Jump to content

Talk:Japanese addressing system

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the current revision of this page, as edited by Cewbot (talk | contribs) at 04:03, 4 February 2024 (Maintain {{WPBS}} and vital articles: 2 WikiProject templates. Create {{WPBS}}. Keep majority rating "C" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 2 same ratings as {{WPBS}} in {{WikiProject Japan}}, {{WikiProject Philately}}. Remove 1 deprecated parameter: b1.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this version.

(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Diagram to show the various addressing levels

[edit]

Hi there-

May we have a diagram, that one might get an idea of the various levels of the Japanese mail system without the prose? Something like this:

I have put together a rough chart in wiki table format, so that those discussing alterations can change the diagram directly rather than upload an image. The chart should feature the kanji too. I don't know why there are currently two "chou" boxes, and am assuming that they have different kanji. This chart is wrong, and there are discussions below about what the table ought to contain.

I don't know what is going on with the "to" and "mura" cells- they ought to be just one row high, but given that the table is wrong, this doesn't matter right now.

ken gun mura chou -
dou chou
aza
shi ooaza
fu machi
ku choume banchi ban kou
to

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.47.214.214 (talk) 01:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Or even better, a directed graph showing all the possible combinations, from the roots to the leaves.

I can help with the diagram, but I need expert direction. Thanks. Hopefully acceptable username (talk) 18:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I started working on a diagram. It's more complicated than I had expected at first, though. LeeWilson (talk) 06:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, some of your groupings are a little off... for example, gun is a level above shi and ku is a level below it. I'll post my diagram a little later, when it is finished. LeeWilson (talk) 06:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, thanks. I was under no illusion that my diagram was correct; this is the first time I read about this topic. Cheers. Hopefully acceptable username (talk) 07:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know this is not perfect. But I'm sure it's more accurate.
  1. To, Dou, Fu, and Ken. 都道府県
  2. Shi, Ku (special wards in Tokyo), Cho, and Son. 市区町村. Sometimes Gun is witten before Cho or Son to identify the area.
  3. Ku (of big cities)
  4. Machi, Aza, Ooaza etc.
  5. Choume or numbers
  6. Banchi and Ban# gou# apt#
Gun is not a municipality; it's used only in addressing and for electorial districts.

Oda Mari (talk) 09:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Mari. I've rewritten the text in a way that I hope will help readers go through the steps one at a time.
Hopefully acceptable username: Possibly a diagram like Image:My_understanding.PNG would help but some organizational issues would have to be worked out. By the way, editors won't be able to change a diagram, so it'll be important to use Wikipedia Hepburn romanization if you draw a diagram. A few that would change would be dō, chō, chōme, and ōaza. The way I've rewritten the text, some of these would be unnecessary in the article on addresses, because they're already discussed in Prefectures of Japan. Repeating the same material here adds another level of complication. Fg2 (talk) 05:35, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The closest thing to a -gun in the States is a county. Many of them are disappearing, though, as all the municipalities in them merge into one larger city. The one where I used to live is now one big city. ···日本穣? Talk to Nihonjoe 05:52, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, and I usually think of a Japanese gun as a county. However, the US notion of a county varies dramatically from place to place. In the northeast, for example, counties may not disappear when cities form. The most populous city, NYC, has five counties inside it. Looking at the article County, I see a lot of variation outside the US also. Another difference is that in the US, county governments do things, but in Japan they don't. Counties may levy taxes, provide law-enforcement services, operate courts, register land transactions, and do other administrative functions. In Japan, the gun are just names of groups of towns and villages. So the analogy, while a good one, has limits that are worth keeping in mind. Fg2 (talk) 06:28, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Another significant difference- in the US, not all areas within counties are divided into towns and villages. Many counties have extensive regions of "unincorporated" land, not part of any city, town, or village. Most states are completely subdivided into counties (all area in a state is in one and only one county), but not all area within a county is in a city, town, or village. As villages, towns, or cities expand, they annex unincorporated (generally adjacent) land within the county. -- Rick Block (talk) 06:41, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said, the closest thing is a county. There's not really anything else to compare it to. Yes, there are differences, but there are differences between a county in the US and a county in Ireland or the UK, too. However, the comparison is there. Except for bizarre cases like NYC (which is more similar to Tokyo-to than anything else), counties do not occur within cities or other municipalities, but rather the other way around. The same is true for -gun. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


  • Advice from native Japanese, and native speaker

(Indent initialized) There are some incorrect ot inaccurate points, at least correct: (chōme 丁目), the city block (banchi 番地) and finally the house number (ban 番). Chōme and banchi numbers are usually assigned by order, which is Chome-banchi-gou.


Most Japanese prefer to write the way you suggested. But 日本郵政 says to write the way in the article. Please see these. [1], [2] and [3]. Oda Mari (talk) 05:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Oda Mari-san. You are correct to some extent. The Japanese addressing system is a very confusing one and may or may not be a GOOD system or confusing system even for Japanese if they want to say it clearly. I have never thought of a diagram-like scheme for it. There are differences between a city area and rural area, and other factors as well. Let me review the system (?), and I will respond to these chats as soon as I can.--Namazu-tron (talk) 07:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Namazu-tron. The diagram is not my idea. The article was terrible when I saw it. Recent editors did not understand the difference between the special wards of Tokyo and other big cities' wards, nor between machi as a town like 東京都大島町 and machi in an area name like 千代田区麹町. So, I asked Fg2 and he/she made it better and more accurate. I myself wonder if it could be called a system. BTW, I'm a native Japanese too. Oda Mari (talk) 07:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Indent revert) Oda Mari-san (o-damari, Oooops), I am preparing a response now. Addressing is based on the law, but it seems complicated and may not be a well organized "system". Wait wait.--Namazu-tron (talk) 23:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Choume-Banchi-Gou addressing scheme

[edit]
  • The basic or principal addressing system is banchi 番地, which numbers the plot of earth, land, or ground 地面.

If a land area is too wide to be represented by banchi, Gou号is added as a postal fix for further division.

  • This Banchi番地 then Gou 号 scheme is applied to almost all of Japan, from cities to rural areas, in villages, and sometimes to farming fields and wooded mountain areas where nobody lives.

The example of “2Banchi 3Gou” “2番地3号” is a formal style of address for any location.

The land is numbered as such and registered in each local office of the Ministry of Justice (Japan) as personal property or assets, with each owing and paying tax.

The correct address representation is “2番地3号”, but is mostly shortened to "2ban 3Gou=2番3号" by skipping Chi=地.

Numbers

[edit]
  • Generally Banchi is numbered from 1 to 9999, with up to 4 digits if the Banchi-only method is used.

However, Banchi numbering with many digits is confusing, may not be easy to identify, or may lead to errors in writing and speaking.

  • If a Town is wide and not amenable to representation by Banchi and Gou, Y番地X号 and　Choume丁目 prefixes are employed.

Now, the main points on the Choume-Banchi-Gou X丁目Y番地Z号 scheme. In the very formal style, X for 丁目should be a Kanji number, 一,二,三,四,五,六 and so on. In reality, using Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3...) like 3丁目 is the simplified style.

Both Y for Banchi=番地 and Z for Gou=号, using Arabic numerals, is a formal or correct representation.

Chome=丁目 is a part of the town in a city area and still refers to the district of the town itself; “丁目” is not “numbered land space”, so to use Kanji numbers like 一丁目, 二丁目,三丁目,四丁目 is correct and formal (and looks and sounds more dignified than imported Arabic numerals).

Again, 番地-号 is the numbering of land space, and may use Arabic numerals because it just uses one number, or is numbered in sequence.

  • Generally, both YY番地 and ZZ号 are from 1 to 99, up to 99 with two digits

Correct/formal/ simplified representation

[edit]
  • In addresses, Choume-Ban (Banchi)-Gou(丁目-番地-号 or 丁目-番-号) scheme

Style 1: 一丁目2番(番地)3号 is correct or formal. See article section “Address order”

〒100-8799 東京都千代田区丸の内二丁目7番2号東京中央郵便局

Style 2: 東京都千代田区丸の内2丁目7番2号 is simplified, because X is Arabic.

Style 3: 東京都千代田区丸の内2-7-2 is a very simplified style.

  • Refer to example in web site:
  • Toyota: English address representation: Style 3:
Head Office　1 Toyota-Cho, Toyota City, Aichi Prefecture 471-8571, Japan Phone: (0565)28-2121
Tokyo Head Office　1-4-18 Koraku, Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo 112-8701, Japan Phone: (03)3817-7111
Nagoya Office　4-7-1 Meieki, Nakamura-ku, Nagoya City, Aichi Prefecture 450-8711, Japan Phone: (052)552-2111

[6],[7]

  • Sony: Style 3 for both English and Japanese. [8],[9]
  • Even Prime Minister Kantei uses style 3, which is very much simplified.
[10][11]
  • Japan Post: [12] formal style 1 in Japanese. Head office: 1-3-2 Kasumigaseki, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100-8798. In Style 3, in English. [13]
  • Mitsubishi Corp.: Style 1 in Japanese [14]. Formal in Japanese representation.
  • Sumitomo: Style 1 in English. [15]
  • As Oda Mari-san pointed out, Japan Post asks users to fill in the mailing slip in the style of “Y-Z, Town name, Xchoume”, but their address representation is simplified style 3 in English; this somewhat “contradicts oneself”, doesn’t it?　

“X丁目-Y番-Z号” in English.

"Y-Z ,Town name, XChume " vs "X-Y-Z"

[edit]

“X-Y-Z ” is large area to small, and fits Japanese thinking because XYZ matches the order in Japanese language representation.

Y-Z, Town mane X-Choume

[edit]
  • Now, about “Y-Z ,Town name, XChume“, I really do not know the reason why this style is became common and its timing for Address resentation in English. May be some “Gaijin=Person from overseas in later Edo period made his name card. But “Y-Z ,Town name, XChume“ style is believed fit to Gaijin’s thinking or matches than X-Y-Z style.

Today as you see web site above, many people and even world-class business enterprises prefer to or without well thought in depth, X-Y-Z style is employed.

Hi, Namazu-tron. Why don't you add the actual popular way of addressing to the article? I believe your edit will make the article better. In another word, I know you won't put in inaccurate information because you are a Japanese and know the system well. Oda Mari (talk) 04:59, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Oda Mari-san. Oh, I do not know well about too much complicated Japanese addressing system. I even wonder it can be called SYSTEM. Someone created this article and improved by many user, but define as system is very tough job. it may be a great research. See 都道府県市区町村 web site various pages and vast discussions, [19] (which top page is only allowed to link without permission or pre-consult.) In this site, even native Japanese talks each other on Japanese addressing system, that very complicated and may not be a integrated rule or style. If some user, who participate on this Wikipedia article and talks, to edit this article more , I can correct part by part. I rather would like to have time for edit other article in Japanese and/or English edition. Frankly I edit article itself is tough job in terms of writing in English and know addressing system before edit. Anyway, I will revert as I said as above.--Namazu-tron 06:20, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Namazu-tron. It's too complicated and too tough for me to improve. Maybe it would be better to think about the article name change. If there's some appropriate word for 'system'. But the current article is better than before and basically accurate. So I'm rather be satisfied. Oda Mari (talk) 05:44, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Syntax diagram

[edit]
My current understanding

Hello again. Thanks for the improvements, I think this is now a bit clearer. However, I am still confused. This is my current mental map, generated by simply reading the descriptions of the various parts. I'm pretty sure it's still wrong, could you please fix it?

Basically, what I'd like to achieve is a grammar of a well-formed Japanese address, for example in the form of a Syntax diagram. Thanks.

Hopefully acceptable username 23:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It appears to be correct, but maybe not complete. Some things to discuss: the arrow from To to Ku points to a tokubetsu-ku. The arrow from Shi to Ku points to an ordinary ku. Although they are both called ku in addresses, the syntax diagram might distinguish them by putting one in blue and the other in black, explaining in a caption that the blue is a tokubetsu-ku and the black is an ordinary ku (for example). But maybe that adds extra complication to something that's already complicated. If so, there's no need to add the distinction.
Also, as I wrote before, the romanization is not acceptable in the English Wikipedia: "A few that would change would be dō, chō, chōme, and ōaza." We can add to that list "gō." Wikipedia does not write "dou," "chou," "choume," "ooaza," or "gou."
Next, shi should have an arrow pointing to chō in addition to the one pointing to ku. Some cities are divided into ku and others into chō or machi. Also, ku (specifically tokubetsu-ku) should have an arrow pointing to chō. An address like "Tokyo-to Chūō-ku Ginza" is an example of this. I hope these arrows will make it complete.
These diagrams can help a select few people, but it's not clear how many will be helped by them. In drawing them you come to a fuller understanding of the structure. But I believe most people will give up trying to understand them. I'm not convinced they're helpful enough to include in articles. Fg2 07:00, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Hopefully acceptable username. Rewrite your mental map. It's so complicated that I post about only Tokyo this time. Islands do not have Gun. As for Tokyo-to, there are 5 types of addressing.

  1. Tokyo-to, X-ward, area-name and Chome, address number...
  2. Tokyo-to, X-Shi/city, area-name and Chome, address number...
  3. Tokyo-to, X-Gun/county, Y-Town or Y-Village, area-name, address number
  4. Tokyo-to, Y-Town or Y-Village, area-name and Chome, address number
  5. Tokyo-to, Y-Town or Y-Village, area- name

Examples;

  1. 東京都/tokyo, 千代田区/Chiyoda-ward, 丸の内二丁目/Marunouchi 2 Chome, 七番二号/7-2
  2. 東京都/tokyo, 立川市/Tachikawa-shi, 錦町三丁目/Nishikicho 3 Chome, 二番二十六号/2-26
  3. Tokyo-to, 西多摩郡/Nishitama-gun, 奥多摩町/Okutama-machi/town, 氷川/Hikawa 215-6
  4. Tokyo-to, 大島町/Oshima-machi/town, 元町一丁目/Moto-machi 1 chome, 一番十四号/1-14
  5. Tokyo-to, 小笠原村Ogasawara-mura/village, 父島字奥村/Chichi-jima Aza-okumura. (No number)

Sorry if I made mistakes. Oda Mari (talk) 07:08, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, thanks for your feedback. I will incorporate your comments in the diagram.
Don't mind the romanization for now, the final version will include kanji and maybe also English. The software I used for this quick-and-dirty draft does not support non-English characters. By the way, is there a collaborative tool online that we can use, so we all can move objects around, add arrows etc?
I accept that the diagram is complicated, but that is not an arbitrary consequence of my insanity, rather it's a consequence of the subject matter being complicated. Indeed, from these last comments it seems to me that quite a lot of this complexity has not yet been captured in the article. You can see this exercise as a reality check, given that I'm trying to understand this system knowing nothing about it.
I think the article would greatly benefit from a diagram like this (more polished, of course!). It would convey, at a glance, that the system is complex, what the various levels are and how the address parts can and cannot be combined together. All this without reading the proverbial 1000 words in the article. Please let me know now if you would oppose the introduction of a diagram in the article. Thanks. 83.67.217.254 11:31, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese addressing diagram/Scheme

[edit]
Japanese address system Scheme (Draft)

Hi, you all. Some are in hurry to figure out what Japanese tangled addressing system is or to be. I now up load and show you the DRAFT of my written scheme ONLY in hurry. It need to describe each level 1 to 15 and numbered arrows with explanation and example. Again, wait. it is not easy job to collect actual information or citation.--Namazu-tron 19:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Namazu-tron, The diagram is getting very complete. Oda Mari noted, though, that there should be an arrow from To to Machi and an arrow from To to Mura (for the islands -- they do not have gun). Also, I don't think there is a reason to write both "city" and "city designated by government ordinance." It only adds confusion to the diagram. The diagram is already confusing -- not because people are making it confusing, but as already said, because the system is confusing! If it can be called a system at all. Best regards, Fg2 20:28, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well done, thank you! Just a quick note: the islands' exception may be better represented as a footnote in the caption or something, like "gun(*)" -> "(*)Islands do not have this intermediate gun level". I don't think it's wise to represent all exceptions in this general diagram, but it definitely looks like we need to add this island exception to the "Special cases" section. If needed, we can have special diagrams for each of those special cases. Sorry, I can't think straight right now, but we're definitely getting somewhere. Thanks! 83.67.217.254 22:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, another thing: I would like if it's not too difficult to keep the municipality types in one row and in the "Japanese" order, like in my diagram (shi ku chō son). We can then have a graphical cross-section explaining that those are the municipality types, and the same can be done for the prefecture types. Cheers. 83.67.217.254 22:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed link #23. Can we really have two 村 in a row? Amazing... This is by the way another thing that we don't seem to say in the article. 83.67.217.254 07:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am struggling or striving in reviewing and refining the system/scheme. give me 1-2 weeks.　Not easy one, anyway actually.--Namazu-tron (talk) 00:15, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Japan addressing system/ Scheme general discussion as of 2007, Dec 16

[edit]
Japan addressing scheme ver2 07 Dec 21
  • refer to ja:Category:行政区画の単位, Prefectures of Japan, and municipality.
  • address search 住所一覧検索 is, to locate up to LVL-12 Gō residential building/house number, very useful site, but style is mostly X-Y-Z simplified one by skipping letter丁目,番&号.
  • Municipality may not be so important to addressing as the system, however naming follow to municipality unit is some tendency and defined by bylaw any time, especially 町&村merger and acquisition to big city timing. Yes, (shichō市長, kuchō区長, chōchō町長, sonchō村長) are municipal mayor and each unit has parliament and does set bylaw.
  • Municipal unit are; List of governors of Japan in LVL-3, Special wards of Tokyo & two types of Cities, ordinal cities and City designated by government ordinance in LVL-4. Core city and ordinal "city" under line 3-3 LVL-4 is the same in terms of addressing system, and shown two types of cities is the "City" in a diagram.
  • Gun is a frame of division, but no municipality and always follows LVL-7 Machi町or Mura村 which has municipality.
  • Some Ku区in some city in LVL-5 may be much population and area size than Special wards of Tokyo though .
  • Gun郡 Districts of Japan is first appeared at time of Ritsuryō. I have no idea now, about Gun had municipality before World War II. Surname Gunji郡司 is refer to municipal officer or judge from Gun that means Gun had municipal function in past probably.

Ōaza, Aza and Koaza

[edit]
  • Also see "Mergers discussion of prefectures of Japan" ja:日本の道州制論議 or ja:日本の市町村の廃置分合#市町村合併の歴史 that mentioning in 1888 & 1889, number of 町村decreased 1/5 from 71,314 to 15,820, then about in 1923 further decrease approx. 500, then ja:日本の市町村の廃置分合#昭和の大合併 and ja:日本の市町村の廃置分合#平成の大合併 drastically change addressing system too.
    • Add on 2008, Jan., 1: The news according to Sankei Shimbun news web site(日本語）, number of municipal 市町村 is 1797 as of 2008, Jan. 1. and it will further decrease to 1788 by 2008, July 1. Approx 25% of 1252市町村, that had not merged at timing of 平成の大合併(financial support by governmenthad been expired), are under discussion for merging, therefore further big mergeｒ(大合併) is expected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Namazu-tron (talk • contribs) 05:08, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • My picture “Japanese address system Scheme (Draft)” in previous section is written under thinking of right after昭和の大合併 that I experienced in my young boy time frame.
  • In 1999 to 2006, Heisei Big merge平成の大合併 many 町＆村 were dismissed, and further 2nd平成の大合併is under planning and also State (country subdivision) ja:日本の道州制論議 discussion is emerging to divide into 9, 10 or 13 states from 47 prefectures.
  • If these plan and emerging trend is concerned, the addressing system shall be changed more complicated one and it should be up date time by time.
  • Again, addressing system is set by bylaw of each municipal unit, that reflect long long history in each region and peoples nostalgic thought and heritage mind.
  • To divide having 丁目 seems contemporary scheme and some time not welcomed by people living there due to considered/deem to separate community arena, by people who concerns history and its heritage, but young generation likes metropolitan like address representation
  • From LVL-8 to LVL-10 is very ambiguity definition, I believe, as line 7-0, 7-2, 7-4, 8-1, 8-2, 8-3, 9-2, 9-3 or 10-1 to LVL-11 banchi番地.
  • In 1889 Meiji period, Ōaza大字、Aza字 and Koaza小字 system set based on Mura村 system in Edo period and still many location in over all Japan have proceeding these division not only rural area but also in some cities.
  • If particular address has one or two LVLs between LVL-8 to LVL-10, it can be said appropriately (a) LVL-8 come first then LVL-10 because LVL should be down from large area to small area, but contrary (b) to think in backward from LVL-11, LVL-10 machi 町is suitable area size to have Banchi番地 assignment then further backward to LVL-9 Machi 町 on size without LVL-8 Ōaza大字. Like (a) or (b) understanding, Machi & Mura regardless proceeding Ōaza, Aza or Koaza or not proceeding these, two LVLs in three of LVL-8 to LVL-10 still does exhibit ambiguity of which Machi or Mura LVL belong to which LVL.
  • Not in addressing system, however in administrative maneuvering by municipality unit, Oaza 大字 division or district area is still apply in most cases, depends on each unit though. Also 支庁 division, which is much more than wider than Oaza, is used, not addressing system but administrative districts, see Subprefecture#Japan system in Hokkaidō and/or 東京都大島支庁

LVL-11 & LVL-12, Banchi & Gō

[edit]
  • LVL-9 Chome丁目 should be Kanji Numeral by law, and Chome is considered to correspond a Machi to the same level in LVL-9.
  • Banchi is numerals up to 4 digits in general indicates small machi or block or Mura and it is called 街区符号.
  • 街区符号(gaukufugō) literally means “town division code”. The single "街" also pronounce “machi”, but usually smaller than machi町.
  • ja:ウォール街 or ja:ウォールストリート,Wall Street, we Japanese call there “Wall Street街”、not to call there“Wall Street町”, because of small area size and the place is unique functional area within Machi 町.
  • Either machi町 or 街 letter is well used interchangeably in case by case for place by place.
  • Banchi番地 is in small machi, twon or block level residential sequential number on land or ground.
  • Another term Chiban地番”is the “land number” for real estate stand point and not necessarily to follow 住居表示に関する法律 and ja:住居表示に関する法律. Most land location Chiban地番 still applied as with old fashion to addressing for residence.
  • LVL-9 is called “Machi-Ku街区” division, but letter 街 is used instead of 町as“街区”. ( Here　町＆街 is used interchangeably and very much ambiguity even for Japanese (?).
  • LVL-11 is called Banchi番地, Residential sequence number and its coding or signing, as 街区符号(literary town division code).
  • LVL-12 is personal resident sequence number (house) , Gō号, generally two digits is enough for houses in a block size. If number of houses is too less/small and also distance from one house to neighboring houses is relatively far in rural area, then Koaza小字 of LVL-10 may apply ahead in LVL-11.
  • Gō号 number increments with each house entrance is assigned approx. 10-15 meter distance with facing to the road, and Gō号 number optionally have “-n” suffix if entrance of more than two house are within 10-15 meters.
  • Reference web site are; [20] & Asahikawa, Hokkaidō and [21] Hiroshima city for Gō with suffix(枝番).
  • Address for the case of single house is ended LVL-12 then mail addressing ends with attention name as LVL-13.
  • In case of apartment type big condominium case, LVL-14 to LVL-16 is firmly assigned by bylaw. Example like X丁目yyyy番地zzGō-A building-9th Floor –Room 05, is represented to X-yyyy-zz-A-905 in simplified form. Depends on each bylaw in each municipal unit, but in fact, LVL-14 is skipped because of owner of apartment or condominium may change the name of apartment some time, especially when owner changed. Skipping LVL-14 or indicate in “( ) parenthesis” is much safe for long term and may not in register address, but having Apt name with “( ) parenthesis” may help people (mail-man or visitor) to locate specific residential location. Up to LVL-16 is register address as residential citizen. Address up to LVL-16 is also used to identify citizen for ja:選挙人名簿 suffrage directory and taxation for PP&E and residence. Homelessness does not have the registered address all over the world today fortunately or unfortunately with no tax except consumption tax.

Discussion with examples/samples

[edit]

Ku

[edit]

LVL-9

[edit]
  • Mostly LVL-9 Chome丁目 and【Machi町/Mura村w/ or w/o proceeding Aza字】are much larger area than ja:町内会ja:自治会 town community size in populated area. In rural area, single unit of LVL-10 Mura is large enough for single local community unit, so that several numbers of 自治会(s) forms in a LVL-10 big Machi and/or Mura
  • Cho町and Son村 is eliminated in LVL-6 to LVL-10 from my previous draft scheme. It is just the difference of pronounce, the meaning or position is the same on Machi and Cho, and Mura and Son.


Example, Kabukichō, Tokyo and [[22]] which describes to pronounce Machi or Chō in Tokyo. In pronounce, all LVL(s) from LVL-6 to LVL-10 Machi or Chou pronounce is applied, by on'yomi (音読み)= the Sino-Japanese or Kanji#Kun'yomi (Japanese reading)=kun'yomi (訓読み) which ever comfortable in pronunciation and sound hearing. This two way of pronounce apply not only Chō/Machi Mura/Son, but also most Japanese kanji reading in its combination.

LVL-5

[edit]

LVL-7 Island case

[edit]
  • LVL-7 Machi/Mura with line 3-5 is exampled 大島町役場 ja:大島町 100-0101 東京都東京都大島町元町1丁目1番14号 as you pointed out and Mura case is also conceivable scheme, by skipping Gun (by line 3-3) and it seems only apply in island zone.
  • Number of island in Japan, there are 6852 islands in Japan and much population there in 400 islands. But to have line (3-5) like大島町 of Island, 大島is quite un-usual case I guess too, and to put in footnotes may be appropriate.

Municipal Machi and Mura

[edit]
  • LVL-7 municipal unit of Machi or Mura should be under Gun (through line 4-6 & 4-7) generally.
  • Dotted line 4-4, Mura under City may not be exist as far as I understand now (Line 4-3 & 4-4 deleted).

Gun in island

[edit]

LVL-9

[edit]
  • LVL-9, Choume丁目、Aza字、Machi町、Mura村 are the still category of larger area of town and may covers several number of community towns even in rural area

Exceptional postal zip code

[edit]

LVL-8 to LVL-10

[edit]
  • LVL-8 Oaza大字 is applied unifying several number of Aza字. When several number of Aza字is too wide area, then Oaza大字 is applied to identify certain district. Note that Oaza(big-Aza), Aza, and Koaz(small-Aza) are in ordering as leveling schematic indicates.
  • LVL-10 Koaza小字 is used in after Aza which is still wide, then divide into Koaza.
  • LVL-9 Aza, LVL-8 Oaza, LVL-10 Koaza system enacted in 1873 Meiji period. Aza is heritage from Mura from 16-17th century and named to Aza in 1989. Seeja:日本の市町村の廃置分合City-Chō-Mura renaming and organized history.

LVL-8 to LVL-12

[edit]
  • The flat area of the land of Japan is not so wide and many valleys, but valley is not huge like Shenandoah Valley which may impressing to most Japanese, and Arable Land 11% is small number. It is generally said that mountain area is 80% of Japan.
  • Mura had been divided or isolated by mountain and/or river geographically, so that small sized Mura had been scattered since Jōmon period. Also even in flat area, people shared firming or cultivating land by living in scattered fashion with small number of families consists Mura(s). Some Mura grows up to Machi by population increase. Banchi番地 or Ban番 had been assigned to each land in Meiji Period to charge owing tax of the land with cash money rather than tax with cropped rice.
  • LVL-9 Choume丁目 and LVL-8 Town (s) namely 【Machi町 through Ku区】to LVL-10 【Machi/Mura (Koaza)】 are the community unit to cultivate and firm the land for rice with sharing water resource and labor.
  • LVL-12 Gō is also assigned in Meiji period as sub division of Aza from Mura, and today, Gō is house location/ residential number after Japanese is registered as citizen in Meiji period.
  • Note that Chome丁目-Banchi番地-Gō号 are skipped and represented as simply X-Y-Z number with hyphen in most cases today.
  • Reference questionnaire how addressing is determed: 「○丁目△番□号」

Addressing Example, mostly exceptional case

[edit]

Personal HP. Net play voting; How you write address X-Y-Z, Gō号 is house location number

Ku in LVL-8

[edit]

LVL-5 then jump to LVL-11 LVL-9

[edit]

No Banchi number even in central area of big city

[edit]

Examples

[edit]
  • Example shows heading with あof Gojūon first letter, so that example here are not special, it deems typical case for residential address location with any letter heading.
    • #2. 相野（あいの）駅、所在地:兵庫県三田市下相野字五反田３３１番地１、線区:JR宝塚線, Line 4-3 LVL-7 4-5 LVL-8 Skip Oaza下相野, Line 7-2 8-3 then Aza五反田 then Banchi & Gō by line 9-2, city Sanda, Hyōgowith Oaza, Aza, Koza scheme which is considered to be applied not to cities, but still apply in rural area of some cities in country site.
    • #11 赤碕（あかさき）駅、所在地:鳥取県東伯郡琴浦町大字赤碕字坂ノ前８４９番地－２、線区:山陰線, Gun東伯郡, line 4-3 4-6 to Machi琴浦町, Line 7-1 to Oaza赤碕, Line 8-3 to Aza坂ノ前, Line 9-2 to Banchi, No Koaza LVL-10 case.
[edit]
    • #14 英賀保（あがほ）駅、所在地:兵庫県姫路市飾磨区山崎１３２番、線区:山陽線、again, Ku in Himeji, Hyōgo, line 4-5 to Ku飾磨区, deems Machi山崎 in LVL -10 -9 by line 8-1 8-3 then directly follows LVL-11 Banchi, deems skipping LVL -9 -10 Koaza.
    • #13. 明塚（あかつか）駅、所在地:島根県邑智郡美郷(みさと)町明塚８４番地、線区:三江線、Gun邑智郡in LVL4, then line 4-6 municipal Machi美郷(みさと)町 in LVL-7, then line 7-2 Machi明塚 LVL-9, then line 9-2 to Banchi, typical fashion without proceeding Oaza & Koaza in Gun in rural area, today.
    • #6. 阿川（あがわ）駅、所在地:山口県下関市豊北町阿川字水取３６５３－３、線区:山陰線、City下関市, Line 4-5 to Machi豊北町阿川 of LVL-8, line 8-3 to Machi(or Aza)水取 of LVL-9 without prefix Oaza, then line 9-2 to banchi, then line 11-2 Gō.Shimonoseki, Yamaguchi This LVL-8 "豊北町阿川" is considered further sub-divided into two LVL, LVL-8.0豊北町 and LVL-8.1阿川. I am guessing or it seems that when 豊北町 was municipality town and had 阿川 as Oaza, it was well suite in size range having Oaza in Municipal town, but after merger to 下関市, 豊北町阿川 is single LVL-8 by bylaw, but actualy or reality is LVL8.0 & 8.1 of histrical division of time of Gun reflecting.
    • #8 青野山（あおのやま）駅, 所在地:島根県鹿足郡津和野町直地(ただち), 線区:山口線, Kanoashi District, Shimane, no Banchi number case, but not represent as 無番, it streightly ends with LVL-9 without saying about LVL-11 nor 無番 . #9 is same too. Also you can see variaety of addressing even on the first page of serach web site. Also of #45. 油田（あぶらでん）駅, 所在地:富山県砺波市三郎丸、線区:城端線 Tonami, Toyama
    • #17 & #18 is under line 7-0 LVL-9 丁目番地号 common scheme in most cities
[edit]
    • #37 安栖里（あせり）駅、所在地:京都府船井郡京丹波町安栖里萩尾２１番地２、線区:山陰線、long Machi name “安栖里萩尾” seems generally, my personal feeling though, Oaza of 安栖里 and Aza of 萩尾, or Aza of 安栖里 and Koaza of 萩尾 without actually having Oaza, Aza and Koaza proceedings. But think LVL-8.0=安栖里 & LVL8.1=萩尾 is more natural as explained in #6. 阿川（あがわ）駅 above.
[edit]

Tentative finish

[edit]

Now, my description has been getting much longer, so that tentatively finish and all you can check with variety of representation on web site JRおでかけネットJR excursion Net Thank you, you all.--Namazu-tron (talk) 01:36, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Line 4-3 and 4-4 should be deleted, because municipal machi and mura under municipal city, this is contradiction.--Namazu-tron (talk) 17:53, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I now reviewed and believe correct and accurate. You can see many many exceptional cases at JRおでかけネットJR excursion Net 駅name Index with letter あ through わ. --Namazu-tron (talk) 18:58, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Sorry that I am hardware man and it seems edit by addressing scheme by jargon SVG format and edit by Inkscape is not realistic and seems tough work. I rather prefer enjoy edit articles with text than by jargon software languages.--Namazu-tron (talk) 18:58, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response

[edit]

Thank you for your hard work Namazu-tron, this is an absolutely impressive and well referenced piece of source-based research.

I don't have the time and skills to go through your report in full, but I would suggest the following

  • Diagram or not, we should start integrating these referenced facts into the article. I am more and more convinced that the article as it stands is inaccurate and incomplete. If possible we should give the casual reader a good high-level view towards the top of the article and then go into the fine-grained details.
  • Let's port the diagram to a format that everybody can edit. This is absolutely critical, because otherwise the only decision that can be made about the image is whether to keep it or remove it. Since the image will never be perfect, someone will always be able to say that we should remove it for this or that reason. I did a quick research and it seems that the preferred format for these things is SVG, and the editor of choice Inkscape. This is explained here, together with other very interesting guidelines.
  • I have other comments/suggestions more specific to the diagram, but I think that before discussing any further we should have an editable version of it, in the true spirit of WP. In fact, I would be perfectly happy to include in the article an SVG version of this diagram as it stands, so everybody can start contributing their improvements, cosmetic or otherwise.

83.67.217.254 (talk) 11:31, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete new Picture

[edit]

Hi Dogcow-san, I dare to say that even picture is your apartment addressing, a person of your next room and owner ( even your self is owner) of your apartment may not welcome to have his very private address on Wikipedia. Also people live around 2-21-9 do not want it too. I would suggest you revert by your self, it is not welcomed Dec., 25th gift.--Namazu-tron (talk) 00:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? The fact that Kamimeguro 2-21-9 exists is public knowledge, and the picture shows a public sign, with no information about the resident of the address. Jpatokal (talk) 04:24, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing private about the address itself as anyone can see it if walking down the street where it exists. The image is perfectly acceptable. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:58, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you go there, you can say this particular addressing or plate is exposure to public, however, when this is on Wikipedia here, it is unnecessary or infringe of exposure to world via internet. If someone send postal mail or parcel contains undesirable materials with addressing up to LVL-12 without LVL-13 or with like "Dear Sir"of room#X in Japanese style, it may be delivered properly as sender intended.Relative to Information Privacy Laws and OECD regulations, Japan enacted "Private information protection law ja:個人情報保護法" in 2003 May, and applied since 2005 April. The picture here may or may not infringe this law. I hope anyone put this Japanese law into English by the way. This law is regards to protection or none-exposure of information which is identifiable personal matter or entity, by such as name or birth date and otheres(など、等） items. "Others" is very much ambiguity point and interpretation of law is different amongst people, municipal unit, even government ministry and each officers there. Due to various interpretation by people or organization that shrink exposure or on publication even necessary information, because of such confusion of Japanese society occurred, government or municipal unit is announcing "usage or interpretation or recommendation or guide line", but context of law itself remain as enacted and whether the law context is too much rigid is disputes in Japan.With such context on this discussion(talks) here, I strongly deny(...で無い!） having picture here. In some extent, matter is more important than copyright protection obeying.--Namazu-tron (talk) 12:03, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument is nonsensical. The law is about protecting personal (個人) information, that is, information about a person. It would definitely be a privacy violation to say that "Suzuki Taro lives at Kamimeguro 2-21-9". But it is not a privacy violation to say that "Kamimeguro 2-21-9 exists", because there is no person involved! Jpatokal (talk) 16:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally, you'd have to know the city or town where this particular Kamimeguro was. I've seen Kamimeguro in at least two, and there are likely more. So, it's not terribly explicit about a specific location, either. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese addressing system

[edit]

Article(s): Japanese addressing system

Request: Lighten area of sign on right as focus -- Chris (クリス) (talk) 15:36, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Graphist opinion: Lightening only on the right makes it look like two unrelated images side by side. To me lightening both sides and the original tend to look that way anyway. To show the address sign, I think one doesn't need much of the buildings, hence the cropped version. Sagredo⊙☿♀♁♂♃♄ 21:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"7-2, Marunouchi 2-Chome" format

[edit]

Hello,

Although perfectly understandable, I have never seen this format used before when writing romaji addresses in Japan, let alone recommended by Japan Post. If the "recommendation" is not properly sourced, I will remove it in favour of the much more common "2-7-2" format.

laug (talk) 08:03, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably worth noting as a variant (I have seen that a few times), but it's pretty much obsolete, and Japan Post's own About page uses the "normal" form: 1-3-2 Kasumigaseki, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100-8798. Jpatokal (talk) 09:41, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Marunouchi 2-Chome" is name of single town. Marunouchi 2-Chome and Marunouchi 1-Chome is different town, 2-Chome is not the area ID number of location of town. Since Japan learned English address representation method, say Meiji-era, location sequence number 7-2 proceed to town is considered authentic system to meet English way. Japanese traditional representation is prefecture, city, town and number within town, large area to small area, as you well know.

  • 7-2, Marunouchi 2-Chome......English authentic order..... small area to large area
  • Marunouchi 2-Chome 7-2 or 丸の内2丁目7-2......Japanese authentic order...... large area to small area

Nobody can not say exact timing, but right before or after 1964 Summer Olympics, many Japanese had opportunities to contact US/European community in business. Since then some Japanese have been feeling that there is confusion or possible miss leading between two authentic system. Now, still there is no rule how to represent Japanese address representation by English language or Romaji. It is solely depends on how each people think to avoid confusion in each system. Some conservatism people or company or organization still use "7-2, Marunouchi 2-Chome" order, because this order is considered authentic way when written in English or Romaji, keeping tradition since Meiji to time of Japan grew up as No1 or 2 or 3. Other people think represent order of "large to small area" of Japanese style, "Marunouchi 2-Chome 7-2" or "Marunouchi 2-7-2", to apply this order (sequence) in Romaji representation to avoid confusion or conflict among two authentic system. Think about that if you are in Tokyo and ask Japanese pedestrian the location by showing business card written in Romaji, order large to small area is much understandable without misleading by Japanese pedestrian. order of Marunouchi 2-7-2 is much convenient order for all Japanese, from pedestrian to mail post man. This order representation is not meeting English system, but forcing to native English speaker. The trend is employing "Marunouchi 2-Chome 7-2" or "Marunouchi 2-7-2", changing from "7-2, Marunouchi 2-Chome", say decade by decade.--Namazu-tron (talk) 15:05, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

unwikilike edits by 218.216.99.67

[edit]

"cleaning up lazy sloppy edits and unwikilike chart by persistent IP who says "see talk page" and then left nothing there" Dont you know how to use the history page of talk page? Define unwikilike. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Japanese_addressing_system&action=history 218.216.99.67 (talk) 09:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, I do know how to use the history page of the talkpage, and as I said, you left nothing here to explain why you keep pushing your sloppy, misspelled and misplaced edits. Unwikilike means "not wikilike", in this case slapping an unformatted chart at the top of a section, completely out of style with the rest of the article and with similar edits within the same article. I am not your English teacher and I am not your mom. If several editors have problems with your edits, they are bad edits. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 09:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
To OP. You wrote "There is no such combination of X番地Y号." in your edit summary. I'm afraid you were wrong. There is. See this Japan Post page. You can see "○番-○号 町名, ○丁目" on the page. Oda Mari (talk) 10:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think 218.216.99.67 is right. There are two systems for addressing in Japan: Jūkyo hyōji (ja:住居表示) and Chiban (ja:地番). In the case ofJūkyo hyōji, Gaiku fugō (街区符号) is represented as X番 not X番地. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:55, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oops. Sorry that I confused 番 and 番地. But I still don't support with the addition of the unformatted chart. Oda Mari (talk) 05:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

chō in city

[edit]

Sometime in this article ('Special cases' section)'s explanations and example , 'chō' is used ad a city's partition. But this is not defined and explained in article introduction ('Address parts' section). ('chō' is named just in in one sentence, meaning town: 'followed by the town (chō or machi, 町)'. It's not named as a city's partition.).

Is 'chō' bigger or small then 'chōme', when used ad a city's partition? --62.19.43.59 (talk) 01:57, 6 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Japanese addressing system. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:52, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Japanese addressing system. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:03, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of gun (郡)

[edit]

Hello. I suggest that translation of gun (郡) should be ‘county’ rather than ‘district’.

  1. The Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism uses this term. 地名等の英語表記規程 (p.5)
  2. The word ‘district’ is sometimes used for a translation of gaiku (街区) or chōchō (町丁), which is much smaller than gun (郡). This ambiguity can be confusing.—Chiro08 (talk) 13:39, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest arguing for this change at Districts of Japan. However, "country" strongly implies local government, which is not the case for gun. Jpatokal (talk) 23:59, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I have already discussed it at the page, but no one has replied.—Chiro08 (talk) 09:08, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Current "shichoson" that contain "no subdivisions"

[edit]

About this statement within the main article:

"However, exceptions abound, and the line between the schemes is often blurry as there are no clear delimiters for machi, aza, etc. There are also some municipalities like Ryūgasaki, Ibaraki which do not use any subdivisions."

If some of the current municipalities (or shichoson under the 1889 Municipal Merger Establishment/Enforcement Act/Law) don't contain local administrative subdivision units within municipal borders, like the Ryūgasaki town example, then how come at one point it contained these former villages alongside the former town in its initial (pre-1954) borders (which is currently that towns main town centre or downtown area)?:

Shouldn't that count by definition as ōaza or aza or kōaza under the Japanese addressing system? Lemme know your thoughts guys.

P.S.: Between 1869 and 1889, the period where the Meiji period began in Japan, could it be possible that there were more than just 71,314 natural settlements or village-like hamlets from the Edo period that were the local administrative units at that time? jlog3000 (talk) 19:05, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Japanese_addressing_system&oldid=1203069609"