Talk:United Kingdom

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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Is the United Kingdom a "country"?

A1: Reliable sources support the view that the United Kingdom is a single country. This view is shared with other major reputable encyclopedias. There has been a long-standing consensus to describe the UK in this way.

Q2: Why isn't Great Britain listed as one of the names of the United Kingdom, in the lead?

A2: See the article entitled "Terminology of the British Isles". Great Britain is the name of the largest island that the UK encompasses, and is not generally used in source material as the name of the country. Indeed, Britain 2001, the "official reference book" of the United Kingdom produced by the Office for National Statistics for "British diplomatic posts" says in its foreword:

The term 'Britain' is sometimes used as a short way of expressing the full title of the country: the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (or more simply again, the United Kingdom or the UK). 'Great Britain' comprises England, Wales and Scotland only.
— Office for National Statistics, (2001), Britain 2001: The Official Yearbook of the United Kingdom, p. vii

This view is reiterated by the Prime Minister's Office, which states:

The United Kingdom is made up of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Its full name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. 'Great Britain', however, comprises only England, Scotland and Wales. Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles.
— Countries within a country, number10.gov.uk (archived version from April 2010)

A report submitted to the United Nations Economic and Social Council by the Permanent Committe on Geographical Names and the Ordnance Survey states:

Great Britain consists of England + Scotland + Wales. The term is exclusive of Northern Ireland and is therefore not a synonym for the term "United Kingdom".
— United Nations Economic and Social Council (2007). "Ninth United Nations Conference on the standardization of Geographical Names" (PDF).

There has been a long-standing consensus not to include Great Britain in the lead as an interchangable name of the state.

Q2b: Is Britain really one of the names of the United Kingdom?

A2b: Whether Britain should be listed as an alternative name in the lead has been discussed often, most extensively in August 2007 and April 2011; and whether the alternate name Britain should be qualified with "incorrect" in June 2006, with "informally" in September 2006, or with "mistakenly" in January 2011.

Q3: Isn't the United Kingdom a "collection of countries"?

A3: This is one of the most common questions raised on this talk page, but consistently, consensus goes against taking that approach. No major reputable source describes the UK in this way. However the history of the formation of the United Kingdom, supported by source material, highlights that England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are "countries within a country". Please also refer to Q4.

Q4: Are England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales countries?

A4: This is the most frequent question raised by visitors to this talk page, and the issue which generates the most debate. However, as a result of a lack of a formal British constitution, and owing to a convoluted history of the formation of the United Kingdom, a variety of terms exist which are used to refer to England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Reliable and official sources support use of the word "countries":

As the UK has no written constitution in the usual sense, constitutional terminology is fraught with difficulties of interpretation and it is common usage nowadays to describe the four constituent parts of the UK (Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland) as “countries”.
— Scottish Parliament. "Your Scotland questions; Is Scotland a country?". scottish.parliament.uk. Retrieved 2008-08-01.

On Wikipedia, the term has broadly won preference amongst the editing community (note, however, that a country is not the same as a sovereign state). Also commonplace is the phrase "constituent country, or countries", when referring to the countries as elements of the UK. This phrase, however, is not an actual term; ie Scotland is not a 'constituent country' in itself, but is one of the constituent countries of the UK. The community endeavours to achieve an atmosphere of neutrality and (for the sake of stability) compromise on the various UK naming issues. See also Countries of the United Kingdom for more details about the terms that have been used to describe England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales.

Q5: Why don't we refer to England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales as nations, or by the term "Home Nations"?

A5: Widespread confusion surrounds the use of the word "nation". In standard British English, and in academic language, a nation is a social group of two or more people, and not a division of land. This is also the approach taken in the nation article, and across Wikipedia (for example, the English people and the Québécois are described as "nations", reflecting real world practice). The term Home Nations is generally used only in sporting contexts. It is not used in any major reputable sources outside of sport, and is not the approach taken by any other encyclopedia.

Q6: Isn't Northern Ireland a province, and Wales a principality?

A6: This view is supported by some sources, but the current consensus amongst the editing community is aligned to a greater body of work which describes both Northern Ireland and Wales as countries. However, the terms are not all mutually exclusive: a country can also be a principality or a province, and these terms are mentioned throughout Wikipedia as alternative names in afternotes.

Q7: Why isn't the flag of Northern Ireland shown in the article?

A7: Northern Ireland has not had its own unique, government sanctioned flag since its government was prorogued in 1972, and abolished in 1973 under the Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973. During official events, the British government uses the Union Flag — the flag of the United Kingdom — and this is the only flag used by the government in Northern Ireland. The consensus is to reflect this in the article with a note.

Q8: Why is "British Isles" not mentioned in the introduction?

A8: Again, Wikipedia editors often disagree on the acceptability and suitability of various terms and phrases. This term is not favoured by a number of Wikipedia editors, and is currently not used in the introduction both to simplify the status quo, and also to discourage edit warring.

Template:VA Template:Outline of knowledge coverage

United Kingdom was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
May 3, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
July 22, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
September 30, 2006	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
February 11, 2007	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
October 3, 2008	Good article reassessment	Delisted
January 22, 2010	Good article nominee	Not listed
Current status: Delisted good article

United Kingdom B‑class Top‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
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Politics of the United Kingdom B‑class Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
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Countries B‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Countries, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of countries on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CountriesWikipedia:WikiProject CountriesTemplate:WikiProject Countriescountry articles

B

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UK geography B‑class Top‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject UK geography, a user-group dedicated to building a comprehensive and quality guide to places in the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you wish to participate, share ideas or merely get tips you can join us at the project page where there are resources, to do lists and guidelines on how to write about settlements.UK geographyWikipedia:WikiProject UK geographyTemplate:WikiProject UK geographyUK geography articles
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This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

"The 50 most-viewed Wikipedia articles in 2009 and 2008". The Daily Telegraph. August 17, 2009.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the United Kingdom article.
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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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Poll on Ireland article names

Sikh population

User:American1991 keeps adding in figures about the Sikh population of the UK. I doubt that these are reliable source but rather than get into an edit war, I'll raise it here for others to resolve. NtheP (talk) 17:20, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a case of WP:CIRCULAR, you are quite right to revert.--Pondle (talk) 17:51, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most populous cities

1. What figures are these based on, from what year? 2. Manchester is definitely bigger than Bristol. Stratman07 (talk) 01:16, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request from Mrmadcat, 17 April 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The UK is not also knows as Britain as stated. Britain or Great Britiain refers to England, Scotland and Wales. Northern Ireland is seperate from Britain. It is however part of the UK. Please could someone remove Britian as an AKA for the UK?

Thanks

Mrmadcat (talk) 21:11, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. It sounds like this may be a controversial change, so please discuss it here first and see what the consensus is. --Darkwind (talk) 21:17, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Prime Minister

I think that Gordon Brown should be removed from the PM position. My reasoning for this is that the government he was leading has been dissolved by The Queen and so officially he is not head of governement anymore because untill May 7th there is no government to be head of and so should be taken out of the article as it is misleading currently. He should be re-added when the Queen has asked him to form another governement (if he wins). (I'm not making this edit myself without editors assent as I think it's too contraversial to do without reason and agreement.) The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 17:14, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your explanation sounds reasonable to me, although it's a good idea to wait for a few more opinions. Nev1 (talk) 17:17, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No. He remains PM (and the government remains the government) until he submits his resignation to HM, which won't be before 7 May. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:08, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Even though the MP's aren't getting their salaries and the House of Commons are not meeting with which no laws are suggested there?

The House of Commons is a legislature, not the government. It just happens that MPs make up most of the ministers.--SabreBD (talk) 18:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)He's still PM- if there was a national crisis between now and 6 May, it would be him and his cabinet who'd handle it so it shouldn't be changed unless he loses the election. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:28, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Although Parliament has been dissolved and there are currently no MPs, the government remain in office (see this). Therefore, Gordon Brown remains PM until (at least) the general election has concluded. Daicaregos (talk) 20:35, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But Brown himself is an MP and since there are no MPs then why does the page currently keep the MP at the end of his name? According to your source he is just a member of the general public again until 7th May and is not a member of Parliament. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 21:01, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He is currently PM, but not an MP - all MPs' terms ended with the dissolution of Parliament. Technically, the ref to him as an MP should be corrected - but see also the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom#End of MPs' terms. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:08, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is Parliament that was dissolved not the Government. The government will change in practice when it is clear Brown can no longer hold a majority in the Commons. --Michael Johnson (talk) 08:27, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The prime minister can ONLY be removed by resignation or a successful vote of no confidence; though obviously a certain amount of pressure can be bought to bear. He can theoretically remain prime minister even if he isn't elected to the commons in May, though he'd lose the vote of no confidence. _{talk to}^{spy on}K^ae 20:48, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Special Relationship - in Foreign relations

The UK's most notable alliance is its "Special Relationship" with the United States

Is un-referenced, POV and reads as if it's been tacked in there. Notability is open to dispute - the EU and Treaty of Windsor being just as notable. Anyone object if I delete? _{talk to}^{spy on}K^ae 21:10, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Given that there is a whole article on the relationship and its importance, with 245 refs at the last count, it should not be deleted. But, I would favour a slight rewording along the lines of: "Since the 19th century, the UK's most notable alliance has been its "Special Relationship" with the United States". Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:17, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's the 'most' I'm disputing; it assumes notability is based solely on concordant military adventures. The Treaty of Windsor is extremely notable, being in it's 624th year and the EU is arguably far more important. How about the entente cordiale? Which is more than the stub-like article says. Would you agree with: "Since the 1946, the phrase "Special Relationship" has been used to desribe the UK's close alliance with the United States" or something on those lines?

UK is not a nation, GB is

This is all wrong. It is the United Kingdom OF GREAT BRITAIN. When someone asks the nationality no one will say United Kingdom, they are British. UK was a term used mostly by the forces when living abroad. The two entries United Kingdom and Great Britain should be combined.

The full nation title is as stated "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" - 92.24.228.231

lol Great Britain is an island made up of England, Wales and Scotland, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a country made up of both Britain and Northern Ireland. The clue is in the title. Pro66 (talk) 00:12, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

British Isles

Editors may be interested in a discussion underway on the British Isles article regarding the name of the island of Great Britain. 88.106.107.115 (talk) 15:35, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]