Talk:Pierogi

Names

Let's list the names in all the languages. Please add what you know.

table

master table of East European dumplings

Language	singular	plural	diminutive plural	boiled plural	ears
Belarusian	пiрог, pirog	пiрагi, pirahi	пiражкi, pirazhki	варэнiкi, vareniki
Czech
Latvian	pīrāgs	pīrāgi	pīrādziņi	vareņiki	pelmeņi
Polish	pieróg	pierogi	pierożki	pierogi	uszka
Russian	пирог, pirog	пироги, pirogi	пирожки, pirozhki	вареники, vareniki	пельмени, piel'meni
Slovak	pirohy
Ukrainian	пиріг, pyrih	пироги, pyrohy	пиріжки, pyrizhky	вареники, varenyky	(в)ушка, (v)ushka

name talk

Hmmm, do вареники also fit in this table? [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 21:58, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

They do if they're served up with plenty of shkvarky and sour cream! Anyone feel like merging Varenyky and Vareniki? Should Plautdietsch be added to the table? —Michael Z. 22:49, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)

Do they have their p-dumplings as well? Also, I was also thinking of adding the column for the tortellini-shaped thingies (uszka, pielmieni and such). I believe they fit into the same category, although adding this column would probably lead us to prepare a list of all the dumplings in the world... [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 00:27, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Mennonites in Manitoba make "vreneki" and "pryshki" (I'll find out how to spell that, although I understand Plautdietsch is only spoken). This stuff is so well known in these parts, that Hong Kong-style dim sum houses in Winnipeg describe some of their dishes as "Chinese perogies" on the menu.

They probably learned this from those "Prairie Ukrainians". See Glendon, Alberta in the article.Pustelnik 22:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

My Ukrainian mother only makes vushka (or ushka) with mushrooms to put into the Christmas borshch. Who else makes them?

Let's stick to the ones of East European origin here for now, but maybe dumplings could use a list of links.

—Michael Z. 01:50, 2004 Oct 28 (UTC)

Who makes them? I do! [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 06:03, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Czechs and slovaks don't have a word for them because they don't eat them. I tried to find pierogies in the czech republic for a whole near with no success. I'm removing references to czechs and slovaks from the article. -- TheMightyQuill 21:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

No way, I was in Slovakia half a year ago, I ate pierogi... I don't remember name of them exactly, it was something like "pirohy", but it could be something like "kluski", but i have eaten them in restaurant, and i'm sure that there were pierogi :) Piotrek91 09:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

pyrohi is the czech term i think. 130.179.113.37 20:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

-- Its called Pirohy in Slovak and boy you could not been more wrong about Slovaks not eating them. Mainly popular in eastern parts of Slovakia and for a very long time! Stonufka 12:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

is this the same? regional variation and identification

Latvia

I entered correct latvian names, but I`m not sure for last two - I don`t think that there is such latvian food, so I added names of russian foods popular in Latvia. Also I`m suspicios that this food maybe isn`t latvaian food called pīrāgi, but other food that has similar name in other languages, because picture in article surely shows something else and dumpling also is something else, please look here http://elviss.bol.ucla.edu/piragi/ or search in google image search for piragi and make sure that it is same food -- Xil - talk 04:06, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

That looks more like the the Russian pirozhki. Rmhermen 03:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Pīrāgi is something like bread with meat, made out of leaven dough. These in pictures look like type of ordinary pelmeni. That, fact that pīrāgi are not served with soup and also fact that Latvian dumplings, called klimpas are served in soup made me thought that maybe you are mistaking pie for dumpling -- Xil/talk 23:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Russian Pirozhki

In my mind, this Russian bun is completely different, not a dumpling at all, as are all the other variants discussed here. I think it should have its own article, and this pierogi article should say something like "not to be confused with Russian pirozhki".--BillFlis 01:34, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Agree, would clear up much confustion. Kevlar67 (talk) 02:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

yeah, I was looking for an article on the filled food item more akin to a savory filled doughnut...in San Francisco, they are always

deep-fried, but in other places like Los Angeles (where I am now), it's more like pastry dough,baked. I was wondering what the regional origins of the frying vs. baking were.76.175.171.25 (talk) 17:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Morningwindow

Poland

Quark (food) filling

Pierogi in Poland contain mainly quark, rather than cheese. The article Cheese doesn't mention Quark (food). I would replace cheese by quark in "Pierogi", is it O.K.? (unsigned)

Sure! Though citations are cool, if you can add some... - Akb4 22:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Polish Leniwe pierogi

Leniwe pierogi in Poland aren't pierogi. Could someone explain it in the article? Xx236 13:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Here you have a photo of pierogi leniwe --> Leniwe pierogi. Why they are so called - I don't know ;) They are more similar to kopytka. Pierogi leniwe means lazy pierogi. Piotrek91 21:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Taxonomy

Since we at this classification thing, I suggest to put a complete taxonomy in place first; kinda sorta like in phonetics for consonants. Let's classify dough by a reasoable set of traits and make a really big table. The first step is to define the set of significant traits. For starters:

• Type of flour
• Type of dough/batter
• Type of filling
• Way of filling
  • Inmixed
  • Wrapped
    • Semi-wrapped
    • Way of wrapping (folded/rolled/squeezed, etc.)
  • On top
  • Layered
• Shape
• Size
• Treatment/preparation
• Consumption
• Health risks
• ...

Mikkalai 07:23, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

shape

the article says crescent shaped, but really they are more or less semi-circular in my experience. Chinese dumplings often seem crescent shaped, but pierogi that I've had are made by folding a circle in half over the filling. - Akb4 22:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

-- Flat dough is cut circular shape using a cup or glass and after filling is added its folded over to enclose the whole thing and than droped in to boiling water. Stonufka 12:47, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Pyrohy

In this article, Ukrainian cuisine, it states that pyrohy is different than the definition of perogies in this article. It seems to be a dessert type dumpling, and varenyky seems to be what this article describes. Pyrohy, however, forwards to this page. Varenyky does not. --Kmsiever 04:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

See below, it's a Canadian Ukrainian vs. Standard Ukrainian thing. Kevlar67 (talk) 01:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Opening paragraph

The first sentence says they are "Ukrainian filled dumplings." How exactly are they Ukrainian if just below it says that their origin is untraceable? This seems very POV to me seeing as this is a common food in many other European countries. JRWalko 20:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

grammars will being incorrects?

By the 1960s, pierogi were a common supermarket item in the frozen food aisles in parts of the United States and Canada. Pierogis maintain their place in the grocery aisles to this day.

someone who understands english please tell me what form is correct... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 159.250.23.2 (talk) 12:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

Undid revision 157778056 by 75.108.24.83

I reverted the page back to its prior incarnation to get rid of the apparent clamor about pirogi being Polish (as opposed to "Slavic") and its bizarre reference to communists. If pirogi are more accurately described as "Polish" rather than "Slavic," then change the words to reflect this fact; the previous commentary ("communists" et al.) does not belong on this page. 71.215.130.85 04:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)Bosterson

Clean up article

This article is a mess. Seriously. Has anyone tried reading it start-to-finish? It lists many things twice or more, and some information is conflicting itself (origin of the name). 24.8.142.67 06:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)JakubH

ok, I just took a stab at it. I'd say our big remaining problem is that the Russian/Ukrainian distinctions are very confusing. I can't figure out if a vareniki and a pierogi are the same thing or not. If they are, why do Ukrainians in North America use the term pierogi? -- Akb4 23:48, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

They are the same thing but North American Ukrainians speak a particular dialect of Ukrainian influnced by Polish, which is why they called them пироги, pyrohy. This was too hard for English-speakers to say (when you roll the "r" properly is sounds like ped-a-hay), so they created an English word for them, perogy which is what the overwhealming majority of English speakers in Canada know them as, and how the big grocery chains sell them. Now unfortunately perogy the word refers to a different food in Standard Ukrainian and Russian. But this article isn't about that. Kevlar67 (talk) 01:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Revisting the name issue

Essentially, this is what I think. In Canada, in English this food is most often spelled Perogy / Perogies. That's how the big manufactures and retailers sell them (e.g. Cheemo, Safeway, M&M Meat Shops, Sobey's, Superstore, etc.) and many of those companies operate in the US as well, so I don't think it's a stretch to say they probably use that spelling there too. This this is the English WP, that spelling should be the title, as unatural as it looks to speakers of slavic languages. The English word perogy includes uk /ru Vareniki. They are the same food called by two different words, and that article should be merged here. WP cataglouges things, wiktionary catalouges words, so all the rival spellings could get their own Wikitionary entry, but not a WP article. There could be a seperate article created for the baked dish called perogi in Russian, becuase it is a seperate food, not just a spelling variant. Kevlar67 (talk) 19:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Since no one has given me any good reasons against, I will shortly merge Vareniki here, and rename it perogy. Kevlar67 (talk) 02:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

No, no! See my comments below (Ukrainian varenyky)! --Pkravchenko (talk) 12:01, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

revisting table idea

Language	Singular	Plural
American English [1]	pierogy	pierogies
Belarusan	варэнiк (varenik)	варэнiкi (vareniki)
Canadian English [2], [3]	perogy	perogies
Canadian French [4]	perogie	perogies
Hungarian	derelye
Latvian	pīrāgs	pīrāgi, vareņiki
Polish	pieróg	pierogi
Russian	варе́ник (varenik)	варе́ники (vareniki)
Ukrainian (standard)	варе́ник (varenyk)	варе́ники (varenyky)
Ukrainian (diaspora)	пирог (pyroh)	пироги (pyrohy)
Slovak?
Carpatho-Ruthenian	пирога (pyroha)	пироги (pyrohy)
Yiddish		pirogen, piroshke

Once this table is a little more filled out I think it should go in the article. --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 15:20, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

You cannot make generalisation about the Ukrainian diaspora (see my comments - Ukrainian varenyky below) --Pkravchenko (talk) 12:01, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I have added a space for Slovak, and have added what I have called "Carpatho-Ruthenian" which may very well be what was meant by diaspora Ukranian. Also, the singular in -a may either be dialect or a back-formation.

Pot Stickers

They look like pot stickers. Are they similar? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.67.35.214 (talk) 07:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Very. 75.155.81.228 (talk) 14:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

In fact it says so in the article. --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 15:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Cheemo

I do believe that Cheemo is an Albertan company owned by Heritage Frozen Foods Ltd, and not as this article implies American 24.65.42.159 (talk) 18:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The whole American bit is a bit advertise-y...anyone else wanna stab at it? Namely, I'm having trouble turning up anything solid about Paula Newby-Fraser and perogies as a sports food. 99.236.187.231 (talk) 04:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

country of origin

Why does it say Poland under the picture as country of origin? I thought that it was already established that they originated in all Eastern Europe genrally and likely further to the East of Poland and not specifically in any country. I think that country of origin should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mykyta (talk • contribs) 02:19, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Pierogi (derelye) in Hungary

In the Hungary section we read: "Derelye is consumed primarily as a festive food for special occasions such as weddings. It was brought to Hungary by the merchant Andras Perl for his wedding with his wife Katalin in 1764. The Banki family, Katalin`s family, was so moved by the pierogi that now, pierogi are common at most Hungarian weddings." This unverified piece is a gradual development of the text originally added on June 7, 2006: [5]. The original text is a verbatim reproduction of the section on Hungary on pieroguys.com. This is the only place on the web where I can find Andras Perl and Katalin Banki in the pierogi (derelye) context (other than that they figure as co-authors in respectable scientific articles). Does anyone have any insights on (a) derelye being used as a wedding dish and (b) on the piece of folklore about Andras Perl and Katalin Banki in the 18th century? If not, I am inclined to delete this whole story and leave only the dry food facts about derelye. --Zlerman (talk) 14:39, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

• Unverifiable statements deleted on 23 September 2008. The statement about "festive wedding food" remains meanwhile, but has to be verified or deleted. --Zlerman (talk) 01:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Ukrainian Varenyky

Firstly, I would object to varenyky being merged into pierogi, as pierogi is a word that is confused with pyrohy, the Ukrainian-Russian version of a pie. (What confuses things is the the cyrillic letter Г is pronounced and transliterated as H into English if it relates to a Ukrainian word, and pronounced and transliterated as G into English if it is from a Russian word.) So the Russian transliteration for Пирог would be pirog (singular) and pirogi (plural).

Secondly, the Ukrainian diaspora in Australia (to the best of my knowledge) have never used pierogi to describe the Ukrainian version of dumplings — they are varenyky. I think that this would be the majority case in Ukraine as well. Any baked pie type pastries have always been pyrohy. I grant that regional dialectical variations exist, including those which have influenced the use of the word pierogi in America/Canada. But please do be careful in projecting an American-centric view on the English wikipedia site. Just because some (not all) Ukrainian-Americans use the term pirogi or pierogi, does not necessarily mean that the people in Ukraine or Russia (and the rest of the world) do. If you merge Ukrainian-Russian varenyky into pierogi, what about all the other versions of dumplings: Kalduny, Manti (dumpling), Mandu (dumpling), Jiaozi?

The English article on "pierogi" has unfortunately created a lot of confusion in terms of the interwiki links. Although the above page points to the Russian page Пирог (which is a pie), the Russian page prefers to point to the Polish page on Pieróg which is the real Ukrainian or Russian pyrih (a pie), rather thant the Polish page on Pierogi — which is what this page is about. Unfortunately, most of the other page on the other countries' pages similarly reinforce this confusion, as they have mostly copied the text from the English page and are all talking about the Polish/Ukrainian-American pierogi (dumplings), not pyrohy or Пирог (pirog) (don't blame me for the confusing situation!).

However, the article on pierogi does correctly link to to Ukrainian varenyky in its interwiki column on the left — despite there being a separate page on the English page on varenyky! No wonder people are confused!

Take a look at both the Russian wiki page on вареники and the Ukrainian page on вареники and you will see that they look the same as the Polish 'pierogi'. Alternatively, see the Russian page on пирог (pirog) to see that it is linked to the English pie.

To try to help sort out the confusion, at least in terms of the Ukrainian-Russian situation, I submit the following — there are 3 separate items that should not be confused with each other:

1. Pyrih (Ukrainian: пиріг — singular) — the closest English equivalent is pie or pasty. Just as there are thousands of different pies, the same is true for pyrihy (plural) — they can be sweet (eg. with cheese, apple, plums) or savoury (with meat, mixed vegetables etc.) Importantly, they are made from pastry (with yeast) that is baked. Just as with pies, they can be of any size. Flat or open versions could be seen as being equivalent to a tart or 'squares'.
2. Pyrizhok (Ukrainian: пиріжок — singular) — what distinguishes pyrizhky (plural) is that they are a 'finger-food' version of a small pyrih. Again, they are baked pastry (usually with yeast, though they can also be either deep-fried or pan-fried, especially if they are with un-yeasted dough) and can have a variety of fillings: meat, potatoes, cabbage etc. The closest English equivalent (but not exact equivalent) would be a pasty, though pyrizhky are not always pinched together along the edges and are always small enough to be eaten with only one hand.
3. Varenyky — (Ukrainian: вареники — plural) — these are totally different to the other two! They are dumplings — un-yeasted dough that is usaually boiled. Again they can have any sort of filling, including sweet (eg. cheese cherries), or savoury (sour cabbage, meat with vermicelli noodles etc.).

In summary — a) leave the page as it is, and b) allow Ukrainians and Russians to have a separate pages on both vareniki and pyrih which describe their specific foods. --Pkravchenko (talk) 11:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

• Please don't worry: nobody is thinking of merging pierogi and vareniki. You came across a year-old discussion and responded to it. The issue has been dead for nearly a year now. Don't raise it again... --Zlerman (talk) 12:15, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Rationale

Zlerman kindly posted this on my talk and I am quoting and answering him here. Kjaer (talk) 03:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

1) Pierogi are defined as dumplings in the lead. When the article says that the origin is unknown, it refers specifically to the origin of pierogi as such. Yes, they are Slavic, but it is not known if they are Polish, Belarusian, Lithuanian, etc. So, in my opinion, we can simply stay with "Pierogi are of unknown origin" without bringing in the dumplings. Furthermore, the adverb "ultimately" does not seem to belong here, with our without dumplings.

2) I agree that it is unnecessary to say that the word pierogi is Slavic.

3) I took out Ruthenes because, if you look in the corresponding article Ruthenians, you will see that they are defined as Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Belarusians, etc. -- peoples who are already mentioned specifically. Second, the peoples listed have articles with their own national cuisines; there is no article with "Ruthene cuisine" on Wikipedia. Finally, the article Ruthenians says in the first sentence that this "is a culturally loaded term and has different meanings according to the context in which it is used". It seems to me that it is better not to include such an ambiguous term in the context of pierogi. I notice that you have now changed the link to Rusyns, which exists alongside Ruthenians, but this I think will only compound the average reader's confusion, without affecting the core of my argument.

4) In line with the spirit of your editing, I tried to put all the semi-circular Slavic dumplings together. That's why I moved vareniki to follow pelmeni and kalduny. Then come the non-Slavic European dumplings of the same shape (ravioli, tortellini, kreplach). And finally the rest of the world, where the dumplings have a different shape (mainly round pockets of dough).

I had thought a lot about the proper wording of this section before making the changes, and I honestly think that the proposed version has a more logical flow. Please consider my comments. If you agree, then all's well. If you agree partially, let's discuss it -- here or on the talk page. I would like to work out a version acceptable to both of us. Best, --Zlerman (talk) 02:41, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your considered response.

1) I suppose we mean different things by origin. That pirohi are Slavic dumplings is simply obvious given their own separate but cognate names, it is obvious that they are a common slavic phenomenon (i.e., a phenomenon that predates the separation into Polish, Ukranian, etc.) So, if you take origin to mean in what modern country did they originate, the question would be unanswerable. If we mean is there evidence of a fossil proto-pirohi (the way I took the term) then we would have to say that it's possible the earlier Slavs were aware of some external dumpling which they adopted and named pirohi, or the like, but to science and history the ultimate origin of these dumplings is unknown. I think the obvious solution to this point is simply to say that pierogies as such are a Slavic food item and that their origin predates modern national boundaries, rather than saying ambiguously that their "origin" is unknown. Let me know what you think.

2) Well, see number one above.  :)

3) The problem here is that there is indeed a group of people who call themselves Rusyn (or Rusnak, Lemko...) who differ in dialect from Ukranians, Slovaks and Poles, who do have a historical identity and a self awareness, especially in the Americas, but who were supressed and shoehorned into modern nation state standards by the Communists. In English, these people do refer to themselves as Ruthenians. (Both the Rusyn and Ruthenes articles as they stand are such a mess and so political I would rather not touch them. The article Ruthenes as written is focused on the controversy of the name, rather than on identifying that there is a real ethnos which uses that name now while no other nation state is using it. When I had linked to it before, it was about the Rusyns, not about the "controversy.") The reality of the dialects, the mediaeval kingdom centered on Lemberg, etc., is undeniable. If I speak to a Pole, he will tell me I am a Russian. A Slovak will tell me I am a Ukranian, and a Ukranian will say I am a Pole. My own people call ourselves "Rusyn" and our dialect "Ponaszomu" which will tell you a lot. In any case, we are not standard Slovaks, Poles or Ukranians. We do have a history, and we do call ourselves Rusyn while currently Ukranians call themselves Ukranians. I think the link to the Rusyns (which is the article most relevant to my people) should stand. I would name it "Ruthene" since that is what most Rusyns use as a name when they identify themselves in English to English speakers. (Also, I suggest you google "Ruthene pirohi") For sources, see Robert R Magocsi and Juraj Vanko in google scholar.

4) No real stand here on vareniki, just think focusing on semicirularity as such is irrelevant, since that shape comes from use of cup rather than knife in cutting the dough. We make the round ones potato and the triangular ones sauerkraut for visual identification.

I think the best course would be to address each matter separately so we can hammer out each sentence without reverting all the changes if there's an objection to just a part. Let's start with the hardest part, the "unknown" origin. I suggest we try some wording that says that the term pierogi as a slavic word for dumpling originated before modern boundaries, so that origins cannot be traced to any modern political entity.Kjaer (talk) 03:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with your strategy of "piece-by-piece" editing. Will you take the first shot at "unknown origin"? I will meanwhile try to research the "Ruthenian question" more in depth. --Zlerman (talk) 04:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh, sure, lay the hard part off on me. :)

I hope I do not come off as too much of a Ruthenian partisan. My ancestors did not use that word. They lived in Austria Hungary and while they called themselves Russians, they called standard Russian "pomoskovsky." I was simply surprised that the link (which I originally added back last summer) had been removed, and I restored it yesterday without reading the article itself. My sole interest is that there is such a people, they do cook pirohi, that when they speak to people who call themselves Poles or Slovaks or Ukranians they are told that they do not speak any of those standard literary languages, and that they should therefore be included as an entity even in diaspora. As for what to name them, I am not dead set. I think the current article Ruthene is a disaster because a controversy cannot have priority over an entity. That is, if the identification of an entity is controversial, that is fine, but identify the entity first. My prefernce for the word Ruthene over Rusyn is simply English usage. The article on Bavarians is not entitled Bayerischers. I will look at the wording of the "unknown" part some time tomorrow.Kjaer (talk) 04:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, not having heard a response I assume the matter is settled.Kjaer (talk) 02:38, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

You have not heard a response (from me) because I am traveling and have had no time to deal with Pierogi-related issues. My response will come eventually in one form or another. --Zlerman (talk) 04:26, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Piroshki

Piroshki is an Iranian dish that is identical to the food that this article is about. Should it be included? Or is it something completely different, or non-notable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.113.110 (talk) 03:59, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Could you please provide more information on the Iranian dish? Links to descriptions, recipes, photos, etc., to enable us to judge. Is the Iranian "piroshki" a dumpling like pierogi or a bun like pirozhki? --Zlerman (talk) 04:30, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Rewrote introductory sentence, heavy-duty linguistics, "incorrectly"

I have rewritten the first paragraph. Per WP:Definitions, a Wikipedia article is not a Wiktionary article, and should begin by describing the subject, not the word.

I moved 'Proto-Slavic root "pir" (festivity)' and the variant word forms into the section "Origin and name variants". But I have taken out the discussion of the pluralization of words formed from the pir- root in various Slavic languages. I submit that the former is relevant to the history of the foodstuff, but the latter, while no doubt correct, is etymological detail. I copied it to http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:pierogi so that it might be of use there.

Finally, I have removed the statement that North American speakers pluralize this word "incorrectly." A word may come from another language, but that doesn't mean it brings its entire orthography with it. Surely no one here would claim that Polish speakers should pluralize komputer as komputers and not komputery. Matuszek (talk) 19:51, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Two articles about one food

There is Vareniki article too. May be combine into one? --= APh =-- 00:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Different dishes culturally and ethnically. They even have different shapes: see photos in the two articles. Similarities are already adequately taken care of by cross-linking. Not to be combined with much more thorough discussion. --Zlerman (talk) 03:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm russian, and It's very strange to me to see this article. "Pelmeni" and "pirozhki" are two different kinds of meal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.221.146.211 (talk) 17:33, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The Karjalan Piirakka

Is there a reason for the Karjalan Piirakka not to be mentioned in this article, at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oscararon (talk • contribs) 18:33, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Gnocci

What's with the line that says "Please note this is actually gnocci" What is it referring to? Pierogies or the similar Korean dish? As strange as it is to accuse of POV in a food article, it seems like this might be a case; but, perhaps I am just not understanding what the intended meaning is. If the latter is the case, then a rewording would be a good idea IMO. Mwv2 (talk) 04:28, 28 December 2009 (UTC)