know that Atlantis submarines existed. Thanks GA-RT, and I fully agree 100 ft and 12,000 feet are totally different. I guess we have to leave the misleading statement, unless someone wants to slip in a caveat or explanation. I don't feel qualified to do that, being quite new. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr.gregory.retzlaff (talk • contribs) 16:12, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the Atlantis sub WP article would fit under the related articles section? LaggyMcStab (talk) 04:58, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would treat anything Rush says with a high degree of scepticism. I think he may be a master at making vague, unverifiable, open-ended statements. In his interview with David Pogue of CBS there was this exchange:
David Pogue (CBS reporter) "are you making money on this operation?"
Stockton Rush [sighs] "ah, no [laughs awkwardly],so...not yet. People might say 'that's a lot of money, $250,000', erm, but we went through over a million dollars of gas."
The BBC picked this up and reported that a single journey to the Titanic wreck used a million dollars worth of fuel. That's not what Rush said, but I think he intended to imply it.
I emailed BBC to point out it wasn't what Rush said, and the idea of using 1,600tons of fuel to make a round trip of under 800 miles was ludicrous. BBC subsequently removed the claim, although other mirror sites still make the silly claim.
As to 15 million people going underwater in the last 35 years? It's a statement that clearly needs qualified. Does he include scuba divers? Snorkelers? Toddlers during bath time? I think Rush is something of a showman who likes to exaggerate to pull people into his thrall. Anyone prepared to pay a quarter of a million to go three miles under the Atlantic in a Heath-Robinson sub (without any apparent safety contingencies) must be in the man's thrall. 2A00:23EE:2658:8721:1C76:BBE4:82F1:A241 (talk) 19:28, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Corporate Mission

I'm a novice here, but I'm wondering about the inclusion of the corporate mission, let alone at as a section as presented. Flipping through other corporation articles including the two referenced in the section itself, Blue Origin and SpaceX, neither have a corporate mission section and instead lead off with a section devoted to History. Likewise for other corporations like Alphabet Inc. and appears consistent for smaller corporations such as Onewheel, Linktree, and M5 Industries.2001:410:E000:902:21D8:6A5:F3FC:7F68 (talk) 20:07, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking the same thing. I have renamed the section to "History" and put it in chronological order. It should be filled out with more of what has actually happened and less of what they intend to do. GA-RT-22 (talk) 20:44, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support above aswell but the misson doesnt need to be its own section it can be in the blurb of important facts about the company on te right side A Guy Learning and Knowing (talk) 00:41, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 June 2023

I would like to add that the passengers that were on the Titan submarine are officially out of oxygen as of 7:10 a.m. ET which would imply that the passengers are unfortunately deceased. Sayed macari (talk) 14:24, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: We need to wait for reliable sources to make that call. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 14:27, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Splitting proposal

I propose that Titan section be split into Titan (submersible). 90.254.6.237 (talk) 16:13, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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