Talk:American Civil War

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wondering

i was just wondering but if other languages have feature article on THIS article why dont we?--71.141.231.144 (talk) 02:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Photo of the supposed dead Union Soldier at Petersburg.

Something is wrong with the picture of the dead Union Soldier at Petersburg. It is in the "End of the War" section of the article. If you look at this picture, you can clearly see the sponge for cooling off the inside of a cannon after it has been fired. However, if you click on the photographer's name under the caption (Thomas C. Roche), the page it takes you to has a photograph that is identical except for the missing sponge. The dead soldier's arm is arranged exactly the same way in both pictures, the same pile of rocks is visible in both, the blood on his face is dried in the exact same pattern in both, and he has the same bag in the same position in both. Now, the dissimilarities are less noticeable with the exception of the addition of the sponge. The crease on the bag under his left shoulder is different, the distance of the photograph is different, and that's about it. If you can't see the exact alikeness from what I just described above, take a look at this: the bag on his right has a flap that is curled up the exact same way in both pictures; the blood on his chin is the same amount in the same spot; the leather strap across his shoulder is cracked in the same place; the way his jacket is arranged at his midsection with the large, triangular flat spot is the same in both pictures. This may be just a coincidence but I ate someone photoshopped this picture and either put in the sponge or removed it. Anyone agree or disagree? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ekirchubel (talk • contribs) 23:10, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

hahaha such a good way to spend a thursday night ^_^ is is possible that the photographer took the first picture then made some changes and took the second? Xaedra (talk) 15:06, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Corwin Amendment

I have added a citation to the Corwin Amendment. Since the Crittenden Compromise is mentioned I felt the Corwin Amendment should be as well, especially since the Corwin Amendment was passed by the Congress (although not even close to be ratified by the States). --SMP0328 (talk) 02:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC) yay

Fandom

Please don't be offended. I came to this article looking for WP's article on Civil War "fandom", that is recreators, collectors, amatuer historians, etc. I expected to find at least a "see other" about this here. Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks. Redddogg (talk) 22:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

You could start at American Civil War reenactment. Incidentally, I almost always use Google to find Wikipedia articles (because the WP search engine is rather finicky sometimes). Just include "wiki" in your search string and it almost always works. Hal Jespersen (talk) 16:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Redddogg (talk) 01:45, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Border States

After discussions with User:GordonUS (see his talk page and my talk page) over his changes, I have rewritten the short paragraph on West Virginia to a two sentence summary stating the basic facts. GordonUS was concerned with the readability of the section as it existed, and I was concerned with the POV -- there were criticisms on the popular support and legality from a CSA perspective, but nothing from the Unionist perspective. The alternatives were either to expand the section to represent both POVs or reduce it to present neither POV. Readers interested on the details and arguments about legality, popular support, etc. can follow the reference to the main article Border states (Civil War)#West Virginia. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 03:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC

• • Tom, the change you made is not good. Although I know you believe the change is non-POV, it is very incorrect. It is actually heavily skewed to the Unionist outcome and misrepresents the sentiments of thepeople in much of West Virginia. Please re-write it so that is is at least fair, and not a winner-take-all scenario. It should only take a few sentences. Thanks, Dubyavee (talk) 04:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

• Tom, I went ahead and added the two sentences, both are documented, and I think it gives a balance to WV in the history of the Civil War.Dubyavee (talk) 07:09, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Your sentences are documented, but they don't tell the entire story. Here is what you say, "Much of what was to become West Virginia however opposed the Unionist government in Wheeling, about half of West Virginia's soldiers were Confederate." However the fact is that population wise the larger segment had opposed secession. After deleting your sentences, Ithought better of it and decided to add material back with an actual vote count on the secession referendumand a better breakdown of the counties. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 13:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

• Tom, thanks for the new edit. I wouldn't depend on the Secession vote as an indicator of sentiment in WV, it was as much a vote for the status-quo as it was for the Union. If the anti-Secession vote had been solid, there would not have been a 50% split in Union/Confederate soldiers, the highest among the border states, which ran about 70/30. Also Wheeling would have had a much easier time organizing the counties. A number of those which had voted heavily against Secession proved to be intractable once the war started. This also helps explain why, once full voting rights were restored in 1871, West Virginians voted to destroy the Wheeling Constitution. Dubyavee (talk) 06:10, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Wording?

Anyone else thinks this line just sounds kind of goofy "Deep South states with the most slavery seceded first,"? Shouldn't it just read "The states with the largest slave populations seceded first,"? SiberioS (talk) 05:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

That sounds fine, except that non-Americans might not know that the deep South is what is referred to.Jimmuldrow (talk) 06:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

How about: "The states of the so-called "Deep South", which had the largest slave populations, were the first to secede."? Redddogg (talk) 07:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the line looks goofy (if one is to ignore the first sentence connected via semicolon which is designed to provide context for the second sentence). I disagree with the use of "so-called". In printed matter, this might be more appropriate, but since Deep South can be wikilinked, the idiom is excess styling. IMHO, the only change necessary is the wikilink. BusterD (talk) 13:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Justification

Could someone add a section with the reasons why the civil war was justified? I looked also in the List_of_American_Civil_War_topics and didn't see such a page. The declaration of independence in Kosovo has made me wonder why the North was justified in preventing the South from seceding. I came to Wikipedia for the answer, like I do for everything, and haven't found it. ~Kevin 87.110.59.120 (talk) 19:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

And you're not likely to. The winner gets to write history. Any attempt to word the South as anything other than the great Satan gets deleted or reworded. You can check the edit logs of the various Civil War related articles to see what I mean. If you really want to make a comparison on Kosovo's UDI, look up Rhodesia's UDI.Sf46 (talk) 21:09, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Except that, in this case, the victor hasn't. One look at the numerous Confederate monuments, the history of Lost Cause books, movies, and assorted memorabilia, as well as the invoking of the Confederacy and Southern white supremacy during the Civil Rights movement, and you realize that the Union might have won the war, but it certainly seemed to have lost the ideological fight. In fact, the overturning of the Reconstructions advancements in civil rights, set the stage for Plessy v. Ferguson, the enactment of Jim Crow laws, and a half century of overt and explicit discrimination.

I am also amused by your referencing of Rhodesia, a country so explicitly racist and white supremacist, that even apartheid-era South Africa had a hard time supporting it. Like the Confederacy, Rhodesia's quixotic attempt to form a country vested almost entirely in the hands of whites, whilst the majority of the population was black (or in the case of the South, almost half black), was a failure internationally, and very few states recognized it. The various economic sanctions put upon the country crippled it, and its doubtful it would have held on as long as it had without support from South Africa. If you're going to be making an argument that the Confederacy wasn't a bunch of racist crackpots, I suggest you don't start out comparing it to one of the worst offenders the 20th century had ever seen. SiberioS (talk) 00:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Rhodesia being racist is merely your point of view, not mine. Sf46 (talk) 00:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

This has to be the loopiest response ever. Of COURSE it was racist. A government that did not recognize nor allow fundamental political participation by a large segment of the population based on the color of their skin is in every sense of the word racist. Whether or not being racist is a bad thing, now THAT is a matter of opinion. SiberioS (talk) 00:20, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Siberio I'm not going to debate you, because I understand the reality that you will NOT sway my point of view and that I will NOT sway yours. I also understand that there ARE points of view other than my own. I don't claim for my point of view to be universally regarded as the best one or the only right one. Perhaps you should consider that yours is not necassarily the only one or the only right one. Sf46 (talk) 01:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not saying it is. But as to whether or not the editing of the Civil War articles are edited in such a way as to paint the Confederacy in a bad light, this is flatly untrue. For some people, both at the time of the war, and even now, the ideas and rhetoric on racial relations, slavery, and other things that the Confederate government and its prominent officials and supporters held, were neither wrong nor bad. Some people, then, and now, hold that they were. But simply DOCUMENTING these beliefs is not attempting to inject an opinion, or a bias, or anything else. The reality is, however, that many individuals, both on Wikipedia and off, are consciously attempting to rewrite the history so that these positions, policies, and practices simply don't show up. And thats ridiculous. The statements made about the Confederacy are factual, backed up rigorously by sources, and avoid making sermons or interjecting as to whether or not these policies and practices were bad. The fact that many view them as such, of their own independent reasoning, is something you will have to bring up with them.SiberioS (talk) 07:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

WBTS euphemism

I am surprised that a euphemism is being passed off as a more valid name than that used for the Official Records: "War of the Rebellion." "War Between the States" does not even match the CSA Congress declaration: "War between the Confederate States of America and the United States of America." That is not the same as a war between states, it is claim of a state of war between nations. The CSA was claiming it was an independent nation--therefore there could be no "War Between the States" unless in fact they were not yet a nation and instead were in rebellion. (This creates a nasty states rights quandary.) The initial attack by the CSA was not against a state, but against the forces and property of the United States government. The result was a declaration of an insurrection. While the WBTS has become an accepted euphemism, it is in essence POV'ish. "War of the Rebellion" is certainly no more POV'ish and was the name chosen for the official documentation of the conflict. It is at least based upon the legalities of how the war was prosecuted by the Federal government, while the WBTS name is self-conflicting. If the name used for the Official Records is purged as POV'ish then WBTS should certainly go, leaving only the "other names" link. Red Harvest (talk) 22:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Unnotable page

This wasn't a real war, some fighting between people on an unnotable island full of outcasts from Europe should not have an encyclopedia page about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.229.70 (talk) 01:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Get back on your meds, fella. Sf46 (talk) 02:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

school project

i am a 14 year old girl and i would like some advice about how to write descriptively about a northern lady during the civil war if you have and information to give me please please notify me on the message board 65.190.176.20 (talk) 20:49, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Weapons

A section on the types of weapons used during the war would be very useful. 24.252.195.3 (talk) 15:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)