Talk:Burqa

Islam

"some Islamic traditions" it not part of islam never has been should that not be mentioned as is not part of the holy text or part of islamic law and more culture arab clothes as this is a place/website for information that needs to be added.

Israel

"They took their lead in this extreme modesty from a woman they considered holy, but who later was convicted of multiple counts of child abuse. "Nobody forced them; however, she clearly convinced these gullible and needy women that the ideal for a woman was not to be seen in public (and not even to be heard - she used to stop talking for days on end)." This seems awfully POV.--24.22.167.13 (talk) 03:16, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I've tried to rewrite it. I thought it was worth keeping as long as it was obvious what was opinion. Myrvin (talk) 11:19, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Untitled

Is this article necessary? There is already the burqa article.HyperrealORnot 13:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

• I moved HyperrealORnot's comment here from the main article --Bob 19:21, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

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I changed the "worn by Muslim women in Afghanistan" etc. to "worn by most women in Afghanistan", since most women in Afghanistan are forced to wear the burqa regardless of whether or not they are Muslims. Also I clarified the current situation in Afghanistan a bit (it hasn't actually changed all that much yet), and I added some more details about the Netherlands. Carl Kenner 05:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Pakistan

I think the number of women wearing the Burqa in Pakistan has grown in recent years, not declined. In the Punjab, you will see most of the women in the villages and smaller cities wearing the Niqab, not the blue Burqa but the black face veil which has the eyes free. If you may walk through different locations in London, UK, which are mostly populated of South Asians, you will sometimes see even every 10th Pakistani woman wearing it (especially Tooting, Whitechapel which is more Bangladeshi, and the Green Street in East London). In Faisalabad in the Pakistani Punjab, you won't find many women not wearing the Niqab. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.34.172.179 (talk) 16:46, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Bangladesh

Burka, Burqa. This ia not limited to Afghanistan, It was also the Bengali term used in East Pakistan (Bangladeish) when I lived there (1965). It (to me) refers to the fully-sewn fully-enclosing (head and upper body or longer) womens clothing. Most have an eye port, usually covered with a lace fabric flap. Some are rather elaborate; though now used by poorer women, many are severely worn and tattered. In 1995, I was shocked to see almost no burqas (except worn by old women in Old Dhaka or remote villages). I was told that this was due to the revolutionary social reforms since the split from West Pakistan. Young girls, typically wore school uniforms in public.

See also the term Chador, which (in Iran, Farsi) was the simple (usually black and unsewn) sheet, thrown over the head, clasped at the neck, extending to the ground.

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Chador vs. Burka

I'm not an expert on these things by any means, but isn't a chador different from an (afghan) burka? The article seems to suggest that it's just another word for it, but I don't think that's the case - or is it? -- Schnee 11:18, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You are correct, per my experience in the late 1960's. In Iran, the Farsi term "Chador" referred to a usually black {sheet-like} cloth, thrown around the body over the head, clasped at the neck, like a flowing full body cape. Some women liked it as they could go out without "dressing up."

Whereas, to my experience the "Burka" was a sewn tan-colored garment enclosing the head and upper body, with a minimal face or eye opening, coverable with a lace flap. The Burkae-type garment was common in East Pakistan, (posssibly West Pakistan) and Afghanistan. I'm not sure of the Urdu (Pakistan) or Dari (Afghanistan) name. Perhaps someone more familiar with Mideast/Asian clothing and language can clarify these terms.

It is possible that the distinction in some areas may be based on class; with the Burka worn by poorer, less educated, more (rural) conservative women, and the Chador worn by more urban, educated upper class women. -- Visitor 23Oct04

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Only around since 1996?

I've heard that the Burqa has only actually been around since 1996. Is this true? If so, i think it should be included on the main page.

No, I've found references to it in 19th century British works re India. Zora 07:55, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

How about the Middle Easterners that have been wearing burqas for a long time? You'd see movies, books and internet websites regarding the women during the Ottoman Empire, Arab countries, Iran and those in the Arabian (1001) Nights wearing burqas. So, I'd disagree on the statement that it has only been around since 1996. --Fantastic4boy 06:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I saw dirty worn "burqa's" in E.Pakistan (B'deish) in 1964 that looked decades-old on very old village and older poorer urban women. Thus I'm very sure they had long historic tradition. The revolutionary change was that I saw almost none in 1995, only 30-yrs later (after the separation of the "Peoples Republic" of Bongladeish from the previous "Islamic-Republic" of Pakistan. HalFonts (talk) 08:25, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion

I think the article should say that "majority" of Muslim women do not wear burqa and that it is mostly restricted to certain societies such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, UAE, Qatar. It is non-existent in Iran, Turkey, Lebanon, Malaysia, Indonesia. Alot of people these days seem to think burqa is required by Islam or that all Muslims wear this (or even that Quran dictates this clothing), but this is not true. Khorshid 11:03, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Good point. I completely rewrote the article. Whoever had written it had confused burqa with hijab, of which there are many different forms. I erased all the links to "Cultural conflicts" because those are better discussed in other articles, and because I suspect that none of them referred to burqas. I'm guessing it was either jilbab and khimar, or abaya and niqab. You just don't see burqas in the West.

I should probably add the El-Guindi book as a reference here too, but I'm tired. If you want to do that, it would be appreciated. So far, it's the best academic reference on hijab that I've found. Not that I've read all the relevant books. Zora 12:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I should add and stress that if we include Indian population of Muslims, the term "majority" remains no-where. Plus, majority of Indian muslims do wear Burka.--Jahilia 14:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Face veil?

Hi, I'm new to Wikipedia so if my entry here isn't right, please let me know. From my understanding, another use of the term burqa is for a piece that is only covering the face. It has three layers, the bottom one of which has a string between the eyes and the other two can be flipped up or down. An example is here: http://www.alhannah.com/products/ni133.html. So should this be included in this article? Thanks.

PS Are we allowed to link to pages like that Al Hannah page I did? Thanks :D

Hopeinmusic 01:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone who isn't all that familiar with English translated that ad. Burqa has always referred to a garment that covers the whole body, not just the head. The Afghan burqa has a grille; I think other South Asian burqas had slits for the eyes. Zora 10:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Isn't face veil forbidden in Muslim prayers too? As far as I am well-aware off, Muslim women are only required to cover all parts of their bodies except their hands and faces (see Aurat). So, I'm just wondering, for the Muslim women that are wearing burqas, why bother covering your faces up? After all, the Koran requires that Muslim women cover their heads, NOT faces, as a sign of protection against men that are not related to her by blood. I understand that his exception goes for women wondering around the desert to cover their faces from the sandstorm. So, I think it's silly that the Afghanistan government is implying laws that force all women to wear the burqa. --Fantastic4boy 06:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

What about laws that force people to wear clothes in public? Should there be laws about clothing at all? Zora 10:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

"Before the Taliban took power in Afghanistan, it was little worn in cities. During the Taliban's reign, women were required to wear a burqa whenever they appeared in public. Officially it is not required under the present Afghan regime, but local warlords still usually enforce it everywhere outside Kabul. In current unsettled conditions, women who might not otherwise wear the burqa must do so as matter of personal safety.

The full or Afghan burqa covers the wearer's entire face except for a small region about the eyes, which is covered by a concealing net or grille. Pakistani and Indian burkas may expose the face or eyes. It is usually sewn from light materials, and requires many yards/meters of material. Blue is a favourite colour for burqas. The cap from which the material hangs may be decorated with embroidery."

I'm confused as to why Afghanistan is featured so prominently in the introductory paragraphs. It seems to me that the above paragraphs (or at least the information contained within) belongs in a subsection of the main article not in the introduction.

I am in no way an authority on the subject but from my limited understanding the burqua is a part of Islamic societies that are not limited to the those which exist within the borders of Afghanistan.Kinema 11:32, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

The burqa is an Afghani dress. For other countries, there is Niqab.--Kirby♥time 22:11, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Blue?

'Blue is a favourite colour for burqas.' .. not only does it sound like a 12 year old added that portion, can someone explain why? Favorite colour or not, there's still other colours in the spectrum. Black is a popular colour for business suits, however you'll still see people wearing browns, all shades of greys, blues, et cetera. I've only ever seen blue burkas, why? Jachin 20:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I would think, walking around, say Kabul (now full of people from all over Afghanistan) that I have never seen a burqa that was not blue. It is a bit like saying that dinner jackets (tuxedos) are normally black - or like saying it in the 1950s, when it was. 88.97.15.184 16:50, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Burqa / Chador , commentary.

I'm in the garment industry ( specifically ... the one we're discussing - Middle East/Muslim/Arabic.) So, I do this for a living.

Here's how I refer to the garments you're discussing:

- Burqa : A cover for the face - usually covers from the forehead down to the chin or sometimes as far as the chest. Will cover the face to the ear, or wrap around the head. Multiple layers of fabric conceal the face and eyes. Has a slit for the eyes to allow sight. Eyes may be exposed, or covered.

- Niqab : A small veil that covers from the nose down over the chin, and ties around the back of the head. (Think - a 1800's US Wild-West bandit robbing a train - wearing a bandanna over his face - from the nose down. That's the best I can visualize it for you.)

- Chaddor / Chador : The big blue garment that Afghanis wear. (In my opinion, it's a mistake to call this a "burqa")

If you want to buy these items in the Middle East - they will recognize these terms, and provide items as I have described based on the words above ( Assuming that they stock these items in the store you visit. Chadors are an Afghani cultural item - so - you most likely won't see these. )

Iran, I'm not an expert on, unfortunately. So I can't provide input on that.

But I do know this - the black overgarment that would be worn in Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and surrounding areas - typically called an "Abaya".

[ On a side note, I've been keeping my eye on these sections. I don't have a world of time to provide Wiki, however I'm willing to lend my hand when I have some time - either my insight - or some worthwhile edits where deserving (and I feel confident of the information that I supply. :) ) ]

Hope this was of help.

[ SELF-EDIT ] :: If you need photographs, just drop me an e-mail. I can take good quality photos (8MP) of many items that I'm willing to GPL.

KasemO 07:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

"...one of Afghanistan's rulers..."

From the article:

The burqa was created by one of Afghanistan's rulers trying to stop anyone from seeing his wives' faces.

First, can we have a reference? Secondly, can we name and link to the article for this ruler, please? 70.20.175.189 21:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

According to "The Bookseller of Kabul" (Åsne Seierstad) the burka (sic?) was introduced as a social symbol during the reign of Habibullah from 1901 to 1919 to hide the faces of his harem of 200 women from other men when outside the palace. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Forbidden Alchemist (talk • contribs) 04:42, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

health risk section

I have moved all of the brief new section to here until it can be better sourced. The free Metro newspaper is NOT an encyclopedic source, and its article makes it sounds like an allegation -- not enough for inclusion here. If a better source (for the claim, not fo the fact that someone made the claim) can be found, then re-add.

Doctors have warned of the health risks that burka-wearing women are at due to the fact that they do not get enough sunlight. It was reported that a large number of women who wear the hijab and the burka suffer from bone deficiencies due to lack of vitamin D which is obtained through sunlight acting on the skin. Women with dark skin are most at risk because it takes their bodies longer to produce the vitamin. Because of the practice of wearing a burka, avoidance of exposure of any skin to sunlight, and the fact that few foods are fortified with vitamin D, upward of 35–80% of children in Saudi Arabia, India, Turkey, New Zealand, Israel, Egypt, Hong Kong, China, Libya, Lebanon, Spain, Australia, San Diego, California, and the southeastern United States are vitamin D deficient. When the deficiency occurs during fetal life, there is data to suggest that this may cause an increased risk of hip fractures and bone loss later in life.

BrainyBabe 15:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Comment by editor

I have removed the following sentences:

The term chadri needs to be defined when introduced. I think it is an older term for the Afgan burqa. A reference is www.worldviewmagazine.com/issues/article.cfm?id=77&issue=17 -

Abaya/burqa differences

The abaya article states in the introduction "The abaya is an overgarment worn by some women in Muslim-majority countries [...] The abaya should cover the whole body save face, feet, and hands." The burqa article states in the introduction "A burqa (also transliterated burkha, burka or burqua) is an enveloping outer garment worn by women in some Islamic traditions for the purpose of cloaking the entire body." So, what's the difference between an abaya and a burqa, (because as described, they seem to be the same)? These two articles need to make that clear. —Lowellian (reply) 06:23, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Image

The old image

The image added by Dwp49423

On 28th November, Dwp49423 replaced Image:Woman walking in Afghanistan.jpg with Image:Burqa Afghanistan 01.jpg (diff). I believe that the former image is better because it shows the whole body. On the other hand, the latter image show better details of the textile from which the burqa is made. I'd just appreciate a general discussion, what are the pros and cons of each of these images? Puchiko (Talk-email) 23:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I think both images are beautiful. However, in the first one her bare feet are showing with sandels and I think a woman should be covered completely -- head to toe -- to show her purity and her beauty. God is great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.155.110.74 (talk) 13:51, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Air Flow?

I am certainly not making fun or light of the Burqa or the people that wear them. I just can't understand how someone would want to be covered from head to toe in something (especially black) when temperatures and most likely humidity can be unbearable.

Can anyone who wears one explain this?

Allaccesspasses (talk) 13:38, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

^^ Actually , the Burqa os usually made of a very light material like Chiffon , so nobody feels uncomfortable wearing it. Btw , most Muslim areas are not so humid either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.203.53 (talk) 11:19, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Criticism

I am not expert in this area by any imagination, but shouldnt there be a criticism part of the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.77.85.254 (talk) 18:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Misleading text

I edited political parts of the text because it gave no religious perspective at all. It made the whole subject of the veil rather a vague subject, while in reality it is a tradition carried on for many centuries and based upon well established religious texts in the Quran and hadith. It also suggested "many" Muslim groups sympathised with Jack Straw! Which is far from true. His comments caused an outrage because the women in UK who wear a veil do so out of religious conviction and belief, from their own choice. While Jack Straw could not understand this side.

Misleading text

I edited political parts of the text because it gave no religious perspective at all. It made the whole subject of the veil rather a vague subject, while in reality it is a tradition carried on for many centuries and based upon well established religious texts in the Quran and hadith. It also suggested "many" Muslim groups sympathised with Jack Straw! Which is far from true. His comments caused an outrage because the women in UK who wear a veil do so out of religious conviction and belief, from their own choice. While Jack Straw could not understand this side.

Plumfroot (talk) 23:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

What part of the Quran mentions this garment? Oh, I can tell you right away. Not a single line. There is a couple of non-Quran texts that make vague references to clothing that *could* be interpreted as a burqa - but those texts are the subject of theological debate among muslims. Valois63 (talk) 00:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Malaysia

The government of the Malaysian state of Kelantan has suggested a ban if it's deemed necessary [1] Nil Einne (talk) 09:27, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

New phrase

There's been a lot of references in the media to a new slang term for this type of dress --- the 'beekeeper'. Shouldn't it be mentioned in the article? --137.186.246.247 (talk) 18:50, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Legal sanctions

There is little about what these laws would look like. I am intrigued as to how you can make a law that prohibits the burqa without prohibiting other 'western' types of dressing. Will motorcyclists be banned from wearing those big helmets? How about police in riot gear and soldiers and others in coverall safety gear? Some Christian nuns and monks come quite close too. In the winter, I wear a woollen hat and sometimes a scarf over my nose and face. Perhaps the burqa would be allowed in cold weather. Otherwise I could be arrested. - And what about skiers on the public ski slopes, or a nun in sunglasses? I note that a woman in France was fined E22 for driving while wearing a niqab. The police said her vision was obstructed. Myrvin (talk) 17:41, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

See my addition to the ban in France. It's as if someone there read this. I still wonder about the cold weather scarf and the sunglasses. Myrvin (talk) 11:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Belgium parliament passed burqa ban

In whole Belgium burqas and nikabs are banned.

• BBC:Belgian lawmakers pass burka ban 80.226.26.167 (talk) 15:08, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I corrected and updated the article: the proposed law was approved by the Belgian "Chamber" of Parliament on 30 April 2010, and it has now to be approved by the Senate. However, on the very same day, the Belgian government finally collapsed due to other political issues so that both Chamber and Senate will be dissolved soon and there will be an election in June 2010. It is highly unlikely that this bill will become a law any time now. KathaLu (talk) 14:17, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Jewish women wearing burka

There is some small amount of Jewish women wearign burka 1. Not sure though if it should go to the article.--Stansult (talk) 07:30, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Spelling...Please spell the cloak "burka" or "burkah" or "burkha", but not "burqa"...the latter is bunq

I see there are others who choose to spell "burka" for the article of clothing, but the article title is "burqa", which is pretentious in my view and a bit toadying. There are no proper words in English in which a 'q' is followed by anything but a 'u', and I think we should stop allowing foreign influence to corrupt the language.

173.54.37.223 (talk) 04:30, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to the English language, which has been adopting words from all over the world for centuries. You could accurately say that English didn't exist until a foreign influence came along. Maintaining or simulating the original spelling of loanwords is a hoary tradition in English, and your crusade to stop it will have to go far beyond complaining on Wikipedia talk pages. Elmo iscariot (talk) 19:59, 16 September 2010 (UTC)