Talk:Ovadia Yosef

Family History

What about adding his family info. How many sons/daughters, what do they do? Names? Wife's name? etc.Gavhathehunchback 04:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Ethnicity

Why does this article fail to mention what his ethnic background is... Is He Kurdish or Arabic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.241.131.23 (talk) 18:31, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

His ethnic background is mentioned: he is a Mizrahi Jew. Sstr (talk) 03:59, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

The set of religious cultures is different than ethnic background. So going back to the question...What is his ethnic background. Lets say he remained in Iraq, what would he describe himself as? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.203.194.50 (talk) 00:18, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

A corpse probably, if he kept saying those things out loud ;p Simanos (talk) 13:37, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

His ethnic group is Asiatic sub grouping Semitic Tribal Hebrew-ISRaelite. [Descendants of Jacob aka Israel] Historically known as Jews or Israelites (Non convert in origin). Jews generally tend to look close to the native ethnic group, but revert to the native "Sabra" look when born in Israel within one or two generations. Arabs are generally (though not always) Asiatic sub grouping Semitic Tribal Hebrew-ISHmaelite The first Hebrews were Terah [Abraham's Father] and his family. Hebrew means on the other side and is a reference to either the eastern side of the Euphrates or possibly even The Tigris. Sources: Asia and Its Peoples, Talmud (regarding Abraham's origins)

Accuracy of quotes

Someone emailed me and said that the quotes on this page are out of context and unfair. Some cursory looking around on the web suggests that, at the very least, we need to track down precise original sources and additionally give some context. I encouraged the person who emailed me (apparently new to Wikipedia) to edit the article, but I hope others will as well. Jimbo Wales 10:09, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

I wonder why people think that you're personally responsible for Wikipedia's content! Reminds one of the Great Kat, uh?

I'm not familiar with the quotes, but one has to bear in mind that Israeli political discourse is a lot tougher than Michael Moore vs George W. Bush. Whoever introduced the quotes (User:MathKnight and User:Liftarn) might be willing to provide online links or other context. There might be grounds for removing them - they shed little light on Rabbi Yosef's influence in ways not discussed in the article body. JFW | T@lk 12:11, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

You can find the many quotes of Yosef in Hofesh site. However, note that Hofesh is an extreme anti-religious website with clear (and ugly) POV against Haredi Jews. They chose only Yosef's ill-wishes and put it out of contex. The quotes are real (they were reported widely in the Israeli press). You are welcome to add your addition and Shas reaction to the aforementioned queotes. MathKnight 20:58, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This quote and the sentence that it is part of is almost meaningless:

"Prayers according to Yosef's verdicts are the most common in Sephardic synagogues..." --Bo Basil 17:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Page moved

Why was the page moved? Everyking 11:50, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Someone (User:MathKnight) felt that the page should incorporate the Rabbi's title. This is in violation of policy, so I moved it back. JFW | T@lk 09:32, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

maybe i don't understand the wiki rules but i have problem. you request a source to prove a saying. but you didn't noticed that there is no positive related press to harav yosef. so all of the sources are problematic!

and there is a bigger problem, wikipedia in hebrew is completly not objective! for example the page about "a brief history of time" (by Stephen Hawking) in hebrew is almost intended not objective. whan they repet the on the times Stephen Hawking says thers's no god, while Hawking refers in the book many time to god as phisical solution as he did at the end of the book, which wasn't noted at all there. and if you'll look at the english page you'll find it much more accurate.

this is a small example of the alltitude towards religion in israel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.116.171.225 (talk) 20:01, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Translations of works

Have any of Rav Ovadia Yosef's works been translated into english?

Not to my knowledge. JFW | T@lk 09:32, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Sections of Yalkut Yosef have been translated, but his own work is really too technical for someone who doesn't understand Hebrew to even bother with. It would take an extraordinary person to be familiar with the intricacies that he deals with while being unable to read Hebrew. I considered translating Anaf Etz Avot. If you are willing to publish it, give me a buzz. I am still up for the task:P User:PhatJew

Dirty laundry

When the "controversy" section gets longer than all the "positive" sections on the page something must be amiss. Is this the result of constant negative media attention? Is it because the media don't understand that this man has also done good things, such as address the plight of improverished Sefardim? It is a great evil if Wikipedia content is determined solely by someone's negative exposure in the media. JFW | T@lk 07:25, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Regarding the addition of the line: According to an eyewitness at the lecture: ("I personally was there sitting in bet kenest tiferet yerushalayim adat yazdim & rav didn't say that.").

- I am currently sitting next to a man who overheard my conversation regarding the Rabbi and he claims to have been at the lecture in question. He claims that Rav Ovadia has not said that and was sitting in the Persian synagogue during the lecture. [Anonymous] Upon clicking on the source cited at the bottom of the article, http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/1664849.php, I noticed that Indymedia was itself quoting another source. The source cited is actually a reposting of libel from AlJazeera. I was redirected from Indymedia to AlJazeera. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2943BEB3-FF4E-4436-B5E8-91C494187230.htm Please do not quote LIBEL in the future.

Al Jazeera is unlikely to be (1) informed (2) neutral about this topic. I'll see if this can be removed. JFW | T@lk 23:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

But it's also allegedly quoting Maariv. A better tactic would be to see if we can find the original Maariv article, or some confirmation of it. ShalomShlomo 23:45, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Found confirmation of it in a cached site quoting Ha'aretz, as well as an Arutz-Sheva op-ed criticizing the remark. ShalomShlomo 23:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

No, it was reported to Al Jazeera by Dovid Feldman, a Neturei Karta spokesperson. Whether it's true or not, we need to go for more reliable sources. We can safely say that Al Jazeera is not a useful outlet for impartial information about Israel, Jews etc. JFW | T@lk 23:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The problem with Neturei Karta is that they actively work towards the destruction of Israel. I wouldn't trust any organization that was on the payroll of Arafat. [Anonymous] There's also a translation issue. Ashkenazis means Germans or could also refer to German Jews. "You were in Ashkenaz, in Hell, you did what you did there - What do we care?" would really mean, You were in Germany, in Hell, you did what you did there - What do we care." And "all the troubles came from the Ashkenazis", a separate quote, would mean, "All the troubles came from the Germans." but could also refer to German Jews. As both are cited out of context and separately, putting them together into a single quote is a quote dishonest.December 12, 2005.

All of these issues and concerns are irrelevant given the sources and quotes in Haaretz and Arutz-Sheva. In the part of the speech quoted, Yosef was talking about Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews. If you look at the two articles, this seem fairly clear given the other quotes, particularly since A-7 is not known for having the anti-religious bias some accuse Haaretz of having. ShalomShlomo 00:57, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

165.123.155.86- I've modified your changes to make them less POV and to reduce redundancy. Let me know if there's an issue with the changes I made. ShalomShlomo 20:58, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Footnotes

There is a strong indication that footnotes are to be preferred over inline external links. Why were the footnotes removed?[1] JFW | T@lk 22:04, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

JFW- That was me. I wasn't aware that footnotes are preferred. I'll change them back. ShalomShlomo 22:40, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Katrina

"blamed the tragedy... on black Americans for not studying the Torah" This is totally laughable and out of context.Ortho 02:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

It was also widely publicized, making it note-worthy. What is the context? Why not feel free to share it here, and provide background to the quote, as other quotes of his have gotten on the page.ShalomShlomo 05:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

For one thing, I doubt Rabbi Yosef believes black Americans should be studying Torah. I dont think that any orthodox rabbi believes that any non-Jew has a requirement to study Torah.160.39.138.14 05:23, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I fixed it a bit. He was most definitely not saying that non-Jews should be studying Torah. That is ridiculous, as anyone who knows anything about Orthodox Judaism would understand. PhatJew 21:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Jamieod, I've reverted your latest edit to the theodicy section. I've tried to modify and explicate the Katrina section further, hopefully it's a little better now. I appreciate you wanting to maintain the rabbi's dignity, etc., but I think we're better off trying to explain what he actually said than inaccurately paraphrasing him. Regards, ShalomShlomo 04:59, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

LASHON HARA

THIS PAGES HAVE A LOT OF LASHON HARA OF RABENU OVADIA, AND MOST OF THE THINGS ARE HERE ARENT TRUE, JUST ARE STUPIDS THINGS. PLEASE, DONT SAY LASHON HARA OF A TZADIK LIKE THIS. HE LOVES THE ASHKEANZIM A LOT, LOVES THE HASSIDIM SO, HE CANT SAID THAT THE HOLY SOULS OF THE SHOA WERE EVILS, THIS ISNT TRUE..PLEASE, YOU BELIVE MORE IN MAARIV/HAARETZ/YEDIOT THAN THE POSKIM? COME ON THE STUPIDS THINGS MUST BE DELETE FOR A BEST WIKIPEDIA. Bresolver 13:26, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

See the above discussion reg. dirty laundry. You liking a person doesn't invalidate their negative press. If you have information that something is out of context, write it into the article or mention it here so others can try and fix the problem. But if Yosef is in the news because he's said something (or something that was interpreted) as offensive, then, yes, it should be mentioned, particularly, as in Yosef's case, when they are a prominent individual, and their comments will get major reactions. Using you argument, the Pat Robertson and Louis Farakhan pages shouldn't have any quotes or controversy sections, either. Either help with practical solutions or suck it up. Waving the lashon hara flag is unproductive. ShalomShlomo 00:24, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

YES, I HAVE INFORMATION, THAT RAV OVADIA LOVES ASHEKENAZIM Bresolver 01:19, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Simply saying something doesn't make it so. Feel free to put up some information here on the talk page. Until then I don't see how we can do anything about your concerns. Don't get me wrong; I have no interest in slandering rabbis, but at the same time, it's not like wikipedia's job is to do Eli Yishai's work for him. ShalomShlomo 04:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Bresolver: Your feeling is commendable and you are on the right track because it is important to show that Rabbi Yosef is a positive leader, especially to the millions of Sephardim who follow him and the many Ashkenazim who admire him and respect his scholarship. But the only way to do this on Wikipedia is to find sources and write more in the article that will support the valid arguments you are making here. IZAK 06:41, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

That Yosef has expressed racist views is widely known. It may uncomfortable for some people here to face that, but hopefully it will prompt some introspection into their prejudices. And by the way, CAPS LOCK rants aren't very convincing.

I don't really know about the neutrality of this article... :-/ MiniMary12 17:33, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

The Kashrut Citation

I Hope very soon, someone will translate it into English, for the meantime - my apology.

בתור מי שעוקב שנים אחר הרב, אני מוכרח לומר שנעשה כאן עוול עצום לכבוד הרב כאשר חדשים לבקרים מגיחים להם עיתונאים בורים! שלא שנו מימיהם וכעיתונות צהובה במיטבה, מיטיבה להוציא דברים מהקשרם ולעורר "כאילו-סערה" בהקשר לפסיקות תמימות למדי מתוך דרשתו של הרב. אחד הבולטים שבהם, שמחקתי אותו כליל מתוך המאמר, הוא כאילו התקפתו נגד האשכנזים, שהם כביכול שורש כל הרע וכו'. ובכן, א"א לצפות מעיתונות חילונית שבמקרה הטוב אינה יודעת להבחין בין סידור לגמרא שתוכל "להתעמק" ולו ברמה כדי להבין את הביקורת של הרב שהיא מוצדקת בכל קנה מידה לגבי העוול שנגרם לכשרות הספרדית על כל ההיסטוריה הטעונה של מחלוקות הכשרות בין האשכנזים לספרדים. הרב השמיע את דברו בקונטקסט מאוד ברור של "בשר כשר" שהוא טריפה גמורה לדעת מרן הב"י (כמוסכם בראשונים) ולא עוד שאף גדולי האחרונים מליטא ובראשם הגאון מוילנא הזהירו נגד ההתפשרות של הרמ"א בענין סירכות, והמנהג בארץ ישראל -שהיה מיושב ברובו ככולו בבני עדות המזרח- היה פשוט וברור שזה בשר טריפה עד שצצו להם ניצי עלייה אשכנזית שהעיזו לערער על מנהג ישראל קדושים והציתו ריב ומדון על ידי השקת מונופול כשרותי משלהם. ומכאן זעקו של מרן נגד המניפולציות ב"שוק" הכשרות, בישיבות ובחתונות שבהן מתארחים גם בני ספרד ועוד ועוד, שלא היה שום אזהרה ונפנפו ב"בשר כשר" על אף הסירכות, ורק הבדילו בינו ל"בשר חלק" כאילו מדובר באיזו חומרא למהדרין ולא היא, כי באיסורי תורה עסקינן! כמובן, שדעתו של הרב שבארץ ישראל, אתרא דמר של מרן הב"י ולכן אף האשכנזים מחוייבים לדעתו. בפרט שהגאון מוילנא ותלמידיו כאמור הזהירו מאוד בעניין, ודבר זה ידוע בשער בת רבים. כמובן שהנושא מתרחב לשאר דיני כשרות, כגון ברכת בורא פרי הגפן על היין בהכשר בד"ץ העדה החרדית (לדעת הרב יש לברך שהכל ואף נהג כן הלכה למעשה), בישול נכרים ועוד ועוד... ואז צץ לו עיתונאי בור שבו ברגע הוא בטוח שגילה הסקופ של חייו, כאילו איזה רב עירקי משובש משתולל ביזדים (איזה התנשאות מגעילה...אבל זוהי מהות העיתונאות בישראל, לצערי) ומשתלח ב"אשכנזים", מיד ממלאים עמוד שער עם כותרות ענק וזעקות שבר על "התקפה ברברית" של רב ספרדי חשוך ומיד מביאים לאולפן כל מיני פוליטיקאים אופורטוניסטים שיותר מששים כמוצא שלל רב, כדי להרוויח הון פוליטי ובלי שידעו ויבינו את שפתו של הרב הם עוקבים אחר הכתוביות על המסך או ב"ציטוטים" המרושעים (ממש כך) בעיתונות הרדודה ומתחילים להתסיס את ההמון...ממש הבערות במיטבה

לכך אני זועק לא עוד! לא ייתכן שבוויקפדיה המכובד יתנו לכך במה, ולא עוד אלא שטרחו לצטט 4 שורות שלמות מתוך דברי הבל ומשפטים טרחניים ומשעממים להפליא מפי איזו עיתונאית מזדמנת באתר שולי, למה, מי היא? מה נתן לה הזכות כדי לבקר את הרב בדברי הלכה? יש לה מושג בכלל על מה מדובר?

Again, I hope someone will translate it into English, if not I hope to rewrite it myself in English later this week, but I hope someone will take the trouble and translate the above or at least a summary of the above.Zadil 00:08, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll summerize in brief. he says that the people who wrote this article aren't religious & since then they can't criticize the rabbi.They're absolutely like the newspaper's writers in Israel that don't understand anything in the Judaism. The quotes of the rabbi that were written in the article are proving that the people who wrote the article are'nt religious. He is writing up there that somebody just wanted to create a bad name to the rabbi. He writes that there isn't a grain of truth in few quotes. He continues to justify the rabbi with his Kashrut ideaology.He finishes and says that it's respective that in a so famous website like wikipedia people can write everything like a gossip newspaper espacially when people who are'nt religous write's it. I hope this translation will satisfy you. Talsardar 07:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks much for the translation, Talsardar.

Zadil- It's really quite simple; if the stories are false and so easily disproved, all that needs to be done is to refute them. We can then change the stories and gloss them as we have others on the page, saying, "Yosef was accused of X by Y, but the explanation was actually Z." However, this can only be done when there is actually an explanation that we can write about, such as saying "this quote is from Ovadiah and is talking about Esau's children" or something. But we can't just say things like "didn't happen" and delete the whole thing, particularly when there's been significant press about an incident (or when it creates ripples in the Jewish community, either secular or religious, as in the case of the Rav's alleged Ashkenazim comment, which earned him a harsh response from the hardline mafdal Arutz Sheva).

This is all the more relevant to a public personality like Rav Yosef because part of his notoriety (particularly in non-Jewish audiences) comes from his controversial statements. People hear about something some Rabbi said and want to find out if it's true and the details of the incident, etc. At least if Wikipedia has some information about these things people can get accurate information about what he said, when and in what context, and separate his real views from things falsely attributed to him, or to misinterpretations. However none of that can happen if we have no information about such things here. It's like trying to censor the Internet so that one gets no information about Hitler or the Nazis- if someone can't find it in one place, they'll go somewhere else, and "learn" God knows what. At least here we can hold people to some sort of standards regarding sources and set some quality for the information given. Shalom, ShalomShlomo 08:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Well put, ShalomShlomo! Rather than trying to ignore negative information we need to set it in context and explain it. That is true encyclopedic work. --Eliyahu S ^Talk 06:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Rav Ovadia Yosef: Hardal or not?

I already foresee a big discussion starting about this, due to his importance. I say that he is not. As a side note and full OR: it seems that the Shas and Lubavitch attitudes towards the State are completely identical. Both seem to support a "new kind of Zionism" which includes replacing this state with a Torah-based state, which will seek to have a "greater Israel" - but, emphasizing, that this state is not the means through which that goal will be achieved. Thus, both Shas and Lubavitch strongly support the state and oppose land withdrawals - but do not say any prayers for the state.

Praying for the state?

Initially, he ruled that one should say the tefilah for the medinah. However, soon after, he reversed this ruling. My understanding, based on personal knowledge from friends who are Shasnikim, is that no follower of Rav Yosef says any tefilah for the medinah.

Land withdrawals

Shas supports land-for-peace arrangements. But only when there is an agreement. Not unilateral, such as last year's disengagement. See http://meria.idc.ac.il/news/2006/06April10news.html "As a non-Zionist force, Shas does not rule out the possibility of territorial concessions." (=scientific article) I propose that there should perhaps be a new article specifically on the issue of Sephardic Haredim. --Daniel575 | (talk) 19:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I think he's not at all. Shas in its entirety isn't. Hardal doesn't mean zionist Haredi, it means haredim involved in the same aspect of religious zionism, i.e right wing map, or even more extreme. Mordechai Eliyahu is the best example to Hardal. Amoruso 22:32, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I most certainly agree. He doesn't say any prayers for the state and he agrees to land-for-peace arrangements. Hardalim would not consider either of those things (well, some of the extreme-right ones do refuse to pray for the state now - but that has wholly different reasons). However, I am sure some right-wing R-Z will show up here and claim that the Satmar Rebbe was Hardal, let alone they will claim that about Rav Yosef. So I figured I might as well bring up the issue myself. --Daniel575 | (talk) 22:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Exactly... but I don't think Shas is ANTI zionist though since they're so active in politics and everything. that's why I think hardal doesn't deal with zionism that much but more about right wing map zionism. Amoruso 22:53, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. See my above comparison of Lubavitch and Shas. They seem to have very identical views. I think Rav Shapiro does also qualify as Hardal. Most, if not all of the "Sanhedrin" (see Modern attempts to revive the Sanhedrin) also qualifies as Hardal. Rav Eliyahu's shul (oops, I mean, beit knesset) is only 300 meters away from my home. I can say that 90% there wear a knitted kippah, colored clothing, and no jacket and hat. He himself does. --Daniel575 | (talk) 22:59, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Rav Ovadia is definitely haredi, not hardal. We tend to associate haredi only with streimel wearing ashkenazim, but white-shirted, black pants sepharadim do not serve in the army, and do not have tv's.--Shuki 23:15, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

As for land withdrawals, the famous 'land for safety' ruling by Rav Ovadia, it was unique to its time and has since been retracted by him as irrelevant. --Shuki 23:17, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, because there is no partner for bilateral agreements. He would only agree if there was a viable plan for it, with a certain guarantee that it would work. That is absolutely not the case in the current situation. --Daniel575 | (talk) 02:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

What is your basis for saying that he would consider peace "agreements"? I had understood that he changed his mind and has ruled out any "peace" deals in principle. Yehoishophot Oliver 15:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no comparison between Shas and Chabad. Shas betrayed the Jewish people by voting for Oslo, enabling it to pass, and for various other atrocities. They were willing to enter Olmert's mass expulsion coalition.

The Rebbe holds, based on clear sources in Halacha, that we cannot surrender land to non-Jews under any circumstances, both because it endangers Jews and because of the prohibition of surrendering Land in Eretz Yisroel. Obviously, since Jews should follow Torah, the Rebbe holds that the state should be run according to Torah. As for "greater Israel": If we can find a legitimate way of gaining control of more land in Eretz Yisroel, then we should, both because that involves liberating Jewish land, and because the more land we have as a buffer zone, the safer we are. Don't give an inch; every slight concession will be viewed as weakness and increase their desire to pressure and murder Jews G-d forbid. That's the Rebbe's view, light years away from Shas'. Yehoishophot Oliver 15:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[[Media:Example.ogg]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.229.237.36 (talk) 10:45, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

What happened to the biography?

I downgraded the ratings because this is the most lopsided article I've yet to see on Wikipedia. It seems to just love sinking its teeth into every juicy, controversial quote that Rabbi Yosef ever made, and not saying much of anything about his Torah scholarship or why he is considered THE halakhic authority for Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews the world over. Can some of this rabbi-baiting be taken out or moved to a separate article? Yoninah (talk) 21:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't agree with you that the "rabbi-baiting" stuff should me moved elsewhere. These controversies are intrinsic to Rabbi Yossef's biography. But I do agree that much more weight should be given in this article to his huge outstanding decades-old dedication to Torah, his hatmada (perseverance), his phenomenal memory, the admiration of MANY great Jewish leaders (Ashkenazim and Sefardim) toward him even at a very young age, etc. etc.--Deep Guy (talk) 15:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Not a fan of Obama, or of the United States

What do you make of this? [2] [3] Stonemason89 (talk) 03:32, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Incomplete Ovadia Yosef quote

The complete quote should be added to the article: "All these evil people should perish from this world ... God should strike them with a plague, them and these Palestinians," [4] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:35, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the type of length of quotes which can be inserted. Chesdovi (talk) 17:59, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Written as advertisement for Ovadia Yosef

There is glaring POV the introductory section of this article. So the POV tag was applied. It should be noted prominently in intro section Yosef's status as 'shas party spiritual leader' and specifically his controversial 'death to Palestinians' 'show no mercy' statements. See here [5] and here [6] for a start.Haberstr (talk) 16:01, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

The article already mentions these controversies explicitly under the section "Controversial remarks regarding Arabs and Palestinians". By the way he said that his sermon was misquoted, and clarified that he was referring to annihilation of Arab terrorists and not to all Arab people, so this entire controversy apparently was blown out of proportion by the media. As an encyclopedia we should not give undue weight to media controversies since this is not at all reflective of his career or opinions. In fact according to the article "Yosef has long been a distinguished rabbinical authority advocating peace negotiations in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and has done so since the late 1980s." Marokwitz (talk) 10:33, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

The only reason he is in the international news is because of his 'death to Palestinians' and similar statements. That should be reflected in the lead paragraph or should at least be the primary topic of the second sentence. It strains credulity to think this was a matter of misinterpretation, it was not an isolated event, and such strong pro-Israel publications, people and entities as the Jerusalem Post, Martin Peretz, the ADL, and the U.S. Dept. of State have condemned his remarks (I believe they would've given him the benefit of the doubt, but they still condemned his remarks).Haberstr (talk) 04:27, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's the Jerusalem Post: "While outlining customs during Rosh Hashana dinner – such as dipping an apple in honey – to petition God for a sweet, successful new year, the nonagenarian halachic authority added a personal prayer: 'May our enemies and hate-mongers vanish, Abu Mazen [PA President Mahmoud Abbas] and all those evildoers be lost from the world, may God smite them with the plague, them and the Palestinians, evildoers and Israel-haters.'" Any reasonable person should have a hard time believing the Jerusalem Post bungled the translation, and and should have a hard time believing the rabbi was really speaking about terrorists (rather than, say, Abu Mazen, who he explicitly names).Haberstr (talk) 04:27, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Apparently it was indeed a mistranslation, BBC translated the sermon as referring to "Palestinians who persecute Israel". Marokwitz (talk) 09:06, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

However the translation is nuanced, the remarks in any of their varying forms were virtually universally condemned.Haberstr (talk) 15:23, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

So? It's already detailed in the article. This is not a reason to detail this controversy in the lead. The lead should summarize the most important aspects of this person's career. For a person highly active since 1924, giving undue importance to this controversy which is entirely based on dubious quotations of a single sentence, and clearly according to him does not represent his views, is clear case of WP:RECENTISM. I have no objection to having a sentence saying that he made controversial remarks during his career, but emphasizing media controversies and gossip rather than more serious parts of his career only because they are recent is non encyclopedic. By the way, on a personal note I have no special sympathy for Yosef and reject his views on almost every topic. However I believe that in an encyclopedia we need to accurately emphasize the most important aspects his career and properly recognize controversies that the press is blowing out of proportion in order to sell more newspapers. Marokwitz (talk) 16:10, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Yosef: Gentiles exist only to serve Jews

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=191782 Is there any truth in the above article? Can it be included in the criticism section? Simanos (talk) 13:40, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh wait it's already mentioned: In a sermon in October 2010, Yosef stated that "The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews". He argued that gentiles served a divine purpose: "Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created."

I still think a better quote is: “Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” [he said in his weekly Saturday night sermon on the laws regarding the actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on Shabbat.] Or add both Simanos (talk) 13:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Haaretz's US correspondent reports on the ADL's condemnation of Yosef's remarks in this article.     ←   ZScarpia   20:33, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

BBC - Rabbi calls for annihilation of Arabs, 10 April 2001: The spiritual leader of Israel's ultra-orthodox Shas party, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, has provoked outrage with a sermon calling for the annihilation of Arabs."It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable," he was quoted as saying in a sermon delivered on Monday to mark the Jewish festival of Passover.     ←   ZScarpia   05:51, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

MOS:BIO#Opening_paragraph -- Place of Birth

Yosef's place of birth has been deleted from the Lead section using MOS:BIO#Opening_paragraph and MOS:Dates and Numbers as an argument: Places of birth do not belong in the lifespan brackets per MOS:BIO#Opening_paragraph. I think that the argument is invalid. Nothing in the rules prescribes that the place of birth cannot be mentioned in the date brackets or in the Lead. The MOS:Dates and Numbers is concerned only with how birth and death dates should appear, not with legislating about what information can appear. Under Context, MOS:BIO#Opening_paragraph says that, in most modern-day cases, specifying the location, nationality, or ethnicity of the subject will mean listing the country of which the person is a citizen or national. Note that it says most, not all. Presumably, most people are nationals of the country where they were born, so mentioning the place of birth is superfluous. Since the Manual of Style does go on to say, birth and death places should be mentioned in the body if known, and in the lead if they are relevant to the person's notability, you could argue that Yosef's place of birth shouldn't be mentioned in the Lead because it has nothing to do with his notabilitiy, but, presumably, other editors could use the counter-argument that Yosef's status as an immigrant is important enough to keep it there. I suspect that you'll find that the articles on many notable people who have immigrated to the U.S., say, will mention in the Lead that they are immigrants.     ←   ZScarpia   09:39, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't have really any problem mentioning his place of birth in the lead (although I don't particularly find much value in doing so), but I don't see why it's being mentioned in the lifespan brackets instead of as part of the prose. It used to be the case that the MOS had prescriptions against it at WP:DATE, but those were removed over a year ago. Based on the discussion, my understanding is that it was not removed based on consensus against it, but on the fact that it shouldn't be a part of WP:DATE. WP:MOSBIO, however, still links to the place where it used to be, and none of the examples include a POB or POD within the brackets. It may be a discussion worth bringing up on the talk page to clarify/create consensus, however, unless you know of somewhere where this has already been discussed? Canadian Paul 06:39, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I've moved mention of Yosef's place of birth into the prose.     ←   ZScarpia   14:11, 20 November 2010 (UTC)