Talk:Band of Brothers (miniseries)

Historical Errors

We need to reach some sort of consensus here. The Historical Inaccuracies section is become bloated as time passes, simply because there can be any number of errors - both significant and minor. There are things points to keep in mind:

1. Band of Brothers is based off the book of the same name, not off the Second World War in general.
2. Band of Brothers is a television miniseries. It is not a documentary. Therefore, it is allowed a reasonable amount of creative licence and flexibility as far as events and characters go.

The reason I bring this up is because editors are adding more and more errors. Yes, they are often correct and sometimes even sourced. However, it has reached the point where the article contains little else but a list of errors, and that is stated to detract from the value of the article and borders on violating WP:NOT - Wikipedia is not a collection of indiscriminate information, and most of the errors listed are meaningless to readers unless they have seen the miniseries. Additionally, some reported mistakes do not regard the fact that the miniseries is based off the book, which is not a 100% accurate retelling of the events of the war, nor is it a universal record of what every other unit did.

The solution I present is:

• The Historical Inaccuracies section should be heavily trimmed. Only errors that are notable should be included. The most relevant of these is what happens to certain characters at the end of the war, such as the incorrect death of Albert Blithe and Joseph Liebgott's profession.
• Errors involving minor details, such as tactical directions, equipment, script and actions, should not be included. These are far too trivial and are easily allowable within the creative framework of the miniseries. There are other sites on the internet that act as databases for movie mistakes; Wikipedia shouldn't be used in this way.

If this is followed strictly, the current list will only contain two items, possible three: Albert Blithe's death, Joseph Liebgott's post-war career and the controversy over who was first to Berchtesgaden, the latter being a significant event and climax in history and in the book/miniseries. A fourth point could include the Colonel's Walther PP, as it is referred to significantly in the miniseries, the making-of episode and in Major Winters's memoirs.

The other details, including who was wounded when, minor details in the script and other items that fall under WP:TRIVIA should be removed, and additions to the article should adhere to the above in order to prevent it become bloated again. --Scottie_theNerd 04:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

What about eliminating the section alltoghether? Pick a few glaring examples, work them into a new section entilted 'Production' with a discussion on the source material, some information on where the series was filmed, how it was cast, etc. As long as you have a section titled 'historical inaccuracies' you're going to get a list of trivia from people trying to prove how much smarter they are then the filmmakers.--Lepeu1999 18:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm a big supporter of the Historical Inaccuracies section. This isn't Saving Private Ryan, it's a direct representation of real battles and real soldiers. While every possible minor gaffe need not be included, it's incumbent on an encyclopedia to identify cases where major literary license or historical inaccuracies are found. Additionally, where individual people are misrepresented (for whatever reason), a viewer will often take the miniseries as historical fact; helping educate people is part of the mission of Wikipedia. Many readers will find this entry as an entre into learning about Easy Company; calling out major departures from truth is both notable and the right thing to do.

However, once concern I have is the poor sourcing of some of the historical inaccuracies. Joe Liebgott, for example, is listed as having actually become a barber, but the sourcing is a forum post on Bill Guanere's website (certainly not a WP:RS by wikipedia standards). The same site claims that Liebgotts children and grandchildren say that he was never Jewish-- certainly notable if true (apparently it is also a revelation to the surviving members of Easy Company) but again we have no reliable source either way.

Basically, the section should stay, but needs a cleanup. Wellspring (talk) 11:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

This is why people don't trust Wikipedia. Rather than being an unbiased source of facts, this article clearly has someone biased against Band of Brothers as HALF of the article is dedicated to its "inaccuracies". Then once you get to read them, its ridiculous things like someone didn't get a nickname until later or a promotion happened later or someone was given an award 4 days later. In what way, shape or form are any of these things "major departures from the truth"? The ONLY major thing noted in there is that Blythe didn't die, as it stands that really the only major error in all of Band of Brothers, and its not really their fault as Easy Co veterans reported that he died in 1948. Everything else listed is a result of having to condense the events into being done by a much smaller list of characters. As it stands the miniseries set a record for over 500 speaking roles, and is criticized for viewers not being able to tell characters apart, so it seems like if they had attempted to ADD more characters for the sake of historical accuracy it would have made the show more difficult to follow.JediColt (talk) 23:37, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It's symptomatic of a larger problem, here at Wikipedia, being that anything that has ANYTHING to do with America in WW2, ETO specifically, is poo-pooed heavily. Just take a look at the article on Overlord. You would think the entire landing was a wholly UK endeavour and that the American contribution was nothing but a sideshow. WP WW2 articles are wholly biased towards a UK viewpoint (and not an historical one either, but a relatively modern revisionist historian's wet dream). I think the central issue is that many contributers, in an effort not to make America seem like they contributed more than what history and reality shows, have become a little (a lot) overzealous, and are, whether some cases are intentional and others subconsciously, commiting the opposite error by making it seem America was less important than what we really were. Jersey John (talk) 18:12, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

• Agreed, the section is way overdone. Listing how far marches were, the "historical inaccuracy" of when a guy got a nickname or whether it was a major or a colonel is really nothing more than trivia. While this series was based on a book, it is still a work of fiction. It intended to be realistic, but realism and accuracy aren't interchangeable words. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

What's the fuzz? The section hasn't been a part of the article for a while now. Kusonaga (talk) 04:42, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Simon Pegg

What episode is he in? Speedboy Salesman (talk) 16:21, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

He is in episodes 1 and 2 (Currahee and Day of days). He is the guy who gives Winters the letter from Sobel which says he has to go to the court marshall. In episode 2, he is the guy that Lt. Meehan goes to in the plane, because Evans (Simon Pegg) is scared. Endin1 (talk) 22:19, 27 January 2008 (GMT+1)

So in Day of Days he (William Evans played by Simon Pegg) dies right?--Mart572:) (talk) 02:48, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

George Rice

Is not only in the series and book, just is possibly the same George Rice in Tony Hillerman's autobiography. 143.232.210.38 (talk) 18:45, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Question

Who Plays THe Guy Called John Jenovec(Spelling)? In mainly the last episode of Band Of Brothers...He dies after the war in a car crash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.54.26 (talk) 17:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Historical Inaccuracies Section

I've moved it here, as it's largely unsourced. Additionally, this movie isn't a documentary, many of these "errors" amount to dramatic licensing on behalf of the directors. Also, other movies don't have massive sections dedicated to inaccuracies. 99.169.250.133 (talk) 02:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

There are a lot of sources in this section and those who don't are either common knowledge like Hitlers suicide or the number of round from a gun or they are from the commentary. This section contributes a lot to the article as the real soldiers from Easy company where previewed every episode to make sure as much as possible was true. And there are some characters who where mixed up and/or merged for ease of following the characters trough the show. But some things are just plane wrong and should be said. Beside that this is a TV-Show, not a movie. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 12:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Show me other shows/movies/miniseries on this project with sections, longer than any other in the article, which go into such ridiculous detail as "so and so wasn't called __________ until they got to Europe." The section would be relevant if this was a documentary, it's not. TV show, movie, it doesn't matter. The section has come under scrutiny before, and no consensus to keep it was established, I'm just the only one who took the time to remove it. The section goes against common practice on here, it makes the article longer than what is reasonable, and adds very little to the article itself, not to mention that most of it is non-notable dreck and unsourced. The very lead of the article outlines that some dramatic license was taken, that characters were merged, etc. 99.169.250.133 (talk) 18:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, as was pointed out in the above discussion, many of the sources don't meet even the loosest standards for a reliable source, one in particular being a forum posting about somebody's post war job....as if that's an important part of the movie. 99.169.250.133 (talk) 18:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm in full support. That section was all original research and trivia. Kusonaga (talk) 07:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree, but I do think the bit about Albert Blithe should be readded somewhere. That is quite a glaring inaccuracy in the miniseries that I think deserves a mention in the article Morhange (talk) 07:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The part about Blithe isn't really that big of a part of the actual series though. Sure it's an inaccuracy, but the producers were told by members of Easy Co. that he died at a certain time. The discrepancy is talked about in the article on Blithe already. I'm not sure it warrants much of a mention here. 99.169.250.133 (talk) 16:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

WP:FILMHIST may be of some use. Erik (talk | contribs | wt:film) 19:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Excuse me !! Albert Blythe

Someone wrote:

The part about Blithe isn't really that big of a part of the actual series though. Sure it's an inaccuracy, but the producers were told by members of Easy Co. that he died at a certain time. The discrepancy is talked about in the article on Blithe already. I'm not sure it warrants much of a mention here.

The part about Blithe isn't really that big of a part of the actual series though.

Er it was the main theme of the entire third episode.

Sure it's an inaccuracy, but the producers were told by members of Easy Co. that he died at a certain time.

So that makes it OK? Maybe if this series was just a fictional account based on a few war stories. However it isn't and was never marketed as such (it was based on the book of the same name researched, but not cross checked, by Ambrose). Co-producer Tom Hanks has been quoted as saying he wanted to make a work that was both historically accurate and a reliable tale telling the exploits of a group of regualr GIs during WWII.

The discrepancy is talked about in the article on Blithe already. I'm not sure it warrants much of a mention here.

As mentioned above, this is what makes Wikipedia appear a joke. Everything on this site should be crossed referenced and linked to and from articles. Blithe's reported death in this miniseries is wrong. He didn't die just after WWII he in fact went onto fight in Korea. So left as it is, on this page it's a fact that he never recovered from his wounds and died in ignominy in 1947. However if you are bothered to go Blithe's article, it reveals that he didn't die and rose to the rank of Master Sgt.

I personally think that this is the second most ridiculous mistake in the entire series, (the other one is Easy Company being first into Berchtesgaden. It was, and always has been, units from the 3rd Infantry Division as noted in the division's war diary). In context, the reason for the lack of will on the part of the producers to change the third episode end card comes down to simply notability. I mean, who really was Albert Blithe. An unknown until this miniseries was made.

But there would be a rumpus if it was purported that Boreman escaped from Berlin and began working for the CIA or Hitler's double died in the bunker? Yet are these any more ridiculous because concern well known people? On the basis of notability, imagine the flipside if Custer was shown to have survived the Big Horn, or Davie Crockett got out the Alamo!

Albert Blythe didn't die as a result of wounds received during the Battle of Normandy. He instead recovered and became a decorated war hero which is now how he should be remembered.

Nevertheless, this debate (about real person cinematic accuracy) is similar to the one that raged after the release of the 1960s British film Zulu. It portrayed hero-cook Henry Hook VC as a malingering trouble maker where as in reality he was a teetotaller and model soldier. His descendents tried in vain to get some sort of recognition from the producers but to no avail. Even today audiences come away from the movie with the notion that the guy was a crook.

Even more sickeningly I would not like to be the family William Murdoch first officer on the RMS Titanic. Because of the blockbuster 1997 Titanic, most viewers come away with the belief that Murdoch took bribes, shot and killed passengers and then committed suicide. In fact survivors reported that he worked diligently until the end and was seen alive in the water after the ship went down. After film producers refused to take out Murdoch's suicide scene, studio executives had to fly to Murdoch's hometown in Scotland to issue an apology for the depiction to his surviving relatives.News story

So in conclusion it is for the notional idea of truth and accuracy that this Wikipedia article should note, and note quite clearly, that Blithe did not die as the miniseries suggests. His fate being an error. But sadly in reality, like the newspaper man notes wryly at the end of the film Who Shot Liberty Vallance: "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

I therefore suggest that if such a mistake about Blythe exists, it is right to question what else might also be inaccurate in Band of Brothers...does it not?

Easy peasy. See end of historical accuracy section. Kusonaga (talk) 15:44, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Historical inaccuracies and errors during filming

Both Ambrose's book and the resulting series have been criticized with numerous minor and some major inaccuracies, many noted by 101st veterans. Among the historical errors in the television series:

Episode 1: "Currahee"

• Thirteen non-commissioned officers in Easy Company submit a notice to resign their positions in the company. This could be considered mutiny, and was punishable by death under military law. The reason for this was their refusal to serve under their current commanding officer, Captain Herbert Sobel, whom many of the men considered to be inept as a combat leader. While Sobel was considered inept by many, and the 13 non-commissioned officers did not wish to serve with him, it has been stated that Amos Taylor, an Easy Company veteran has said:

"What was said in the miniseries, that all of the noncoms had turned in their stripes or said they were going to turn in their stripes and resign, was not true. Harris and Ranney went to (Richard) Winters-he was the one officer that everybody thought they could trust-and explained the situation to him. Nothing was said about the rest of the NCOs at the meeting."

However, Ambrose notes in his book that the noncoms did, in fact, threaten to turn in their stripes and resign if Sobel was not replaced. Richard Winters also writes in his book Beyond Band of Brothers: The war memoirs of Major Dick Winters (ISBN 9780425208137) that the resignation did in fact take place as depicted in the series.

• There is a board introducing 4 different German firearms; the Karabiner98k, MG42, MP40 and MP43. The MP43 (which was later named the MP44 and then Sturmgewehr 44) was not mass produced until July 1944. It would not have been a captured German weapon by the Allies in 1942; it was first designed in 1943.
• In the series, 1st Lt. Winters is assigned company XO at the time of his promotion to 1st LT. He was not made company XO until a few months later.
• In the series, Easy marches 12 miles every Friday night; they actually went on 35 mile marches.
• In this episode, Bill Guarnere is referred to as "Gonorrhea" twice (In the mess hall and on the SS Samaria). He was not called Gonorrhea until he arrived in England.

Episode 2: "Day of Days"

• Lieutenant Colonel Robert Strayer is referred to as a major twice in this episode, first by a soldier informing Winters and Compton that he is looking for Easy Company's CO and later by Winters during the briefing for the Brecourt Manor assault.
• In the series, Pvt. Hall lands alongside 1st Lt. Winters. Actually, Winters landed with another trooper, and Winters and Hall didn't meet up until Brecourt.
• Colonel Sink's Jeep driver, Private Gerald Loraine, goes to Brecourt Manor with Easy Company for the assault on the 88 millimeter guns (later identified as 105 mm). While the Germans are retreating, the miniseries shows Loraine shooting his rifle at the Germans and missing with all his shots. Seeing this, Sergeant Bill Guarnere reloaded his Thompson submachine-gun, shot the German and then insults Loraine, calling him a "jeep jockey". During the actual assault, however, Loraine killed the Germans after Guarnere missed. According to Ambrose's book, three Germans were running away, Loraine hit one, Winters hit one, and Guarnere missed his man, and then Winters shot the German in the back.

Episode 3: "Carentan"

• Albert Blithe fires twelve rounds from his M1 without reloading during the Battle of Bloody Gulch; the M1 can only hold eight rounds. The same inaccuracy recurs in the episode "Crossroads", when Captain Winters fires ten rounds from his M1 without reloading; however, some have argued that this is a misconception and the extra shots are the same shots but from a different camera angle.
• Blithe is shown to be wounded on D+25 (in the series), but got his Purple Heart (earned by being shot while investigating a farmhouse) on 25 June (D+19) and was awarded it on 29 June (D+23) in England. In the Ambrose book, Band of Brothers, he indicated that the shooting happened on 21 June (D+15). Easy Company was pulled off the line on 29 June (D+23), relieved by 83rd Infantry Division. They returned to England on 12 July (D+36).
• The end of episode three states: "Albert Blithe never recovered from the wounds he received in Normandy. He died in 1948". Fellow Easy Company Currahee veterans interviewed while writing the miniseries Band of Brothers had thought that Blithe did not recover from his wounds, which they mistakenly recalled as a neck wound (in actuality he was shot in the right shoulder). Albert Blithe remained on active duty, was awarded the Silver Star for gallantry in combat, served in the Korean War and achieved the rank of Master Sergeant, married with two children. He died in December 1967 of complications of surgery for a perforated ulcer after attending a memorial ceremony in Bastogne and was buried in Arlington National Cemetery with full military honors.

Episode 4: "Replacements"

• A replacement Soldier refers to a unit citation as a "Presidential Unit Citation, for what the Regiment did in Normandy . . ." However, this award was known as the Distinguished Unit Citation following its establishment in 1942; in 1967 the name was changed to the Presidential Unit Citation. The replacement soldier would have received the award, however. While unit citations are permanently awarded to members of the unit at the time of the action for which the citation is awarded, all current members of the unit wear the unit's citations during the time they are members of that unit.
• Lt. Bob Brewer is shot in the throat by a German sniper outside of Nuenen. In reality, he was shot while the 506th entered Eindhoven. The British tanks in reality were all Cromwell tanks of the 23rd Hussars, but in the miniseries they are reduced to three Cromwells and three Shermans, presumably for budgetary reasons. Ambrose was actually inaccurate here, as it was actually the 15/19th King's Royal Hussars of the 11th Armoured Division in the field. This is a well documented event for the regiment.
• Lynn "Buck" Compton is loaded onto an army 6x6 truck after being shot through the buttocks, when he was actually loaded onto one of the two surviving Cromwell tanks. However, according to Call of Duty: My Life Before, During and After the Band of Brothers, Compton recalls being placed on the hood of a jeep.
• When the tanks are arriving to Nuenen, David Webster says that Vincent van Gogh was born there. In fact van Gogh only resided there from 1883 to 1885, van Gogh was born in Zundert. This is not a factual error with the series, however, as Webster himself believed that van Gogh was born in the town. It was Webster who was mistaken, but the scene is historically accurate.
• On several occasions in the series Private Webster translates German, a language he did not speak fluently, into English.
• The series shows that the British tanks entered Eindhoven on the same day as the 101st, but the 101st arrived the day before the British tanks.
• E Company and the 15/19th Hussars occupied Nuenen unharassed, receiving orders to march East to Helmond. Along the way, they make contact with the 107th Panzer Brigade, who were attacking West of Helmond, forcing them to fall back into Nuenen where they defended until darkness. In the miniseries, E Company and the Hussars encounter the Germans stationed in Nuenen instead, and are routed from the town.

Episode 7: "The Breaking Point"

• While the series depicts Malarkey being given a Luger after the death of Hoobler, in reality he found one himself. He also wanted to bring a Luger to his father and it is said he wanted to give one to his brother.
• During one of the artillery barrages Easy Company endures, George Luz crawls into the same foxhole as then First Sergeant Lipton, when in actuality it was another radio man.

Episode 8: "The Last Patrol"

• During this episode, David Webster was chosen to participate in the patrol for German prisoners but he was actually not and was watching the spectacle from Observation Post 2.
• The soldier who dove in on his own grenade during the patrol, Eugene Jackson, was screaming, "I don't want to die!" in the miniseries, but in Ambrose's book, he is said to be screaming out "Kill me!", due to the immense amount of pain he was enduring.
• After the patrol, Roy Cobb got drunk and made some remarks against Webster and was confronted by both Staff Sergeant Martin and 2nd Lieutenant Jones. This incident was actually much more severe. Cobb was actually confronted by Second Lieutenant Foley for being drunk and Cobb charged at Foley for this. It took two men to restrain him and Staff Sergeant Martin had to pull out his pistol and point it at Cobb. Cobb later faced a court-martial.
• Lt Jones had a longer service record with the 506th. He acquitted himself well in combat, earning 3 bronze service stars. He was wounded while leading a patrol but completed his mission successfully and was subsequently awarded the Purple Heart. This obviously goes against the series portraying him only accompanying Easy Company on one mission.

Episode 9: "Why We Fight"

• Donald Malarkey was incorrectly portrayed as being present at the concentration camp. Also, he was incorrectly portrayed as being present at the taking of Eagle's Nest in the episode "Points". In fact, Malarkey was recovering at a hospital due to illness.
• At the beginning of the episode the date is shown as April 12, at the end Captain Nixon says that Hitler has just shot himself. Hitler did not commit suicide until April 30.

Episode 10: "Points"

• It is stated that Technician Fifth Grade Joseph Liebgott became a San Francisco taxi driver after the war, but most accounts, including that of his son, state that Joseph Liebgott became a barber after returning home from the war.
• The series states that Easy Company was the first unit into Berchtesgaden and the Eagle's Nest, capturing the town and surrounding area without incident. Historians usually identify the first Allied troops to arrive as the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division who secured Berchtesgaden and the Berghof, followed four days later by the French 2nd Armored Division who secured the Eagle's Nest, then 1st Battalion of the 506th, led by Company "C." This, however, may be incorrect. The 2nd Battalion of the 506th came into Berchtesgaden by a different route and lost men in a skirmish with the crews of two German 88 mm guns.
• Controversy has come up in recent years as to precisely which unit captured Berchtesgaden, but in the book Beyond Band of Brothers, Major Dick Winters states "Major General John W. 'Iron Mike' O'Daniel's 3rd Infantry Division certainly seized neighboring Salzburg without opposition and may have had their lead elements enter Berchtesgaden before we (2nd Battalion, 506 PIR) arrived in force, but let the facts speak for themselves. If the 3rd Division was first into Berchtesgaden, where did they go? Berchtesgaden is a relatively small community. When I walked into the Berchtesgaden Hof with Lieutenant Welsh, neither of us saw anyone except the hotel staff. Goering's officers' club and wine cellar certainly would have drawn the attention of a Frenchman from Leclerc's 2nd Armored Division or a rifleman from the 3rd Division. I find it inconceivable to imagine that if the 3rd Division were there first, they left those beautiful Mercedes staff cars untouched for our men" (one staff car is in the Canadian War Museum).
• Major Winters accepts the surrender of a German Colonel, who offers him an ornate Luger pistol. In the scene, Winters tells him to keep his sidearm, but in the Bonus Features DVD, the real Winters recalls the incident and shows the pistol (a Walther PP) he accepted. In Ambrose's book of the same title, he describes how when Winters examined the firearm, he found it had never been fired, he hasn't fired it since, and that it will never be fired. He shows this firearm in the HBO documentary We Stand Alone Together: The Men of Easy Company. Also in the book Beyond Band of Brothers: The war memoirs of Major Dick Winters written by Cole. C. Kingseed with Major Dick Winters, it is said that the pistol was accepted, but the rank of the German soldier was a Major, not a Colonel.