Talk:Doctor Eggman

Averting an Eggman/Robotnik revert war

It has become absolutely clear that there are major disagreements over the naming of Eggman/Robotnik. I hope we can all agree on a consensus that reflects the 'Ivo Robotnickists and the Eggmanists'. Ryu and Flint please do tone things down. It is clear that some will never agree. Let's get a middle ground decided. Personally I would say the current article. We should then all police it reverting ANY naming changes and NOT posting any ourselves for the forseeable future. A revert war helps nobody --GemmaDarkmoon (talk) 01:18, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Dr Ivo Robotnik or Dr Eggman

The charicter's name is Dr Ivo Robotnik. I have been a fan of Sonic right since the begining and everything I know tells me his name is Robotnik. Sonic Adventure DX makes it clear Eggman is a nickname. I feel we should stick to the name sega used or maybe even create two seperate pages with one calling him Robotnik and the other Eggman. I think it's a disrespect to the roots of the series not to brush over the name of Robotnik with Eggman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Error96 (talk • contribs) 18:20, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, there's more to it. In Japan, his names always been Dr. Eggman. Because of english localization, Sega of USA changed his name to Dr. Ivo Robotnik. In Sonic Adventure, when Sega started making Sonic games in 3D, Sega had to choose between using the Sonic US storyline or Sonic JP story. Ultimately, they chose Japan. So, in Sonic Adventure, they chose to make his real name Ivo Robotnik because of him having a 'full name'. Since then, they've used Eggman as his primary name in it's sequels. According to Wikipedia:Naming Convention, we have to use the most common name of the character. That name is obviously Eggman. So, "Doctor Eggman" will remain. --Ryu-chan (Talk | Contributions) 19:20, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I disagree completely with Ryan. The name Doctor Robotnik was the main used name in the USA and UK and even the creators say Eggman is a nickname. I think Dr Ivo Robotnik is the most common when considering the last ten years and the correct name to use. Maybe a compromise of Dr Ivo 'Eggman' Robotnik would be best. --GemmaDarkmoon (talk) 20:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Dr 'Eggman' Robotnick is a fair compromise so hope everyone can agree to leave the article as it is. It's gets rid of confusion by the name switching between Eggman and Robotnik in the related media like TV programmes. Switching all to one would be inappropriate in these sections so the format we have now seems to work. Hope that is okay with everyone --GemmaDarkmoon (talk) 20:24, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

There had been a consensus in place for some time to give both their credit at the top (article address is under Dr. Eggman as per Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(common_names), above pic says what was written in the character's Sonic X bio card - "Dr. Eggman (Robotnik)", below pic was full Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik, and text said some form of "Dr. Ivo Robotnik also known as Dr. Eggman", while the rest of article was Eggman per the naming conventions common name rule with exceptions for series (like the 3 DiC cartoons) where the character was never called Eggman) CIGraphix (talk) 20:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

The common name theory should put his name as Dr Robotnik as on average he has been called Robotnik more than Eggman. The guys name is Dr Ivo ROBOTNIK. The article states his real name is Robotnik and one of the Sonic games is called 'Dr Robotnik's mean bean machine'. --RoseKcat (talk) 21:33, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Just to add to that try google searching the two names. Robotnik has twice as many entrys and Doctor Eggman searching gives the question do you mean Doctor Robotnik at the top of the google search page --RoseKcat (talk) 22:22, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Google and other search engines are not considered reliable sources. Sega owns the property and has obviously decided to make Eggman the common name (based on the last nearly 10 years of the dominance of the Eggman name in all languages as opposed to the use of the Robotnik name in the English versions only for the around 7 years before that). The existing consensus (as I described above) gives both names due credit and I believe it should remain. CIGraphix (talk) 22:48, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree and think both names should remain too. I don't think either the Robotnik name or the Eggman name should be downgraded cos of naming rules. To me the Charicter will always be called Robotnik as that's the name he always did have in my region. Others may feel same about Eggman. I think the article as it is now works well. It represents both views. --Error96 (talk) 23:24, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Over 10 years of being the biggest Sonic fan ever, having collected every Sonic game, Comic, Annual, Toy, Plush etc I should know everything Sonic. Yet two major charicters Metalix and Robotnik people won't let me call them their 'real' names primarily. The backstory I am cerain of others don't believe. I think the Kintobor backstory should be here but accept others don't. I guess I will leave you in peace before months of revert waring start.--Error96 (talk) 00:58, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The things you posted were totally correct for the UK region though it seems clear other regions may have different stories. People like Cigraphix just seem to be trying to be difficult. The metal Sonic is commonly refered to as Metallix in our region and as for Robotnik/Eggman. His true name is Ivo Robotnik in the UK with Eggman a nickname. Indeed the UK theory may not win out here but I don't want people thinking their view isn't vallid. The UK Sonic story is a valid story. I go with it and certain people should stop trying to put you down over it. You can be proud of your region's story and believe in it even if others here and people in other regions do not. Try leaving here and seting up a fansite of something then you can state all the UK story as fact. --RoseKcat (talk) 08:49, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not trying to be difficult, please do not assume bad faith on my part. In the past, I have defended both 'Robotnik' and 'Ivo' from being turned into a quick paragraph saying they were used but are not anymore. Also, it is not 'correct to different regions' but it is correct to different 'Sonic universes.' There is Fleetway's Sonic the Comic universe, which is where the Ovi Kintobor and Metallix stuff come from, there is DiC's Sonic the Hedgehog tv show & the Archie Sonic the Hedgehog comics based on it where the character was originally Julian or Julian Kintobor (and before the Archie comics became based on the tv show there was a teaser in one issue that Sonic and Robotnik were step brothers), and then there are the different universes of the video games, Sonic X, the Sonic the Hedgehog: The Movie OVA, and both DiC's other TV shows Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic Underground where Eggman's background is not developed and the name 'Kintobor' is never mentioned.

As Cigraphix said, Sega owns the property of Sonic. Sega chose Eggman as his main name. This is shown in the fact that in speaking games Doctor Robotnik is only said in one game. Eggman's the most common name. I'm pretty sure younger Sonic fans wouldn't know his name is Doctor Robotnik unless they played Adventure, saw the cartoons, or read the comic (where also, he's referred to as Eggman more than Ivo Robotnik). As I said before, the name thing was due to Sega trying not to confuse fans since they were making a Sonic game talk. The name Doctor Robotnik is pretty much dead now that Sega changed his name (and I mean dead in continuity, not among fans). --Ryu-chan (Talk | Contributions) 17:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it dead in continuity; since it is reaffirmed in Gerald & Maria Robotnik,"Robotnik Corp" in Sonic Riders, and Eggman's Sonic X bio card which said "Dr. Eggman (Robotnik)"- but it is much less prominent. CIGraphix (talk) 17:57, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I was referring to Eggman referring to himself as Doctor Robotnik or any other characters. Not Maria/Gerald Robotnik, Robotnik Corp, etc... --Ryu-chan (Talk | Contributions) 18:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I think Ryu is absolutely wrong with what he put. The name Dr Ivo Robotnik is used so incredibly much more than the name Eggman amongst Sonic fans in the western world. Therefore I think it is not at all a dead name and should be represented fully on this page. All the people I know and all fans on forums I go on refer to him almost 100% as Dr Robotnik even in the new games. The consensus seems to be to keep a strong prevalence of the Robotnik name on this page. I hope you can stick to that consensus Ryu and avoid what would likely become revert warring --Flint melody (talk) 00:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I said dead in continuity, not among fans. This statement means that within the games (other than Sonic Adventure), he's not refered to as Doctor Robotnik. And there's nothing wrong about my statements. Everyone knows that his name is Doctor Ivo Robotnik. Sega themselves chose to call him Doctor Eggman to follow the story of the Japanese games (due to localization of earlier games, the stories vary). To my knowledge, the only source that uses Doctor Robotnik is Sonic the Hedgehog. The forums I go to refer to him simply as Eggman because they don't much care for localization. The main source for Sonic anything are the games and the games refer to him as Eggman alot more than Robotnik. Even in the newer games, everyone refers to him as Eggman. --Ryu-chan (Talk | Contributions) 19:09, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Say that to the people who wrote the Sonic Unleashed western manual. Beyond that, eesh! 83.104.34.212 (talk) 21:36, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Can't we all just agree the charicter has two very commonly used names and that both have a major place in this article. It's clear an attempt to get rid of either name will result in revert war from one side so can't we all just accept that both have a place here --GemmaDarkmoon (talk) 01:04, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

We could push this to GA status easily

Eggman, Robotnik or whatever you wanna call the guy has a lot of info about him that can be cited and should be doable for a GA article before the DVD submission deadline.

• The creations section needs to be trimmed back and merged into a trimmed In video games section.
• Characteristics needs to discuss his look and features in a citable manner. Look at Master Chief (Halo) for some ideas on how to write it.
• A reception section needs to be developed. To that end I propose posting links of reception in third party media that can be cited here and working out a solid section from there.
• In other media needs to be condensed and cleaned up. Take a look at how Superman handles the subsection.
• Merchandise and promotion needs to be cited. That's a given. So what was there to promote the character?

So who's with me?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:40, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Ivo?

So, I've been thinking, is the first name "Ivo" outdated information?

Let's consider the facts, in rough order...

- The manual for the American Sonic the Hedgehog calls him Dr. Ivo Robotnik. Ivo quickly vanishes from all official first-party material.

- The Japanese and Western games keep calling him different names ("Eggman" and "Robotnik"), with few hints of the other occasionally (named "EGGMAN" on Wing Fortress in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Sonic & Tails 2's Robotnik Winter Zone) all the way into Sonic Adventure International, where most language tracks besides the original Japanese have him use Robotnik as his real name and Eggman as the name known by Sonic and his friends (presumeably an insult). He also calls his dream city "Eggmanland" rather than "Robotnikland" in the Japanese version, although now that ambition seems to extend to the world, unless I'm mistaken.

- The sequel, Sonic Adventure 2, has him call himself Eggman, but there are characters related to him with the last name "Robotnik", and his background on a TV at once point calls it the Robotnik Empire rather than the Eggman Empire. After this point, Eggman is considered an alias, and the real name "Robotnik" is rarely mentioned.

- To address the issue, Yuji Naka has been quoted in saying that Robotnik is Eggman's real name, and that Eggman is a common nickname. He thought that perhaps it was even Sonic that came up with the name in the first place, and that he wouldn't be too surprised if Sonic used the name out of affection rather than as a true insult (which I suppose is true in Sonic Adventure, since if he's idle at the Mystic Ruins Base, he'll seriously call him "Robotnik" for once).

- The Japanese profile on the official Sonic Channel website claims that Dr. Eggman's real name is unknown.

- In Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, for the first time in a long while, Eggman calls himself Dr. Robotnik every once in a while. In fact, the Codex in the game calls him Dr. "Eggman" Robotnik, with no mention of a first name.

See what I'm getting at? My point is, while his real last name may be Robotnik, his first name was lost long ago, thus why his real full name isn't determined on Sonic Channel. Sure, there may be some licensed, non-Sega publications that still refer to him as Ivo (Archie's adaptation of Sonic and the Secret Rings comes to mind), but it's never direct Sega material since the name's first appearance that suggests his first name wasn't merely fabricated by the early localization team. So, we should really eliminate his first name since it's officially a mystery, and mention it in passing where his name confusion comes into play. It's simply no longer in effect. 156.12.150.206 (talk) 17:08, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, the name "Ivo" should be kept for several reasons:

1 it has historical context;

2 no reliable source (that I know of) has ever flatly addressed the issue of "Ivo" in relation to the games so calling it outdated is original research (Sonic Channel seems to include his last name as being unknown as well, contradicting other bios, interviews, and game scripts that say it is "Robotnik" - if written carefully, this can be noted as well if it isn't already);

3 this article is not just about the video game version of the character, besides being used in Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, the Archie comic Sonic the Hedgehog also features the name "Ivo" in its current material. CIGraphix (talk) 17:39, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, it does have historical context, but that's exactly why I thought it should be mentioned in the article rather than as part of his full name. As for any reliable source ever dismissing Ivo, nothing has ever really reinforced it, either - it's only the "Robotnik" part that's ever mentioned. Yuji Naka has said that Robotnik is his real name, but didn't say Ivo Robotnik was... And, aside from that interview, the Japanese continuity doesn't really reinforce the name outside of Sonic Adventure 2, so it would make sense if Sonic Channel listed his real name as unknown (in fact, in Sonic Adventure 2, he still doesn't call himself a Robotnik, he just happened to be related to people with that last name, so it's still possible for his real name to be completely unknown in the Japanese continuity). Lastly, the bulk of the article is about the game version of Eggman - Ivo remains true to his AoStH persona, just like Maurice (or whatever) doesn't apply to Sonic's real name in the games. 156.12.150.206 (talk) 16:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Name is not outdated. It definitely should, at least, have a mention in the article. --158.83.184.88 (talk) 20:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't Eggman's first name (Ivo) used in the Sonic Advance 2/3 manual? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.116.239.252 (talk) 04:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I completely disagree with the dropping of Ivo. The charicter's correct name is Doctor Ivo Robotnik so both Ivo and Robotnik should stay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Error96 (talk • contribs) 18:11, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Ivo hasn't been mentioned at all recently, and there's no evidence that it's his real name.74.76.44.179 (talk) 13:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes it's his first name, you want a recent reference? I have PSP Genesis collection and there on Sonic 1 Virtual Manual-thingie his name is mentioned as - Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik. You can go check that, if you want 82.154.180.45 (talk) 18:08, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Julian

When I was growing up, I had (and still have) the Genesis games, and they referred to him as Julian Robotnik in America. There's not mention of this. -- 24.28.247.222 (talk) 03:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Julian was only mentioned in the cartoon (and BD's), in games his first name is Ivo. 82.155.204.77 (talk) 14:51, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Why No Pingas?

I'm a little curious as to why the word "PINGAS" redirects here and is then not mentioned in the article.

140.228.159.206 (talk) 04:21, 17 November 2008 (UTC)Matt

Kintobor origin and Metallix name

The Robotnik origin story about Kintobor undergoing the transformation into Robotnik and Metal Sonic's other name, Metallix, are canon only to Sonic the Comic, it should not be placed anywhere else in the article like it is universially canon to the whole franchise (the game version, the Sonic X version, and 2 DiC cartoon versions have unknown backstories, Archie/SatAm Robotnik was always evil and was originally "Julian Kintobor" which contradicts Sonic the Comic completely - Metal Sonic has never been called "Metallix" outside Sonic the Comic) CIGraphix (talk) 21:24, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I 100% believe the story decribed in the Official Sonic The Comic is the true backstory of Sonic. I had not before now heard of any evidence to contradict that story so that was why I decided to add it in. Didn't know it would provoke a negative responce.

I think that wording like (also known as Metallix) for the robot you call 'metal sonic' would work and maybe put the Ovi Kintobor tale as a suggested theory on the backstory. --Error96 (talk) 23:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I have never read the comic but I know all about the Kintobor story and the Metallix name for metal Sonic. I presumed they were common knowledge too. There is nothing with the story error96 put and think the critisms of it was unessisarily harsh. Maybe though these tales are only prominant in the UK and not elsewhere. --RoseKcat (talk) 08:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The other media article merge

I'm objecting to that unless someone's got a discussion to point to. That merge pretty much laid waste to this article, and was a really bad call in the manner it was done. On a different note, added a bit of reception from GameDaily.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:35, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Japanese spelling of Robotnik

As it is my understanding that in no Japanese version Sonic game is he ever called Robotnik, why does Robotnik get a Japanese spelling? If this is indeed the case, the Japanese spelling should be removed as OR. Yuji Naka addressing the name issue once doesn't count.--Atlan (talk) 12:08, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if there's any game using the name "Dr. Robotnik" for this character in Japanese, but Sonic Adventure 2 mentions Gerald Robotnik (ジラルド・ロボトニック, Jirarudo Robotonikku). Sega's official websites for Sonic Mega Collection[1][2] mention the game Dr. Eggman's Mean Bean Machine (ドクターエッグマンのミーンビーンマシーン, Dokutā Egguman no mīn bīn mashīn), but the page about this particular game[3] writes that 'at this point, [he] was called "Doctor Robotnik" overseas' (この頃、海外では“ドクターロボトニック”と呼ばれていた, Kono goro, kaigai de wa 'Dokutā Robotonikku' to yobarete ita). I can't think of any other place where I have seen the name "Dr. Robotnik" in Japanese, but I haven't played some of the more recent games. (212.247.11.156 (talk) 14:18, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

Maybe the Japanese spelling of "Robotnik" should be removed because of WP:NOTDICDEF? This character was created in Japan, and his Japanese name is "Doctor Eggman", so it makes sense to write "Doctor Eggman" in Japanese. On the other hand, since the name "Robotnik" was invented in the United States (I guess), maybe it makes less sense to write the name "Robotnik" with Japanese characters. Compare with the articles about Kinopio and Princess Toadstool, where the Japanese names (Kinopio and Peach) are written in Japanese characters, while the Western names (Toad and Toadstool) only are written in Roman letters. (212.247.11.156 (talk) 21:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC))

Anyone care updating the image to the current game?

One that's not a spinoff? It's on the official site now. 156.12.150.206 (talk) 21:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

categories

I don't think fictional cyborgs, fictonal robots, or robot supervillians is needed. His inventions are robots, but he's not. Solar Flute (talk) 18:53, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Fixed.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge pages

Alternate versions of Doctor Eggman should be merged into this page per WP:FAN. I don't see why the antagonist of a single series needs an entire three pages detailing his exploits in various media. While you're at it, there are a heck of a lot of cruft articles that need to be merged into List of characters in Sonic the Comic. I'm just putting that out there, since people are probably too uninterested to deal with it.--_ZXCVBNM 23:31, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd suggest pointing it to the In other media article instead, as such a merge would probably bloat this one with a lot of unnecessary rubbish. I've been prodding this article every once in awhile to try and improve it, though it seems I'm pretty much the only one still doing so...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:49, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I suppose that it would be better merged into the "In other media" Article....which I'm not sure is necessary, but whatever.--_ZXCVBNM 19:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Creations section

This section dissappeared after the edit [4], by Kung Fu man, with the reasoning "I'm cutting out the whole creation's section. It's kinda cruft-y and can be covered better in the article's body as a smaller section."

The Problem is that several other Sonic Articles pointed to that section to cover Egg-O-Matic and EggMobile devices, which now appear no-where on Wikipedia. I Discovered it when I wanted to Link the Sonic 3 article back to it. It's no no-where on the pagfe, and the E-Series article doesn't cover it.

I think that section should still be here - it's information that's important to his Modus operandi, and the only place I can see to add it where it makes sense.

Prehaps going back to an older version - such as [5] Would be useful - it's fairly concise (Aside from possibly the metal sonic part), and covers all the basics.

Thoughts and feelings? 81.149.182.210 (talk) 02:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The problem is it's a bunch of information that either shouldn't be here in this article or should be summarized. All the old section consisted of was in-universe content that helps hold the article back.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

we have an article on Robotnik that barly mentions his Robots (One sentence, saying he's good at robotics) - for such an important part of the chrachter and the games, it really doesn't feel like enough. I feel that this content does have a place on Wikipedia (It's hardly down to the trivial level), but I'm not sure where and how.

BTW, here's the section I was planning on linking from: [[6]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.149.182.210 (talk) 04:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Title

Why is the title of the talk page Talk:Doctor Ivo Eggman Robotnik while the article itself is called Doctor Eggman?

My guess is an unagreed change by some editor. Has been reverted. a little insignificant (talk) 03:04, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Beatles

I am the Walrus features a line saying "they are the eggman, I am the walrus." Seeing as the Beatles came WAAYY before video games, do you think that this character's name was inspired by the song at all?