Talk:Seung-Hui Cho

Did he play video games?

Jack Thompson claims video games are common among these things. Any info if Seung Hui played? Video of Mr Thompson talking about this shooting on Fox news here: http://kotaku.com/gaming/jack-thompson/

It's likely, given the fact that the guns were apparently purchased relatively recently and he had quite a high accuracy rate with smaller handguns. However, leave that for the police to speculate on first and WP to report later. -MissingNOOO 18:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

You're suggesting that proficiency with handguns and intention to buy weapons are a likely result of being a gamer. I recommend following your own advice and withhold speculation. Mr. Thompson is skilled at using tragedies to gain media attention and I'd like to see this issue completely shelved unless a direct factual link is demonstrated.--Kwizatch 19:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The Note He Left

How about something on the page regarding the note he posted http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/chi-070417vtech-shootings,0,4843160.story

Picture

Here is another picture of Cho from the VT website: http://198.82.160.236/tragedy/images/cho.jpg.

Whoever posted the photo with the open mouth: c'mon, don't dehumanize the guy.

He murdered 33 people… how much more dehumanizing can you get?

-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.117.157.7 (talk) 18:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Media outlet

If the NY Times is not a reliable source, who is? //THF 13:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Either way, we are an encyclopedia, and we need corroboration on such a statement. I'm redirecting this to the article for now. --Golbez 13:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

That looks like a NYT Blog link rather than a vetted, published story. Looks a bit speculative at this point. Even so, why should he have an article? Is he notable beyond the shooting? If not, then he can be discussed in the partent article --StuffOfInterest 13:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Charles Whitman has an article; this will be an article eventually, too, almost certainly. And it's in the main Times now.[1] And ABC News. THF 13:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm seeing more information at his profile at CNN.com: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/cho.profile/index.html --Esprix 18:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Name hard to pronounce and remember

This name is gonna be hard to swallow in history, it just doesnt have the same ring to it like kip kinkel, eric harris, dylan klebold, y'know? plus the fact that he's asian ppl might just think some crazy foreign exchange guy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.49.155.106 (talk) 16:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for your idiotic comments, that pure conjecture and speculation are sure to help make this a better wikipedia article. THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION BOARD, only make posts that are relevant to improving the wikipedia article, DO NOT MAKE POSTS THAT ARE ABOUT THE 'TOPIC' THE ARTICLE COVERS. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.167.106.33 (talk) 17:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Although a somewhat random post, maybe an IPA translation should be made to aid pronounciation? CR7 18:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Stub picture

In light of the recent events, is the crime-related stub picture really appropriate? 136.165.46.150 13:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I do agree about the symbol for the crime related stub. Can we find another? If nothing else, out of respect?--Witchzilla 13:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I fixed it. THF 13:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. --Witchzilla 13:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

ABCnews.com [2] has "the official" picture of Cho Seung-hui. Since I'm kinda new here, I'll let more knowledgeable folks decide if it should go up. --Semiautomata 14:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The picture referenced above was not about Cho Seung-hui. It was a picture which appears on "crime stubs". Unfortunately the picture depicted something that would have upset people given the circumstances. We asked that it be removed and our request was graciously honored. --Witchzilla 19:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Name

His name is most likely 趙承輝

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=%E8%B6%99%E6%89%BF%E8%BC%9D&btnG=Google+Search

Wikikin 19:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how but Seung-hui Cho should be redirected to Cho Seung-hui or vice versa

I am not sure, but is the name correctly written? Should it be "Seung-hui" instead? This is the case for instance with the current UN general secretary whose name is spelled Ban Ki-moon, not Ban Ki-Moon. Do we have any Koreans here who could help out on this? --MoRsE 13:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Also on his first name, are we correct there too?

Hangul	Hanja	Revised	MR	Popular spellings
조승희	趙 or 曺	Jo	Cho	Cho Seung Hee or Cho Seung Hui

--MoRsE 13:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not Korean, but an Asian user also told me that all the Korean name are as you have said. MontanNito 13:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I've made the move. Let's see if anyone complains. Ronnotel 13:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Right now, it looks like all the online news outlets are using the uppercase form : http://news.google.com/news?q=Cho+Seung-hui Danny 13:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I think I'd actually trust an Asian before a journalist in this case, even if they were many. :-) Seriously, one problem with this is if e.g. a large agency like AP get it wrong and the story gets more or less copied a lot, a mistake could spread, although that's just a thought. -- Northgrove 14:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I have now also seen many different variations on the name, like Choi, Choe (female version?) and of course Cho (There seems to have been an legendary jazz dancer (a girl) with almost(?) the same name, see Choe Seung-hui. Are these different interpretations of the same name or different ones?--MoRsE 14:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I edit Korean articles. According to the most famous Korean newspaper, the Chosun Ilbo, the gunman's name is 조승희, NOT 조승휘 or 조승회 as was suggested by the infobox. Here's the link [3]. And by the way Choe Seung-hui is completely different. In Wikipedia we use the Revised Romanisation so his romanised name in the infobox is correct. -- Mumun 無文 14:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Can there be consistency with the name? In the table, the Revised Romanization is Jo Seung-hui while the McCune-Reischauer is Cho Sŭng-hŭi. The current name is Cho Seung-hui, which seems to be a combination of the two. For what it's worth, a Canadian radio station read it as "jo sung-i" --Kvasir 18:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I've boldly moved the page. We're English Wikipedia, not Korean Wikipedia. (→Netscott) 18:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Your bold move is giving us editors fits. I keep getting errors when I try to save a change. Thomasmallen 18:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes it was lame (a comment I made before the re-merging). Once again I apologize. (→Netscott) 19:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

This person grew up in the US, went to an American school, and his notoriety stemmed from something he did in the United States. I'm pretty sure that most official documents bearing his name uses the Western order and not the Korean order. Why use the Korean way when it doesn't apply? DHN 19:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

because wiki is filled with correctness nazis that lean heavily toward theory instead of actuality. the guy lived in the US for 15 years. he signed his "play" as "Seung Cho". i think it's pretty clear that the article should be listed under that. one of my best friends from grad school (oddly coincidentally named "Seungmin Cho") switched his. also, we referred to him as "SM" sometimes. some of his korean friends hyphenated, but did not capitalize the "M".-Heterodoxus 20:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Birth date format

Until we have exact birth date, format should follow guidelines at WP:Date section 1.9. Use c. 1982. Ronnotel 13:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

January 18, 1984 http://www.npr.org/blogs/talk/2007/04/norris_hall_shooter_identified.html

Web search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=%22Cho+Seung-Hui%22&btnG=Search

It appears there's no mention whatsoever of this person on the 'net, by their full name. So much for the Facebook hunting people had done. -- Zanimum 13:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Somebody who has a Cyworld account should search him up (not the American one). Korean people are more likely to use Cy so the chances that he would use Facebook is less. Try Cyworld [4]. Mumun 無文 14:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Searched cyworld and couldn't find his page. Korean newpapers say his family imigrated into the States when he was 2 year old. EDIT: he moved to the States when he was 8. Pessay 15:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Resident alient

What does resident alien mean? Does this mean he had permanent residency in the US (green card I believe you call it in the US). Or simply that he was legally resident in the US, i.e. could have been there on a student permit, tourist permit or work permit (both the later seem unlikely of course since he was a student). Nil Einne 13:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Resident alien means that an individual is here legally, but typically without a Green Card, and certainly without citizenship. Thomasmallen 13:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It's linked now anyway Nil Einne 13:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Page locked?

You know, this whole collaborative writing process is going to be very slow if no one can edit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.104.66.1 (talk) 13:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

We were frequently removing racist vandalism directed towards East Asians and Koreans. I'm pretty sure that's why it was locked. Thomasmallen 13:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It's only semi-protected. Log in to edit. Nja247 (talk • contribs) 13:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I tried. I made an account, and it still wouldn't work.

Your account has to be 4 days old John Stattic 14:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

What do you want to edit? Comments on the talk-page can result in changes in the article if other editors agree. THF 14:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, some of the details already in the Virginia Tech massacre article, I guess. Alleged fight with his girlfriend, maybe a brief account of some of the details we have of the massacre. That type of stuff.

Just to echo what many people might say, I think the semi-protection is a good idea. Yesterday there was so much vandalism happening on the main article. MCalamari 16:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Where did he get a gun?

How did this guy find a gun? Doesn't it take years of training and background checks to get one? He was just a kid and had only been in the country for school. Something doesn't make sense here.

You don't need a gun license in Virginia (unsigned comment)

Of course it doesn't require that. Perhaps in other countries or more "liberal" states, but in Virginia you simply have to pass a criminal background check and be of age. And if he wanted to get these guns another way (say, if the legal bars are higher) I know of a guy out that way who sells used 9mm pistols for $350 and new, unmarked ones for $500 on the black market. Thomasmallen 14:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I hope this isn't an argument against gun control. "You" may know a guy who can get you a gun illegally, but I doubt this foreign-exchange student would know where to get one. It is sick that this guy can just walk into a store and buy a gun.Bunbury18 14:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Good point, and thanks for the comment. It let me edit your talk page to the correct version (you had blanked the three vandalism warnings). Thomasmallen 14:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Cho was not a "foreign-exchange student." He had lived here in Northern Virginia since childhood, regardless of what his immigration status was. Foreigners who hold valid permanent residence status, as Cho had, are extended almost all of the same rights as US citizens--including the right to purchase and carry firearms. Only foreigners who are here on "non-immigrant" visas are excluded (and indeed, it is a federal felony for such aliens merely even to possess any firearm).
Moreover, Cho was hardly a "kid" it seems, since he was 23 years old. One must be at least 21 years of age to purchase handguns legally in the United States (or 18 years of age to purchase rifles or shotguns).--Ryanaxp 14:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Blogs (ie. hotair.com) suggest the guns wwere bought here: http://www.roanokefirearms.com/ because the owner posted the name "Cho" on the black-rifles discussion board April 16, long before the ID was publicly known. The poster also claimed ATF told him the receipt was found on the shooter which was also confirmed by officials today. (CraigM)

Any link?--58.104.66.1 14:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

http://www.nickqueen.com/?p=248 Is a link to the text, but the original forums (black-rifles.com) site is not responding currently. (CraigM)

http://www.nickqueen.com/?p=248 Now has a screenshot up of the forum post. (Ash) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.186.63.205 (talk) 16:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Both guns mentioned in the forum post (Glock 19 and Walther 22) match those reported today on CNN (CraigM) 74.120.80.20 16:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this might merit a mention in the actual article. Anyone else think so?--58.104.66.1 17:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Roanoake Firearms is now confirmed as where the guns were purchased (CNN); the forum posting was true. 74.120.80.20 19:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Age

It doesn't bother me enormously, but is there any need for the last sentence saying "According to a press conference on April 17, officials identified Cho as being 23 years old." ? I mean, when I read it I felt as though it doesn't flow well with the rest of the article, as in it looks really weird to have it there and worded thus, and is also kind of redundant since we know his date of birth and death anyway. F. Delpierre 14:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

This was only added when his exact year of birth was unknown, and was speculated as 1982 or 1983. John Stattic 14:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

ChoSeungHui.com

I considered purchasing it because, well, I'm an opportunist, but it already redirects to Virginia Tech. Quick! Thomasmallen 14:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Someone has also already purchased ChoSeung-hui.com.

Centreville

I'm a big fan of US spellings for US topics (and British for British topics) but for crying out loud the Virginia city is spelled CENTREVILLE. Stop changing it to "Centerville." Moncrief 14:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think its the US vs. UK spellings -- its the fact that the media has the name of the town wrong. MSNBC says 'resident alien with a residence established in Centerville, Va. '... against CenTERville does not exist in virginia... but we having an edit war now because of it. MrMacMan ^Talk 14:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I used to live about five minutes from Centreville, and my office (where I'm entering this) is about ten minutes away via Route 66. I can attest that the name is, truly, Centreville! It has a strong little Korean community west of the intersection of 29 and 66, but overall it's a lame cross between Manassas and Annandale... Thomasmallen 14:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

WHY do we have an edit war over something that is verifiable? The city is spelled that way. Can people please verify that on their own? The wrong way has a red link, for pete's sake!! Moncrief 14:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

4000 articles say Centreville. Why are we going with the one that has it wrong? Centreville is in Fairfax County. The shooter is from Fairfax County. THF 14:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Can we CALM down please? Lets come to a consensus on the name without edit waring? MrMacMan ^Talk 14:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

There may BE a Centerville, but this guy was from CENTREVILLE, a Washington suburb, per the Washington Post. Moncrief 15:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Now that our esteemed colleagues have found a source that says Centreville, instead of fighting over one that says Centerville (Which does exist, but apparently you didn't bother to find out), the fight is over. --Golbez 15:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually you didn't bother to verify that he was from the much more well-known city of Centreville by checking any number of news sources, insisting on a news source in which the name was spelled incorrectly. The fight was wholly generated and perpetuated by you. Moncrief 15:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not my job to vet your sources, it's my job to work with what I'm given. You're the one who constantly mis-cited a source. I suppose I was so busy preserving our treatment of the source that I lacked the time to check otherwise, so maybe I'm lazy too. --Golbez 15:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The source itself was a mis-cite. I take a broader view, which is getting accurate information into an article rather than being pigheaded about an obvious misspelling in one news source. Moncrief 15:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Yet you refused to find a better source, so who's being pigheaded? --Golbez 15:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The Washington Post isn't a "better source"? Moncrief 15:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

What does the post have to do with this? When I was fighting you, the only source was MSNBC saying Centerville. I apologize for getting emotional, but you did the same thing; if it was so obviously a typo, then you could have *easily* (apparently) found a better source. You simply refused to believe that Centerville existed. --Golbez 15:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:CIV and WP:COOL, please both of you. THF 15:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Apology accepted. Moncrief 15:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Let's all calm down about this. BOTH cities exist. For confirmation, see here: [5] and here: [6]. Different media outlets are claiming that each city are his city of residence. For confirmation, see the posted MSNBC article (CenTERville), and the posted Washington Post article (CenTREville.) Until this is resolved, the wiki article should reflect the ongoing confusion in this rapidly developing story. I will now edit article to reflect the discrepancies in sources and acknowledge that either may be the case. Elambeth 15:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Damm this guy doesn't live too far from me! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.188.204.2 (talk) 15:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Ok... but every media source says he lived in Fairfax look at a map here. CenTERville is not in the north east section of the state. see map here. So -- again -- I'm pretty sure its cenTREville MrMacMan ^Talk 15:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

He lived in Centreville. I live in the same neighborhood. The spelling may be silly and an affectation, but that is how it is spelled. And lest I be accused of contributing original research, please, anyone, check google maps or yahoo map or any map at all, using the zip code of his much-publicized high school. He was in the Fairfax County public school system, and that means CenTREville. The article should not reflect "confusion" when there isn't any; MSNBC was just typing too fast. --Lisasmall 19:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I let myself get way too heated. Sigh. This is a stressful time. I apologize. --Golbez 15:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

He went to Tree Elementary School, for 4th and 5th grade and went by "Seung Cho" (or so the yearbook says). I believe for 6th grade, he went to Brookfield, and then Stone Middle School prior to attending Westfield HS. Gonnadunk 18:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Speeding ticket

I don't think it could be the cause, but it appears that Cho received a speeding ticket last week. To verify, go to the Virginia General District Court Case Information System and select "Montgomery County General District/Blacksburg", then on the next page select "Traffic," and then search for "cho, seung". --Ryanaxp 15:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I see corroboration for this at CCN: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/cho.profile/index.html Esprix 18:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

You don't need to dredge up every minutia on the guy. I promise you it has nothing to do with his motivation.

MySpace page

With MySpace being so popular is it known if he had a MySpace page or not? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.71.254.71 (talk) 15:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Does that really matter? Or better... does that warrant posting on wikipedia? I say no. MrMacMan ^Talk 15:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I would say yes it would matter a lot. Perhaps he was showing signs of his mental breakdown on his page. A lot of people who commited homicide have been found to keep blogs and have occasionally foreshadowed something to the extent of what they were intending to do. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.188.204.2 (talk) 15:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

I will try to search for it on my free time, and I will post it on the discussion page before I do anything.SniperWolf1564 16:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if he had a myspace page, but it looks like there is some evidence of web activity. Look at the "Where did he get the gun" section

Cell Phone Camera Video

As a reference with all discussions video for factual events is always warranted with that being said, why was the video that is posted on Youtube deleted as a reference? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HNrBd4kKMg AcePuppy 15:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge discussion

We should merge this stub article with the main Virginia Tech massacre article. The shooter has no notoraity except for his crime of mass murder, which is told in the main article. Mytwocents 15:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Terrible, terrible idea. Do not merge. Moncrief 15:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. I think the easiest example of perpetrators that have their own article is Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. MrMacMan ^Talk 15:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Do not merge, as per above. – John Stattic (talk) 15:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Strongly disagree to merge, this is the worst school shooting in US History, even beyond the Columbine shooting, if the gunman at the massacre have there own page why shouldn't the Virginia Tech Killer have one as well. AcePuppy 15:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

No no this is a non starter. I'm revoming the box becasue there are too many already, this is a high profile page, and it will put people off. David Spart (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) 15:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Also Charles Whitman. Too early to talk about merging. Let's revisit in a week. THF 15:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

This article is rapidly growing, keep --MoRsE 15:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Remove the box please, this isn't going to happen, and there are 3 boxes now, it looks daft. David Spart (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) 15:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Do not merge. Charles Whitman and the Columbine killers have their own pages. This massacre was worse. The killer here should also have his own page. Bruin03 15:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

He certainly passes WP:N, and I'm sure dozens of articles are going to be written on him in the coming weeks that will allow expansion of this article. Don't merge. --Falcorian ^(talk) 15:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

• Support. The content should start out as part of the main article, probably in its own section. Once there is enough content to justify splitting out to a separate article then it should happen. Everyone wants to start an article, so we keep doing this backwards. --StuffOfInterest 15:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose per Bruin03.. 132.205.44.134 16:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

• Do Not Merge There are plenty of other major criminals that have their own articles. This one serves to take the focus off the individual on the event page, which should really focus on the event. Already his citizenship and motivation have been discussed. This is a better place for that. MCalamari 17:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

romanisation infobox or 'in-text' romanisation

We should not repeat the romanisation information. We should remove the romanisation infobox or the info in the text. Let's not be repetitive. Please check other articles about Koreans. One way or the other, not both please. Mumun 無文 15:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

No need for both tags

I removed the current event tag - IF he "recently died" this is obviously a current event, IE this is tautological. David Spart (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) 15:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds fine. Too many tags is a bad thing in my mind. --Falcorian ^(talk) 15:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

However, the second tag is reasonable because it is both a recent death AND related to the VA Tech massacre. AEMoreira042281 16:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Which is why it is a tautology. David Spart (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) 16:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Motives?

I just read in a discussion forum that it had something to do with his girlfriend, with sounds pretty pathetic to commit his acts. Anyone find anything else? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.188.204.2 (talk) 15:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Nothing has been presented to the media about motive. Its all speculation. And its unnecessary to call the dead guy 'pathetic', don't you think? MrMacMan ^Talk 15:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

That fellow killed 32 innocent people, you can call him whatever you want IMO. Yellowking 16:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Not stating that he is a pathetic person. Just stating if that were to be his reasoning for it, which in my opinion is very, very pathetic.

Sounds like he was an isolated, frustrated, and angry person. The girlfriend thing was probably just the match which set him off. ~ Rollo44 18:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

BLP

Altho this is not a BLP, please take great care and always remember WP:BLP when posting on this talk page and editing the article as it could be incredibly harmful if we suggest someone else is this person. Please do not add links to photos, myspace pages or anything of that sort unless you can confirm that they belong to Cho from a (preferbly multiple) reliable sources Nil Einne 15:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

not a 'foriegn exchange kid".

The guy(the shooter) is not a 'foriegn exchange kid". He has stayed in the us for 14 years - most of the people who come to the US at a small age blend very well into the society. PLEASE DISPEL ANY THOUGHTS WHICH MAKES HIM A GUY WHO CAME HERE JUST FOR SCHOOL OR SOMETHING STUPID LIKE THAT! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sumanthsagar (talk • contribs) 15:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

... Um... I don't see anywhere in the article a mention about him being a foreign exchange student or not. MrMacMan ^Talk 15:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

He isn't necessarily saying that the article does say that. Christopher Connor 16:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

name

even south korean newspapers do not correctly identifiy the suspect's name, they either use 조승희 or 조승휘. Janviermichelle 15:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

yes, i saw that daum uses 휘 but chosun.com and Yonhap have been using 조승희 at least until the time this message was signed. Perhaps we won't know exactly for a while. Mumun 無文 15:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

However, 禧 is 복희...Mumun 無文 16:00, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Without a doubt 휘 is used in masculine Korean names and was common in the era when he was born. 승희 is more of a feminine name, though I have seen males with that given name. A female example is Lee 승희, a female model from the US known for her large breasts and scantily clad photos. Eventually we will find his accurate name.

BBC Profile

"According to the Washington Post, his parents live in Fairfax County, an affluent suburb of Washington DC, just outside Arlington and Alexandria."...This is incorrect, Fairfax County borders Arlington county and the City of Alexandria. I also came across a source (Fox, I believe) stating that Centreville is in Eastern Virginia, near Williamsburg! Thomasmallen 16:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow the media really sucks don't they. google map of Centreville MrMacMan ^Talk 16:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Links, please. --Golbez 16:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't matter since willliamsburg is nowhere near the location on the map. MrMacMan ^Talk 16:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

MrMacMan, did you pay no attention whatsoever? Centerville ("er") is by williamsburg. So if Fox is mentioning a one by Williamsburg, they mean Cent*er*ville. However, since I can't tell that's what's actually being said, I asked for a map. So, yeah, read. Please. --Golbez 16:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

And since you used a google map link: google map of Centerville, you know someday you'll have to admit it exists --Golbez 16:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I think your mistaken... a while back i posted a map of CenTERville in this edit here. You can stop being nasty to me now too. MrMacMan ^Talk 16:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I was just very annoyed at the strawman you created. You show a map of Centreville, then say that it's nowhere near Williamsburg - when obviously they meant Centerville is near Williamsburg. --Golbez 16:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Being a Korean from Centreville, I can tell you that there are a lot of Koreans in Centreville, and that it's more likely he's from Centreville than Centerville, and the Washington Post is generally a source you can trust to get things right about Virginia locations; they cover the local area more or less, and unlike the Times they aren't full of typos on the front page and a message from the Unification church... I'm betting that whatever news sources say that it's Centerville are spelling it wrong, then looking up where that is. Happens all the time, and I would be doubting this less if he weren't Korean. -129.21.96.59 16:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Fairfax county IS one of the suburbs surrounding the Washington DC area.

Revert?

MrMacMan, what on earth was wrong with that? I was trying to make it following more the guidelines on biographical articles. --MoRsE 16:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Well I didn't see why the topic heading wasn't going to be about him. Yes he's notable because of the shooting, but I dont think that would be his entire life. I'm not as familiar with WP:BLP as i should be so if your edits make it better than please change it. I just didn't see that type of format for other school shooters. MrMacMan ^Talk 16:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

조승희

Can someone create a redirect at 조승희 to this article? 132.205.44.134 16:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

• also for hanja 曹丞禧. 132.205.44.134 16:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Created redirect for the first one, doing the second one now. Kntrabssi 16:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Done and Done. Kntrabssi 16:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

photo

CNN has a new photo from the Department of Homeland Security... 132.205.44.134 16:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Anyone know if this photo would be in the public domain? --- RockMFR 16:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It's at http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/newt1.vt13.tues.jpg -- attributed to DHS, from his green card ... I guess that counts as created by a government agency and thus not under copyright, right? --zenohockey 16:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Westfield High School

CNN announced that Cho, two victims and an unrelated shooter came from Westfield high. The unrelated shooter earlier this month killed two cops. Or atleast I think that's what CNN said. 132.205.44.134 16:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

CNN says it was last year that Michael Kennedy Westfield alum, shot and killed two cops in a police substation... 132.205.44.134 19:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

English Major

This is probably splitting hairs at the worst possible time, but was he an English language major, or English literature major (or perhaps even something else)? I know all links on here right now seem to be pointing to English language, but every news source I've seen is pretty ambiguous. 132.170.29.48 17:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It seems he was a student of creative writing, so perhaps neither, or English with a specialization in creative writing. I don't think we should link to the language or literature until this is clarified. It's a good question. Moncrief 17:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

From reading the school's English department website, I don't think he could have been an English language major - their program (like most college English major programs) seems more literature-based. I don't know - perhaps English studies would be the appropriate article to wikilink to? schi ^talk 18:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

He was involved in creative writing classes and evidentally wrote a play. Why do you believe his major didn't involve literature? Nil Einne 19:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Family necessary?

Is it really necessary to talk about his family? They are innocent and people shouldn't associate him with his family - or even ruin his family's business. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.111.231.185 (talk) 17:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

More importantly, should we really be putting his parent's exact address here?--58.104.66.1 17:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

For Christ's sake, remove the family's address, don't you think they're having enough trouble right now? Who thought putting the address in the article was even a remotely reasonable thing to do?

Agreed. I think their EXACT address is overkill. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 139.60.210.5 (talk) 17:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

If it hasn't been already, i'm going to ask for the address to be OVERSIGHT'd. -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 17:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Their home address is of no relevance to this or other articles and will most likely only cause the parents more stress one way or another. Away with it. --MoRsE 20:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki

Admin, please add interwiki: pl:Cho Seung-hui and ru:Чо Сеунг-хуи. Bocianski 17:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Done -- feb^OBJECTION! 17:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Korean club

How is this at all notable? There's no reason we should expect him to participate in such activities. Seems racist to think he'd "stick to his own kind". Titanium Dragon 17:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I absolutely agree, especially with the wording as it now exists in the article -- as if there is a implied negative connotation because he didn't participate in those activities. Moncrief 17:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Tried to clean it up some. Lemme know if you think it could be done better -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 17:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I read the article and it says, "he rarely joined or talked with them." It does NOT say that he refused to talk or join them. Janviermichelle 18:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Why is Korean club even mentioned? He doesn't have an obligation to join even if he was Korean. Why don't we mention he didn't join the chess club or the basketball team and did not talk with them. --Kvasir 18:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Parents' home address

I think posting his parents' home address is very inappropriate. They need their privacy during this time as well, and someone in law school I know says there's all sorts of liability for Wikipedia if that stays. 69.234.216.51 17:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Gone per WP:BLP. Can an admin delete the relevant history? THF 17:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I've asked for the history pages in question to be removed through Oversight -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 17:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

At least one newspaper has printed the address, so this is ultimately futile, alas. THF 17:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not a matter of what the rags print, wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, and beyond that being beyond good taste and reason (and potentially, the law), it's unencyclopaedic. Let the paper be sued, don't get wikipedia involved.-- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 18:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not defending the newspaper or the insertion. THF 18:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

"Asian American" (or "Korean American") category removal

The rationale for removing this category that I've seen in the edit summaries is specious: that he wasn't a US citizen. Why does one need to be a US citizen and not a US permanent resident who has been living in the US since the age of 8 to be considered "American"? Here was an English major, someone who was living in this country from the age of 8, but because he didn't yet have a US passport he can't be considered American. I think this is absurd reasoning, frankly. The concept of "Asian American" has more to do with identification than citizenship, and if you disagree, please cite some evidence for your point of view.

If you disagree with this, I assume you'll back me up if I go through every European American category and delete those people in said categories who never obtained US citizenship but lived in the US for any number of years. Moncrief 18:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

No Passport, no citizenship. If your not an american citizen, your not American.

Can you PLEASE sign your posts? It's "you're" not "your." Who says? You can't even sign your posts; why do you get to define who is American and who isn't? Do you have any idea what permanent legal residency even means? Moncrief 18:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

That wasn't by me (the main anti-"Category: Asian Americans" editor). The point is though, if I live in Argentina for the next 12 years while retaining my American citizenship, I'm under the aegis of the United States and no other nation. However, I might be considered a Buenos Airean, just as this student could be a Centrevillian (which would be, by the way, a very cool bad-guy nickname).

You make a good point about residency, but I don't think that residency alone quite cuts it. Thomasmallen 18:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Why not? What evidence do you have to back your assertion up? Will you work with me to remove from the, say, Italian American category every person who never got US citizenship? Moncrief 18:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Should be Asian American. Note the WP article begins with "An Asian American is generally defined as a person of Asian ancestry who was born in or is an immigrant to the United States." (my emphasis added) schi ^talk 18:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. We're supposed to ignore the information in the category itself about who belongs in that category? I will be thrilled to take this matter to Requests for Comment if it keeps getting reverted. Why is it so difficult to accept that someone who has lived in the US since the age of 8 is American? When has "American" been defined solely by citizenship (and permanent residency is in many ways a social equivalent) and not by identification and culture? Are you telling me that if he had been born in the U.S. when his Korean parents were on vacation but moved to Korea at the age of three months and had lived there since that he would THEN be an Asian American? Why not? He would be an automatic U.S. citizen in that case. Moncrief 19:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't know who last reverted, but you won't see more reverting from me. I've already caved :^) Thomasmallen

Whether he's an Asian American or not will ultimately depend on his POV. In the absence of sources for this, the fact he has been there since 8 or 9 should suggest he probably did consider himself an Asian American Nil Einne 19:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

He's a Asian living permanently in America and thus an Asian American, I'm confused why this is an issue.Harlock jds 20:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Please be careful editing

Please be careful in deleting footnotes that are named: someone deleted the first Newsday footnote, and now two other footnotes have been blanked as a result. THF 18:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Korean norms

Why is English Wikipedia following Korean norms by having this person's last name first? (→Netscott) 18:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

One thing's for sure, every single English news outlet is using Cho Seung-hui. -- RattleMan 18:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I suppose they are doing so blindly. There is a redirect in place... so there shouldn't be a problem for people looking for this article. (→Netscott) 18:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

This should be put back to Cho Seung-hui. Korean names are last name first, and the MSM outlets are all using Cho Seung-hui. --Scientz

We might be reinventing the wheel here. I imagine there is a style guide for this that spells out how this type of thing is to be dealt with. (→Netscott) 18:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, there was pretty strong defacto consensus on this format as Cho Seung-hui, let's please keep this as was. Ronnotel 18:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed as per Ronnotel. Cho Seung-hui it is.Mumun 無文 18:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I think an admin is needed here as I've been unable to revert the move, it complains that Cho Seung-hui already exists. Does anyone know how to get around this? Ronnotel 18:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Policy is to use family name first unless the individual is known to prefer otherwise so Cho Seung-hui is according to policy as well Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean) Nil Einne

I've put in a request for moving on WP:AN. (→Netscott) 18:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Having gone through FCPS like he did, I'm pretty sure he was called something like "Seung-Hui Cho" in the Western order by classmates and teachers for most of his life in school and society at large; this is the norm for Asians in American public schools. That's probably how it will go down in the end. However, most coverage out there currently has it in the Korean order, and that's how it should go for now. -129.21.96.59 18:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you look at the cover of the play he apparently wrote, "Richard McBeef", he has listed his name as "Seung Cho". -129.21.96.59 19:00, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Was the something writen by him tho? It's not that uncommon I suspect for him to be called 'Seung Cho' by crappy programs as well as people who don't understand Korean naming. He may receive letters address to Seung Cho because the naming program is somewhat flawed, it doesn't indicate it's something he uses in real life. BTW, note that asking people to call him Seung-Hui Cho does not establish that it's his preferred order. Many people may choose to use one order for convenience but still prefer the traditional order. I'm Malaysian Chinese and often use the western order for convenience and clarity in New Zealand, as do my siblings, but all of use still prefer the proper order Nil Einne 19:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong, I'm still in doubt as to the authenticity of the play's authorship, even. However, the "crappy program" was probably Microsoft Word, and the typist was probably him, unless you can prove otherwise. After all, if someone else wrote the play, it'd either have another name on it, or it's fake. Encyclopedically speaking, whatever you go by most is the one you prefer, even if you don't like it as much. (Me? My Asian name is my middle name, so no mixing around. Ha!) -129.21.96.59 19:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

By crappy programs I more meant the university's crappy programs. If he printed the play out himself, then I would presume he chose to call himself Seung Cho but if it is something printed out by the university or if the university produces the coverpage or something, then it may not be something he calls himself. However even assuming he did call himself Seung Cho in the play, it's difficult to establish his preferred name as it may again be more of a matter of convience. Actually, it would suprise me less if he called himself Hui Cho. If he had any brothers or male paternal cousins, they may share the same generational name with him (Seung) so calling himself Seung Cho would be a bit strange. But he may not have or may not care. Anyway I guess this is getting too OT should I should stop here Nil Einne 19:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Eh, these days it's unlikely (but not impossible) that they would use specialized software just to typeset plays for the English department. However, I'm thinking it is very very unlikely he would call himself "Hui", because "Hui" as in 희 is a pretty common element in female Korean names (sort of like "ko" is the end of a lot of Japanese girls' names; someone else discussed this in more detail elsewhere on this talk page). More investigation would be needed to justify moving article to "Seung Cho". And yes, we are kind of OT :) -129.21.96.59 20:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I've fully move-protected the article, after Angr untangled the mess made by a bunch of page moves. If there's any need to move the page, request unprotection. --Slowking Man 19:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Cultural taboo

I've taken this out of the article because of WP:SYN. WP:NOR prohibits citing to sources to draw conclusions or do analysis not available in reliable sources discussing the subject of the article. THF 18:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

What is it that you're referring to specifically? Moncrief 18:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It may be a Korean taboo to write or print somebody's name in red ink. However, I am not too sure that the words "Ismail Axe" qualify as as a name of a person. Mumun 無文 18:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Richard McBeef

Apparently, our murderer wrote a play: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

I read it (well, skimmed it thoroughly. It's a brief 10 pages), and that is one awful excuse for a play. Sounds like he threw it together after a night of (name the time-consuming leisure activity). Certainly not on par with the stuff the Unabomber wrote. Thomasmallen 18:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

And can we please now call him The Slaughterhouse Shakespeare??

The info is relevant. I think it should be in the motive section . But 1st it NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP. _Lilkunta 19:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Will whoever keeps deleting this hold off for ten seconds so that I can put the citation in, please? The attribution has been made by multiple news sources, including MSNBC at 3:45 pm ET this date. --Lisasmall 20:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

"Writings" section needs cleanup

The info is relevant. I think it should be in the motive section . But 1st it NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP. _Lilkunta 19:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

it keeps getting deleted! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RMThompson (talk • contribs) 19:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Woo Bum-Kon

Is it really necessary to link to the second Korean mass-murderer? Other than being a Korean killer, what connection is there between these two individuals? Links to the Columbine killers are not present, so why would this be linked? Bluefield 19:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted, pending any evidence of relevance. Anthony.moore 19:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Both set records in spree killing. Woo Bum-Kon set the world record, while Cho Seung hui set the record for the United States. In any case, it's not unusual for wikipedia articles to link to other similar cases. You see that sort of thing on many crime-related articles. If they weren't both Korean, it'd still merit a link.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Isocyanide (talk

• contribs) 19:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

I believe that there is a link to the Colubmine killings via the School massacre link in "see also." At least, I've added it twice amid all the vandalism today. I think Woo Bum-Kon is relevant both for nationality, and for the record-setting that both men have in common, as Isocyanide says above. --Lisasmall 19:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

You guys are talking about how they "set records" like it is an Olympic competition or something. Why not link to the article about Shoko Asahara while we are at it? He is an Asian killer. Why not establish who the most prolific killer is in every country in the world and a "See Also" link to them as well? The inclusion of Bum-Kon in this article is unnecessary and there is no reason to relate this kid to a Korean soldier. And the link to the Columbine killers is only through a link to all school shootings, then through the link to Columbine, while Bum-Kon gets a direct link? Totally inconsistent. Bluefield 20:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Bluefield. We need to establish a top 100 list or something for most confirmed kills by one person acting alone. Ikilled007 20:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Shoko Asahara wasn't a spree killer. He was a cult leader who ordered killings, which is a different thing. The similarities with Bum-kon (a former policeman, not a soldier) also go beyond record setting (and if you have a better way to phrase it, please do). Both did not stop after their first set of killings, but moved away to later kill another set of people. The trigger for both has allegedly been a fight with their girlfriends. And of course, both committed suicide. You cannot say the same for nny other two spree killers—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Isocyanide (talk • contribs) 20:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

His Suicide

The article says he shot himself (in the head?). Do we know which gun he used on himself? Ikilled007 20:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)