User talk:Paul Erik

Welcome to my talk page. Post a new message... I generally like to keep conversations in one place... For messages left here on my talk page, I will usually respond here, unless you ask me to respond elsewhere. Thanks.

Flower Drum Song

Thanks for those excellent copy edits. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Happy to help. (Extremely minor in comparison to the work that you and Wehwalt put into it, of course!) Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:The Ghost Is Dancing EP.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:The Ghost Is Dancing EP.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of "file" pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk 04:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!

That's good news. Thanks! Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 12:21, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

wikify chris eaton?

Hey, Paul Erik. Hope you're having a great holidays. Not sure is this is the proper channel for this or not, but it has recently come to my attention that the page for myself as a writer has been erroneously redirected to the page for my band Rock Plaza Central. At one point, a separate page existed to discuss my work as a musician andauthor. It is linked to from various other pages, including lists of canadian writers, and perhaps ontario and new brunswick writers, too (haven't checked that yet).On this page, I believe it listed the books I had written up to thatpoint, which have been studied on several university courses in North America, andalso mentioned the music I had written and performed with the band Rock PlazaCentral, which appropriately had its own page. At some point, however, thepersonal page was redirected to the band pagehttp: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Plaza_Central as if the band page only represents myself and not the other members involved, and I believe this is aproblem. Really, they should exist as separate identities, with the band pagereflecting the music the group of us have made to together and of which I am apart, and a page that says I play in the band but also discusses my work as an author. I'm listed on page of Canadian authors, for example, but then the linksends the reader to the band page.

It looks as though, from going through the page history, that you may have created the original author page in the first place. So I though maybe it made sense to approach you about fixing the error. Is there something that can be done about this? It's not entirely fair to the other people who perform in the band.

You can contact me if you like at chrisrulesbigtime at sympatico dot ca.

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.199.121 (talk) 18:07, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your message, Chris, and best of the season to you too. I'll see what I can do about the separate article, which had looked like this. Another editor had redirected it to Rock Plaza Central probably because it contained no citations to third-party sources (see our guidelines on notability). What would be needed are some news articles that are primarily about Chris Eaton rather than being mainly about the band. Searching around just now, I found this from Chartattack.com, and there appears to be something in the National Post as well (June 30, 2009). There's this and this from Exclaim!. Are there any other newspaper or magazine articles that you are aware of, which focus mainly on your writing? Have some newspapers reviewed any of your books? Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:38, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

I've now restored the article, but some more references would be helpful. Please provide them here, or at Talk:Chris Eaton (Canadian musician), rather than editing the article directly, following the conflict-of-interest guidelines. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 12:07, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

D&D artists

Hi there, hope you've had a happy New Year so far!  :)

Hopefully you are still interested in helping me out with Dungeons & Dragons artist bio articles, as we have discussed previously. If so, I think a good place to start would be with some of the most prolific ones, namely: Valerie Valusek, Mark Nelson, Paul Jaquays, Jim Holloway, and Stephen Fabian. Jaquays is an article in pretty good shape already, source-wise, although it never hurt to add more! :) 108.69.80.49 (talk) 01:56, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Sure. I couldn't find anything for Valusek. For Nelson, using the search terms "Mark Nelson" + "artist" gets too many false positives (way more pages of hits than I'm willing to wade through). "Mark Nelson" + "dungeons" was not useful. Do you have any suggestions for a relevant search combination for him? Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:11, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

It's odd about Valerie; she was a very prolific artist for a while and then kind of disappeared completely, and now there's nothing to be found for her. Maybe cross Mark Nelson with "comics" or "RPG" or anything that makes logical sense from this page? 108.69.80.49 (talk) 06:33, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

That was helpful. I added a few for Nelson. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:01, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

For Jaquays (uncommon name, much easier to search!) all I could find that was both new and relevant was the citation I just added now. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:55, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

"Jim Holloway" brings up pages of hits, but there is nothing for "Jim Holloway" + "artist", nor for "Jim Holloway" + "Dragon", nor for "Jim Holloway" + the titles of any of the video games or modules mentioned in the article. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:06, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Holloway might be another case like Valusek; extremely prolific, but only in a limited field, so not very much press. I found a list of artistic credits; looks like just about everything he did is game related, although he did some coloring book work for Golden Books. Thanks for the extra bit on Jaquays, and I saw your add on Fabian as well. :) 108.69.80.49 (talk) 02:50, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Let me know if those clues help in any way with sources for Holloway. 108.69.80.49 (talk) 06:49, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Hey there, not sure if anything else I mentioned above would help more with Holloway. So, ready for more requests then?  :) How about John and Laura Lakey, Stephen Daniele, David C. Sutherland III, Karl Waller, Ken Frank, and David L. Martin? 108.69.80.49 (talk) 05:16, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

No, I couldn't find anything else for Holloway. And I just checked for John and Laura Lakey, but sadly could not find anything. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 05:27, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh well, thanks for the additions to Daniele and Waller, and especially Sutherland! Got anything for Ken Frank? David Martin might be especially difficult since there is more than one artist with that name. 108.69.80.49 (talk) 18:42, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I tried "Ken Frank", "David Martin", "David L. Martin" searched with "artist", "illustrator", "dungeons", "dragons", "magic", "RPG", and various titles of their listed works, but sadly I was unable to find anything for them. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:23, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for looking! 108.69.80.49 (talk) 12:52, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Ready for more? :) Could you please have a look for Jim Roslof, Terry Dykstra, Glen Angus, Ned Dameron, and Alan Pollack? 108.69.80.49 (talk) 12:52, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to report I found nothing for Roslof or Dykstra. Here is a good source for Angus. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:19, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that - was sorry to find out that he died so young! Fixing up Angus' article now. 108.69.80.49 (talk) 03:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I added a couple for Dameron, but sorry I could not help with Pollack. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:20, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks; would you mind recycling that citation for The Second Generation, which currenty has no references? :) 108.69.80.49 (talk) 05:12, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Good idea. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 13:35, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, again. :) Would you mind having a look at Dennis Cramer, Wayne England, Steve Prescott, David S. LaForce (aka Diesel), and Erol Otus? 108.69.80.49 (talk) 02:33, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I haven't forgotten. I should have a chance to take a look at these early next week, or possibly the week after. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 05:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I've finally started back at these. I wasn't able to find anything for Dennis Cramer. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 05:02, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I found a couple of references to a "digital artist" Wayne England, but it appears not to be the same person. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 05:06, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Help with a potential revert war

Paul, a few days ago, I made an edit to List of Agatha Christie's Poirot episodes (which was reverted). After reading WP:V, I concluded that I needed to provide inline citations per WP:BURDEN (which I did). It seems the WP:WAR do not apply: the reverts are done anon and always 24 hours apart. Can you protect the page from unregistered users or put some other protection on it? I'm standing by my edits: no one has proved they are wrong. Thanks. Argolin (talk) 00:45, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Argolin. It looks as if this is a content dispute in which there has not been enough discussion. You've edited the article to show when the episode "The Clocks" aired for the first time. (Apparently it aired in Norway on 30 December 2009.) Others have changed it back, because the episode has not yet aired on the original network (ITV). I see that The Guardian says "The Clocks is already in the can for a broadcast next year (meaning 2011)". So, what needs to be discussed is whether List of Agatha Christie's Poirot episodes should list original air dates in any country or original air dates on the original network. (Semi-protecting the page would give you an unfair advantage over the unregistered users in a content dispute; it's typically used for protecting against vandalism from a large number of IP users.) Let me know if that's unclear at all. Happy new year, Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 12:03, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Paul, thanks as always and Happy new year for you too. If you're interested there is a guideline: WP:MOSTV. I've read somewhere that the episode order is based on the air date from the orignating network (can't find it in the guideline). It seems my edits are correct per WP:V and should stay. The reverters should have cited the source you found at The Guardian per WP:V and that would have been the end of it. I am amazed (but not really) at the latitude given to unregistered users.

You rock at finding references! I'm much better now at finding and editing inline citatations for articles. I will be creating my third article soon. I have to reread the WP:NM to ensure the band meets the guideline. When done, I'll post something here for your help with WP:INCITE. Argolin (talk) 03:54, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Maino & Premo

You gotta admit though, the similarity is uncanny. I saw an unlabelled photo of Maino and I thought it was DJ Premier. I had to look at their differing arm tattoos to be sure they were different people lol.Hoops gza (talk) 17:32, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, there's a similarity. :) Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 17:54, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alyans

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. GiantSnowman 18:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm on it. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:57, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

You're an admin; if you feel the ANI discussion should be closed then go ahead, I won't chase the matter. GiantSnowman 19:02, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Help! : Posting the truth is a violation and I get a warning? Please, tell this is not true.

To whom it may concern, I have been warned about adding unsourced content (see email below) and if unsourced, which seems to be vague in definition, means I have posted false information about Kojen, THIS is false. If I deleted something, that was in error, but anything I post on Wikipedia is fact, not opinion, and I am astute about this. I remain neutral and post nothing but fact. I feel that the removal was unjust and unwarranted. People need to know the facts and Wikipedia is where I go for factual information. Removal of any facts from your site seem detrimental to the actual purpose of it origins. I feel the perhaps someone doesn't want the facts revealed. If you wish to remove my posting, I am fine with this since the Kojen entry is gone. However, I am saddened that I get a warning of being blocked because I post facts and remained neutral. Again, if I removed something, it was an error on my part. I have lost a bit of faith in Wikipedia now and hope that in the future my truth will remain visible for all to see. Thank you. PS: I enjoyed Jimmy Wales on The Daily Show.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthaboutkojen (talk • contribs)

Sorry that my warning was as harsh as it was. The problem was not that the information you attempted to post was "false", it was that it was material that was critical of an organization which had no sourcing (such as citations to newspapers, books, or other reliable sources). It contravened Wikipedia's policy of verifiability, so multiple editors removed it. (See also the essay Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth.) You may not have realized you were doing something wrong, but you used multiple accounts to edit war to include it. The usual approach in such a situation is to discuss it among editors, but you kept changing IP addresses so it was difficult to know who to talk to! By the time you were editing from the "Truthaboutkojen" account I had the (obviously false) impression that you were uninterested in discussion and so the warning was issued. Again, apologies for the multiple misunderstandings.

I missed Jimmy Wales on The Daily Show! I didn't even know he was going to be on. I'll have to see if I can find a video of it... Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 14:29, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Help with the article I just created

Paul, Can you review the The White Wires article for me? I created the article; it doesn't seem correct that I can now rate/assess it. I'm sure it passess WP:NM and has sources per WP:V. However, those judgements are up to you and the rest of the wiki community. Thanks Argolin (talk) 23:08, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Hey, nice work, Argolin. I'll take a closer look at it soon. One quick comment, though: When you are quoting something directly from a newspaper review, such as The Ottawa Citizen calls the band energetic and entertaining, be sure to put quotation marks at the appropriate places. Nice to see you are starting to get your feet wet with more article creation and editing! Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 14:38, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm really tired of adding music articles to Wikipedia:WikiProject Canadian music. Almost done; my guess is there is about another 500 music groups and musicians to go. After adding so much excrement its time to start adding/editing articles I'm interested in!
For sources I know that wikipedia places a higher value on national newspapers than local ones. That's a big problem in Canada as the Globe and Mail requires payment to access anything old. The National Post hasn't been around all that long. I used the Ottawa XPress assuming it's value is medium as a 3rd party source. I put a few blogs in as I don't think they are banned outrignt. Let me know your thoughts on the article; I'll be creating more like The White Wires going forward. Thanks again. Argolin (talk) 01:55, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I just realized I've actually heard this band on Radio 3! (Their song, "Be True to Your School" – good one.) I find searches in Exclaim! and in Chartattack.com often fruitful, and they are reliable sources for music at a national level. I also usually check nowtoronto.com, eyeweekly.com, straight.com, and some other local music periodicals. I have access to archives of The Globe and Mail back to the 1980s, through my library, so if there's anything you want me to check, feel free to ask. For this article, you've done a good job, Argolin. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:43, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Radio 3 love them! The White Wires song "Pretty Girl" sounds like a big mash of Hefner and The Gruesomes. In fact, their song "Girly Girly Girly" stinks of The Gruesomes. That's all my original research and will be kept out of the article! LOL (unless there are 3rd party ref's!) We do have an unidentified user(s) adding unreferenced material. However, the big complaint I have is with citation style (I guess). I could not find a Canadian (GA or FL) source to base my citations. The style I used is simple and elegant (based on a US source)!!! Check it out... The White Wires. Argolin (talk) 07:37, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Different featured articles will use different citation styles—the requirement is that the style is consistent within the article. It's a shame there's not more Canadian music that's part of featured content: for FAs, I'm aware of Celine Dion and Strapping Young Lad. Taking a look at featured lists, there's such things as List of awards and nominations received by Arcade Fire, List of Canadian Idol finalists, and then a couple of chart-related lists and some more Celine Dion content. Hmm, we should try to bring some more Canadian music project articles to featured level. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:27, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I've always taken citation style to mean consistent use of fist name,last name, article, joural, date (dd-mm-yy) as opossed to last name, first name, date (MM-DD-YY), article, journal. The citation "method" I've come across makes complete sense to me. If you edit the "References" section, you see all citations there as opposed to seeing reflist. Seeing all the references together allows you to judge the quality of the citations (3rd party citations etc...). Is that an offer to help with the white wires? The article needs more content. lol... Argolin (talk) 04:32, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll see if I can find anything more in my library's database. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:55, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Sadly I was not able to find anything new in the Ottawa Citizen or other Canadian newspapers, other than directory-type listings. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 00:49, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok Paul, I have added a "Musical style" seciton to the article. It's located at User:Argolin/sandbox5. I want your critique fist before moving it to the live article. Argolin (talk) 01:38, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Apologies for my slow reply. You've done a good job of gathering together opinions of the band's style from a variety of sources. One thing you need to be careful about is presenting opinions as facts—we're not supposed to do that on Wikipedia, even if there's a footnote to a reference. You'll need to rewrite parts of it to indicate right in the text that these are music critic's views of the band's music. And as I said before, it's great to see you moving into more article writing and editing! I note as well your excellent use of the discography list template here; I'm learning something new that I can make use of in my own editing. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 00:49, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I knew you would get to me eventually... :) I'm amazed at the amount of info there is out there on Canadian indie bands! As much as I dislike google, I've been using them. You can't google search with only the band's name; a few searches with different search terms will eventually get you info on the band. I copied the article anyway from the sandbox (less the music style section) to the live article because of the structure change (including the discography section) and, to my horror, to fix some of the incorrect reference links! The musical style section just didn't seem good enough for a wiki article. I'll take another few days and work on it some more. I have two questions to post to the discography list template people. It's not really clear what to use for the "Type" parameter when noting a Cover song submitted on a Compilation album. Further, when an orginal song is submitted and Type=Compilation, do you list the other tracks other bands have submitted? I am leaning towards noting all tracks with who covered it and who did the original. Finally, I used the {{Discography list}} as it seemed to fit. At this point I don't know if any of The White Wires albums meet WP:N per WP:ALBUM. It's usage also it fit, as there is a lot of info on their releases (various labels, covers, release format: they love vinyl). P.S. I will make a specific edit to the live article when I know from discog people. Argolin (talk) 03:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Paul, does the article satisfy class=C? Once I add Going Gaga 2, Wikipedia will be the only on-line source for a complete discography. I know it's not B yet. I've seen many articles at C when I would have rated them as class=Start. I ask as I understand the differences between Stub & Start, but want to get more of a handle on the other classes. Argolin (talk) 05:19, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I would say yes. In particular, one of the article's strengths is how well referenced it is. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 14:33, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much. To be pedantic, I've only referenced one source; there are 38 citations, and 4 notes. I'm game on trying to get more articles promoted. I'm working on my baby, but am open to adding a few more. You? Argolin (talk) 18:56, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Paul, purely as info for you, searching the web for The White Wires after your newspaper search (above), I found:
<ref name="ottawacitizen(blog)">

• Kristy Nease (11 June 2009). "A weekend lineup of shows to really go GAGA for..." www.ottawacitizen.com. The Ottawa Citizen. Retrieved 28 January 2011. {{cite web}}: External link in |work= (help) Argolin (talk) 01:42, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Alex Lacasse

Paul, I dont believe this article meets WP:NM. Should it be listed at prod, speedy deletion, or regular Afd? Argolin (talk) 03:47, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

• For speedy deletion, I assume you mean CSD A7 – but it would not qualify for that, as there are numerous credible assertions of importance: he is signed to a major label; he was written about in an article in the Ottawa Citizen; he had a charted hit. Any one of those on its own would be enough to escape an A7 speedy deletion.
• Prod is intended to be for something that is non-speedyable but which would be an uncontroversial deletion: something that you would expect no other editor would likely object to. I wouldn't suggest prodding an article about a musician who is purported to have had a charted hit, unless it was an obvious hoax.
• That leaves AfD. If this article were to be deleted, that would be the way to go. But I would probably argue to keep this article. There is an entire article about him in the Citizen, and additional evidence to support the statement that he had a radio hit; those chart positions noted seem unlikely to be made up. But if you disagree, and would like a wider range of opinions, you could certainly bring it to AfD. P.S. Thanks for asking for my suggestions! Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:35, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I thought it was a hoax. I looked in the Ottawa Citizen for verification and got nothing. The ref you added is a blog? There are some big claims made in the article. I won't bring it to Afd (if that's your opinion). Just a thought... We have one Justin Beiber... we don't need another... I think we're full in that category lol... Argolin (talk) 00:19, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Ha! Yes, that category is full. :) No, it's not a hoax: the article in the Citizen is for real, and supports a good deal of what's in the article. The additional reference is by one of the staff of TVWeek. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:20, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

JISBELL24

Damn you're fast. I was just trying to report him to ARV when you blocked. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 04:47, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Sure. Not sure it matters, but is it a sock of someone? Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:51, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Not that I know of. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 04:57, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Clear as mud WP guidelines

Paul, I have encounted a duplicate entry: Jamie Thompson (Canadian Musician) and Jamie Thompson. I believe one or the other qualifies for speedy deletion. The guideline WP:SD for placing {{db-a10}}, {{db-same}} on the article indicates "recent" but does not indicate any timeline!!! However, I think the first one has to go: it has only one edit from April 2010. Before I do that, I should copy relevant info between them (ie. merge)? There is a disambiguation page which does not list our Canadian guy. So far, I have added the two articles to Wikipedia:WikiProject Canadian music and others. Help please!!! Argolin (talk) 01:29, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

You're correct that speedy deletion is not permitted in this case. I would simply turn Jamie Thompson (Canadian Musician) into a redirect to Jamie Thompson; I'm not sure there's anything worth merging. If you think there's something to merge, you could follow the instructions at WP:MERGETEXT. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:39, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Paul, my reading of WP:SD is that it is applicable and is only a matter of incorporating any relevant info into the other article? Argolin (talk) 03:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

WP:A10 does not apply, because it is not a recent creation. (It was created in April 2010.) In the speedy-deletion world, "recent" generally refers to a creation within hours or days, rather than months or years. Also, if you merge anything, then the original page history has to remain in order to preserve the documentation of which editor contributed to the article. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:58, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Now, it seems to me that Jamie Thompson is incorrect as there are other people out there with that name. However, the Jamie Thompson article was the first to be created. Date of creation does not matter: it is a question of clairty? Searching wiki for Jamie Thompson should always go to the DAB page? Argolin (talk) 04:28, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

There is no other Wikipedia article about someone named Jamie Thompson... unless I am missing something? (I just did a search.) If there are multiple people by that name who have articles, then in that case you're right, we would turn it into a disambiguation page. (If there are just two, then it could be handled with hatnotes.) The exception is if there is one person by the name who is far more notable than the others, as explained in WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Jamie Thomson (disambiguation). Searching Jamie Thomson goes directly to one of the offending article pages. There is no mention of either article on the DAB page? Argolin (talk) 04:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Jamie Thompson and Jamie Thomson—similar but not identical names. In that case I think what's usually done is to use a {{Distinguish}} template, like so. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:47, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Paul, spelling is the same!!! Argolin (talk) 04:50, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Wha? One is with a "p" and one is without a "p". Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:53, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, The dab at the top of the article page for Jamie Thompson (Canadian Musician) is Jamie Thomson (disambiguation) without a "p". This dab page lists Jamie Thompson in the "see also" section with no mention of the other page Jamie Thompson (Canadian Musician). I'm quite willing to fix (now as something has to be done as a clear case of a duplicate entry), or should I leave it to you? Argolin (talk) 05:14, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I think all that's needed is to redirect Jamie Thompson (Canadian Musician), as I've now done here. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 05:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll buy that. However, the talk page must be chaged to class=Redirect. I've done that here. Argolin (talk) 05:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry Paul, I've reverted my class=Redirect: not necessary. Argolin (talk) 05:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Well that was quite a Thomson and Thompson show! Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 05:45, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes :) I'm wondering what happend to the talk page. There's nothing yet at the log telling us that both pages were added to our project, or that the redirect was established. Argolin (talk) 05:55, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Citations

Paul, before posting my question on the discography section (which turned out to be only a formatting issue with the discography template), I was on walk-about. I discovered this: Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Review sites. Argolin (talk) 19:23, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

What a great resource! Thanks for letting me know about it. I've sometimes referred to How to find sources for popular music articles when working on an article. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 19:52, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm pleased that I could help you for once.  :) I thought you maintiand such a list and that's why I asked. I started one for myself a few months back when I realised that I will be creating new articles (or citing poorly sourced ones). It's by now way complete; but it's some cites that are in our Canadian music articles. Now, I copy the The White Wires#Citations section to an article that I'm adding ref's to. Argolin (talk) 01:39, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Can something be done?

Paul, what can be done about user Dolovis? Her talk page contains complaints about other wikipedia guideline violations. Instead of posting in the Afd debate, I posted my concerns to this user's page here [1] (it's been blanked out). This user likes shutting down discussions asking you not to post to their talk page in the future. Argolin (talk) 00:47, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

If a user has recurring problems, and direct discussion with them does not seem to help, then sometimes a larger discussion is initiated at WP:RFC/USER. If it comes to that, it appears that User:Resolute and User:Djsasso would both be in position to certify a RFC/U.

Can I offer some feedback to you? Just an observation, and take it with a grain of salt. I think it was a good idea, first off, to post to the user's talk page rather than posting in the AfD debate. Your first attempt at discussion led to this response. It's not the response you were hoping for, but I probably would have left it at that. (At least the user recognized that it was a good thing that you had saved the article from deletion.) I've found that even if users don't immediately say that they understand a concern, often their behaviour does change as a result of having brought it to their attention. Your next comment telling them they were "in violation" (if you were feeling frustrated, I do understand, and can relate to that!) led to a rather defensive response, so that additional exchange might have only inflamed the situation, rather than getting the result you hoped for. Time will tell if this user becomes more diligent in researching subjects before nominating for deletion. There are many users on the project who are not sufficiently careful with deletion nominations. I take heart, though, in that even ill-advised AfD nominations often have a beneficial result: better-sourced articles. I really do commend you, though, for your attention to WP:ATD. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:39, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Paul, Most eloquently stated. Frustrated, you bet. After spending a few hours adding ref's her response seemed flippant. It's all better now. Yes time will tell. On the plus side, the Canadian music project is now signed up to Wikipedia:WikiProject Canadian music/Article alerts. Argolin (talk) 01:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I bet I know who did that! Excellent, well done. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:28, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

One big cavaet: as you know, articles/items will only appear if assigned to the project via a banner on the discussion page. Da Gryptions was prodded/Afd under Wikipedia:WikiProject Quebec and appears on the Canadian discussion pages. I've only just added the article to Wikipedia:WikiProject Canadian music. It should appear on tomorrow's article alert report. Argolin (talk) 03:03, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Good Article review for Will Munro

Hello! The article Will Munro has finally received a Good Article review. It seems able to be passed, pending resolution of a couple of small issues. Please head over to the review page and see what I've had to say. Let me know on my talk page when you believe the issues have been resolved, or if you require further advice. - DustFormsWords (talk) 22:52, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks so much for doing the review and offering such helpful suggestions. I will have a go at improving the article over the next week. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 00:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Paul. The seven days since I undertook the review expires tomorrow, and there does not appear to have been any work done on this article. If you would like me to hold the review open while you address the issues identified, could you please indicate that intention by commencing work on the article prior to Wednesday? Many thanks. - DustFormsWords (talk) 03:19, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I will! Thanks for the prompt. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your work! The article now meets all the GA criteria and has been passed accordingly. Congratulations! - DustFormsWords (talk) 22:25, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Wonderful. Thanks again for the time you took to do the review, and your excellent suggestions. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 23:22, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mitch MacDonald

The article Mitch MacDonald has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No notability outside Canadian Idol finalist. Fails WP:MUSIC.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 18:05, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification. I'll try to dig up some more sources for that article. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:09, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

omg Paul! I didn't know you were a fan of Idol lol! (hope you don't mind me jumping in) I remember now that I came across this Category:Canadian Idol participants days before I came across Alex Lacasse. This along with the rather dubious WP:NM articles I've previously been forced to add to our project started me on my way to real article creation. Anyway, I have no real plans to go through Category:Canadian Idol participants and it's parent Category:Canadian pop singers looking for articles to add to our music project. To avoid overbannering (which I was reminded of recently), I had hoped that many of these articles would be added via my examination of the genere based categories.

Maybe you want to add any other Idol articles you've created to Wikipedia:WikiProject Canadian music (so at least our project will be aware)? I can produce a list! see: User:Argolin/sandbox1. I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel now adding hip hop as I'm not exactly what you would call a fan. Argolin (talk) 00:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Lol, indeed. Looking at User:Paul Erik/Articles I think the only Idol-related articles I've created are Mitch MacDonald and Theo Tams. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 00:43, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

How about you adding them to our project? I'd sort of rather be caught dead, than aiding in the dribble that is reality tv: LOL!Argolin (talk) 00:54, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Sure, I will do that and spare you the pain. :) Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 16:20, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Adding the Hip hop category

Paul, I've come accross a Datsik "musician" article not added to any project. It was deleted per WP:BAND 23 March 2010; see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Datsik (musician).
Two things: can you do your thing and confirm his non-notability?; Second: what now? In the past, I would just add the article and move on to the next item on my list (as I was Skeptical that the Canadian music project had knowledge of, and/or any input in the deletion of the article). Argolin (talk) 23:37, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

If the article was pretty much identical to the article that was deleted by the AfD, then it could be speedily deleted using CSD G4. But in this case, that would not apply, because (checking the deleted versions of the article) I see that this new version already has some improved sourcing: the coverage in Spinner. A second AfD would be needed if it's to be deleted again. Doing a little research, though, I see that The Province calls him "one of the most popular dubstep DJs around", he gets a little bit of coverage in Eye Weekly, [2] [3], and even some brief coverage in the Liverpool Echo, so I would think, with the coverage in Spinner as well, it's notable enough to stay. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 00:08, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Paul I'm a mortal user (not admin) and have no access to previous deleted articles/items. However, I may be wrong. I've added the {{oldafdfull}} template to Talk:Datsik (musician) along with other project banners. Argolin (talk) 00:48, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll add a note about why I didn't speedy-delete it. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 16:22, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

White Lung (band)

Paul, I'm going to add White Lung as a music article. I can only really find two WP:RS; the many times written up in Exclaim! and the reviews in Chart (magazine). I'm having a hard time figuring out what to write about. Can you help find sources?
The White Lung in place isn't an article but rather a redirect [4] to Asbestos. Naming the article White Lung (band) won't help the matter. In fact, is White Lung (band) a preferred name over White Lung? My perliminary article is in User:Argolin/sandbox6. Thanks again Paul, I know I've sucking up a lot of your time recently. Argolin (talk) 00:51, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• I've turned White lung into a disambiguation page. Yes, I think the best place for your new article would be at White Lung (band). Once it's made, we can add a link to it at the bottom of the disambiguation page. I didn't do an extensive search, but searching "White Lung" and their album name did not turn up any hits in my library's database, I'm afraid. But it does look as if the subject is notable enough. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:04, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
• A couple of other minor issues to note: The fact that a band has a page at CBC Radio 3 does not necessarily indicate that the band has received any airplay on CBC Radio 3. There are over 14,000 band pages; most of them have not been placed "in rotation" on the radio stations. Also, just for your information, "Footnotes" or "Citations" are not commonly used as headers: the more common ones are either "References" or "Notes" – see WP:FNNR. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Paul my claim of WP:BAND #11 is I don't think is a minor issue. I suppose you're being nice (don't LOL!!!)? I've re-edited NoCore and its Afd Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/NoCore. I will of course change my preliminary article.

Many thanks for your reference to WP:FNNR!!! I will probably have to remove my iTunes naming note per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Sources#Sources_to_avoid. However, the WP:MOSMUSIC has no guideline regarding the naming of Footnotes/Notes/Citations/References sections. I think I understand your point in the naming of the Footnotes section: I should name the section References with a subsection Citations, as few music articles are structured with the Footnotes section. Argolin (talk) 07:41, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Caine (rapper) copyright violation

Paul I added a multiple issues tag to the above. About two-thirds of the Music career section is a direct copy of http://www.rapdict.org/Caine. I added a copypaste template. Looking at the edit (which was mostly undone) I added multiple issues tags as the article had a new unreviewed article banner dated March 2010. I am checking now as I wanted to confirm the copyright issues had been taken care of. Argolin (talk) 00:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

It appears to me that it was a copyright violation of http://www.myspace.com/cainerap right from its first edit, so I've tagged it for CSD G12. Good find, Argolin. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Not really the answer I was expecting! :) It was speedily deleted before Wikipedia:CSD#A7. I'll have to re-read the Afd guidelines again. The article's creator was warned about copyright violations in the past. I believe sockpuppetry is involved (but that's a whole other wiki guideline)! Thanks. Argolin (talk) 03:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Another admin, Stephen, deleted it (see log) after I tagged it. Did you think it should not have been deleted? Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:03, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree absolutley agree with the removal. I assume that you are not allowed to delete it as nomiminator. It was speedy deleted the first time as not demonstrating WP:N. When the article was recreated (I believe by the same user; I can't tell anymore; the logs are gone) the orginal issue of demonstrating WP:N was not resolved. When I stated above that "About two-thirds of the Music career section" was a violation WP:COPYVIO, that meant about half of the article was in violation. There were many other WP:GUIDELINES issues (my edit log is gone for this article); I remember noting PEACOCK, Spam, WP:BLP UNSOURCED. I may have noted Template:External links. This may have been incorrect as the actual problem is that the remaining external links were all buy me sites per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Sources#Sources_to_avoid. Argolin (talk) 05:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Paul, it's back! LOL!!! All of the WP:COPYVIO violations have been resolved. LOL!! Sorry I can't stop it. The article has structure LOL!!, but no content. There is nothing claiming WP:BAND or even WP:N. LOL!!! Even though I AM NOT A DELETIONIST, can I speedy delete this one? There are two references: one to nothing, other not exibiting notability. LOL!Argolin (talk) 05:45, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

It's a bit of a judgment call as to whether we ought to view it as asserting WP:MUSICBIO criterion #1 because it lists sources (and evaluation of sources is discussed at AfD). Another advantage of having a full AfD discussion is that (if it results in deletion) we could later speedy-delete as CSD G4 if the article keeps getting recreated. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 19:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Opera Canada (magazine)

Paul I need to impose upon you for another search. There are many newspaper articles for Opera Canada. None that I've been able to find deal directly with Opera Canada. Most newspaper articles cite Wayne Gooding (the current editor) espousing about this/that Opera. I have a list of Directors / Trustees (2000–2009) if that helps. The preliminary article is in User:Argolin/sandbox7. Argolin (talk) 03:37, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Sure. Is there anything in particular you would like me to search for? "Opera Canada" gets hundreds of hits in my library's database, and it's a lot to sort through. At a quick glance, I see a couple of articles from the Toronto Star that could be used to add a little more content, especially "Opera community rallies to save ailing magazine", 13 October 1991, p. C5. I'd be glad to add it to the article once it's in mainspace. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:09, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

The article should be created at Opera Canada. There's no need for a disambiguator in parentheses unless there are multiple articles that would share the same title. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

The Star article looks great. I'll have another go and try to find it myself. I'm trying to expand Contents and reception section. The article's name is based on other publications such as Opera (magazine). I want to disambiguate it so that there is no ambiguity as to what it is. It is a magazine independent of all opera companies in Canada. But, hey I'll remove the disambiguator in the name if that's what you recommend. Argolin (talk) 04:34, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Regarding page deletion "03:10, 11 February 2010 Paul Erik (talk | contribs) deleted "Stephen Shank" ‎ (A7: Article about a real person, which does not indicate the importance or significance ...)

Hi, Just checking why this page deletion was made: "03:10, 11 February 2010 Paul Erik (talk | contribs) deleted "Stephen Shank" ‎ (A7: Article about a real person, which does not indicate the importance or significance ...)

The person in question is a well known American and Belgian theatre director, actor, writer and set designer. He is listed on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_theatre_directors_in_the_20th-21st_centuries#Multilingual

Can you give more information on why it was deleted and what or how it needs to be modified to be taken live?

Here are some sources: http://belarthe.blogspot.com/ http://voila-theatre.pagesperso-orange.fr/Stephen-Shank.htm http://archives.lesoir.be/patrimoine-serie-%AB-en-brabant-wallon-en-2011-%BB-1-5-_t-20110103-016Q0J.html http://archives.lesoir.be/%AB-les-miserables-%BB-a-la-butte-rebecq-embardee-_t-20101222-0169F6.html

Thanks in advance!

Wikieditor8 (talk) 17:37, 3 February 2011 (UTC)Wikieditor8

The article that I deleted last year had no sources, and said nothing beyond identifying him as a director who was born in Brussels. Please go ahead and create a new article, with sources. It is not protected against re-creation. See Wikipedia:Your first article for some guidance, but let me know if you need further help. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:40, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Mitch MacDonald for deletion

The article Mitch MacDonald is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mitch MacDonald until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 17:49, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Re: speedy deletions

Technically that may be so, but the articles I deleted were in such poor shape that I couldn't, in good conscience, leave them on the site. That and most didn't have any tangible content to them, so went by the spirit of A7 rather than the letter. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 19:30, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's the ideal way to go about it. Some can be redirected to the school district, no-content is a different speedy, and Prod can work well enough most of the time. That's not to say there was anything really worth keeping; I just don't think it's a good idea that admins act in a unilateral fashion like that. But I won't make a fuss about it. ...beyond the fuss I just made. :) Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 22:21, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

duplicate entry?

Hey Paul me again. I think I've discovered a duplicate entry: Dallas Green (musician) and City and Colour. The first article is quite a mess (invalid citations, infobox problems, link-rot, structure). Lots of talk here [5], but little being done to fix anything. I didn't go through the second. Argolin (talk) 19:09, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Argolin. I think it was decided at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/City and Colour that the two articles ought to remain separate. Dallas Green (musician) covers his wider career; City and Colour is about just that one specific project of his. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:27, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh my!!! If that's the case that we keep both, serious pruning must be done on Dallas Green (musician). His discography is misleading listing all the albums in City and Colour and Alexisonfire without a simple see: discography City and Colour, Alexisonfire. The text within the article is also very misleading: "On February 12, 2008, Green released a new full-length studio album entitled Bring Me Your Love." He didn't release it: his City and Colour recording alias released it. I've added to the problem by citing the City and Colour's 2009 Songwriter of the Year to him per here [6]. The Juno's named him (not his alias) as winning. The City and Colour article contains no reference to Julius Butty per User Bearcat's assertion in the Afd. I've tried looking for Julius Butty here [7]] and here [8]. That article is also wrong claiming a Juno award nomination. However, that's a separate isse.

I was thinking more of a merger of the two articles? Now, maybe an Afd? Argolin (talk) 06:28, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Both articles should remain. Dallas Green and City and Colour both meet our notability guidelines. I added a note at Talk:Dallas Green (musician) about there being separate Juno Awards: Green has won an award for songwriting, and City and Colour has won one for Alternative Album of the Year. The discography in the Green article has been handled as is often handled in musician biography articles when the musician has been part of multiple bands: the albums for which the musician was a member of the band get listed. If there comes a time when Green is no longer a member of Alexisonfire then any albums the band releases after that would not get listed in Green's article. I don't understand why you think duplication is a problem; it happens quite often. If I've missed the point of what you are saying, please let me know! :) You're right that some of the wording needs adjusting to clarify that albums are actually City and Colour albums. I don't think it warrants putting a big tag on the article, though. And something about Butty's production work probably should be added to the City and Colour article, if someone can find a source for that. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm bascially saying that they are the same. A merger is probably out due to his Juno win as Dallas Green (even though it was recorded by his alias band City and Colour)? I added the citation to the DG article in the WP:LEAD section. I'll go back and make that clear. I was going to point to the Dan Boeckner. There is a clear separtation of what he's done with each band. This is a poor example as it is a class=Start. Shouldn't we use

Main article: City and Colour

along with structure: see George Harrison and Paul McCartney?

Shouldn't many of these articles within Canadian music follow WP:DISCOGSTYLE (proposed)? PS I took a wiki break the last couple of days Argolin (talk) 00:21, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

American Idol AFDs

The precedent seems to be now that we delete individuals who haven't made anything of themselves after Idol, which those two have not. As I said at the other AFD, someone like Michael Sarver has a post-Idol claim to notability with a charting album. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 02:12, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Yvonne Hubert

Paul, I believe this article to be a contravention of WP:COPYVIO. The article's creator is not active on wikipedia. I placed a notice on the discussion page, but it is not very active. Should I go ahead and place {{db-copyvio|url=http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=U1ARTU0001657}} on the article? It looks like a copyright violation right from the start in 2006! I've added this citation on the discussion page and in the article itself as an in-line citation.

Argolin, you are absolutely right. Good find. I double-checked the earliest version of the article, and checked using web.archive.org that it matched the Canadian Encyclopedia article from the same time period. I've deleted it as a copyright violation. We should probably check the same editor's other contributions for similar problems. Thanks very much! Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:15, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I checked the user's talk page. There was a warning about an image in copyright violation. Other warnings about creating articles without references. The login used has not been used since 2006. The article's gone: I can't see who created it anymore. Is looking other articles created by the user part of the checklist? Argolin (talk) 03:58, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Right, sorry, I forgot that would have disappeared. The user was SingSong (talk · contribs). Yes, just as we check the contribution history after we revert someone's vandalism, it's a good idea to check other contributions of someone who has violated copyright. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:19, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Oops... Thanks!

I misplaced the link, sorry about that! Thanks for the catch! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daryll89 (talk • contribs) 04:18, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Flint Dille

Hey there Paul,

I was dismayed recently to see that Flint Dille was deleted at AFD. Do you have any sources which would make it worth resurrecting? BOZ (talk) 18:40, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll investigate further. His name turns up 109 hits in my library's database, but at first glance it looks mostly like brief mentions, such as noting that he wrote An American Tail: Fievel Goes West. But someone who gets described as a significant collaborator in Gary Gygax's obit is likely someone Wikipedia should have an article about. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:13, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

That's what I'm thinking! I first noticed the article was deleted when someone removed a link from Flint (G.I. Joe), as supposedly the character was named after him. BOZ (talk) 07:00, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Have you been able to sort out any useful hits? BOZ (talk) 06:13, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

My apologies, BOZ. I've had only very intermittent Internet connection over the past few days—things should be back to normal a couple of days from now. Have you looked through the news archive link? If there's a specific one behind a paywall that you think I should take a closer look at, let me know. Otherwise, let me get back to you on Tuesday or Wednesday. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 14:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Looks like some interesting stuff in there! His grandfather's obit reveals that his grandfather and father were both named John Flint Dille, Sr and Jr respectively, but I don't know if it mentions the youngest Flint by name. This one may talk a little about his role with American Tail. This is freely available, and while interesting because he has some quotes about how his grandfather would have appreciated a 1984 flight of the shuttle Challenger, is probably not useful for an article about him. This one is also available freely, and talks breifly about plans that he and his sister Lorraine Williams had to being back Buck Rogers. This one is freely available, and it looks like it might be a good source which discusses him directly and in detail! This one is a brief note attaching him to a possible Buck Rogers film; there are others like it, but this one seems to have the most detail so far. This one is a paysite, which I believe contains his father's obit. This one talks about his involvement in a recent Buck Rogers comic, as well as about his work in the video game field. This one, a bit more specifically mentions briefly his involvement with the Sin City video game (try cross-referencing Frank Miller with Flint Dille and you'll probably come up with a lot! Although a lot of them are just brief name-drops for Dille.) That was what I saw on the first three pages of Google News, but if you think it's worth it to look deeper I have no problem with that. BOZ (talk) 18:47, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

All right – the non-freely available ones, in order:

• The New York Times obit is too old to show up in my database.
• The Chicago Tribune review has a paragraph (78 words) about Dille's writing.
• I couldn't find the father's obit other than a brief sentence in the Baltimore Sun, and it does not mention his son. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:13, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

That bit from the Trib might be useful, depending on what it says. I think I was mistaken about that being his father's obit, and may have been his uncle's. This, this, this, this, this, and this might be useful, don't know, cause I can't see them. This page crashed my internet I think, so I didn't get to look at it. This page wouldn't open for me. That's the next three pages on the Google News archive. BOZ (talk) 23:29, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

• The Tribune article is critical of Dille's writing, for example saying, "Screenwriter Flint Dille has provided a story that is frenetic and fast-paced—in the end, too hyper..." although also notes, "Dille periodically tosses in bits of relatively sophisticated humor." I'll try to dig up the others. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
• The Sun-Times article is in my database, but not the full text.
• The Hamilton Spectator article is not in my database.
• The Miami Herald article is not in my database.
• The Orlando Sentinel article does not provide much critical commentary about Dille's writing directly; essentially it just notes he wrote the screenplay.
• The Press-Telegram article is not in my database.
• The Philadelphia Inquirer article says just this about Dille: "There are all kinds of game-related books to choose from but the recent The Art of the Video Game by Josh Jenisch, The Art of Halo 3 by Prima Publishing. and The Ultimate Guide to Video Game Writing and Design by Flint Dille and John Zuur Platten are heady, thought-provoking choices."
• The page that crashed for you is a press release, but it says "...the game allows players to relive their favorite movie moments and go beyond in a movie-inspired storyline penned with the help of Flint Dille, best known as the writer of the acclaimed “TRANSFORMERS” animated series."
• The one that wouldn't open for you also wouldn't open for me. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:50, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Do you think we've dug up enough worthy stuff, or should we keep digging? BOZ (talk) 12:25, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I think there's enough to restore it to userspace to undergo improvements in sourcing. If you ask Fetchcomms, who closed the AfD, to restore it and move it to your userspace, I'll help with some of the sourcing. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:53, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I've moved it to User:BOZ/Flint Dille. Good job finding the sources! Don't worry about contacting me before moving it back to mainspace later, etc. Cheers, /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 15:45, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Great, thank you!  :) BOZ (talk) 00:42, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the start on that - I don't know if I'll have the free time today, but I'd like to start incorporating some of the more useful reliable sources we found above. BOZ (talk) 14:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Ric deGroot

Hey Paul, same thing. Any chance of working that magic wand of yours to save the article at the current Afd? There's one keep and one delete; I don't know if that is enough to save it! Argolin (talk) 00:08, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Argolin. I actually did a search when that article appeared on the Article Alerts, but sadly could not find any sources. He was just a touring musician for Strange Advance, maybe? (See here.) I notice he's not credited on their albums, Worlds Away and 2WO. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:03, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh no!!! I don't like to loose an article like this. You and me know he is a musician. He is listed on a Quickflight album here.

Please respond: I suppose the (admin) nominator should not have mentioned the unsourced articles (now sourced per WP:V), or that the other two bands do not have wiki articles? I believe this statement implying non-notability to be completely unfair: the non-existance of a wikipedia article does not mean non-notability? Argolin (talk) 04:15, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Although most notable bands probably have already had articles written about them, you're correct that the absence of an article does not necessarily mean that a band is non-notable. At an AfD, everyone in the discussion ideally will share responsibility in researching whether a related subject is notable, as part of researching the notability of the subject of the article under discussion. Have you found some evidence that either Rent Party or The Lookaways is notable? I did a few searches like this but could not find anything. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:41, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Much of my time on this issue this past week, was spent on establishing WP:BAND for Strange Advance and to a lesser extent Quickflight. I found these WP:V source for Rent Party [9], [10], [11], [12], etc... Broadcast Music Incorporated does not mention Ric deGroot as it is site for songwriters, composers and music publishers. Should I add it to the wikipedia article for Ric deGroot and state this fact on the Afd discussion page? Argolin (talk) 00:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Good work on the Strange Advance article. For Rent Party, those would help with verifiability, yes, but I don't think that databases such as repertoire.bmi.com have been acceptable as counting towards WP:N notability. It might end up that the article will be redirected to Quickflight (which appears to account for most of his notability), with a brief note there about his work with other bands. Not all musicians who have worked with notable bands end up getting "kept" at AfD. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 17:44, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Come the day I actually propose a (musician/band) article at Afd, it is non-notable per WP:BAND. Full stop. Statements about the sources (or lack thereof) are necessary only to the extent that the reference fails WP:V; meaning it should not be considered part of WP:BAND #1. If I'm way of the mark, please say so!

Thanks for the big reminder that a source may be verifiable leading to WP:EXIST but may do nothing for WP:N (or in this case WP:BAND). I guess at this point, I don't understand why (from above) "Not all musicians who have worked with notable bands end up getting "kept" at AfD." Ric deGroot is a keep based on my reading of WP:BAND #6. What am I missing? Argolin (talk) 00:09, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the slow reply. Thanks for that reminder about the WP:EXIST essay—I've read it before, but had forgotten about it. Have you seen User:Uncle G/On notability? That one was helpful to me when I was trying to understand what Wikipedia's "notability" was all about.

As for the "keep per WP:BAND #6" issue, by a strict reading of it you are right, but what I think you might be not getting is that WP:MUSIC is a guideline rather than policy, and therefore more flexible around interpretation. As I wrote above, DeGroot was just a touring member for Strange Advance, and there does not appear to be much written about his role in Strange Advance at all, so I think it's a bit of a stretch to say he was a member of multiple notable bands. The other piece you might be missing is that editors have become much more cautious about including BLPs of marginally notable people, out of concern that we are hosting too many poorly-watched biographies that could have problematic content added to them, affecting the lives of the people written about. Not so long ago, some admins starting deleting articles without seeking consensus even though the articles did not meet WP:CSD (see discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Rdm2376's deletions). Following that, there were multiple discussions and changes (for example, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people/Phase I; don't read it all—too much!) that have been part of a cultural shift where there is less acceptance of marginally notable biographies. WP:MUSIC guidelines may not have been fully updated to reflect that change.

As for Ric deGroot redirecting to Quickflight, this is just my view; others might disagree with me, as you are of course welcome to do! Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:26, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Hooded Fang (band)

Hey Paul, the new article I'm about to create already has a redirect established to Jacob Two-Two.
Please confirm that:

1. this new article name should be: Hooded Fang (band)
   
2. I must change Hooded Fang from a redirect to disambiguation page (as follows):
   

Hooded Fang may refer to:

• Hooded Fang (band), an indie rock band from Toronto, Ontario.
  
• Jacob Two Two Meets the Hooded Fang, for the films based on the book Jacob Two-Two written by Mordecai Richler.
  

Thank-you. Argolin (talk) 23:01, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Argolin. Yes, I think that's probably the best approach for what you are planning. Note that MOS:DAB suggests having only one blue link per entry, to make it easier to navigate to the most relevant article. (So, don't link Toronto and Ontario, for example.) Sorry I have not yet responded to your questions one section above; I will! Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 23:28, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the excellent advice as always! Please check my edits at Hooded Fang. I know that you will get to the above (we both know it's not a pressing issue). Argolin (talk) 00:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Say Us

Hey Paul, I am trying to create more articles. I just created the one above and was going to include the instruments played by everyone. It looked too busy/messy User:Argolin/album. Any thoughts? Argolin (talk) 20:50, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Very good work. (You've followed through on a previous request on my talk page which I never got to!) I agree with you that's a difficult decision: add all the available information and have it look too messy, or leave it out for the sake of a neater format. I'd probably include the information, but really you could go either way. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:50, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Paul. I'll put it in. Maybe I'll come across a similar article later which uses an appropriate template. Argolin (talk) 23:18, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to ask you to rate/assess it for me. Argolin (talk) 23:35, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Now done. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:58, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Baby Eagle

Paul, I'm trying to write a separate article for Baby Eagle (band). However, the Baby Eagle (musician) redirects to Steve Lambke and Baby Eagle redirects to Jericho 941. The four new bare-bones articles are at User:Argolin/sandbox6.

Do I set up the article as Baby Eagle (band) and change the redirect Baby Eagle (musician) to point to this new article. Further, do I change the Baby Eagle redirect to a dab page? Argolin (talk) 00:20, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

If you think it's clear from the sources that Baby Eagle is a band, and not just the recording alias of Lambke (I don't know; I haven't looked), then yes, you would change the redirect Baby Eagle (musician) to point to the new article. Then you would change the hatnote at Jericho 941, and you would not need to create a dab page. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:11, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Paul, I now believe that the Baby Eagle is a recording alias of Lambke. I've corrected the hatnote at Jericho 941 from a redirect to Steve Lambke to Baby Eagle (musician). I have not found any other reference to Baby Eagle (musician) in wikipedia. I know that I can create the album articles for Baby Eagle as they meet WP:N. However, as Baby Eagle is his alias, should I just incorporate what I have into his existing article?

Hi Argolin. Yes, in that case I think you would incorporate it into his existing article. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 11:46, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

hay

hay i made it beater keep that in mind and don't change it or i will be up set — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ewan Bruce (talk • contribs) 18:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

OHY YOU ARE EXSTREMLY MEAN, RUDE AND CRUL I DID NOT COPY IT OK — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ewan Bruce (talk • contribs) 18:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

please i promise i did not copy my freind gave me the info i just added it sorry — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ewan Bruce (talk • contribs) 18:18, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

sorry i checked the website it came from and it didn't say it was copy right thats proble why my freind gave my it

from Ewan.A.Bruce — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ewan Bruce (talk • contribs) 18:26, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Reserection of Deleted Article? Wildlife (band)

Paul, I've successfully resurrected an article in the past by contesting a WP:PROD; see Adam and the Amethysts. However, Wildlife (band) is an entirely different animal. I'm stepping up now and stating that this deleted article meets WP:BAND as evidenced by [13] and [14] and [15] and [16]. There is an almighty Allmusic entry (there are a few) [17] but I can't say for sure if its' the correct one as the article is deleted. I've not done a full-fledged no-holds-barred Canadian search for the band, but in my mind if the CBC and the library both have an entry: the article meets WP:BAND. Argolin (talk) 05:45, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Argolin. Good to see the work that you put into the Adam and the Amethysts article. For Wildlife (band), I think you would need to find more sources. Directory listings provide evidence of WP:EXIST but are not strong for evidence of WP:N. Also, the library listings you've found are not all about the same band. Allmusic seems to have listings about various bands called Wildlife, but not any actual entries (where Allmusic staff have written something about the band), unless I've missed it...? Also remember that just because an artist is on the CBC Radio 3 website (which has something like 14,000 artists) does not always mean that they've been played in rotation on the station. But I think I actually have heard them on CBC Radio 3. Maybe try a search for "Wildlife" + "Dean Povinsky", or "Wildlife" + "Easy Tiger", and you will find some evidence of WP:N. The only source that the deleted article had was this. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 12:09, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I found two more [18] and [19]. I'm not necessarily claiming WP:BAND 11; it's another verifiable source for a citation. I can't see what was in the original article. It's had a troubled time on wikipedia being recreated and deleted a few times. If it was assigned to Wikipedia:WikiProject Canadian music we could have done something at the prod/Afd. Are the two reviews enough to undelete it? Argolin (talk) 22:43, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Great! I also found this from the National Post, and this from Voir. There's this from News Durham Region and this from Now. So we're well on the way to meeting WP:BAND criterion #1!

You've taken a look at the deletion log? It was never deleted by AfD or even by Prod, only by CSD A7. Some of the deleted articles were about different bands of the same name. You could ask JamesBWatson (who deleted it) to undelete the most recently deleted version, which was about the Toronto band. Or I could ask him, if you prefer. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 23:45, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll ask him and tell him we will cite it properly. I've seen the log, but alas not the deleted article. I came across the article here [20]. And yes, the Canadian music project is getting one similar! It will help those that are interested in saving articles from those deletionists and hopefully lead to better artilces beeing added to the music project. Argolin (talk) 00:24, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

He was not willing to restore the article? I mentioned you; but I don't think he came to your talk page. Argolin (talk) 01:15, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I've asked him if he would reconsider, or if he would give me permission to undelete it. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 16:40, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

BLPs at AFD

I know I was already bugging you about Flint Dille, but current AFDs kind of take priority.  :) I was notified about Beth Sotelo; this AFD has gone on for a few weeks now, but decent sources have yet to be produced in that time. Another user nominated Marcelo Del Debbio, Lee Gold, and Geoffrey C. Grabowski for AFD, as well as put PRODs on numerous other game designer articles. Would you be able to check and see if you can find sources for any of these? BOZ (talk) 14:47, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I should have a chance tomorrow to look at these. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 22:56, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good - if any more of the PRODded articles get sent to AFD, I will let you know, but I figure those are the bigger priority at the moment. BOZ (talk) 23:04, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Ugh. My library's database is not working. I hope it will be later today. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 15:31, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Hopefully they have decent tech support.  :) In the meantime, the same user added Rob Heinsoo and Pete Fenlon to AFD, if you don't mind checking those as well. BOZ (talk) 23:17, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Nothing for Beth Sotelo or Marcelo Del Debbio. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 00:03, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Guess I'm not too surprised by that; Sotelo was already deleted anyway. Anything for the other four BLPs? BOZ (talk) 17:59, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I found only the one source for Gold; nothing for Grabowski. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 20:01, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks; anything for Heinsoo and Fenlon? BOZ (talk) 21:41, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Just a couple of bestseller charts for Heinsoo. For Fenlon, all that turned up was the Wired article already cited. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 22:46, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again for your diligence. If any more turn up at AFD, I will let you know. I don't want to overburden you with the list of PRODded bios (although the PRODs were removed from several of them, which were not subsequently send to AFD), unless you have the time to check those as well. BOZ (talk) 23:01, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, although I'll just note (also to remind myself) I checked Scott Leaton, Chris Wiese and Ken Lightner and did not find any sources. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 00:52, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, in that case. ;) The other ones which still have PRODs on them include Paul Drye, Joseph Goodman (was redirected, actually), Gary Holian, and Clinton R. Nixon, so really less than half of those originally PRODded. BOZ (talk) 01:29, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Additionally, two were also nominated for AFD: Jeff Koke‎ and Christopher Kubasik. BOZ (talk) 00:55, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

For Koke, the one source that comes up is this, but it says nothing about him other than that he is a graphic designer who did some work for Lake Hills Church. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:47, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

And for Kubasik, this article comes up, but it's a very brief mention of him. I found there's also a Christopher Kubasik who is an executive with Lockheed Martin. A Christopher Kubasik who directed and acted in the Chicago theatre scene in the 1980s might or might not be the same person as the writer; there's no biographical information anyway, only credits on two plays. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:05, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Probably not a lot that can be added to Koke and Kubasik then. In addition to the PRODs on Drye, Goodman, Holian, and Nixon, there is also now a new AFD on Ann Dupuis. BOZ (talk) 11:01, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry I couldn't find anything relevant for Dupuis—lots of unrelated hits, especially for a social policy professor by that name in New Zealand. I'll try to get to the others later today. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 14:28, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

And nothing for Paul Drye or Gary Holian. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:45, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Okie dokie; let me know about Goodman and Nixon, and then unless we hear more from the editor who has been nominating all of these, I think we can assume that is enough. :) BOZ (talk) 11:21, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

I added one reference for Nixon, which was all I could find. "Joseph Goodman" brings up way too many articles to search through, as it is a common name. When I combine "Joseph Goodman" + "Goodman Games" nothing comes up. "Joseph Goodman" + "Dinosaur" was also unsuccessful. Phew, that is enough for now! :) Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:03, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

LOL, I agree! Hopefully nothing more comes up.  :) Thanks again for your hard work! BOZ (talk) 05:03, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Now that things have quieted down in that regard (for now?), would you like to take another look at Flint Dille? BOZ (talk) 15:05, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I've added the critical quotation from the Chicago Tribune. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:18, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Reply

My answer :

Have you seen the website ? This is no commercial and certainly not spam. This is a good old fashion website, 100% legal offering free scores which will be very useful to anyone who's seeking informations on a song on wikipedia.

I understand you're very suspicious and I think I know why but there are still honest people on the web.

Thank you. jbvoinet

Hello. Are you affiliated with www.traditional-songs.com? Please be aware that the adding of external links to a large number of Wikipedia articles can have the appearance of spamming. Thanks, Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 11:27, 17 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbvoinet (talk • contribs)

Hi Paul, thank you for adding references to The Learning Station. Ingadres (talk) 07:38, 22 March 2011 (UTC)