Talk:Super Smash Bros./Archive 7

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Archive

The page was getting long again. I've shoved it all into an archive, so feel free to bring back any active discussions. You Can't See Me! 23:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

SSBB Picture

I know this subject has been mentioned once already, but I thin we should put another picture for the Brawl section of the article, because (even though that picture was launched from the official site) that picture is fake. You can see that by looking at Mario and Pikachu's symbols. They are all from Melee. Also, it really doesn't capture the "feel" of the game. I think we should put the picture where Mario, DK, Peach, and Samus are fighting, in which is found on the section about Wi-Fi Play on the official site. Mr. Mario 192 20:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

...How can it be fake if it's from Dojo? No, it's fine. >_> -Sukecchi 02:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I do not think it is from Dojo. 68.76.120.240 11:00, 8 October 2007 (UTC)Kinz The photo was launched right on the beggining of the game's production of story and multiplayer. Of course they didn't have time to fix the symblos. I agree with Mr.Mario 192. Rglong 22:59, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with it. They're just symbols. All we need is something showing Brawl in action. It's not a big deal. Be more concerned with other things about the article. Like vandalism and useless information. Besides, 'fake' isn't the word to use in this situation. It's 'outdated'. -Sukecchi 03:03, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, still it's better for the article not use outdated photos. The Wi-Fi image is Brawl in action, and, because shows online action, it would enrich the article. Mr. Mario 192 23:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.101.209.139 (talk)

Why does it have to be that Wifi image? Technically, EVERY image on that site is of Brawl in action. Are you basing 'in action' on the damage meter being in the screenshot? -Sukecchi 12:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to be bold and change the image if you feel the need to replace it. You Can't See Me! 08:35, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Citations Needed

In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Zero Suit Samus is not a stand alone character. Samus Aran can become Zero Suit Samus if she uses her Final Smash, during which she loses all of her armor.

Where is any sorce for this footnote under the playable charactor's list? I have not seen this officially stated yea or nay. By the way, if you are looking for a non-stand alone character you ought to add Giga Bowser to the list, seeing that he's playable in Brawl. The thing is would he be under the Mario or the Smash Bros Series of Origin? --209.247.5.142 08:13, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

ZSS is a completely separate character from Samus according to the list, whereas Giga Bowser is nothing more than a temporary transformation according to Bowser's profile. There's a difference between breaking off into a new character (ex: Zelda/Shiek; Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard) and temporarily ubering up (ex: any character after attaining a Metal Box).

As for your initial concern, here is the source: [1]. The article needs more sourcing in general. You Can't See Me! 08:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

• I just checked that cite; it says she transforms but it never says that that's the only way to become Zero-Suit. --WhereIsTheCite? 06:22, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's another source. This one is ZSS's profile, which notes that Samus becomes ZSS if her suit is destroyed. Come to think of it, though, the Final Smash is pointed out as a way to destroy her suit, but it is never stated to be the only way. I'll rephrase it slightly; however, the note about them being linked ought to stay, since the transformation does have a source. You Can't See Me! 06:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Not trying to start a big fight but Pokemon Trainer is one character, Zelda and sheik; Samus and Zero Suit Sumas are sepprate characters, Just to keep it all strait. See Talk:Super Smash Bros. (series)/Archive 4#Pokemon Trainer...again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 041744 (talk • contribs) 13:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Of course, of course. I was just pointing out every transformation that popped into my head. Heh, sorry... You Can't See Me! 20:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Except that with Zelda/Shiek and Pokemon Trainer you can go back. With Samus/ZSS you can't. It's unique so far. — Jaxad0127 15:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

We don't know for a fact that you can't change back. True, it's unlikely, but it could be possible. The world's hungriest paperweight 16:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Im my opinion I think Zero Suit Samus is unlockable after Samus does the "Final Smash." Do you really think if you wanted to play a Zero Suit Samus you would have to do the Final Smash over and over. There not that stupid...The Wii Guy 15:54, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense, but let's wait until we get word from Nintendo before we do too much speculation. The world's hungriest paperweight 16:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The author of the web site [2] has fun uploading little surprises, one painful little piece at a time. He wrote "When Samus destroys her Power Suit, she’s left with the Zero Suit." ...such a clever little discovery. "It looks like you can throw the pieces of her suit that end up on the ground!" I think that Samus will be able to change back and forth, without destroying her suit. However, after she uses the Smash Ball (Zero Laser) she will be stuck as Zero Suit Samus. -Teac77 20:32, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a place for "I think..."! It's a place for what you know. Keep speculation, even in the talk page, to a minimum, please. :) Coreycubed 13:35, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Brawl Bosses

Saying that Petey Piranha is a non-playable character is merely speculation at this point. For all we know he can be playable unless someone somewhere said that you can't play as him. 70.17.0.102 19:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC) Petey does not have a profile on Dojo. 68.76.120.240 11:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC) Kinz Here is petey's piranha's "profile" on dojo!!, they say he is the first boss of adventure mode, not playable as far as we know. Unless we find out you actually can play him (her, it?) we can still list petey under NPC Bosses.→041744 21:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say I didn't see his profile. I'm just saying that nowhere does it say that that Petey isn't playable. Until its proven that you cannot play as him, listing him as an NPC boss is pure speculation. Remember we hate speculation here on wikipediaMavrickindigo 12:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

It does say, quite specifically, that he is an NPC. He may be unlockable -- such guesses themselves are speculation, quite the opposite of what you're trying to say. You can't invalidate something we know just by saying we can't prove it's not what you're saying. Coreycubed 13:40, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Pokémon Trainer once again...

Previously there was some discussion over whether or not Pokémon Trainer should be listed or if his Pokémon should be (Archive 3#Pokemon Trainer and Archive 4#Pokemon Trainer...again). Anyhow it was decided to list it as "Pokémon Trainer" but with a note (Note: I supported this decision). In these discussions I pointed out the fact that Pokémon Trainer's Final Smash whether it was a singular one or a different one for each Pokémon would be a piece of evidence for this discussion. Well with the revelation that "Pokémon Trainer" has the one final smash which gives weight to the current decision. I thought this should be brought up here due to the nature of things to come up repeatedly here. The Light6 14:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

This has already been discussed in the past, and I think we should keep the article the way it is in regards to the Pokemon Trainer. Ixistant 23:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

So do I it's just that discussions have a habit of coming back so I felt that with the info on the Final Smash being revealed that it should noted here in case the issue was to brought up again with people who argue against the current decision. The Light6 23:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Plus, it has been confirmed that for those thumbnails (the ones with character faces that would vanish in stock matches), he has his own face. Not Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Charizard. Oubliette 01:33, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Ditto

Fighter	SSB	Melee	Brawl	Series
Ditto	?	Y	?	Pokemon series
Notes: "4. In Super Smash Bros. Melee, Ditto was only selectable in Winner Out and Loser Out variations of Tournament Melee by holding L & R while selecting any character. Ditto acts as a random character select with every match choosing a randomly selected character and color. This does not work in the standard Tournament mode.

Someone brought this to my attention for possible inclusion in the character list. Ditto was technically a selectable character in Melee, see the note. The whole point to Ditto in Pokemon is that he transforms into your opponent, so I'm unsure if to count how he functions in Melee against him. (As he's not just a one time random character select, but changes for every match so has his own unique function and does have his own unique character portrait). Anyway, I'm not really good at editing and don't know how people feel about this. So I wanted to bring it to discussion. It's comparable to the character Charade in Soulcaliber II, and in that game that character is considered its own. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.187.217 (talk • contribs)

Personally I don't think we should bother, since Ditto never got an actual profile at the Melee incarnation of Dojo, and since the only evidence seen of him is his picture in this version of character select; you don't see him on-screen changing into the character during a match. Arrowned 23:26, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Comparing Ditto to Charade is a failed argument, as Charade doesn't change his appearance, save for weapons, and it has its own profile and backstory. Ditto has no such thing. Ditto's just a fancy way of showing a random character. He's not playable.Satoryu 00:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Why sould innocent people not be allowed to edit this page? If someone is doing something they should'nt do, then just have them banned. Simple as that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.145.228 (talk) 03:31, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The point in semiprotecting an article is to limit the number of people who can access a high-traffic article, since those sorts of articles are prone to vandalism and speculation as is this one. By limiting the number of people to those who actually know the rules, we won't have to worry about banning those innocent people who unintentionally cause problems. You Can't See Me! 03:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Well I don't like it.69.131.145.228 05:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)Spencer Rhodes

While I understand your feelings, I have to say, annoying a few anonymous editors who'd like to help is more preferable than having to revert 30 vandalism edits a day. Vandalism is rampant around here when the article isn't protected in any way, and it's very frustrating to have to deal with that on a nonstop basis. Arrowned 06:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure this is necesary?69.131.145.228 06:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)Spencer Rhodes

Very. Understandably you wouldn't know about the amounts of vandalism pages on Wikipedia tend to experience without having been editing articles for a while, but it can easily reach levels of insanity. Check out WP:VAN and WP:MVP for more info. Arrowned 06:31, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm the one who argued about Kirby being in the ssb brawl article, and I would like to apologise. I think I was being a bit to selfish. Now everyone who discussed it with me hates me. I just thought I'd apologise.69.131.145.228 06:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)Spencer Rhodes

I doubt "hate" is the right word. Granted, you may have annoyed some people, but one of the benefits of being an IP is that nobody will remember what you did a few days from now :) You Can't See Me! 07:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Well if the people don't hate me,(which they probaly do) they definatlly are annoyed by me. I tried to apologise to everyone,(including sukecchi and satoryu) but I should probaly just shut up for a couple of days. I probaly deserve to be blocked by someone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.145.228 (talk • contribs)

About the character table

The character table here is nice, but can it be altered to include other things, like the total number of characters per game? I'd try to do it myself, but the article is protected and such. 72.225.211.5 09:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The table is for playable characters, not anything else. If you want to read how many characters are in each game, that can be in the game's article. What else would you want to add? -Sukecchi 10:28, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Lucas from Earthbound?

I was under the impression that Earthbound was only one game in the Mother series. Wouldn't it make more sense to say he was from the Mother series? Mavrickindigo 12:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Earthbound is the name international fans know the series under. It's more recognisable this way. -Jishmeister 12:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Click the link next to Lucas' name for his series, you'll see it's the English Wikipedia page for the EarthBound / Mother series. Coreycubed 13:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Ness

I'm not sure but on Dojo, the way Sakurai said that Lucas maybe be better than Ness, looked like he was saying he is on Brawl. It looked like they were on the same game but comparing both characters. 71.101.209.139 17:47, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I know what you mean (I think). However, he didn't actually say that Ness is in Brawl. He's just (possibly) suggesting it. We shouldn't go any further into this until we have more info. The world's hungriest paperweight 22:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

It may be noteable that Lucas was orignally gonna replace Ness in melee, but his game was cancelled or delayed, so Ness was kept. This may mean that they did'nt want Ness in the games anymore, but now that Lucas's games have come out, they're gonna do what they wanted to do in melee. That's what makes me think that Ness won't return. On a personal note, I did'nt like him anyway. But who knows, I may be wrong.69.131.145.228 02:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)Spencer Rhodes

Well; if you didn't like Ness, you're probably not going to like Lucas all that much better; because apart from a different hairstyle & a slightly brighter colour palette, they don't appear to be all that different. My guess is that when Sakurai mentioned that Lucas may even surpass Ness, he was alluding to how Lucas is in all likelyhood Ness's "successor" (much like how Ike will likely be the successor to Marth & Roy). However, it is still at this point, of course; nothing but speculation. -Jishmeister 12:14, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Revolution?

Under the Brawl section, it says "Although a third Super Smash Bros. game had been announced long before E3 2006 known as Super Smash Bros. Revolution..." Wasn't that just a fan made title? Or was it officially referred to as Revolution? Dude902 18:37, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure, does anyone have a source? Also as the Wii was codenamed the Revolution it is quite possible that Brawl was originally codenamed Super Smash Bros. Revolution. However even if was codenamed that is it really even relevant to the article? The Light6 02:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

It was probably just a placeholder title. Like how Twilight Princess was just called The Legend of Zelda when first announced. But yeah, it's not relevant. Deleting it now.Satoryu 02:33, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

SmashWiki

1.SmashWiki isnt "speculative" its simply a Wikipedia dedicated to Smash Brothers.

2. Many other articles list the Wiki's for the links, as should we.

3. It DOES belong on Wikipedia, since it IS one. Atomic Religione 02:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

(Didn't see above section get made; fused my section with this one) Myself and a few other users have tried including a link to SmashWiki at the bottom of the page, but apparently some other users (or at least 041744) don't think it should be here. As per his/her request, I've brought this to the talk page, and I'll start by presenting my reasoning: The purpose of linking to SmashWiki is to guide people to a wiki far more in-depth that Wikipedia with respect to the Smash Bros. series. Lots of wikis are linked to this way. Here's just one example. The world's hungriest paperweight 02:58, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

041744's main argument seems to be that SmashWiki doesn't pass WP:EL's list of links to be avoided; links need to be decided on a case-by-case basis using those rules, and the fact that other articles may link to individual Wikias shouldn't be a factor in SmashWiki's usage here. My counter-argument is that Wikia as a whole clearly passes Avoid #13 (and SmashWiki by itself has 1500+ editors, so there's no issue with "substantial number"). However, the site does fail #2: "Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research." As a Smash Bros. fan, we can pretty much guarantee everything on that site is factually accurate, but the site has little to no citations (which an extended trip to GameFAQs would fix up). Arrowned 04:14, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as so many people oppose this I would be bitter to have the site link if this disscussion fall your way, but I guess i can just grumble in the shadows, so now here is my arguement: the website's link has been reverted many times before I have done it, the link being removed by some else cuased me to continue to remove it myself. Here, here and here is some of their speculation on Sheik and Ganondorf. Infact, this site almost seems like a game guide at some places. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 041744 (talk • contribs) 11:50, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I find Arrowned's argument more convincing than your's, 041744. I don't see anything wrong with it having game-guide parts. After all, the entire Wiki is dedicated to the series. I'll admit that rule two is a problem though, but only partially because of sourcing. After all, the best place for info on a game is the game itself, and I'm sure that's where most of their information is from. The other problem with it would be the "factually inaccurate" part, a good example being the Sheik/Ganondorf thing, but these things can be fixed (especially once Brawl comes out in a couple months). That being said, I still think that we should link to SmashWiki, but I'm not as familiar with Wikipedia's rules as most of you probably are, so all I can really do is state my opinion. The world's hungriest paperweight 22:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Of course, there are a huge amount of things that are completely wrong, and much speculation on the site. --Mr.Mario 192 22:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Same with the other Wikias ButI dont see them being removed.Atomic Religione 23:08, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think "Same with the other Wikias ButI dont see them being removed" is really a valid argument. Simply because other articles on Wikipedia aren't as good doesn't mean we should use them as an example. Also, I see links to Wikis removed all the time because they do fail criterion 13 which is simply a measure of their stability. Any Wikis that aren't removed suggest that they are stable. Axem Titanium 00:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Meh whataver I dont give a crap anymore take it out if you want. Atomic Religione 02:47, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Um A.R, I like you and all but I'm not sure that "crap" is a word that you should say. It just sounds unintellegent. Lets just stop this arguement before this gets out of hand. I know this is a talk page, but dose there really need to be an arguement on here?Green Kirby 03:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

You should read WP:CENSOR. It basically says that Wikipeida isn't censored for expletives such as crap or hell or bastard. Also, It doesn't do any good to suggest that a discussion should stop. Discussion will cease when the subject at hand has been decided upon. -Sukecchi 18:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Crap suits me fine thanks. Atomic Religione 18:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Just trying to help.Green Kirby 21:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Well would the addition of the link improve the article? If it did we could ignore the rules about external links. However if does not then the link seems unnecessary. The Light6 01:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Sonic confirmed

http://wii.ign.com/articles/826/826130p1.html please check 14:24. 189.153.74.240 05:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I just saw this as well, it looks like is confirmed unless it is an elaborate hoax or something else. I'll leave it on the page unless it is later proven false. The Light6 05:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. Lets not add him to the playable character list for now. I think I need a little more proof than that.Green Kirby 06:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, somewhat. IGN is definitely a credible site, but it has been known to jump the gun and make large claims in the past, some of which have turned out to be erroneous. I don't know that we ought to wait until Sonic gets a Dojo!! profile, but we definitely ought to wait for a second perspective from another party present at the presentation. You Can't See Me! 06:20, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

He was added on the list and I deleted him.Green Kirby 06:22, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

If the news is real then I would expect today's Dojo update to confirm it. Since the site updates in about half an hour (unless it is delayed which some character revelations have had) so we might have confirmation soon. The Light6 06:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Mabey, but for now leave it as it is. I don't know about you, but I'm gonna stay up until there is the new dojo update.Green Kirby 06:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Of course, Dojo made us wait a while for the Meta Knight and Snake updates. Jeff Silvers 06:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Dojo!! did make us wait for Meta Knight and Snake, but those two were already confirmed in a first-party video. All we have for Sonic right now is a third-party report, which was traced back to a Japanese blog of an unknown person/party. You Can't See Me! 06:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

From what I've seen, the updates are usally realeased between 2:30 and 3:00.Green Kirby 06:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

They're updated at midnight, PST. (I think thats the proper zone..It's where I am anyways)Dengarde ► Complaints 06:51, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

They update at the same time every weekday, which for me is 5pm, but regardless when it updates is not important. What is important is whether they confirm Sonic or not. The Light6 06:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

All I can say is that if Sonic is'nt confirmed tonight, I'm gonna be very dissapointed.Green Kirby 07:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Sonic confirmed on Dojo. The Light6 07:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

And the Internet collectively sighs in relief. Keep your eyes peeled for vandal spikes, guys. Coreycubed 09:34, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Super Sonic

Just to shoot down any long-winded arguments before they even arise: yes, we all saw it; but you all know as well as I do that a character as blatantly overpowerful as Super Sonic could never be anything more than a Giga Bowser-esque temporary power up brought on by a Final Smash; & therefore does not qualify as a separate playable character. Or at least that was the Wikipedia standard last time I checked. Speculation or not; it doesn't take someone over 16 (sorry Spencer & others, I couldn't resist one last jab; which is what that last one was: a playful jab, nothing more) to have the good sense to agree that I'm probably right. - Jishmeister 13:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Well I have to admit, saying that I don't know anything is really offensive.Green Kirby 17:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

There's video from E For All that shows and states Sonic's Final Smash is indeed Super Sonic. -Sukecchi 16:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Notes for Snake and Sonic

Considering that the article mentions that they are third party characters in the Brawl section, is it really necessary to mention it on the character table? It also has no impact on how they're used when fighting. It seems like a waste of space to me.Satoryu 20:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

It weren't necessary, so I removed it. Dengarde ► Complaints 20:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Thought so.Satoryu 20:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

About Sonic and Snake names

In the list of playable characters, shouldn't Snake and Sonic be named as their full names (Solid Snake and Sonic the Hedgehog, respectively)? At least, in the case of Snake, there are many Snakes in the Metal Gear series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.40.8.42 (talk) 00:58, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that they should go by Sonic and Snake, because that's what they're called in the game. It's like how Princess Peach and Princess Zelda were changed to Zelda and Peach because of what they are called in the Smash Bros series, not what they're called in other games. Depressio 01:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Not only that, but Snake is never actually referred to on the site as 'Solid' (except in the original video; but that's, by now; too out of date to count); probably done on purpose to keep it canonically ambiguous (like how the Fire Emblem: Castle Siege stage is from no specific game in the series). - Jishmeister 14:31, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Sonic Snake and Lucas notes

They deserve notes because they were planned to be in Melee. [3] [4] and [5] Claycrow 18:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

That's not relevant. 71.36.113.216 22:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

How so?Claycrow 23:54, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Because it's not appropriate for a character table. Leave it in a development section. Axem Titanium 00:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Captain Falcon Confirmed?

There's a third check mark by his name but there isn't any evidence of him being in there. Anonymous/new users can't edit the page so could someone fix that? 71.36.113.216 22:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

It's already been fixed. Arrowned 23:15, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Lyndis Confirmed

Lyndis (From Fire Emblem) appears in this trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_8niD-lSWo (At about 00:19) I would venture to guess she is a playable character, could someone add her to to list (Even if just as a question mark)?

Character info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndis#Lyndis

70.143.91.252 03:46, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

She is an assist trophy, not playable. Depressio 03:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Mmm, where did you get that data? Snarkeroid 03:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

She is an assist trophy, not playable. Dengarde ► Complaints 04:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Playable Characters in Brawl

Who has a good chance for being in Brawl Princess Daisy (Mario Series), Amy Rose (Sonic The Hedgehog Series) or Lilina from the Fire Emblem Series? 68.162.108.99 22:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)