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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Andra Febrian (talk | contribs) at 09:11, 30 July 2024 (→Requested move 20 July 2024: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Requested move 7 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 09:39, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Chrysler → Stellantis North America – chrysler is currently only an automobile brand, not a company Michael H (talk) 16:31, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Splitting proposal

I'd like to propose two page splits...

First, I'll start with the less controversial one: I'd like to propose that the § Chrysler brand section be split into a page called Chrysler (automotive brand), separate from the parent company. It's no different than say the GMC brand being split from the GM parent company article. At 133k, this article is well past the point of a WP:SIZESPLIT, and this seems like a logical place to make the split.

I like @User:Springee's logic above, so I'd therefore further propose that the page be further split into both a Chrysler Corporation page (covering the history of the company from 1925–1998) and a Stellantis North America page (covering the history of the company from 1998 to the present). It's a somewhat arbitrary date, but in my reading, it's the start of a period of the company being passed between international partners.

Discussion of splits

  • Before I !vote, RickyCourtney could you outline what the splits will look like? I think I'm misunderstanding but are you proposing splitting this article into three? Springee (talk) 20:43, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Correct, but I'm also open to splitting into only two articles [just a spin-off of Chrysler (automotive brand)]. RickyCourtney (talk) 20:47, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Given the length I generally support the the idea of splitting the brand from the company but I think we should have a clear definition of what goes where before doing so. So rockets and tanks stay with the company. Where would discussion of the Hemi engines go? I'm asking as a point of discussion. Given the length I do think some type of split makes sense. I would prefer as few splits as possible. Springee (talk) 21:15, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I'll retract my proposal to split the Corporation page into two. I would propose a pretty cut and dry spin-off of the Chrysler brand section. You can see my proposed post split pages at Draft:Chrysler and Draft:Chrysler (automotive brand). -- RickyCourtney (talk) 21:35, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Post split discussion

I have completed the spin-off of Chrysler (automotive brand). Please feel free to discuss any further issues here. -- RickyCourtney (talk) 00:48, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 July 2024

Chrysler → Stellantis North America – Now that the page for the Chrysler brand has been split into Chrysler (brand) it would make sense to rename the page to Stellantis North America. Professional Adriazeri (talk) 18:08, 20 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom; matches the COMMONNAME I’ve come across in most recent articles, I think it is clear that its usage has been adaopted. Bobby Cohn (talk) 18:32, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Automobiles has been notified of this discussion. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - might support if the proposal is about spinning off post-merger(s) history from Chrysler. Stellantis North America is not only not a common name, but covers a quite different context as well. Chrysler (not the brand) in my mind is an automaker that is/was one of the Big Three, while Stellantis North America in my mind is a Stellantis branch / regional office.
(On an unrelated note it's quite confusing to have an article called "Chrysler", that starts with "FCA US, LLC, doing business as Stellantis North America". That's three different-sounding corporate names.) Andra Febrian (talk) 18:49, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I find it particularly astonishing that you complain about the three different corporate names in the article while rejecting the solution to bring that down to two (two being the minimum that would be appropriate for this article)

I think your point about splitting the article into pre-DaimlerChrysler and then everything else is valid on paper, but it would appear quite confusing to have Chrysler (1925–1998), Chrysler (brand), DaimlerChrysler era (don’t know how this would fit in any of the post-split articles), and then Stellantis North America as well. Adriazeri (talk) 20:38, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You realize it's not the only solution right? The proposal calls for renaming Chrysler to Stellantis North America, so the former would redirect to the latter - I reject this. I wouldn't mind if the proposal is to make a separate article, therefore in the Chrysler article there's no need to mention FCA/Stellantis as the scope would change. But this is something else that should be proposed separately. Andra Febrian (talk) 08:26, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support split and rename The company hasn’t been Chrysler in over 25 years, continuing to call it so is untenable as seen by the word salad that is the first sentence. The article is called "Chrysler" (because of heavy prior opposition to changing the article name) that starts with "FCA US, LLC, doing business as Stellantis North America" (because while the company has consistently used the Stellantis brand, they never bothered to change their legal name which remains FCA US, LLC.)
If we are to split the article apart, in my opinion, the cleanest point would be the exit from bankruptcy. The company that exited bankruptcy would technically not be the same Chrysler that was established in 1925. RickyCourtney (talk) 04:09, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have another bold suggestion. We could essentially rewind this page to 2009. The history post-2008 can live on the Stellantis page.
I can find no evidence that Stellantis uses the name Stellantis North America in any official capacity. We don’t have a Stellantis Europe page. RickyCourtney (talk) 04:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Stellantis Europe. Adriazeri (talk) 16:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do we need to break the Stellantis North America and Stellantis Europe divisions apart? RickyCourtney (talk) 17:34, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still, I think it's a weird page. Legally sure, Stellantis Europe is the successor of FCA Italy and Fiat Group, but one would expect Stellantis Europe covers Stellantis' European operations (including ex-PSA, plants in Spain, Slovakia, Poland, Serbia etc.) Andra Febrian (talk) 09:11, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I understand why editors are pushing for a move. What we might do instead would be handle this as many of the articles about aerospace companies have been handled. We could simply state that Chrysler as a company stopped existing in 1998. Consider the example of Lockheed Corporation. People still commonly refer to "Lockheed" even though they are actually speaking about Lockheed Martin. A flaw in my example is that Lockheed Martin is a direct successor vs Stellantis which is a few legal organizations past Chrysler but we might be able to plaster over that. Still, I think that makes more sense vs listing Chrysler's work on the space program and as the prime contractor for the M1 tank as a Stellantis project. Basically, I think a move can work but I don't think this is the right one. Springee (talk) 11:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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